Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[MajikMyst]

Your also dealing with millions of people in wow.

 

More people = more bad apples its a simple concept.

 

I have ran into plenty have dbags on my server. I even had one ninja loot then start cussing at the group for saying something... follow by " go ahead and kick me good luck finishing your FP noobs"

 

Oh yes LFD tool would totally make people *****s.... no it wouldn't they are already there and they already do things like that.

 

But the difference is we are more affected by it he was right if we kicked him replacing him in a half done FP wasn't going to happen. It took me 2 hours to get the group together and it was a complete waste.

 

Now had there been a LFD tool I could have just vote kicked him out and qued us another person in to finish out the run.

 

When putting groups together takes longer then the actual content theres a problem.

 

Whne someone can be a dbag becuase they know you wont kick because you cant get anyone else to come you know theres a problem.

 

LFD will not make the community any different. Its a completely factless opinion based on your wow experience which btw was not my experience I made more friends using wows LFD then I did any other way.

 

Your missing the point.. Nobody is claiming that an LFG tool will make the community different.. But it strips group leader's abilities to try and filter out as many bad apples as they can..

 

Nobody claimed it would make the community smarter or better or different.. But how exactly can you ask someone their raid experience or what stradegy they have used on a specific boss with the LFG system?? BEFORE they are invited to group... How exactly do you inspect their gear to see if they have the gear for the run you are about to do?? BEFORE they are invited to group?? An LFG system doesn't allow either of those.. So while an LFG system doesn't change the number of bad apples out there.. It does prevent me from trying to filter them out and not deal with them..

[Arkerus]

We need one. End of story.

 

I'm "ok" with not having one for now but as the game gets older it becomes more necessary. I don't want to spam chat all day just to get through a FP. That has never worked for me, nor does messaging people randomly. That's just not cool.

[gtmach]

No actually your not.. Do gear checks.. Not to mention something you can't do with an LFG system.. You can talk to them.. Talking in an MMO.. Amazing..

 

So no.. If you are picking up random people, then the person that is putting the group together is at fault.. I never picked up random people..

 

Those are two things that you can't do with an LFG system.. Which is why I didn't use the one in WOW and if implemted here.. I won't use it here.. My game time isn't going to be spent dealing with ninja looters from another server or carrying someone so they can get free loots off of my skill and labor.. They want a spot in my run, they are going to earn it..

 

But you'd have a choice. That's the main highlight with the system. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.

 

I think Blizzard's mistake was providing extra incentives for using the tool like badges or points or whatever. But if Bioware doesn't give extra incentive, just has the tool there for whoever wants to use it, I don't see the problem.

 

Plus I remember in WoW, there were still people looking for groups within trade channel when the instances was especially hard or they wanted to do a timed run and they wanted well-geared/skilled people to do it with.

 

They founded their own group when they wanted to and used the LFD tool at other times.

[Barracudastr]

There isn't? you can't ask your friends or guild members? Heck I just hold my push to talk button and say "hey who wants to run something?" and within seconds I have a group. Just because there are more efficient methods you are not willing to try doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

That has nothing to do with LFD though.

 

When LFD comes you can still do that.

 

LFD will just be another option.

 

For those say not in a guild.

 

Or playing at non peak hours where theres only like 5 people on in your guild.... or when your friends aren't playing or when they are busy doing their own thing.

 

For some reason people use arguements that suggest you have a wealth of guildmates and friends that will just drop what they are doing and run what you want to run when you want to run it.

[MajikMyst]

Ummm right.

 

LFM Hammerstation.....

 

xxxx whispers: invite

 

*invites*

 

Hey

Sup

 

LFM Hammerstation......

 

repeat process for 2 hours till group is full.

 

Okay we are there everyone ready? Yup im good.

 

*kill stuff*

 

Okay everyone know boss right?

 

Yup x3

 

Kill boss

 

*take loots*

 

Ummmm.....

 

 

Right!!!!

 

Judging alll

 

By your

 

Method

 

of creating

 

Groups!!!

 

very smart!!

 

Not everyone creates a group in that manner.. If that is how you create groups.. Then that is your problem..

 

Have a nice day..

[Varghjerta]

Ummm right.

 

LFM Hammerstation.....

 

xxxx whispers: invite

 

*invites*

 

Hey

Sup

 

LFM Hammerstation......

 

repeat process for 2 hours till group is full.

 

Okay we are there everyone ready? Yup im good.

 

*kill stuff*

 

Okay everyone know boss right?

 

Yup x3

 

Kill boss

 

*take loots*

 

Good run thanks

bye

bye

cya

 

You tell me how that would be any different using LFD lmao.

 

Because even when I do try to strike up a convo in a FP 99% of the time no one even types back.

 

People are there to run the content get their exp and loot and move on its that simple.

 

And you have no proof of anything that says otherwise.

 

And if a player is an idiot?

[EvilTrollGuy]

Ummm right.

 

LFM Hammerstation.....

 

xxxx whispers: invite

 

*invites*

 

Hey

Sup

 

LFM Hammerstation......

 

repeat process for 2 hours till group is full.

 

Okay we are there everyone ready? Yup im good.

 

*kill stuff*

 

Okay everyone know boss right?

 

Yup x3

 

Kill boss

 

*take loots*

 

Good run thanks

bye

bye

cya

 

You tell me how that would be any different using LFD lmao.

 

Because even when I do try to strike up a convo in a FP 99% of the time no one even types back.

 

People are there to run the content get their exp and loot and move on its that simple.

 

And you have no proof of anything that says otherwise.

 

You've clearly mistunderstood the concept of FPs. Next time remember your picnic basket.

 

lol..

[stem]

That still happens....

 

Your still picking random people up when you sit in fleet spamming for a group.

 

I am not sure why you think the quality of random people would be any different lol.

 

If you're not sure it's because you've played little else than WoW.

 

It comes down to accountability in server only groups.

 

When players are clearly not group players (ie. “Suck it TANK..... I'm gods gift to DPS..... L2Tank noob”... etc.....etc....) you have the ability to boot them and set them on ignore to never play with them again.

 

That's accountability and doesn’t allow for a degeneration of the player base.

 

With x-server grouping, there’s no accountability as it doesn’t matter if you’re the biggest a-hole the games ever spawned. There's a pool of players from other servers that won’t dry up regardless of how uncivil they act.

[Tiars]

I have to agree with the OP that there is no reason to not have this tool.

 

But I want to also comment on some of the various responses that people posted. The first being that since WoW has it it must be bad. First off in WoW the tool, now that it has had time to exist, has not harmed guilds. If anything it has made them stronger. When Blizzard added the feature to WoW they actually had to bribe people to use the tool. They also made changes when using it to make it harder for people to use it to do random thievery. As people have pointed out, you run all the same risks using general chat to PuG Flashpoints. I will point out that Blizzard did wait to implement it until they had a mechanism to make it work across small groups of servers to deal with different server populations. I prefer in WoW like I do in SW:TOR to run instances with the guild, but if I am on when most are offline and I want to run instances, I like the tool in WoW.

 

I will somewhat agree with those that say that I would want to see more added to the game ahead of this. But these are things like get rid of the Donkey Kong/Super Mario brothers aspects of getting to Datacrons, more Flashpoints, more Operations, Chapter 4. Right now things like this are more important to me than this.

[LordPie]

Here's a legitimate reason: I'm a fanboi with my head in the sand and I'm terrified of change because I came from SWG.

 

Despite taking that out of context, that unfairly characterizes us. I played SWG for ~7.5 years and I'm a huge advocate for an LFD tool, especially seeing how effectively it worked in other populated MMOs.

 

On another note, I completely agree that this should be in a coming update, sitting on the fleet spamming to find a group for a flashpoint is equally stupid and pointless. It wouldn't ruin any community as long as people are smart enough to bring friends into the que like in the current warzone system.

[MajikMyst]

But you'd have a choice. That's the main highlight with the system. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.

 

I think Blizzard's mistake was providing extra incentives for using the tool like badges or points or whatever. But if Bioware doesn't give extra incentive, just has the tool there for whoever wants to use it, I don't see the problem.

 

Plus I remember in WoW, there were still people looking for groups within trade channel when the instances was especially hard or they wanted to do a timed run and they wanted well-geared/skilled people to do it with.

 

They founded their own group when they wanted to and used the LFD tool at other times.

 

So why have it?? Seems to me you just talked your way out of it.. It serves no purpose.. The only benifit I see is if you are unfortunate enough to be on a low population server.. But then many people are against inter server LFG systems because they lack accountability..

 

The issue you here was to come up with a legitimate reason not to have it.. We have done that.. There are also reasons to have it.. So it ends up being players choice..

 

/thread

[Barracudastr]

Your missing the point.. Nobody is claiming that an LFG tool will make the community different.. But it strips group leader's abilities to try and filter out as many bad apples as they can..

 

Nobody claimed it would make the community smarter or better or different.. But how exactly can you ask someone their raid experience or what stradegy they have used on a specific boss with the LFG system?? BEFORE they are invited to group... How exactly do you inspect their gear to see if they have the gear for the run you are about to do?? BEFORE they are invited to group?? An LFG system doesn't allow either of those.. So while an LFG system doesn't change the number of bad apples out there.. It does prevent me from trying to filter them out and not deal with them..

 

How much filtering do people do when spamming for random people in fleet?

 

I dont do any.... hell I dont even know who the bad players are for the most part because

 

A. I have only done a handful of FP's due to it taking to damn long and sitting in fleet is a waste of my play time.

 

B. You dont see many people saying omg dont group with xxx person and even if I did see that how do I know that the person actually did anything wrong and someone isn't just trying to be a dbag and give them a bad name etc etc.

 

Do you sit there and interview each person that whispers you for an invite?

 

Probably not.

 

I think its safe to say that most people doing FP's see a whisper asking for an invite and invite the person right then and there with nothing said at all in chat.

 

I think its safe to say that the majority of players would love a LFD tool and that the minority that doesn't I probably wouldn't want to group with anyways because they would be the type of people that if you dont do what they say when they say it your done and they will spam how bad you are to everyone else even if you didn't do anything wrong thats what I think.

 

Also im not talking about raids, I would probably have a set group for that in which we know each other and communicate in vent.

 

We are not talking about an ops tool we are talking about FP's that you pretty much face roll through while watching tv.

 

Be realistic please.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Barracudastr

[harpuax]

That has nothing to do with LFD though.

 

When LFD comes you can still do that.

 

LFD will just be another option.

 

For those say not in a guild.

 

Or playing at non peak hours where theres only like 5 people on in your guild.... or when your friends aren't playing or when they are busy doing their own thing.

 

For some reason people use arguements that suggest you have a wealth of guildmates and friends that will just drop what they are doing and run what you want to run when you want to run it.

 

Please read what we were discussing. I did not say this was a better or worse than a LFD tool. I was just correcting the other poster that there ARE more efficient methods available than spamming chat other than a LFD tool. There are more than 2 ways to find a group.

Edited February 13, 2012 by harpuax

[ferroz]

Nobody claimed it would make the community smarter or better or different.. But how exactly can you ask someone their raid experience or what stradegy they have used on a specific boss with the LFG system??

So... if you're running a flashpoint, which is group content... why do you need to know their raid experience?

 

 

BEFORE they are invited to group... How exactly do you inspect their gear to see if they have the gear for the run you are about to do?? BEFORE they are invited to group??

You do it after the invite but before you start doing anything. Functionally equivalent.

 

alternatively, don't use the lfd tool to form your groups if you want that fine of a grain control over who you group with.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

The issue you here was to come up with a legitimate reason not to have it.. We have done that..

I haven't seen any of those.

 

There's a bunch of purely opinion based reasons. And there's some purely subjective reasons. And there's some reasons based on supposition and fear. But no legitimate reasons, at least that I've seen.

 

Can you reiterate any of the real, factual, objective reasons for me?

[MajikMyst]

How much filtering do people do when spamming for random people in fleet?.

 

I don't know.. Why don't you ask them.. But to assume that no filtering takes place is just plain wrong.. A lot depends on what the group is for.. If you are running Essels for social farming.. You are probably not going to care to much about who is with you.. Hard mode operation.. You are going to take only the best. You check gear, ask them a question or two.. Whatever is needed to give that person an invite..

 

If you don't filter people that is your own business.. But don't assume that other people do not..

 

Thanks..

[Barracudastr]

Please read what we were discussing. I did not say this was a better or worse than a LFD tool. I was just correcting the other poster that there ARE more efficient methods available than spamming chat other than a LFD tool. There are more than 2 ways to find a group.

 

I agree theres more ways, I played Aion for 2 years I never once had a problem getting groups it was faster then wow with LFD actually and they have maybe 100k subs lol.

 

All we had was a Global chat channel. It worked perfect.

[PeacefulViolence]

If anything is destroying this community, it would be this argument for a god damn LFG Tool, whoever is against this will not win, so give up, we will get our tool.

[MajikMyst]

So... if you're running a flashpoint, which is group content... why do you need to know their raid experience?

 

Ever play WOW?? It would be obvious that since there are no raids in this game that my comment was in reference to WOW..

 

Does that answer your question??

 

Flash points have boss fights and operations have boss fights.. Understand now??

[Barracudastr]

I don't know.. Why don't you ask them.. But to assume that no filtering takes place is just plain wrong.. A lot depends on what the group is for.. If you are running Essels for social farming.. You are probably not going to care to much about who is with you.. Hard mode operation.. You are going to take only the best. You check gear, ask them a question or two.. Whatever is needed to give that person an invite..

 

If you don't filter people that is your own business.. But don't assume that other people do not..

 

Thanks..

 

Dont relate that to being social though, because its not lol.

 

What level are you?

You heals/dps/tank?

 

Thats not being social, thats no different then you queing for a LFD because it checks all those questions anyways.....

 

The only difference is you manually ask the question lol.

 

And I dont think anyone asks anything other then the above when doing FP's.

 

And people doing OPs dont run pugs.

[gtmach]

So why have it?? Seems to me you just talked your way out of it.. It serves no purpose.. The only benifit I see is if you are unfortunate enough to be on a low population server.. But then many people are against inter server LFG systems because they lack accountability..

 

The issue you here was to come up with a legitimate reason not to have it.. We have done that.. There are also reasons to have it.. So it ends up being players choice..

 

/thread

 

The LFD tool provides the quickest way to get a group to complete content with in my experience. If you don't like it then you can still do it the traditional way with people you like.

 

The purpose of LFD is convenience.

[ferroz]

If you're not sure it's because you've played little else than WoW.

Eh, the main mmorpg that I've played was EQ. I played wow maybe 1/2 to 1/3 as long.

 

It comes down to accountability in server only groups.

This doesn't actually exist; the scum players still get groups.

 

whether you're talking single or xserver, about all you can do is put people on ignore after you or someone you know gets bitten.

 

When players are clearly not group players (ie. “Suck it TANK..... I'm gods gift to DPS..... L2Tank noob”... etc.....etc....) you have the ability to boot them and set them on ignore to never play with them again.

This is true both single and xserver.

[ferroz]

Ever play WOW??

Yes

It would be obvious that since there are no raids in this game

Yes there are; they're called Ops I think

that my comment was in reference to WOW..

And?

 

Does that answer your question??

No.

 

Flash points have boss fights and operations have boss fights.. Understand now??

No... why does raid experience matter for doing group content?

[MajikMyst]

I haven't seen any of those.

 

That you would accept as legitimate.. We get that.. All you care is about what you want and other people feelings and opinions don't matter.. We get that..

 

Thanks.. Have a nice day..

[Barracudastr]

Ever play WOW?? It would be obvious that since there are no raids in this game that my comment was in reference to WOW..

 

Does that answer your question??

 

Flash points have boss fights and operations have boss fights.. Understand now??

 

Stop relating it to wow.

 

This isn't wow.

 

Our LFD tool ( yes its coming regardless of this thread and arguments) will not be wow's LFD tool. It will be swtors LFD tool and how it functions is unknown.

 

You have no clue about what the tool would be other then something that builds a group from players on different servers other then that you have no knowledge of anything else.

 

Yet you base your arguement off of wow's tool which is for wow.