Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[ferroz]

What you want is one button accept group invite while being AFK

No, what I want it a button that I can click while not being afk, but also not sitting in fleet.

[Kaelshi]

But...they are objective, valid concerns...

 

Just because YOU refuse to accept them does not make them invalid or on-ojective does it?

 

Driz

 

 

you are missing a huge point - they are concerns and they are not based in any provable facts.

 

It would be like me saying there shouldn't be internet forums because the anonymity causes people to be jerks. Truth is most people who are complete jerks are internet forums are jerks irl. You just don't choose to associate with them irl so you have no contact with them but you run into them on forums.

 

That doesn't mean the forum should not exist - it does mean you have a choice to not use the forum just like you can choose not to use LFG.

 

In the end - there are fears and facts. You have fears that are not based in fact.

 

You can only say that because you fear of what might happen then we should not have an LFG.

 

You can not rationally say we should not have an LFG because your fears WILL happen.

 

There is no proof that LFG has done any of the things you suggest. none.

[ispanolfw]

Absolutely agree. There will always be different 'appetites'. I just see the quick group/slower group question as clearly on the side of most wanting to get a group sooner than later is all.

 

I am not downplaying others play styles at all. Going back to the majority/minority bit I just think (opinion here guys, not fact) that the majority would rather spend their time running content and not putting a group together. That is why LFD has been popular and effective.

 

See that's the thing, most anyone can agree that you want to play the game, not play the interface, or play the chat. But herein lies the problem. Without the tool, a large chunk of people don't want to use LFG because "it's too time consuming" or "too much work" This, in the type of game that is meant to be social, even if the reality is different. I enjoy the journey, all of it. Making the group, getting there, doing the content, reaping the rewards. The other side does not. They want to do the content and be done. And they have differing reasons for why, life interference, entitlement, whatever. But the problem is putting such a tool in flips who gets punished.

 

And like i've said in a previous post, this influx of people wanting this type of thing, or for games to be easier is reducing the amount of games I find enjoyable. I love star wars, I did not play SWG because I just didn't like it. I know people who loved it, I would never want to go in and change things to where they no longer liked it just for my or a groups benefit. Notice how I said change, as in the game is not like this already, or did not already have it in line to be implemented.

[PjPablo]

LOOK PEOPLE, you guys had your chance at "community building" and FAILED. It didn't work, and people are stuck in their fleets LFG when they shouldn't be. It's really as simple as that. Stop bringing up this notion of community in a WoW inspired game, it's just NOT HAPPENING.

 

I hate to say it but we are in the Age of the Fast Food MMO. People want to level fast, get the best gear, clear all the biggest baddest bosses without much pain or effort for that matter. Its the Now Generation of gaming. Community suffers for this.

 

People don't spend the time they once did getting to know others in game. Some still do sure, but in my experience that is the minority. When games needed groups for most things it was easier to build a community. When there were activities that didn't focus solely on running quickly to max and getting all the shiny gear communities were more relevant. The idea of MMO Communities, generally speaking, 'died' with WOTLK. As much as I did like WOW it had an adverse impact on the previous idea of the MMO community. There are some pockets still out there, but the age of the MMO community being what hold players to a game , in my eyes, is dead.

[Pythoris]

Actually so you mean players that could be afk safe for 15 min in the start a dungeon was working intended?

 

Not really. But seeing as how said person could be booted long before 15 minutes was reached, I'd say there are a few concerns about WoW that were much bigger. Wel, imo.

[Norbix]

I hate to say it but we are in the Age of the Fast Food MMO. People want to level fast, get the best gear, clear all the biggest baddest bosses without much pain or effort for that matter. Its the Now Generation of gaming. Community suffers for this.

 

People don't spend the time they once did getting to know others in game. Some still do sure, but in my experience that is the minority. When games needed groups for most things it was easier to build a community. When there were activities that didn't focus solely on running quickly to max and getting all the shiny gear communities were more relevant. The idea of MMO Communities, generally speaking, 'died' with WOTLK. As much as I did like WOW it had an adverse impact on the previous idea of the MMO community. There are some pockets still out there, but the age of the MMO community being what hold players to a game , in my eyes, is dead.

 

Yup. There's no going back for WoW or this game, either. Community building for MMO's would require a different game entirely, where the WoW mentality can be forgotten.

 

Nobody even chats in general chat in this game! Everyone is purely focused on easy rewards, and it's a shame.

 

To add further shame to this community, most people don't even communicate while in a group until it's time to say bye!

[Varghjerta]

No, what I want it a button that I can click while not being afk, but also not sitting in fleet.

What you want becomes irrelevant.

 

Basicly like i said prevent a group being able to kick a single person when in a LFD ?

While the single player joined doesnt do anything just on follow

 

Compared to

 

3/4 people in the group know eachother and join a group while mistreat/force that player from another server to not roll / do things in that group because of the threat that they will kick you?

 

How could you fix that so both are happy and wouldnt happen.

 

If you can explain that to me for example wow sorted it all out and there is absolutley no problem there now .

 

I could be talked over but if you cant explain how they could ever make that to work i am sticking with anti x-server LFD

[Kaelshi]

Those who are anti-lfg are missing a simple, actually proven, fact.

 

the LFG tool in WoW increased the number of people running heroic dungeons.

 

A lot of anti-lfg people(not all of course) are the more hardcore players who want to have the best possible gear and who's self-worth is based on how much better their gear is than the general population. Without an LFG tool in WoW there were many people who could not even find groups of Heroics, let alone raids, and so the pool of people with the highest level gear was relatively small. That pool increased when LFG was introduced.

 

I personally do not think an LFG tool is needed RIGHT NOW in this game. I believe it will be a good idea down the line when a majority of the population is level capped.

 

I forgot to mention, those who are anti-lfg also tend to be those who have set groups of players that have the time and capability to group on short notice and run those dungeons.

 

The LFG tool in WoW increased participation because it was faster to find a group with the needed roles if you were not already part of a guild or group who was online all the time.

 

the hardcores hated that a casual player could get the same gear they could, at least to an extent.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Kaelshi

[Kaelshi]

Yup. There's no going back for WoW or this game, either. Community building for MMO's would require a different game entirely, where the WoW mentality can be forgotten.

 

Nobody even chats in general chat in this game! Everyone is purely focused on easy rewards, and it's a shame.

 

To add further shame to this community, most people don't even communicate while in a group until it's time to say bye!

 

I've had a completely different experience. Everyone sees things differently. You think the community is terrible, I think it is vibrant.

[Introvertus]

But...they are objective, valid concerns...

 

Just because YOU refuse to accept them does not make them invalid or on-ojective does it?

 

Driz

 

No. They're not OBJECTIVE.

 

They're SUBJECTIVE.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

What you want is one button accept group invite while being AFK

Now you claim to know what I want? All I want is an effective LFG system, but I'm certain you already know that.

 

You're looking at the "you can just not use it" and saying optional, but it's more than that. Putting it in just flips the roles in your little explanation.

No, it doesnt. Nothing changes the fact that the choice to use the LFG tool or not is in the player's hands. If you hate the LFG system you can not use it, and nothing can ever take that choice away from you. It's not an automatic system (or lack of one) to which there is no alternative, like the one we have now.

 

You're claiming there are strong motivating factors for using an LFG tool once its implemented. That's probably true - but the choice is always made by the player. Not the tech. Not the functionality. Not the game. You.

[PjPablo]

Those who are anti-lfg are missing a simple, actually proven, fact.

 

the LFG tool in WoW increased the number of people running heroic dungeons.

 

A lot of anti-lfg people(not all of course) are the more hardcore players who want to have the best possible gear and who's self-worth is based on how much better their gear is than the general population. Without an LFG tool in WoW there were many people who could not even find groups of Heroics, let alone raids, and so the pool of people with the highest level gear was relatively small. That pool increased when LFG was introduced.

 

I personally do not think an LFG tool is needed RIGHT NOW in this game. I believe it will be a good idea down the line when a majority of the population is level capped.

 

More people are running raids now as well due to LFR. Now, some will actually look at that as a bad thing, but when you consider that for this game, a game positioned as very casual and very accessible, more people running content is a good thing.

[Varghjerta]

Not really. But seeing as how said person could be booted long before 15 minutes was reached, I'd say there are a few concerns about WoW that were much bigger. Wel, imo.

 

Actually they put a timer on that aswell while

At the same time limited the whole group to kick another person and we are talking purely about X-Server LFD now.

 

But aswell the quality on the dungeon had to get readjusted thanks to nobody wanted theire group to fail so hard just because one player refused playing

[Introvertus]

No that is actually also an assumption dont you know any people you can ask?

Or even use general on the planet you are on.

Those are avaible to you as it is now.

 

What you want is one button accept group invite while being AFK

 

How can you accept a group invite if you're AFK?

[Kaelshi]

More people are running raids now as well due to LFR. Now, some will actually look at that as a bad thing, but when you consider that for this game, a game positioned as very casual and very accessible, more people running content is a good thing.

 

 

agree - at least I think so. I've never had a steady guild or group of people - I can go at times and play a lot sometimes, but at best I'm an erratic casual player due to rl obligations. I couldn't ever promise a guild that if raid/group time was x-time on y-night that I could be there.

 

LFG allowed me to do Heroics when I otherwise could not have.

 

Hardcore players who had set groups absolutely despise that me, a casual player, can get heroic gear without playing half as much as they do.

 

they still can get the higher level raid gear that I would never get though since LFR is weaker versions.

[ispanolfw]

More people are running raids now as well due to LFR. Now, some will actually look at that as a bad thing, but when you consider that for this game, a game positioned as very casual and very accessible, more people running content is a good thing.

 

I'll go ahead and put my view out. I'm not bothered by a LFG tool. I'm bothered by a Cross server LFG tool in a split server based game. Unlike, for example, EVE Online where everyone is on the same world. I just see so many problems with a system that only brings people together from other servers for only one or two things, ie Instances really. In other words it's like someone stated, sledgehammer for cracking a nut.

[Varghjerta]

How can you accept a group invite if you're AFK?

 

That is a quite easy script/Add-on damn you can even make the invite sound trigger the process.

 

But what it cant do is transport you to that instance and what basicly pro x-server will be asking for next is auto transportation to dungeon aswell.

[Letsplayrift]

Because if you patch in a LFD tool then you are admitting the game launched unfinished, if you leave it out then you can say oh we intended not to have one.

 

btw xserver with teleport to dungeon is standard, you basically cant have an MMO without it, I know all you SWTOR guys never played an MMO before but thats how it goes

Edited February 13, 2012 by Letsplayrift

[ferroz]

What you want becomes irrelevant.

 

Basicly like i said prevent a group being able to kick a single person when in a LFD ?

While the single player joined doesnt do anything just on follow

What tools are in place to prevent that when not in lfd?

 

 

3/4 people in the group know eachother and join a group while mistreat/force that player from another server to not roll / do things in that group because of the threat that they will kick you?

The first time I ran into this was in everquest, in a group in BoT.

 

If you can explain that to me for example wow sorted it all out and there is absolutley no problem there now .

I didn't make that claim. It looks like you're arguing with a strawman.

 

I take it that you have no objective reason against an lfg tool? because you seem to be veering off topic.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

That is a quite easy script/Add-on damn you can even make the invite sound trigger the process.

 

But what it cant do is transport you to that instance and what basicly pro x-server will be asking for next is auto transportation to dungeon aswell.

just sit afk in the room where all of the flashpoint entrance are...That's functionally equivalent to being teleported there.

[JustAnotherClone]

A favorite phrase out of EQ comes to mind. "You ruined your lands. You will not ruin ours."

 

I don't have to come up with theories. I watched what happened with dungeon queues in Rift. People stayed in the main city and simply waited. Group quality in pickups went directly to hell because the mindset was all about getting the gear and screw the content. I saw this happen. I left.

 

I don't want to see such behavior encouraged here any more than it may already be. Some things should involve effort - even if it is just the minimal effort of watching your text screen and then getting to the instance. Makes it more real for me.

 

I guess "real" is subjective these days, sigh.

Edited February 13, 2012 by JustAnotherClone

[Varghjerta]

What tools are in place to prevent that when not in lfd?

 

Basicly the server is if a person feel mistreated he can say it to his guild his friends or and to the server x-server all those options are gone

The first time I ran into this was in everquest, in a group in BoT.

Yes you did but then you always got the choice blacklisting them because of that X-server that is also is gone

 

I didn't make that claim. It looks like you're arguing with a strawman.

 

I take it that you have no objective reason against an lfg tool?

 

So what do you mean my objective reasoning is not objective thanks to that you cant even answer how to protect a single player aswell as the group in a X -server LFD.

So you use the see no evil hear no evil stunt which is just lame

[Pythoris]

Actually they put a timer on that aswell while

At the same time limited the whole group to kick another person and we are talking purely about X-Server LFD now.

 

But aswell the quality on the dungeon had to get readjusted thanks to nobody wanted theire group to fail so hard just because one player refused playing

 

Well, I was talking abou tback when there wasn't a "timer". (I must have quit before they implemented that).

 

But I found the lack of updated content on a regular basis, the boring yet almost necessary grind of the wash-wrinse-dailies and overloaded BG activities, and the overall attitude of the community to be much bigger problems imo.

[Varghjerta]

just sit afk in the room where all of the flashpoint entrance are...That's functionally equivalent to being teleported there.

 

And if you at lv 50 have more instances

But dont worry auto teleport get you there and the afk one.

 

Keeping it on one server gives you the protection against leechers x-servers gives you none instead it promotes it.

 

And say one system that works that gives the same protection as keeping it on one server

[ferroz]

I don't have to come up with theories. I watched what happened with dungeon queues in Rift. People stayed in the main city and simply waited.

Why are you offering that as if it were an argument against lfg? People were already doing that before Trion added an lfg tool to that game.

 

people had been doing that for weeks. Invasions were failing all of the the place on my server because people were sitting in cities trying to get dungeon groups together.

 

Group quality in pickups went directly to hell because the mindset was all about getting the gear and screw the content. I saw this happen. I left.

That seems to be correlation, not causation.

 

Personally, I suspect that group quality dropped because more people were getting into groups, not just the people that were hardcore.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz