Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Raansu]

So, you haven't really debunked the arguments; you've just said you disagree with them. Some don't.

 

Personally, I think there's a lot of truth to the argument that LFD systems (at least as implemented in WoW and Rift) do hurt community. Not only do they remove the incentive to socialize by removing the need to have friends in the game for grouping with, but the way groups are slammed together and people are teleported right in front of the first fight removed any need to communicate at all. As a result, people generally don't. Those of us who've played in games with that type of LFD system know that in the majority of cases, you end up with a group that barely says one word to each other. They pop in, grind through their instance, and split up at the end without ever having connected in any way at all.

 

How is this any different from what we currently have? People join the group and while the leader spams LFM the others in the group pretty much just afk/check the gtn/talk to guild. Maybe once in awhile people will chit chat, but seriously, most of the time people just afk till the group is full because they know its going to take an hour to find that last person which is almost always a tank or a healer.

 

Also, I don't want to communicate while doing the content... A few words here and there to joke around is fine, but overall I want to concentrate on completing the content... You should be concentrating on the fights not talking to each other. If you want to chit chat go talk in general chat on the fleet...

 

LFD does not remove the incentive to socialize. The entire concept of "it kills the community" is complete and utter BS. Regardless if there is a LFD feature or not, people will continue to talk in general chat. The difference? There wont be people spamming "LFG/LFM" ever 5 seconds cluttering the chat window and it will allow people to actually go out and quest and do other content instead of being FORCED to sit on the fleet spamming the chat for a group. People who are against a LFD feature are either lying to themselves or simply insane and like sitting around doing nothing apparently.

 

cross-server lfd breeds idiots who can get away with anything

 

intra-server lfd is fine, people are still accountable

 

Jerks will be jerks and whether its same server or cross server you WILL come across them. This is NOT good enough reason to punish everyone else just because a few people have low tolerance for jerks. I'd rather deal with a jerk once in a blue moon then sit in the fleet for hours spamming "LFG" in the chat.

 

Also jerks can easily be dealt with by having a vote to kick feature and having /ignore ruling them out of the match ups when you queue again so that way you never see them again, problem solved.

[face_hindu]

There is no reason you will find "legitimate" enough, and suddenly change your mind, so why even bother creating another thread?

 

I can give you the reason i don't like it, and you can give reasons why you don't like my answers, and guess what? It still won't change my mind.

 

It has perhaps less to do with the tool itself, and more with the type of MMO this becoming, and the direction that the devs are taking it in. Not what i look for in my MMOs, so i will move on.

 

I will keep an eye on it, and if in the future, they perhaps stray from the cookie cutter MMO mold, i'll reconsider my interest in the game.

 

Simple as that for me.

 

 

Harsh as it may seem, I think BioWare would accept losing subs looking for a "hardcore" experience if they could get twice as many "casual" gamers to subscribe.

 

Honestly, there's been times in my run with this game that have almost made me start Wurm Online again. Howver, I really do enjoy Warzones and Flashpoints, and I want to do some Ops eventually. I guess the parts of the game I like most would be the parts that would be more accessible to me with a better LFG system, so I'm looking forward to it.

 

These must be tough times for gamers looking for a hardcore Star Wars experience. It seems like some people are just now finding out that this isn't really that type of MMO.

[Raideag]

make screensho to you with like 130+ pll on fleet and two flagged lfg and one of them myself?

 

Not only that but the who lists only displays 100 records, even if there is 150 or so people on the fleet. So your still not seeing everyone that could possibly have LFG flagged, but I reckon the ones flagged are supposed to show up first. Yet if you have it ordered in a different fashion your still screwed.

[Reevax]

Not only that but the who lists only displays 100 records, even if there is 150 or so people on the fleet. So your still not seeing everyone that could possibly have LFG flagged, but I reckon the ones flagged are supposed to show up first. Yet if you have it ordered in a different fashion your still screwed.

 

I have never seen more than 100 people in the fleet, what its like to be on a server where you can get groups?

[federlinejones]

cross-server lfd breeds idiots who can get away with anything

 

intra-server lfd is fine, people are still accountable

 

 

^^^^^^^^

 

Hit the nail on the head for the main reason as to why cross server LFD should not be implemented. Server wide is a-okay. If server population is an issue Bioware needs to get off their butt's and do mergers. As a player from vanilla wow on up I can say with confidence that as soon as cross server LFD entered the game alot of people's quality of play just went to the crapper which more than likely had a huge hand in the start of have the achievement for said raid or instance or you can't come. "Before you start accusing me of being someone who didn't have the achievements and was butthurt, I'm not as I got to do all content up to CATA launch. Sure you get in a group faster but the returns blow. Like taking the same amount of time to start and finish as you do from when you LFG now cause you get someone that has no clue of whats going on and this is more than likely bound to happen more then a couple of times in a row most of the time.

 

BIOWARE please just merge the low population servers, implement cross server PVP AND NEVER EVER think about going down the dark road of cross server PVE content again.

[Thunderslice]

Yeah I am so sick of the "community" argument. its completed nonsense.

 

The "community" nonsense really only used as a argument on these forums, in the game the only community that exists is with in the guild, random people dont care about another random person unless there is a need. People stuck on this community non sense need to get a real life stop trying to role play or what ever they are doing and let us enjoy the content we pay for. I have never been more annoyed at a group of posters as I am with the community of this game on these forums, I cant stand them, they want swtor to stay stuck in the past, thankfully i dont think the dev care, because these people are the minority the masses want dual spec and a lfg tool. A bunch of x wow players scorned by a game they played for years and are anti wow anything even if it works

[Tic-]

Harsh as it may seem, I think BioWare would accept losing subs looking for a "hardcore" experience if they could get twice as many "casual" gamers to subscribe.

 

Honestly, there's been times in my run with this game that have almost made me start Wurm Online again. Howver, I really do enjoy Warzones and Flashpoints, and I want to do some Ops eventually. I guess the parts of the game I like most would be the parts that would be more accessible to me with a better LFG system, so I'm looking forward to it.

 

These must be tough times for gamers looking for a hardcore Star Wars experience. It seems like some people are just now finding out that this isn't really that type of MMO.

 

I didn't say anything at all about "hardcore".

 

Though an MMO that i might actually have to read at least part of the manual for would be a nice change of pace. Though i guess that could be construde as "hardcore" these days eh?

 

Logging on to AAA MMOs recently is more of challenge of keeping my eyes open than anything the game offers. I've done it 1000s of times before. Slapping a new IP on a new box, hardly makes a new MMO these days.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Tic-

[face_hindu]

I didn't say anything at all about "hardcore".

 

Though an MMO that i might actually have to read at least part of the manual for would be a nice change of pace.

 

Logging on to AAA MMOs these days is more of challenge of keeping my eyes open than anything the game offers. I've done it 1000s of times before. Slapping a new IP on a new box, hardly makes a new MMO these days.

 

Sorry, hardcore wasn't the right word, with all it's varied connotations... "unique" would be a better word, and yeah, besides the IP, there's nothing unique about TOR. Now, if you took this game and re-skinned it to make a Shadowrun MMO, I wouldn't care so much about the repetitiveness and the staleness. An IP can only get you so far. Totally agree. However, I think EA values the IP and its fans over MMO culture.

[Darth_Sinistor]

The "community" nonsense really only used as a argument on these forums, in the game the only community that exists is with in the guild, random people dont care about another random person unless there is a need. People stuck on this community non sense need to get a real life stop trying to role play or what ever they are doing and let us enjoy the content we pay for. I have never been more annoyed at a group of posters as I am with the community of this game on these forums, I cant stand them, they want swtor to stay stuck in the past, thankfully i dont think the dev care, because these people are the minority the masses want dual spec and a lfg tool. A bunch of x wow players scorned by a game they played for years and are anti wow anything even if it works

 

Dude 10k internet points for you. You hit that nail squarely on it's head.

 

The nay-sayers seem to pine for a "Golden Age" of mmos, where (apparently) there was a thing called a "community".

 

Spoiler alert: that was then, this is now and now (ie; the 21st century) people want convenience. I'm willing to bet none of the nay-sayers grow their own vegetables or butcher their own meat. Why? Because it's frankly too damned inconvenient. Join the rest of us in the 21st century and embrace a LFD tool. And if you don't want to use it? News flash: you don't have to.

 

LFD tools are the way it is now. The vast majority of us dont want another job - we want a game.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Sejia
rude

[DarthKhaos]

Not only that but the who lists only displays 100 records, even if there is 150 or so people on the fleet. So your still not seeing everyone that could possibly have LFG flagged, but I reckon the ones flagged are supposed to show up first. Yet if you have it ordered in a different fashion your still screwed.

You DO know that you can see people flagged LFG on other planets? Wait you didn't know? Oh right. Because it's not a fully automated cross server SYSTEM not tool people ignore it. Doesn't mean it's not there. That's the point i'm trying to make.

 

You an see ANYONE that is flagged and what their LFG comment is ANYWHERE in the game. Other planets, Flashpoints, even Warznes. You got no idea how many times I checked when I see someone spamming over and over in General and I have to tell them to check the LFG tool there's a healer or tank over on <insert planet/warzone here> flagged.

 

My point THERE IS ONE. May be crude, can use some design upgrades and not a lot of people use or know bout it but IT IS THERE.

 

 

 

People stuck on this community non sense need to get a real life stop trying to role play

How DARE they try to Role Play in a Role Playing Game. The nerve of them!

Edited February 12, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Senatsu]

Yeah I am so sick of the "community" argument. its completed nonsense.

 

No, it's not nonsense.

 

Right now, tons of people are getting familiar with the game, many people who have never played an MMO before SWTOR. Eventually people will put up PvP movies, boss kill movies etc. THAT is when a community begins to form. People start to hear about this awesome player/guild X on the X server, so they make their own videos. More people PvP and want to raid high-end content because of other players that they see, more players become well known on their servers and it keeps expanding.

 

Servers will get "THE server troll" that always talks in general and trade, servers will get "the seller guy" who floods the GTN with auctions, servers will get "the best PvE guild" that always gets the first boss kills, servers will get "the best PvP" guild that dominates Warzones, servers will get "the PUG guy" that, for some unexplained reason, always has successful PUG raid groups, servers will get "the show off guy" who always stands in the middle of a popular area to flash his full tier XX gear, servers will get the joker, the casino guy, the achievement guy and the list goes on and on and on.

 

Dooming a server's future community before it has even started is stupid and reckless. All of the "The X Guy" people I have posted existed on most of WoW's servers in Vanilla and TBC. They even lived a few months after LFD, but eventually died out because no one could care less, simply due to the horrible side-effects of an LFD/LFR cross-server tool.

 

You can ask anyone who played during those WoW expansions, and they would tell you they had many of "The X Guy", unless you were completely anti-social back then too.

[Thunderslice]

No, it's not nonsense.

 

Right now, tons of people are getting familiar with the game, many people who have never played an MMO before SWTOR. Eventually people will put up PvP movies, boss kill movies etc. THAT is when a community begins to form. People start to hear about this awesome player/guild X on the X server, so they make their own videos. More people PvP and want to raid high-end content because of other players that they see, more players become well known on their servers and it keeps expanding.

 

Servers will get "THE server troll" that always talks in general and trade, servers will get "the seller guy" who floods the GTN with auctions, servers will get "the best PvE guild" that always gets the first boss kills, servers will get "the best PvP" guild that dominates Warzones, servers will get "the PUG guy" that, for some unexplained reason, always has successful PUG raid groups, servers will get "the show off guy" who always stands in the middle of a popular area to flash his full tier XX gear, servers will get the joker, the casino guy, the achievement guy and the list goes on and on and on.

 

Dooming a server's future community before it has even started is stupid and reckless. All of the "The X Guy" people I have posted existed on most of WoW's servers in Vanilla and TBC. They even lived a few months after LFD, but eventually died out because no one could care less, simply due to the horrible side-effects of an LFD/LFR cross-server tool.

 

You can ask anyone who played during those WoW expansions, and they would tell you they had many of "The X Guy", unless you were completely anti-social back then too.

 

 

It is non sense, out side of my guild I dont see a game community and I play on 2 different servers. Its like a myth on these forums. The only argument you guys have for not having standard features.

[face_hindu]

All of the "The X Guy" people I have posted existed on most of WoW's servers in Vanilla and TBC. They even lived a few months after LFD, but eventually died out because no one could care less, simply due to the horrible side-effects of an LFD/LFR cross-server tool.

 

Actually this didn't happen on my server (Lightbringer) - there was still The Bag Guy, The Obama Healthcare Guy, The I'm Going to Block the AH with Fireworks Launchers Guy, and some very successful and well known guilds and players. LFD DID NOT kill these guys, and it DID NOT ruin the community (on Lightbringer). So what you're saying - just isn't true.

[Senatsu]

It is non sense, out side of my guild I dont see a game community and I play on 2 different servers. Its like a myth on these forums. The only argument you guys have for not having standard features.

 

LFD is not a standard feature, and if you would have read my entire post, and understood it, then you wouldn't have posted your first two sentences.

 

Actually this didn't happen on my server (Lightbringer) - there was still The Bag Guy, The Obama Healthcare Guy, The I'm Going to Block the AH with Fireworks Launchers Guy, and some very successful and well known guilds and players. LFD DID NOT kill these guys, and it DID NOT ruin the community (on Lightbringer). So what you're saying - just isn't true.

 

So your experience on 1 server gives you the power to say that it isn't true? Wow you're arrogant. I have played on dozens of servers both US and EU in my WoW career, trust me, I have better experience in this than you do.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Senatsu

[Arnokar]

cross-server lfd breeds idiots who can get away with anything

 

intra-server lfd is fine, people are still accountable

 

I love this answer...like what? Roll need on something you need? Hello they do that here for their companions. Lol.

 

Lfd is awesome. It works for those that need it.

 

If you're all grouped up in an awesome guild with plenty of people to form groups with..simply do not use the lfd...is that such a hard concept?

[Aleeha]

NEWS FLASH LFG/LFR ARE 100% OPTIONAL TOOLS WHICH YOU NEVER, EVER HAVE TO USE EVER. THEY ARE OPTIONAL. JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GAME OR COULD BE THERE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE IT. IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RUDE PEOPLE, NINJA's, IDLERS, or QUITTERS BECAUSE IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU CAN STILL GO ABOUT YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE THE SAME WAY YOU ARE NOW BECAUSE LFR/LFG ARE 100% OPTIONAL. Edited February 12, 2012 by Aleeha

[Tic-]

NEWS FLASH LFG/LFR ARE 100% OPTIONAL TOOLS WHICH YOU NEVER, EVER HAVE TO USE EVER. THEY ARE OPTIONAL. JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GAME OR COULD BE THERE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE IT. IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RUDE PEOPLE, NINJA's, IDLERS, or QUITTERS BECAUSE IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU CAN STILL GO ABOUT YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE THE SAME WAY YOU ARE NOW BECAUSE LFR/LFG ARE 100% OPTIONAL.

 

 

All caps AND large font, with red color...

 

 

Can this be construde as a legit reason?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Tic-

[Senatsu]

NEWS FLASH LFG/LFR ARE 100% OPTIONAL TOOLS WHICH YOU NEVER, EVER HAVE TO USE EVER. THEY ARE OPTIONAL. JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GAME OR COULD BE THERE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE IT. IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RUDE PEOPLE, NINJA's, IDLERS, or QUITTERS BECAUSE IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU CAN STILL GO ABOUT YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE THE SAME WAY YOU ARE NOW BECAUSE LFR/LFG ARE 100% OPTIONAL.

 

Ehm... No. It looks optional, but when 60% of the server (the people that want it, probably going very low on the percentages though) uses it, more people will jump on it. Eventually you will have 99% of the server using it because they couldn't be bothered fighting against it since it's obviously over-shadowing normal grouping, then that 1% who is still fighting is left in the mud and, eventually, they will jump in too. Not because they wanted, needed or thought it was good, but because they got even more bored trying to get a group from an even lesser number of players who felt the same way.

 

Think about it, a tool like this, looks optional, but ultimately, isn't.

[Claymaniac]

There really isn't. At least not for a same server LFD tool.

 

Communities and relationships in these games are formed by playing together. Not by reading spam in chat or sending people random whispers to group. Make the forming groups part easier and community will thrive.

 

Look, most people don't have the initiative or are unwilling to go through the effort of forming a group. That's just how it is. I am a prime example. I might be more than willing to run a lv50 flashpoint with strangers, but I am really not that interested in spending the time and effort to recruit people to join me. If I see someone else LFG'ing, I still probably don't want to join because we still have to put in the effort to look for 2 more. The other thing with that is, if I recruit someone in a group, I feel responsible for their experience. And I don't want that.

 

Call me lazy, call me anti social whatever. That's just how it is. Now, if there was a system where I could just select Directive 7 and say I want to fill the healing role for it and let the system auto create a group, that would be fantastic and I would use it all the time. And once I get in those groups and get to know the 3 others in my group, thats where relationships will get built.

 

That part needs to be made easier. Not, just here, but in every MMO. The days of spamming a chat channel with LFG messages are gone. That is an obsolete system. Lets evolve.

[DarthKhaos]

NEWS FLASH LFG/LFR ARE 100% OPTIONAL TOOLS WHICH YOU NEVER, EVER HAVE TO USE EVER. THEY ARE OPTIONAL. JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GAME OR COULD BE THERE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE IT. IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RUDE PEOPLE, NINJA's, IDLERS, or QUITTERS BECAUSE IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU CAN STILL GO ABOUT YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE THE SAME WAY YOU ARE NOW BECAUSE LFR/LFG ARE 100% OPTIONAL.

News flash news flash. If you think the implementation of a fully automated cross server LFG system would end up being "optional" you're lying to yourself and everyone here. It's like getting your own ship in this game. It's "optional" you can make it to level 50 without one but good luck with that.

[ispanolfw]

NEWS FLASH LFG/LFR ARE 100% OPTIONAL TOOLS WHICH YOU NEVER, EVER HAVE TO USE EVER. THEY ARE OPTIONAL. JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE GAME OR COULD BE THERE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE IT. IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RUDE PEOPLE, NINJA's, IDLERS, or QUITTERS BECAUSE IT IS 100% OPTIONAL. YOU CAN STILL GO ABOUT YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE THE SAME WAY YOU ARE NOW BECAUSE LFR/LFG ARE 100% OPTIONAL.

 

And that's the issue. Optional. So the people that DO want to use it are going to use it. Those who don't because they dislike it just had the playerbase they can group with, shrink, and possibly shrink ALOT. So it's fine that people like it, but don't even try to say there's no negatives and that if you don't like it you can just not use it.

 

EDIT: This is similar to the "it's optional" argument for Dual Spec. Sure you want it and like it, no problem. You say if you don't just don't use it. Except the problem is many will come to EXPECT you to be using it and if you don't they exclude you. So both become much less "optional" than people like to claim.

Edited February 12, 2012 by ispanolfw

[Aleeha]

Can this be construde as a legit reason?

 

I do not understand why people cry and whine about something they absolutely NEVER have to use EVER. They can still go from 1-<whatever cap is>, they can still do whatever end-game is and NEVER EVER have to use the LFG/LFR.

 

ZOMG I hate <x company> for adding tools that I NEVER EVER have to use. ZOMG I hate players for using a tool that enhances their gaming experience. ZOMG I had a bad experience using an optional tool, I know I kept using it and I know it's OPTIONAL but I hate you all for putting it there and my using it.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with LFG/LFR cross-server. A localized LFG/LFR still doesn't resolve the lack of <X class here> or lower server populations. Moreover, a localized server limits interaction with the tens of thousands of people in the game to what at times appear to only be a few hundred people on a server.

 

REMEMBER, LFG/LFR IS A 100% OPTIONAL TOOL THAT YOU NEVER EVER HAVE TO USE. IT IS OPTIONAL, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU DO NOT EVER HAVE TO USE IT.

[ispanolfw]

I do not understand why people cry and whine about something they absolutely NEVER have to use EVER. They can still go from 1-<whatever cap is>, they can still do whatever end-game is and NEVER EVER have to use the LFG/LFR.

 

ZOMG I hate <x company> for adding tools that I NEVER EVER have to use. ZOMG I hate players for using a tool that enhances their gaming experience. ZOMG I had a bad experience using an optional tool, I know I kept using it and I know it's OPTIONAL but I hate you all for putting it there and my using it.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with LFG/LFR cross-server. A localized LFG/LFR still doesn't resolve the lack of <X class here> or lower server populations. Moreover, a localized server limits interaction with the tens of thousands of people in the game to what at times appear to only be a few hundred people on a server.

 

REMEMBER, LFG/LFR IS A 100% OPTIONAL TOOL THAT YOU NEVER EVER HAVE TO USE. IT IS OPTIONAL, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU DO NOT EVER HAVE TO USE IT.

 

I'll just point to my previous post, optional does not mean there will be no negatives for others.

[Aleeha]

And that's the issue. Optional. So the people that DO want to use it are going to use it. Those who don't because they dislike it just had the playerbase they can group with, shrink, and possibly shrink ALOT. So it's fine that people like it, but don't even try to say there's no negatives and that if you don't like it you can just not use it.

 

EDIT: This is similar to the "it's optional" argument for Dual Spec. Sure you want it and like it, no problem. You say if you don't just don't use it. Except the problem is many will come to EXPECT you to be using it and if you don't they exclude you. So both become much less "optional" than people like to claim.

 

This is such total bull. If you are running OPS/FP's with your "FRIENDS" and your "GUILD" and they hate it as much as you, then you have ZERO FREAKING issue. Moreover, MY time bucko is important to me and spending more than 45+mins on Darth Sion spamming general chat for an FP group isn't a good use of MY time. If you dig that sorta thing power to you, I do NOT.

[Sotof]

Oh, I'm sorry. Obviously we all have a large roster of friends/guildies to play with at every hour of the day that we may decide to play.

 

Any kind of improved LFG or a LFD tool is generally looked upon as needed. Just because YOU don't need it doesn't mean the rest of us cannot benefit from it. You are obviously entitled to your own opinion, but I don't really see a reason to post it in this thread.

 

You 'opinion' is not a legitimate reason to not improve on the current LFG tool, it's simply just you saying "I got enough friends so I don't care" and nothing else.

Of course it is a legitimate reason for not having it, just as your desire to have it is a legitimate reason for having it. It is however simply my conviction that the time and money spent on an LFG tool is better used on something else. As a side note, it is perfectly acceptable for people to disagree with you and say why - trust me, the world would not be a better place if everyone either agreed with you or stayed quiet.