PeacefulViolence Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) As an MMO vet, a long time vet, im talking NWNO back in 1991 as well as played Meridian 59 and the Realm kind of vet. I dont compare this game to MMORPGs because it IS NOT AN MMORPG. This is a single player game with online capability. It does not matter if you HAVE to be online to play it, you have to be online to play the new settlers game, that doesnt make it an MMO...it does not matter if there are a lot of people playing it, quake had a million people playing it online, it wasnt an MMO. To call it an MMORPG is a slap in the face to MMORPGs. Its pretending to be one. Its a good game, great story, decent gameplay...it is not an MMORPG. ive seen as many people together in one spot in online shooters as I do in this game and I sure as hell do not call them MMORPGs. This game is trying to change the meaning of what an MMORPG is, it fails to do that in my book...it DOES change what a single player RPG is, by bringing it closer to what MMORPGs are. No, I dont care if you disagree, this is my opinion. Take off the blinders and deal with it, I said it was a good game while stating it isnt an MMO....omg the world is going to end. For the most part this is correct, however this game did not do anything to bring single player games closer to MMORPG'S it didn't evolve single player games, in a sense it made them worse, all those voiced side quests are a disgrace, and the main storylines are nothing special, they are good but that's where it ends. Keep single player and MMORPG separate please. Edited February 12, 2012 by PeacefulViolence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Really??? Sooo where is this line drawn that distinguishes a casual? I am just curious... Like.. Can I get my "Hardcore Gamer" title if I play 20 hours a week? or do I have to maybe get in a good 30 or 40 hours to be hard core?? Or is casual just logging in and enjoying the gaem regardless of how I play?? I think the only real Hardcore Gamers are the ones who do it for a living ... You think?? Like maybe the gold farmers who play several accounts at a time for hours a day... The ones who hack your account for the virtual money to turn into real money... the ones who use exploits and hacks and stolen credit cards to start those accounts.... You insinuate that the person who has a job, a family and other things going on, but likes to play eight or 10 hours a week is bad and should not waste your time by even subscribing. You really need some perspective.... In todays dictionary a Casual is someone who thinks they should be able to do anything that someone gets to do in a game just because they play the game also. Hardcore is someone who wants to earn what he gets and welcomes a challenge that he may not complete. Casual and Hardcore no longer have anything to do with the amount of time you play. Also I never said that someone who has a job or wife or only plays 5 hours a week was bad. You on the other hand want to say that I do so that others will look and see that I am the bad one and only care about myself when the facts are that you are the one. You dont care about the players with jobs or with kids or that can only play 5 hours a day. You will use them as pawns so you can get more stuff for yourself but you don not care about anyone in this game but yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreossk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet You forgot broken Ilum and an unusual amount of bugs for a game with such a large budget. I forgot a lot of things but as you can see here, some people don't even understand the things in the current list or they bring up arguments that were refuted years ago or they simply are too egocentric and think that since they don't like something, it shouldn't be in the game. Edited February 12, 2012 by Dreossk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Have you ever seen some of the designs people did to the houses? So were artwork and some were museums. I remember one that had all but I believe 3 weapons that were ever in the game. My own house was how you can take something plain and change it into something that isnt and orignial It gave life to the game, made it feel like it wasnt just placed to take up space. It gave you a reason to explore and visit new areas. But no in this game its a one way rollercoaster with no twists or turns, just a straight line to the end. I can't see player dollhouses appealing to a mainstream audience, sorry. And you saying "this game is a one-way rollercoaster" has built-in the assumption that that's a bad thing. Last I checked, rollercoasters are pretty fun for quite a number of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEnvoy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Not being one for story in a mmo (click, click, just give me the quest already), I will have to say that the class quests in this game has me hooked! As an alt-aholic this gives me giddy waves of joy!! Once I hit lvl cap and can't find anything to do, well start an alt and watch his story unfold... I like it. And i have to ask... are we really playing the same game? I leveled my main character to 50, and then i started some alts.... and seriously the content is 95% the same again: same quests, same dialogs, etc. Even if you go opposite faction quests have a striking similarity. "Oh, great jedi sage... go there and get the codes to disarm the bomb." Wait, wait... i just did that on my Sith Assasin! O_o If you enjoy doing the same quests over and over kudos to you. You got the perfect game for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordgubben Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My biggest knock is the game is too easy and forgiving. +1 5chars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I can't see player dollhouses appealing to a mainstream audience, sorry. Since when does everything have to appeal to everyine in an MMO. Thats what single player games are made for. And you saying "this game is a one-way rollercoaster" has built-in the assumption that that's a bad thing. In a MMO yes it is a bad thing Last I checked, rollercoasters are pretty fun for quite a number of people. Again you are saying you dont want things because they are not for you and nothing can be in this game if you dont like it. Thats the casual mentality of only caring about yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoteknate Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet You realize the game was released like 5 minutes ago right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You realize the game was released like 5 minutes ago right? it's been "in development" for seven years seven years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I can't see player dollhouses appealing to a mainstream audience, sorry. And you saying "this game is a one-way rollercoaster" has built-in the assumption that that's a bad thing. Last I checked, rollercoasters are pretty fun for quite a number of people. Sadly, your scope of MMOs seems as limited as todays "AAA developers". Thats ok. all we need is more tokens! Edited February 12, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You realize the game was released like 5 minutes ago right? Dude wants to swim. Wants to swim NOW. On Tattooine. He wants to swim right up to the door to his house! So he can change the doorknob on his house at end-game because there's nothing to do at end-game and he can't even swim to his house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Dude wants to swim. Wants to swim NOW. On Tattooine. He wants to swim right up to the door to his house! So he can change the doorknob on his house at end-game because there's nothing to do at end-game and he can't even swim to his house! Some people just refuse to see the truth, Bioware messed up with this game, even if it is successful that doesn't mean it's a great game, will it be a great game one day? Possibly, but at the moment it's pretty bad, there are cheap F2P MMO's out there like Perfect World that have more features than this game currently does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoteknate Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Dude wants to swim. Wants to swim NOW. On Tattooine. He wants to swim right up to the door to his house! So he can change the doorknob on his house at end-game because there's nothing to do at end-game and he can't even swim to his house! It cracks me up that people think a game that was just released should be totally perffect with like end game out the wazoo. I don't care if they started development in the year 2000. It was just released. All that matters now is that it is brand new. The developers need to iron out the kinks and add new content going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfab Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) WoW did it because all the casuals cried foul play and unfair treatment. If they would have just told then to just suck it up and play the part of the game designed for you then it would have been just fine. Dont blame a company (WoW) for doing something that another company (SWTOR) is doing the exact same thing. The best thing for SWTOR to do is tell all the "casuals" to either play the game the way we design it or go play WoW. Grow some balls and use them. You give in to them once and they will just step all over you while destroying your game but they dont care because they can just move onto another one. What is your definition of casual? I'm curious. *edit* I fail at reading the whole thread before replying. Saw your response on the prior page. Edited February 12, 2012 by Kfab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It isn’t even playable on the flagship location: ilum…. the average player gets 4fps. 4 F P S. How can you possibly defend this game? A majority of people don't care about Ilum, that's how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Some people just refuse to see the truth, Bioware messed up with this game, even if it is successful that doesn't mean it's a great game, will it be a great game one day? Possibly, but at the moment it's pretty bad, there are cheap F2P MMO's out there like Perfect World that have more features than this game currently does. It's bad because we can't swim? Like I'm running around Quesh today. And I see all these toxic pools. And I'm bummed as heck because I can't swim in them! Doorknobs on my dollhouse at end-game, swimming, night-time ... these are quality of life problems. If that's what tops peoples' complaint lists ... that means the game's fine. As with most QoL issues, the devs will get to them. But those things tend to populate the BOTTOM of to-do lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) A majority of people don't care about Ilum, that's how. Sounds like a development issue... as a pvper, i don't are about it either, its terrlible. Imagine a person who only casually pvps Edited February 12, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragamer Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Well... I don't know what qualifies as a "Vet" but I know how MMOs were before WoW and I was at WoW launch. What I like about SWOTR: - Quest system. Not just single player quest, the multiplayer dialog system, coupled with playing with ppl with radically different roleplaying styles rocks the world. - Launch Stability & Fantastic Effort at Server Balance. Problably because the younger players haven't experienced some really attrocious game launches, really bad queues, absurdly asymetrical faction imbalances or simply chose to ignore how "that other game" was during the 1st year of life (Yes I was there at Shouthshore "PvP"... So seeing ppl complaining about 4fps, well)... But BW, and in particular their pre launch Guild Center, at least for me, has set in stone a good mechanism to deal with population saturation and server balance. I even aplaud their "strong arm" policy when having to deal with "********es" national communities that decided to "seize" by force some servers bypassing the effort BW put into organizing the playerbase (And I'm in a server with 50m queues at prime time back... But I know who were the real responsibles of them, and I repeat, I applaud the will to break apart those "pseudo communities" organized out of the official channels that end sabotaging the game experience for the users unaware that their server was targeted by them). - Class System. Classes are easy to configure, but ALL classes penalize the mindless button smashers. This is one of those games were you actually have to pay attention to your energy/focus/force bar and think on it. They also did a very good job so most classes have a random factor affecting their action bar regen, which force ppl to keep relaying on thinking, instead of macroing. - Smooth Transition between Phases. I really love the potential of the phase system we have here on SWTOR... It shines on a couple of storylines (don't want to spoil) at triggering unexpected situations and it really have a lot of potential to work on. - Looks star wars, sounds star wars, feels star wars. My expectatives were high and, as a SW fan myself, I'm glad that my trust on the creators of KOTOR haven't been betrayed as some other recent IP "flagships" that attempted the jump to MMO format to just capsize in the 1st month after launch. Most the iconic details are there and the hand of Lucasart is clearly visible on how carefull they have been on respectic those same icons. - Starship Minigame. I like that it made it into the game but... I'm also expecting it to grow up at full speed... I'm old enough to have enjoyed X-Wing & Co so I think I don't need to add anything else on what I'm expecting . What I don't like: - Branching Decrease. Hard to explain into a short paragraph so I will go with an example... Compare Esseless at 10, Hammer Station and even Athis with ANY other Flashpoint... What you miss? Branching on Bosses and Crafting Skill shortcuts. I'm worried that this 2 features of PvE content has dissapeared completely at high levels... We have enough mindless linear dungeons on the MMO world. Seems that suddenly BW has lost faith on how powerfull the multiplayer rolls can be... They seem to have forgotten that with branching connected to multiplayer convo rolls you can actually see the world from other person pov because he roleplays in a different way... And that's unique to this MMO. - PvP appealing to PvP grinders. Another subject too long to explain, but BW Devs has swallowed the poisoned pill that Blizzard created with WoW, and lured into this game a kind of PvPer that is not interested into fighting other players... It's just interested in collecting the gear he needs to fight other players. I profoundly dislike the chain reaction of having this kind of players mixed into a PvE + PvP game. The road starts at X-server WZ/BG (to help ppl trace what happened on "the other game") and ends with all the classes been the same pitted against streamlined content that is played the same way with just art been changed, once in a while. I repeat is too long to explain in detail how this chain is built... But seems BW is about to take the 1st step on that path without using a Community expert to analyze how this kind of decissions affected the evolution in the dominant population in past MMOs. - High-end Itemization colliding with crafting. I like the crafting system... Until the last point that carries you from 399 to 400. At that moment you realize that the high-end itemization (which crafting is part of) was rushed badly. Seems that BW wasn't aware about how incredibly difficult is to fix anything like this ONCE the initial batch of players has got used to the mechanisms to gear up they find when they are about to reach L50. The general impression I got is that the crafting team & the high-end itemization team weren't not talking to each other at all... With dramatic results as to have professions with 2 of the 3 main lines of production made obsolete by daily rewards that take like 1h to get. I hope you don't get the wrong impression because of the last paragraphs... My "Vet" friends and me are having a blast here... But I have been seeing some "Red Flags" that keep me wondering on what we will have ahead and for how long I will be enjoying the game. Edited February 12, 2012 by ragamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Sounds like a development issue... as a pvper, i don't are about it either, its terrlible. Imagine a person who only casually pvps Let me rephrase. A majority don't PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ousooner Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Story wise I think it rocks, could have used more custom ui stuff in at launch but no biggie. Endgame is about where I expected it to be. PVP gearing was to random to start but they have fixed that since launch. Overall I would say it's a solid foundation, I think should have had a little more thought out Ilum, but other than that, it's only going to get better. I would give it a solid B+ (A- if quality of life improvements had been in at launch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJMTL Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 No guild structure, poor pvp infrastructure, mediocre input responsiveness... I'm only here until Planetside 2 launches. This game is NOT for PvPers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Here's how I'd like TOR to lean: Breathtaking world filled for explorers: I'd like to feel like the world is living, time and seasons are passing. Walk around at night seeing different NPC/Mobs than during the day. So dark on some planets that I need IR or night vision goggles to be able to see. I'd like to dive into a water pond to discover an underground river filled with crystals lighting nicely the surroundings with colored shadows. All this leading to a very old temple. I look forward being able to jetpack/force/jump/grappling hook/climb to difficult to reach places. I imagine myself jumping down from insane heights to timely land with a jet pack or with a parachute. I'd appreciate if the holocrons were really well disposed in the world being detectable with either force powers or high tech scans and not rotting in the open. I wish the artefacts were not put on the side of a road but in old constructions or remote locations. Great character customization: I wish we could choose how our characters look like without being restricted by gear stats nor "iconic" look. Starting with body option, I can't wait for the day I'll be able to change my haircut or the makeup of my female characters daily, add/erase or dye tattoos, add or remove piercings, add new scars or get them surgically removed. I also look forward being able to make my companions truly unique starting with a personal nickname then with more cosmetic features. At a point I hope we'll be able to dye our gear so I can end as a pink Sith if so is my wish. I'd like the shoulder pads and cloaks to have separate toggles so I can choose whether I want to display them or not and why not let's have the same for hoods. I wish we will be able to change our whole equipped look with presets. Plenty of "fluffy" activities: Hopefully killing stuff will become only "one" of the various activities we can do in TOR: starting with multiplayer minigames Pazaak, Sabbac, Pod/Swoop Racing. Continuing with furnishing our space ships or even planetary apartments. Organizing marriages, or scavenger hunts. Space the next frontier: Someday I'd like to wake up in my ship being intercepted by the local space police while err... transferring some goods for various people buying time before being boarded, so my friends can jump in and help me get out of this mess in an epic multiplayer space and free roaming space battle... maybe to end with a very high bounty over my head, that I could, (probably) get rid of with an insane fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogro Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Wow people just love to complain. Only a handful of you posted anything positive and just focused on the negative. Granted the complaints were valid, but as a previous poster stated, its not even two months old. What did we expect? I've always loved Bioware games obviously because of the plot based games it produces and SWTOR delivered big time from that standpoint. I'll be taking a small break in March when Mass Effect 3 comes out, but I love Star Wars too much to stop playing this game for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depredator Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I have played quite a few MMO's over the years and I just wanted to throw my opinion out there and discuss any agreements or disagreements about swtor. Not being one for story in a mmo (click, click, just give me the quest already), I will have to say that the class quests in this game has me hooked! As an alt-aholic this gives me giddy waves of joy!! Once I hit lvl cap and can't find anything to do, well start an alt and watch his story unfold... I like it. This game has the best (imo) story mode of any mmo (and a few single player games) that I have played. I have noticed a trend in MMO's lately that didn't start with this game, but is certainly prevalent. Solo-ability to cap and as quick as possible. At the rate i'm going I will probably hit my cap before I get charged for my first month. This is a double edged sword for me. Sure I like that I don't HAVE to group to level up, and with this type of system the grind is almost eleminated. But for a subscription based service, I don't know if I will spend the wow like amount of time at the endgame, grinding out the same raids, pvp, or dailies for new gear and such. One of my favorite mmo's is EQ2 (and please this is an opinion, so lets not make this a discussion on how much SOE sucks), and, to me, the journey is as fun as the endgame. Subscribing to that game wasn't a bother to me, because I felt like I was getting the most time out of my money. It would take months for even some hardcore players to get to cap (I am talking the early days, takes a lot less time now). I like the crafting system. I have played everything from active crafting (eq2) where you actually have to pay attention to what your doing, and find creative ways not to fall asleep at the keyboard, passive crafting (aion was good for this) where you just load up on mats and let your character craft while you do the laundry. There are more games I have played, but those seem like the two extreams (and dont even talk to me about vanguard lol). This system seems to have the nice balance of getting stuff done crafting wise, while your character can still do stuff on his own... To me that strikes a good balance. Thats all I have now, but I am still just a few days in the game, what else do the Vets think? If you disagree thats fine, but keep the flames at a minimum. These are just some opinions I have developed so far. Well, I do like the crafting system. It was very well done, imo. The cut-scene/storyline questing experience is absolutely incredible; however, I will admit that there are times where I want to click through the dialogue. Usually, that type of feeling comes after having been logged in for far too long in one sitting, lol. The class quests are very engaging, I must say. The instances that I've experienced are interesting. I think that there needs to be some refinement because there is something, I don't know, nagging at my brain when I run them. I don't have any huge complaints, though. While I was initially thrilled about having a mini-game of space combat, I think that I don't enjoy it so much. It was cool the first couple of times, but after that the idea of having a timer on every single space mission turns me off. The rails mini-game is an interesting idea, but I recognize that it doesn't have staying power...at least not for me personally. BW really needs to create more of a sandbox feel for their space ship activity. It doesn'te have to be a true sandbox; it just has to feel like one. This is an mmo, so I expect to be able to have more free interaction/choices when it comes to space. Hopefully, they will add this type of feature in a future expansion. My biggest gripe about this game at the moment is that my toon automatically spins to attack the nearest target when I activate an ability. That can be a bit disorienting since I think that I'm facing one direction, and when I go to engage a different mob, I end up running off in a completely different direction. That's not such a huge problem to have, honestly. If this is my biggest complaint, then SWTOR is doing just fine. Overall, I think it's a great game, and I believe that future patches and expansions will make it even better. So, I'm it it for the long haul. EDIT: Ha! Forgot to mention companions. The way that BW implemented companions is sheer genius. Initially I was annoyed by my Consular's first companions, but he has grown on me to the point that I favor him above the rest. The scorekeeper's herald must watch out for those who are seeking more points, after all. I would be remiss if I didn't mention Vette. It's terribly funny that I find myself clicking on her just to hear her say something. For the first time in my mmo history, I find myself actually caring about my toons and their associates. Job well done, BW! Edited February 12, 2012 by Depredator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Well, I do like the crafting system. It was very well done, imo. The cut-scene/storyline questing experience is absolutely incredible; however, I will admit that there are times where I want to click through the dialogue. Usually, that type of feeling comes after having been logged in for far too long in one sitting, lol. The class quests are very engaging, I must say. The instances that I've experienced are interesting. I think that there needs to be some refinement because there is something, I don't know, nagging at my brain when I run them. I don't have any huge complaints, though. While I was initially thrilled about having a mini-game of space combat, I think that I don't enjoy it so much. It was cool the first couple of times, but after that the idea of having a timer on every single space mission turns me off. The rails mini-game is an interesting idea, but I recognize that it doesn't have staying power...at least not for me personally. BW really needs to create more of a sandbox feel for their space ship activity. It doesn'te have to be a true sandbox; it just has to feel like one. This is an mmo, so I expect to be able to have more free interaction/choices when it comes to space. Hopefully, they will add this type of feature in a future expansion. My biggest gripe about this game at the moment is that my toon automatically spins to attack the nearest target when I activate an ability. That can be a bit disorienting since I think that I'm facing one direction, and when I go to engage a different mob, I end up running off in a completely different direction. That's not such a huge problem to have, honestly. If this is my biggest complaint, then SWTOR is doing just fine. Overall, I think it's a great game, and I believe that future patches and expansions will make it even better. So, I'm it it for the long haul. i'll give you the analogy i've given everyone else. I already have a ferarri that i can pay 15 bucks a month to drive. 2 of them, really. i'm expected to pay 15 bucks a month to drive this ford pinto in the hopes that they will someday turn it into a ferrari? granted. i'm really tired of driving the ferarris. but i'm not about to downgrade to a ford pinto. BW, fix your game. i'll be back in 6 months to check your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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