Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[harpuax]

Not at all...cross server lfg is the fix.

 

As another has said this isn't a new issue for mmo's it's just far more glaring with the much larger audience mmo's now enjoy.

 

Thank you for being so open minded. So there is 0 innovation to be had in MMOs now?

[Ituhata]

spamming general chat and pestering people not on the fleet is your idea of socializing?

 

And I have bad news for you if you think that atm any kind of real socializing occurs.

 

Boss strats, loot, bad behavior are the conversation topics and have been before any sort of lfg system.

 

My experience with mmo's from wow's first year, EQ a week from rifts release has not indicated any sort of server community as the counter-argument would have me believe exists and thrives before a lfg system.

 

Besides anything the vast majority of people just arn't that social, people wont strike up conversations at a bus stop.

 

I liked one anti-lfg persons response to that: "No I strike up conversations at a pub" where you or who your talking to has already had there inhibitions watered down and where more social people are far more likely to gather.

 

Spamming is not socializing. It's not effective either. Do you honestly listen to car sales pitches on tv commercials? Buy now , only fifty-nine ninety nine THATS RIGHT THIS WEEKEND ONLY ONLY 5995! ...Why would you listen to people repeatedly spamming in general? Try a different tactic.

 

Boss strats aside, I seem to recall entirely different topics in my groups. But then again, I met awesome people and knew it and made sure I was friends with them. The tossers and tools I let fall by the wayside. We actually had fun in our old groups, a few wipes were worth the lulz of putting misdirect on our favorite elemental shaman after 2 chain lightnings on a trash pull.

 

But you're right: The vast majority of people aren't that social and wouldn't talk to one another at a bus stop. You know why? Because nowadays there really is no such thing as a community. People barely make eye contact let alone smile or wave at one another and really, can you blame them? No one needs anyone anymore. We can all, for the most part, be self sufficient without any help from our neighbors, and that's the point. When you don't need anyone around you for help, you're not playing an mmo.

[darkcerb]

Thank you for being so open minded. So there is 0 innovation to be had in MMOs now?

 

Cross server lfg will solve all the problems with finding groups, if you have a better plan do share.

 

Running around insisting there's a compromise is all well and good but unless you actually have something in mind it's just empty words.

 

And cross server lfg is the innovation, it is efficient and it's certainly better then bioware's current offering and a step above same server system.

[Heretiq]

So we need new ideas. I agree that are just certain situations where you are not going to find a group no matter what they do. But you saying it's impossible to fix?

 

The only thing I could think of would be some sort of grouping algorithm.

 

When you queue up for a flashpoint the tool will try to group you with people from your server. It will try and do that for a specific amount of time (depending on how long other people in your level range or for that specific flashpoint waited for a server-only-group and whether or not the group was eventually formed with people only from your server).

 

After that specific amount of time the tool will try and put a Cross-Server-Group together.

 

This alongside some major server-merging might solve a lot of the problems.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Heretiq

[darkcerb]

But you're right: The vast majority of people aren't that social and wouldn't talk to one another at a bus stop. You know why? Because nowadays there really is no such thing as a community. People barely make eye contact let alone smile or wave at one another and really, can you blame them? No one needs anyone anymore. We can all, for the most part, be self sufficient without any help from our neighbors, and that's the point. When you don't need anyone around you for help, you're not playing an mmo.

 

Maybe it's an age thing, I'm 23 and I don't know what this world is you speak of, my experience in game and life are completly at odds with what you insist is there and will be destroyed with a cross server tool.

[ispanolfw]

Now you claim to know what I want? All I want is an effective LFG system, but I'm certain you already know that.

 

No, it doesnt. Nothing changes the fact that the choice to use the LFG tool or not is in the player's hands. If you hate the LFG system you can not use it, and nothing can ever take that choice away from you. It's not an automatic system (or lack of one) to which there is no alternative, like the one we have now.

 

You're claiming there are strong motivating factors for using an LFG tool once its implemented. That's probably true - but the choice is always made by the player. Not the tech. Not the functionality. Not the game. You.

 

And that's the point you seem to be missing. I've already said that, yes, it would be optional to use. However, being optional does not mean it will NOT affect the people who do not wish to use it. Just like now, shouting in chat to find a group is optional. But if you choose not to do it, you won't be finding groups.

 

So people can throw around that it's "optional" all they want as basis for why it's not going to affect others all they want, but it does affect them. You're only looking at the choice of using it or not, and if that was all it was then it would hold up. But it's not, if they put the tool in and you choose not to use it, your chances of getting groups will plummet due to people taking the path of least resistance. Click a button or do a little conversing to get a group.

[Darkulous]

Cross server lfg will solve all the problems with finding groups, if you have a better plan do share.

 

 

[Grandpa Voice]

 

Listen here you whipper snapper! In my days we didn't have no voice-communication-doohicky. We typed it all out! It builds character! We walked butt-naked in a blizzard to every instance and we LOVED IT! Now get out there and stop whining you sissy!

 

[/Grandpa Voice]

[darkcerb]

So people can throw around that it's "optional" all they want as basis for why it's not going to affect others all they want, but it does affect them. You're only looking at the choice of using it or not, and if that was all it was then it would hold up. But it's not, if they put the tool in and you choose not to use it, your chances of getting groups will plummet due to people taking the path of least resistance. Click a button or do a little conversing to get a group.

 

If you have a way that works now the only way that would be endangered is if others would prefer the tool to your way.

 

When did you get to dictate that we had to play your way or the highway? the lfg tool will always be optional in the sense that you will always be able to continue doing things your way.

 

That is the definition of optional if i've ever read it. That the majority would prefer the tool should end the discussion right there, and I suspect it will in time.

[MalignX]

And that's the point you seem to be missing. I've already said that, yes, it would be optional to use. However, being optional does not mean it will NOT affect the people who do not wish to use it. Just like now, shouting in chat to find a group is optional. But if you choose not to do it, you won't be finding groups.

 

So people can throw around that it's "optional" all they want as basis for why it's not going to affect others all they want, but it does affect them. You're only looking at the choice of using it or not, and if that was all it was then it would hold up. But it's not, if they put the tool in and you choose not to use it, your chances of getting groups will plummet due to people taking the path of least resistance. Click a button or do a little conversing to get a group.

 

 

It is optional. It can't possibly make the current manual grouping any worse than it already is. If you absolutely don't want to use it; join/make a Guild, make friends and bring them into your guild, and then form groups solely from your Guild. Yay Guilds are relevant again. For those people who have zero problems getting groups and running Flash Points, this won't effect you, no matter how much you rage at me that it will.

[Heretiq]

And that's the point you seem to be missing. I've already said that, yes, it would be optional to use. However, being optional does not mean it will NOT affect the people who do not wish to use it. Just like now, shouting in chat to find a group is optional. But if you choose not to do it, you won't be finding groups.

 

So people can throw around that it's "optional" all they want as basis for why it's not going to affect others all they want, but it does affect them. You're only looking at the choice of using it or not, and if that was all it was then it would hold up. But it's not, if they put the tool in and you choose not to use it, your chances of getting groups will plummet due to people taking the path of least resistance. Click a button or do a little conversing to get a group.

 

I personally never said that, although it's optional, it's never going to affect anyone who doesn't want to use it. I'm aware that it will have an impact on your way of grouping.

 

But why is that exactly?

 

Because people like convenient and time-saving tools (computers, calculators, telephones, cars etc.) so they will use them. Can you blame them for it?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Heretiq

[Ituhata]

Maybe it's an age thing, I'm 23 and I don't know what this world is you speak of, my experience in game and life are completly at odds with what you insist is there and will be destroyed with a cross server tool.

 

Probably is. I'm not much older than you (I'm 32) but I remember times when I knew my neighbors, I knew the local shop owners, and people were a heck of alot more friendly than they are nowadays. I don't know you personally so I couldn't say for sure but I'm willing to bet if you aren't living with your parents you have no idea who your neighbors are.

 

Likewise, I remember when I knew a good chunk of the playerbase on one server. Horde and Alliance. We had rivalries, whether it was guild pve or just pvp in general, we had the local tosspot who severely need a good old fashioned beatdown, we had great people who strived to make our server a welcome home to new players, we had deep thinkers or at least people who pawned themselves off as such and we had jokers.

 

We had that for two reasons, because we had a place where we could communicate and we had to rely on each other to accomplish big things. I'll admit server specific forums would go along way to fostering a better local community but adding cross server lfg will kill it. Go look at Ravenholdt. Browsing those forums used to be awesome, now you'll be hard pressed to find the top 10 posts updated within a day. I visit a forum with 10 users that posts more than that.

[ispanolfw]

Maybe it's an age thing, I'm 23 and I don't know what this world is you speak of, my experience in game and life are completly at odds with what you insist is there and will be destroyed with a cross server tool.

 

It's more of a choice thing actually. I know many things exists outside of my personal views and experiences. I don't let myself, blind myself, per say. I'm only 7 years older than you too. For example, my normal personality is quite anti-social when you look at it. I prefer people to not speak to me unless they're asking a genuine question, small talk gets ignored.

 

But I also know, and see, that there ARE things that will get lost if the tool comes in. I've been playing MMOs for hmm, roughly 8 years i'd guess? I've seen what LFD among other things did to at least two different servers in WoW. I've seen socialization drop on those servers. Does it mean it will be non existent? Of course not, but the problem the Pro people have, at least most of them in this thread, is they don't agree that will happen so it's wrong. It does happen. I've also stated it will impact the people who do not like such tools, that also gets pushed to the side as not valid.

 

The thing is, all of these arguments are valid, and pushing them off to the side is not helping your argument. You have accept the good with the bad regardless of if you agree with them or not. For example, I disagree that finding a group needs to be as easy as clicking a button or two. But I can understand some people disagree with that, for various reasons. I feel that there should be a little "journey" in getting a group and heading off to do the content. But I also understand some people don't like that and do not want that.

 

But in the end, if you just keep pushing the arguments against away because you disagree, you're basically just saying "we're right, you're wrong, deal with it" And without facts, that's simply not true.

[Kourage]

When you get your stupid LFD tool I don't want to hear any crying that there's not enough tanks or healers and asking for rewards for tanks or healers to queue. All it does is make tanks and healers not want to form a group the normal way because they want the extra reward. Edited February 14, 2012 by Kourage

[ispanolfw]

If you have a way that works now the only way that would be endangered is if others would prefer the tool to your way.

 

When did you get to dictate that we had to play your way or the highway? the lfg tool will always be optional in the sense that you will always be able to continue doing things your way.

 

That is the definition of optional if i've ever read it. That the majority would prefer the tool should end the discussion right there, and I suspect it will in time.

 

And that's the problem, i'm NOT telling you that you have to do it the way it is. I don't care if they add LFD or not. I'm sick of people literally trashing other people's arguments on the sole basis they do not agree.

 

And still, you don't seem to get it. Optional is the big thing people use to validate that it won't affect people. It will, period. Optional is not the catch all people believe it to be, just like the famous phrase "It's Just a Game"

[ispanolfw]

It is optional. It can't possibly make the current manual grouping any worse than it already is. If you absolutely don't want to use it; join/make a Guild, make friends and bring them into your guild, and then form groups solely from your Guild. Yay Guilds are relevant again. For those people who have zero problems getting groups and running Flash Points, this won't effect you, no matter how much you rage at me that it will.

 

Yes it can. Because a certain group of players already want it and will use it if implemented it. That automatically removes those people from the possible people to find for a group by looking the "normal" way. So it DOES affect them, and isn't difficult to see how. And that doesn't even bring in the explanation of "Path of least resistance" for the neutrals which has already been brought up multiple times.

[ispanolfw]

I personally never said that, although it's optional, it's never going to affect anyone who doesn't want to use it. I'm aware that it will have an impact on your way of grouping.

 

But why is that exactly?

 

Because people like convenient and time-saving tools (computers, calculators, telephones, cars etc.) so they will use them. Can you blame them for it?

 

Bolded the important part. You contradicted yourself there. I'm not blaming people for wanting to save time, i'm blaming people for ignore real cons because they don't agree with them.

 

Oh, and it's not "my" way of grouping. I've already stated I don't care if it comes or not.

 

Oh, you never said that, glad I wasn't quoting you?

Edited February 14, 2012 by ispanolfw

[darkcerb]

I

But in the end, if you just keep pushing the arguments against away because you disagree, you're basically just saying "we're right, you're wrong, deal with it" And without facts, that's simply not true.

 

That's just my point though, the fact is cross server will solve the problem of finding groups that people are having.

 

And your opinion is that it will destroy this "community" that I just don't see.

 

How can something that doesn't exist be endangered? A server community as I'm being shown it simply isn't there, where I know you can find a group of like minded individuals to run groups with and talk as much or as little as you like is a guild the finding of which will not be hampered by the tool.

[Amiracle]

This game has no cross server LFG like WoW.

 

The people who don't like that system joined this knowing that and that was one of the things we liked.

 

The people who cannot function without a cross server lfg tool joined this game knowing there wasn't one.

 

If it mattered so much to you then why did you pick a game that didn't have one.

 

The people who don't like cross server lfg play a game without one.

 

Why are you trying to impose one on us?

[darkcerb]

Yes it can. Because a certain group of players already want it and will use it if implemented it. That automatically removes those people from the possible people to find for a group by looking the "normal" way. So it DOES affect them, and isn't difficult to see how. And that doesn't even bring in the explanation of "Path of least resistance" for the neutrals which has already been brought up multiple times.

 

Then they would prefer to use the tool, yes that's our point.

Edited February 14, 2012 by darkcerb

[ispanolfw]

That's just my point though, the fact is cross server will solve the problem of finding groups that people are having.

 

And your opinion is that it will destroy this "community" that I just don't see.

 

How can something that doesn't exist be endangered? A server community as I'm being shown it simply isn't there, where I know you can find a group of like minded individuals to run groups with and talk as much or as little as you like is a guild the finding of which will not be hampered by the tool.

 

This just shows you're not reading my posts and replying just to disagree. I never said a single thing about destroying community.

[MalignX]

Yes it can. Because a certain group of players already want it and will use it if implemented it. That automatically removes those people from the possible people to find for a group by looking the "normal" way. So it DOES affect them, and isn't difficult to see how. And that doesn't even bring in the explanation of "Path of least resistance" for the neutrals which has already been brought up multiple times.

 

Then join a Guild.

[ispanolfw]

Then they would prefer to use the tool, yes that's our point.

 

Still ignoring the very real possible cons aren't you? Those in the middle don't "prefer" to use the tool, they use it ONLY because it's easier. Hell they may even prefer NOT to use it, but they know they can't get groups much anymore if they don't. Do you not see this as being forced in some way? You say optional, and at the basic level, yes it is. But once you decide you want to go find a group, a problem arises. You can ask around, only to find people who don't want to do more than click a button and then not find a group. So if you want a group, you almost have to use it.

 

There's a reason it's called the path of least resistance.

[darkcerb]

This game has no cross server LFG like WoW.

 

The people who don't like that system joined this knowing that and that was one of the things we liked.

 

The people who cannot function without a cross server lfg tool joined this game knowing there wasn't one.

 

If it mattered so much to you then why did you pick a game that didn't have one.

 

The people who don't like cross server lfg play a game without one.

 

Why are you trying to impose one on us?

 

I play SWTOR because I want to play SWTOR end of story. I didn't come here from any phobia of wow nor is that what SWTOR was advertised as or any mmo will ever be advetised as.

 

Why are trying to force us to play the way you want?, and a lfg system is not a hard locked feature of any mmo, it is the way mmo's work now. Given that a same server tool is already in the works and that the dev's have said they're interested in the idea of a cross server tool they agree.

[ispanolfw]

Then join a Guild.

 

Oh here we go, this one again. I'm in a guild, I don't care one way or the other if Cross Server LFG comes. Still doesn't change the very real cons that people are just pushing to the side.

[Amiracle]

That's just my point though, the fact is cross server will solve the problem of finding groups that people are having.

 

And your opinion is that it will destroy this "community" that I just don't see.

 

How can something that doesn't exist be endangered? A server community as I'm being shown it simply isn't there, where I know you can find a group of like minded individuals to run groups with and talk as much or as little as you like is a guild the finding of which will not be hampered by the tool.

 

How can something that doesn't exist for me be endangered?

 

Because you refuse to acknowledge there is a community because it lets you justify sitting there wallowing in your own ignorance. Simple.

 

You choose to not see it so it doesn't exist for you.