People leaving wz is now out of control.

[Nangasaur]

I wouldn't mind a deserter debuff, when I would not get kicked out so often in WZ that have already started (because the game starts the 30 seconds timer while I still see a loading screen).

A minor problem I'm sure they are working on resolving.

 

Look, we all know this issue will get addressed. It's just a matter of time, and the hammer will come down swiftly when it happens. Bioware just has to tweak a lot of things to make it fair.

 

(Sorry, folks, disconnects won't get exceptions to the deserter rule, no matter how good you think programmers are, it cannot be programmed around to determine if someone lost connection because their ISP dropped them, their power flickered out and computer rebooted, or the turd just popped their CAT5 cable out of the wall for 10 seconds.)

[zanthal]

You've deliberately reversed cause and effect and you know it.

 

Rated play will probably solve this, if they ever actually implement it.

 

But rated play or not, "bad" players or not, I think a nice long boring two hour wait if you "Leave Warzone" is perfect.

[Nangasaur]

And how long before the AFK vote kick is exploited?

 

I ran was thrown in with a pre-made but who couldn't be bothered to play recently. I kept telling them to play for the objective but they just sat at the node we had and couldn't be bothered and were only interested in arguing with me.

 

Supposing we introduce an AFK vote kick, whose to say I couldn't have been kicked seeing as they would have already had 4 votes, and only need one more!

 

AFK vote kick could be abused and is a terrible, terrible idea. It could lead to people being kicked for not being geared etc. Bad idea.

It never did in previous games. I guess after we got rid of the immature /nerdragequitters, everyone suddenly became adults.

[Spartanik]

If the pvp in this game was fun, you think:

 

A: More people would leave

B: Less people would leave

 

Adding a punitive measure won't make it any more fun.

 

Wrong it should be death penaltie sor some sort of punishement. If you dont find it fun why log in into a warzone in the first place?!

allthough i think nothing can be done while they dont fix plaeyrs being kicked because they enter when a macth had already started.

[TheRFC]

A minor problem I'm sure they are working on resolving.

 

Look, we all know this issue will get addressed. It's just a matter of time, and the hammer will come down swiftly when it happens. Bioware just has to tweak a lot of things to make it fair.

 

(Sorry, folks, disconnects won't get exceptions to the deserter rule, no matter how good you think programmers are, it cannot be programmed around to determine if someone lost connection because their ISP dropped them, their power flickered out and computer rebooted, or the turd just popped their CAT5 cable out of the wall for 10 seconds.)

 

 

Mate, CHILL OUT ...

 

Firstly - how many patches have they 'fixed' the Wins not counting issue in now ... ? Minor issue? Ha! Not for BW.

 

Disconnects won't get exceptions? And what if it's BW's fault? Despite having a strong connection I'm constantly kicked from my server.

 

I'll tell you how many times I'll have a deserter debuff. Once. Because the first time I'm punished for BW's inability to fix issues will be the last time I play WZs.

 

I like this game but it leaves a LOT to be desired and even for me I'm finding it hard to justify paying for what is effectively a game still in its Beta stage.

 

I'm sorry but the 3rd Reich is OVER, and you slapping on the jack-boots is NOT going to help the overall game. I really don't CARE about if you win another match due to people quitting all the time, but if you start punishing people the PvP part will die.

 

It may not in other games but this is a StarWars title, a lot of non-MMOers will have picked it up just because they enjoy the SWs genre. You start pounding at them and introducing draconian measures their fun will die ---> they unsub and stop paying ---> the game suffers massively.

 

And all when you can simply avoid BOTH afkers AND quitters by rewarding people for playing and NOT for being around for a win (where you can contribute nothing to).

[Caeliux]

You place a debuff on me if I leave then i will simply park myself in a corner and not help whichever way matters not to me as I am NOT going to try when noone else is or noone else knows how to pvp.

 

Self entitlement check,

 

Selfish poor sportsmanship check,

 

Reason game needs a deserter buff check.

[TheRFC]

It never did in previous games. I guess after we got rid of the immature /nerdragequitters, everyone suddenly became adults.

 

 

A game is meant to be FUN. I like this game (for the most part) but if your idea of fun is playing the same 3 broken WZs over and over w/ very limited end-game PvP options then I'm glad we don't share the same definition.

 

Your exact mentality is what game developers deliberately steered away from because it doesn't make money, it doesn't sell. The 'golden days' of gaming are over. Game devs will ALWAYS cater to the casual crowd now. COD has set the shining example of how to make money and whatever genre you're in, this is what devs will be basing their ethos on. To them, making money > than you're personal W/L record.

 

Punish the casuals and the game will die, especially considering the competition they have coming up from GW2, real or imagined they aren't going to start punishing people either way. Anyone would realise that it'd be suicide for a game that is already suffering a lot and gaining a reputation for being a bit of a joke.

[Taerrik]

1, desert debuff needed

2, votekick needed (dont complain about it getting abused, it doesnt happen often)

3, cant join in a warzone thats more than a minute started

 

 

Please

[TheRFC]

Rated play will probably solve this, if they ever actually implement it.

 

But rated play or not, "bad" players or not, I think a nice long boring two hour wait if you "Leave Warzone" is perfect.

 

 

 

Watch everyone have a boring 2 hour wait as people quit from this draconian measure.

 

'I think' - that's the problem. The devs don't CARE what you think. They care what will make them money. Punishing people for leaving is going to end up punishing people unintentionally for the game's glitches.

 

If this happens, RIP SWTOR.

[Scrilian]

3, cant join in a warzone thats more than a minute started

 

 

Please

 

and if someone leaves - its like autolose?

[Vydor_HC]

Nangasaur, you're right, when "that other game" implemented debuffs for leaving it did change over night. Instead of quitters we got AFKers. When they implemented an idle kick, those AFKers did the bare minimum to stay active. Both things lock up the queue for that fight, and there is no chance of maybe getting someone that will actually play, which you would have if quitters could just leave.

 

Yup, this is exactly what happens. If people do not wanna be there, they will not turn into good players, instead they will do the opposite and make things worse. There isn't a need to punish players anyways, when a few tweaks of the system can encourage players to stay in warzones instead of leaving.

[TheRFC]

1, desert debuff needed

2, votekick needed (dont complain about it getting abused, it doesnt happen often)

3, cant join in a warzone thats more than a minute started

 

 

Please

 

To address points 1-3.

 

Devs - 'How much money will we MAKE from introducing a deserter debuff?' ZERO.

 

- 'How much money could we LOSE?' How long is a piece of string ... ?

 

 

Do they care about your W/L? No. Your gaming ego doesn't matter, the casuals' money does.

 

End of.

[TheRFC]

Yup, this is exactly what happens. If people do not wanna be there, they will not turn into good players, instead they will do the opposite and make things worse. There isn't a need to punish players anyways, when a few tweaks of the system can encourage players to stay in warzones instead of leaving.

 

 

Exactly!

 

People really don't understand that this game is plummeting at the moment because it lacks depth in many, many departments. If they start punishing people then it's BW writing their own suicide note in terms of SWTOR.

[TheRFC]

and if someone leaves - its like autolose?

 

I wouldn't bother trying with these people.

 

Punishing players > Game's overall well-being, in their eyes.

[SirRobin]

Valor rank 54. Expertise 601. Missing one piece of Champion gear - my belt. 11.51% damage reduction. 11.51% damage boost. 20500 hit points self-buffed. 6666 armor rating. 40% shield chance. 44% shield absorption.

 

Well that sheds a lot of light on where your "viewpoint" is coming from. As part of the six hundred club you have the most to lose by not being able to valor farm in warzones and having to regularly face opfor of equal ability.

 

There's not a single new idea or concept or scenario that any of you quitters are presenting that hasn't already presented itself in prior MMOs with PVP problems, including problems of quitters. That problem has always been solved by punishing the quitters. Every. Single. Game. Queue-based warzones that suffered from quitter-itis were quickly cured by punishing quitters. It's a tried, tested, and working fix. Every. Single. Game. Period.

 

As a day one WoW'ser it doesn't surprise me that I recall things "differently" than you. Implementing "punishments" was part of an entire range of changes and "fixes." So, no, the problem was not solved by just punishing the quitters. The problem was reduced by improving the system.

 

There's nothing for me to be unwilling to accept.

 

Well since you were not the one who said it I don't see how it would directly apply to you.

 

Not nearly as bad as before the pandemic of quitters began. It grew and grew until it was so widely out of control, something had to be done. I was there, I witnessed it. And as soon as the punishment went in, it was a night and day difference. Of course there will always be quitters. Quitters gonna quit, just like haters gonna hate. But once that reward for quitting goes away, the number voluntary quitters drops dramatically. It will never go away entirely, but the dramatic improvement was well received and a much-needed improvement.

 

What reward? Not getting valor farmed?

 

Doesn't fix quitters when the reward for quitting still exists. The reward for quitting MUST be dealt with harshly, and removed entirely.

 

Again, the ability to leave a lopsided warzone isn't a "reward." You've wasted the load time and pre-start frame. You are wasting progression time by being valor farmed instead. Then you are stuck with the load time to get back to wherever you were when the queue popped. I would hardly count wasting five ten fifteen minutes, or more, of game time a "reward."

 

Oh please, you really think that quitters who don't like a challenge such as attempting to make a comeback in a match that is already down by 1 point, won't just want to quit when they see that they are matched up against a better geared, better played, and much more experienced team? Boy are you wrong. Or incredibly naive. Or both. Either way, a matchmaking system has been tried before as a first-ditch effort. It made quitting worse, not better.

 

So you are branding it with "quitters who don't like a challenge?" How about "paying customers" who don't like "wasting their time," instead? Nor do I, or even most, quit if they are down by one point. I already showed you the real scenarios I've encountered. Like a stealther waiting for their "run and hide" ability to be off cooldown before trying to get a kill, you are looking at it from the better geared, both better played and experienced are in doubt, end of the spectrum.

 

So you are attempting to claim a matchmaking system that includes the games "pvp" stat in its calculations would make the game worse. Does that mean that you would start quitting?

 

Again, the reward for quitting MUST be dealt with harshly, and removed entirely, before any symptom of the problem can be corrected.

 

Since the problem is the lopsided match itself, how can addressing that first not help with "paying" customers not wanting to waste progression time?

 

I experience perhaps 1 problem such as these listed above in about every 20 matches. That's pretty good, considering the game has been out for less than 2 months, has far worse bugs to deal with, a terribly unoptimized client, and various other problems. Bioware will deal with those problems as quickly as they can. But refusing to correct your own personal anti-social problems while using Bioware's programming problems as an excuse is just nonsense. The quitter problem is player-created. It's sad that players have no tools to police this type of behavior, and unfortunate that Bioware will have to step in and police it for us or give us the tools to do it ourselves. But mark my words, one of the two will happen. Deserter debuffs, or warzone votekick rules; perhaps both, as both have proven very successful in fixing these player (un)policed problems in prior MMOs.

 

As part of the six hundred club you would think you would be better at baiting than that. I guess not. I still get a couple of CTD's, audio lockup's, nodespeccahes, etc... a night. Its normally not a major issue but it rates higher on my scale of game improvements than helping the six hundred club keep valor farming. Wait, so the lopsided match problem is "not" player created?

 

It was extremely accurate, very simplified, and not hard to answer. You don't have to explain to me or try and rationalize your selfish behavior. We've all heard the same tired excuses in 40+ pages of this thread, in-game general chat, and ops chat from warzones. They're all just selfish excuses, bottom line.

 

No it wasn't. You attempted to force a loaded leading question and I called you on it. As another "paying" customer I don't have to explain. I chose too. Sorry but your bottom line, isn't. You claim you are seeing the same tired excuses and in turn we can see the same tired response from the players who would get the most from forcing other players to stay in warzones they have no chance of winning.

 

edit: I am proud of you, however, for actually answering the perfectly simple, easy, and honest question posed to quitters - even though you tried to way over complicate an extremely simple question.

 

Well your pride, no matter how over inflated it might be, does not concern me. The longevity and health of this game does. Guild Wars 2 doesn't appeal to me, visually, so TOR is the only MMORPG that even vaguely interests me. Creating an environment where paying customers feel the need to do something they don't like repeatedly isn't the brightest idea for a game which has already shown that its not going to become the "king of the hill."

 

Improve the experience through multi-server queuing and a significant matchmaking system first, or all you are going to do is give more people a reason to leave not only the warzones, but also the game.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SirRobin

[Delekii]

Because let's face it, players should be punished for the gear they wear, because who knows that that person has a learning disability or for some Godly reason made it to level 50 without realizing they could put mods in their gear. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense dude.

You want to punish people for what you subjectively believe to be a negative action; people who enter warzones with underleveled or inappropriate gear ruin the game for those doing the right thing REGARDLESS of the reason they do it. People are already punished for doing that by being bad, but the rest of their team should not be.

 

Yep. Punish people who have a sudden, irresistible urge to relieve their bowels; their baby suddenly wakes up from a nap screaming and they need to run and check on them; an unexpected knock on their front door must be answered; or any number of things.

Again, if you don't have the time to commit to a 15 minute game of PvP, don't join. If something comes up, leave and take the punishment. It is not my responsibility to give a damn about your personal life.

 

The only reasonable thing you've said so far. But uh, hate to break it to you, medals and commendations are rewards for participating in the warzone, no matter how you swing it. They are objectives of the warzone. Bioware created this problem, and they've got to fix it. We've already proven in 45 pages that you can't change selfish people unless you remove their reward for being selfish.

Which is exactly what he said? Until you incentivize objective-based winning beyond the daily, PvP won't work.

 

If you're so pro, how about you talk in Ops chat and give people pointers and tips on how to win matches? I can't count how many times I've seen someone do something silly like run around in our own end zone with the ball, and I've had to educate them on just throwing the ball away to get it back to center quickly. They learned, and never did it again. Teach them; most reasonable people will listen. Those who don't, well, they'll probably just end up on the ragequitter list anyways.

If you tell people what to do in ops chat, more often than not you get such winning replies as "ease up", "shut up", or the one that just makes me scratch my head "play for fun, not to win". Most reasonable people may listen, but most people are not reasonable - most people are *********** retarded.

 

Not a bug or exploit. It's very hard to get the jump timing right on it. Consequently, you could always just pull them back after jumping across.

It is an exploit of a bug. You are not meant to be able to reach the second door before the bridge is extended as an attacker, and the fact that you think otherwise somewhat proves how irrational you are.

 

Games will always have bugs and exploits. Let's say Bioware fixes all these, and the following day, a new, previously unknown exploit is discovered. Does Bioware then have to suspend the deserter debuff every time a new exploit is found and abused? Get real, or get lost. Remove the reward for quitting.

There are not always bugs or exploits that are both easily exploited by the wider populace, and game breaking in terms of balance. Until bugs like uneven team numbers or planting before defensible are fixed, quitting is the only sensible recourse.

 

Quitting is only a symptom of "E". I won't count "G", because you can still quit during the initial game start countdown, and most likely won't hurt your team because of it (but it can still happen depending loading times).

 

A and B are not causes of quitters; they're pathetic excuses for quitters. People have real life obligations outside of the game. If that annoys you so terribly, then try being an adult for once and walk a mile in their shoes, then maybe you'll have some sympathy for them. For now, saying quitters have a good excuse to quit because another team mate's child just gashed their head open and is bleeding, is well, repulsive to me and extremely insensitive.

 

C, again is not a valid cause to be a quitter. Earning valor and medals in warzones is part of the objectives of the warzone - win or lose. Why else are they there? LOL.

 

D, also not a valid cause to be a quitter. Quitters who refuse to teach new people strategy and how to gear up their character for PVP are, again, just being self-centered punks. I had absolutely no understanding of the gear purchasing system with the bags and such when I hit 50. I would have been pretty pissed off at my guild if nobody took the time to explain it to me. I would have quit the guild, too, most likely, and become a quitter just like all you quitters. Teach the people how to play, don't harass them for not knowing what to do. And for goodness sake, stop using someone else's lack of knowing the game as a valid excuse for you to be selfish.

All your subjective opinion, as a person who clearly enjoys staying in lopsided games. I am selfish, I will be the first person to admit it. I am also here to tell you that until MOST of the above issues are fixed, no duration of deserter debuff will keep me in a broken PvP game. I play for fun, not because I am masochistic - I have better things to do with my time than getting farmed by an exploiting team, or because my team are doing the chicken dance half naked in the corner.

 

Stop presenting your opinions as anything other than that, especially when you clearly don't speak for the people you seem to think you know.

[revned]

I see people leave all the damn time..mostly games where the other team has a volley of sorcs/sages and commandos/mercs...but hey who am i to judge. I've personally never left a WZ, I figure it's more fun to just watch people repeatedly get destroyed by the same mob of sorcs! And a handful of commendations for the show...Do i participate in getting beat down, lolno...watch from a distance. why put myself through the frustration and feed them kills over and over and over as a marauder.

[Gryphandor]

I just left 2 in a row. Almost had a score in Huttball and some idiot comes out and says he didn't know how to pass the ball. It was a easy score that failed.

 

Then I left a fail Void because I was brought into it already in progress.

 

Oh and going back to the Huttball one I left. Suspected and reported a person for possible hacking. Toon was bouncing all over and immune to damage and knockbacks for a extended period of time. Obviously I left after reporting them. Just how I work.

[Caeliux]

Punishing people for leaving is going to end up punishing people unintentionally for the game's glitches.

 

People are not leaving over glitches, they are leaving because of poor sportsmanship.

 

Game bugs and glitches in a month in a half released game is normal, people that don't think that have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Ask someone like me, that has been doing this since EQ, no mmo game has been perfect in the first few months, some better than others but no perfection by a long shot.

 

No excuses, people need to man up or woman up and play a match without leaving.

 

If they choose to leave then a punishment for leting people pick up their slack needs to happen.

 

What do I mean pick up slack if someone leaves?

 

When someone leaves, someone gets into the match that already started, where the numbers went from 8 vs 8, to 7 vs 8, and the reason a loss happens is because of people quitting over greed and self entitlement.

 

Let me repeat greed and self entitlement, not glitches or bugs.

 

Real talk.

[Delekii]

People are not leaving over glitches, they are leaving because of poor sportsmanship.

 

Game bugs and glitches in a month in a half released game is normal, people that don't think that have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Ask someone like me, that has been doing this since EQ, no mmo game has been perfect in the first few months, some better than others but no perfection by a long shot.

 

No excuses, people need to man up or woman up and play a match without leaving.

 

If they choose to leave then a punishment for leting people pick up their slack needs to happen.

 

What do I mean pick up slack if someone leaves?

 

When someone leaves, someone gets into the match that already started, where the numbers went from 8 vs 8, to 7 vs 8, and the reason a loss happens is because of people quitting over greed and self entitlement.

 

Let me repeat greed and self entitlement, not glitches or bugs.

 

Real talk.

You're wrong. You also don't represent my opinion. Keep talking big, though.

[Caeliux]

You're wrong. You also don't represent my opinion. Keep talking big, though.

 

Weird, I play the same game you do and I could quote a millon quote's of people talking about not a balanced game, to they will not play with noobs.

 

I don't have opinions I have facts, and the fact is alot of these gamers are spoiled egotistical people that want spoon feed perfection.

 

Yep.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Caeliux

[Delekii]

Weird, I play the same game you do and I could quote a millon quote's of people talking about not a balanced game, to they will not play with noobs.

 

I don't have opinions I have facts, and the fact is alot of these gamers are spoiled egotistical people that want spoon feed perfection.

 

Yep.

 

No, we just want to play a balanced PvP game. I have amazing fun in PvP, but only because I cherry pick the games where no-one is exploiting and no-one is retarded. It's great.

[SirRobin]

You're wrong. You also don't represent my opinion. Keep talking big, though.

 

Exactly, ignoring the real problem isn't going to fix it. It just makes it easier to think that punishing players for not wanting to be valor farmed is the best solution. Something that is mostly to the advantage of the ones doing the valor farming in the first place. The best solution is to minimize the chance that players will be put in that situation in the first place with a matchmaker.

 

A matchmaking system that uses a player's level rank and the game's pvp stat, "expertise," to place them in a match with other players of similar level, rank, and "expertise."

Edited February 14, 2012 by SirRobin

[Caeliux]

No, we just want to play a balanced PvP game. I have amazing fun in PvP, but only because I cherry pick the games where no-one is exploiting and no-one is retarded. It's great.

 

So now game isn't balanced weird. So you cherry pick games because the other team plays better I see.

 

I know where this is going, and no I don't agree.

 

The nerf this class and I am unsubing threads are that way ----->

 

I am talking about people leaving Warzones and there is no excuse.

 

Your excuses is why SWTOR needs a deserter buff.

 

Why?

 

Cause it's QQ.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Caeliux

[revned]

Exactly, ignoring the real problem isn't going to fix it. It just makes it easier to think that punishing players for not wanting to be valor farmed is the best solution. Something that is mostly to the advantage of the ones doing the valor farming in the first place. The best solution is to minimize the chance that players will be put in that situation in the first place with a matchmaker.

 

A matchmaking system that uses a player's level rank and the game's pvp stat, "expertise," to place them in a match with other players of similar level, rank, and "expertise."

 

I believe they are implementing this with 1.2