Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[PjPablo]

Maybe because the reality is you guys just want it - because WoW had it?

 

That is lazy.

 

The real problem you guys have is that of a low server pop...rather than petitioning for BW to resolve the ACTUAL problem, you demand a xsvr LFD which is, lets be honest, a sledgehammer to crack a nut scenario.

 

Why force mechanics into the game which, as many posters can testify, bring as many problems as they create....instead of you know, getting the actual problem sorted?

 

Seems kind of lazy to me...

 

Driz

 

I want it because it solves the issue it was designed for. Quick groups. I could not care less if it were in WOW. If it works it works. I think some DON'T want it just because it was in wow.

 

As far as pop issues there are two basic solutions. Transfers and merges. Merges are not going to happen so you can count that one out. There should be transfers, but why not introduce LFD since not only does it address some of the issue caused by pop issues but it also helps people get groups quickly regardless of pop? As an optional tool those that don't like it can choose not to use it. I just don't understand the opposition to an OPTIONAL tool.

 

Also can we please stop the 'lazy' stuff? The game is about as 'lazy' as you can get in a MMO, using the definition that it seems people are throwing around here. A game in which you can have max level characters, all BIS gear, all raid content cleared, etc in 30 days is about as 'lazy' as it gets.

[PjPablo]

Your post is purely anecdotal as well??

 

Just like every single one of the "pro" posts in this thread.

 

Just like every single one of the "con" posts in this thread.

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

there are no facts or numbers or data available...this entire thread is anecdotal so why does the pro anecdotes carry any more validity than the con anecdates?

 

Driz

 

Um yes. Which is why I said all evidence is anecdotal. Your point?

 

Also when you have an OPTIONAL tool you can choose whether to use it or not based on your own experience and opinion.

Edited February 13, 2012 by PjPablo

[ferroz]

If there are thousands then why cant they find each other?

 

Oh, I get it. The only people looking for group are all on different servers, or at different levels, or looking to do different content, or playing at different times, etc.

fixed that for you.

[EvilTrollGuy]

It will destroy the feeling of beeing known, this is a fact. At wow I knew half my server at vanilla, at WOTLK I knew 15 people and that was my guild. If you join a specific server then because of the rules there and its people.

All this does not exist anymore at a random tool that matches you with people from different servers.

 

 

This is what I don't get. Apparently the only way to be social is through FPs in this game. If BW implemented Pazaak, an expanded casino and useful cantinas would be even be having this *issue* you're suggesting? People would still have server-wide activities.

 

It's a shame how the only social activity in any MMO is through instances, especially because there hardly is any 'socializing' going on when playing like that.

[Introvertus]

The irony of it all will be when all the people in support of the x server lfd tool all start making posts about how they get booted from groups for no reason, too many people are ninja looting stuff and that people were needing for companions

 

We've already seen some posts on these thing but now the forums will be filled with them

 

You want lfd you want dual specs you will only have yourselves to blame for the game

 

So all of you supporters will be posting about how some guy from x server stole your loot and then youll make posts about how horrible the game has become and you can thank yourselves for it being that way.

 

Then you will all move on to another game and try your best to ruin that one as well

 

yeah because we're like, the bane of all evil for wanting something that makes the game slightly more enjoyable.

 

How exactly will dual specs ruin the game?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Introvertus

[Kaelshi]

Your post is purely anecdotal as well??

 

Just like every single one of the "pro" posts in this thread.

 

Just like every single one of the "con" posts in this thread.

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

there are no facts or numbers or data available...this entire thread is anecdotal so why does the pro anecdotes carry any more validity than the con anecdates?

 

Driz

 

it would be silly to say that the LFD tool INCREASES bad behavior.

 

It makes much more sense to say that an LFD tool increases your contact with people who behave badly.

 

The tool did not MAKE someone act like a jerk - that person was a jerk already and was going to act like that regardless of the tool.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to an LFD tool.

 

The obvious advantage is it is easier to find a group to do content.

 

The disadvantage is you will meet people you would normally avoid and they will act like a jerk.

 

It is completely a matter of opinion for each individual person on whether the benefits of an LFD outweigh the negative aspects of it.

[PjPablo]

it would be silly to say that the LFD tool INCREASES bad behavior.

 

It makes much more sense to say that an LFD tool increases your contact with people who behave badly.

 

The tool did not MAKE someone act like a jerk - that person was a jerk already and was going to act like that regardless of the tool.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to an LFD tool.

 

The obvious advantage is it is easier to find a group to do content.

 

The disadvantage is you will meet people you would normally avoid and they will act like a jerk.

 

It is completely a matter of opinion for each individual person on whether the benefits of an LFD outweigh the negative aspects of it.

 

HEY NOW!!! Your logic has no place 'round these parts.

[corbanite]

cross server LFD looks like a great way to get my companions geared. I'll be needing on everything for them and leaving the second I get what I want. yay for no queues as I am a tank.

[ImperialSun]

Um yes. Which is why I said all evidence is anecdotal. Your point?

 

Also when you have an OPTIONAL tool you can choose whether to use it or not based on your own experience and opinion.

 

The point is context is key.

 

The question was do we have any actual eivdence that LFD promotes bad behaviour.

 

Your derogatory remark was "Its all anecdotal". You said that because it makes your own view sound more credible.

 

If you were really being balanced your reply would have said both arguements for and against are purely anecdotal therefore no one can be sure...

 

Driz

[Varghjerta]

 

You don't like my arguments? Oh well - too bad. Because they fit right in with all the other crap you people come up with in order to make the Cross-Server-LFG tool seem like a bad idea.

 

How can youre X-Server prevent abuse either one from the

 

A Majority/guild in the group that takes advantage from a single player from another server forcing/kicking before drops and so on

 

And /or

 

Single player that gets protected and can do abuse and taking advantage because the group cant even kick him .?

 

Feel free using WoW anology they have had the longest run with this.

and which how to prevent this behavior?

 

example :Player joining as Tank while actually being DPS and just wait until someone leave to take that place or just going AFK 90% of the instance basicly

 

<insert list on what people are doing in there>

or atleast did in early Cata.

 

*Rolling need on everything

 

Basicly how will you prevent people being able taking advantages of the LFD system from in groups one way or the other that is just impossible?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Introvertus]

Also can we please stop the 'lazy' stuff? The game is about as 'lazy' as you can get in a MMO, using the definition that it seems people are throwing around here. A game in which you can have max level characters, all BIS gear, all raid content cleared, etc in 30 days is about as 'lazy' as it gets.

 

Not to mention the fact that you can have 400 crafting on 3 professions without ever having left the trade section of the main city

[Kaelshi]

HEY NOW!!! Your logic has no place 'round these parts.

 

 

lol right! logic on forums is taboo these days

[PjPablo]

cross server LFD looks like a great way to get my companions geared. I'll be needing on everything for them and leaving the second I get what I want. yay for no queues as I am a tank.

 

Well you won't be alone as that happens now. Witness the massive thread where people in this 'community' think that behavior is absolutely fine.

 

You would get away with that once in most groups.

[ispanolfw]

it would be silly to say that the LFD tool INCREASES bad behavior.

 

It makes much more sense to say that an LFD tool increases your contact with people who behave badly.

 

The tool did not MAKE someone act like a jerk - that person was a jerk already and was going to act like that regardless of the tool.

 

 

Actually this is only partially correct. Firstly, many of those "bad" people will indeed not be any different with or without the tool. However, with the tool, they have a higher level of anonymity than they would have without it. They can jump into a group where they will more likely than not, have people form different servers that they will likely not see again. And for some people, this encourages them to be more bold in their griefing. Anyone who reads Penny Arcade knows what i'm talking about.

 

Again, not all of them will be like that, but It most certainly does happen.

[ferroz]

there are no facts or numbers or data available...this entire thread is anecdotal so why does the pro anecdotes carry any more validity than the con anecdates?

because the thread is asking is there is any legitimate reason against having an lfg tool, and by legitimate, the OP means "objective and factual" even if he's not being that verbose.

 

so if you offer an opinion based or anecdotal evidence supporting not having it, that doesn't answer the thread question.

 

The idea is that if the conversation is

A: I want x

B: No, you shouldn't get X

 

the onus is on B to give a valid, objective argument against it.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[PjPablo]

The point is context is key.

 

The question was do we have any actual eivdence that LFD promotes bad behaviour.

 

Your derogatory remark was "Its all anecdotal". You said that because it makes your own view sound more credible.

 

If you were really being balanced your reply would have said both arguements for and against are purely anecdotal therefore no one can be sure...

 

Driz

 

So the phrase 'It's all anecdotal' is derogatory? lol I won't be replying to you anymore. Bye.

[Vulgarr]

I've been wondering for something quite some time now. A lot of the arguments to NOT have a x-server LFD tool is because people don't want to play with 'bullies' who behaves badly because they're "protected" by the x-server system (being sort of anonymous).

 

So my question is, do we have any *real* evidence in this increase of bad behaviour? I mean, do we have any studies or any (experienced) developers acknowledgin this apparent fact?

 

Or is all we got some random people saying it?

 

In the case it's just random people, I'd like to know if they've considered the fact that you'll be playing MUCH MUCH more with a such system (a tank in WoW finds a group pretty much instantly) and will thus play a lot more than without the LFD tool?

Take it however you want, but I'm genuinely curious about this issue and I'd like to know if a developer such as say Blizzard have regretted implementing it in their game.

well i wouldnt go as far as to call them "bullies". i just think they are d!ckholes that mommy and daddy didnt teach manners.

 

but thats just my opinion. lol @ "bullies".

[Introvertus]

Actually this is only partially correct. Firstly, many of those "bad" people will indeed not be any different with or without the tool. However, with the tool, they have a higher level of anonymity than they would have without it. They can jump into a group where they will more likely than not, have people form different servers that they will likely not see again. And for some people, this encourages them to be more bold in their griefing. Anyone who reads Penny Arcade knows what i'm talking about.

 

Again, not all of them will be like that, but It most certainly does happen.

 

I have a higher level of annoymity if I walk around with a darth vader mask on and hit people with a crowbar.

 

If I was the sort of person who did that, I wouldn't care whether I had anonymity or not.

[corbanite]

Well you won't be alone as that happens now. Witness the massive thread where people in this 'community' think that behavior is absolutely fine.

 

You would get away with that once in most groups.

 

People needing for companions does not happen in any groupsd I am part of currently. It is not right or OK. Players come first.

 

Our guild raids.. everything we do is to make raiding better. Giving a companion something a player needs is not for team progression and in fact hinders team progression.. We believe in a team game.

 

But give me cross relam L4D and I'll be as much of an ****** as the rest of them. especially with dual specs means my DPS can queue as tank for no queues..

 

Better yet with my tank I can charge people credits to go and shorten the queue for them and then quit the group once the group has been sorted.

[ferroz]

The point is context is key.

 

The question was do we have any actual eivdence that LFD promotes bad behaviour.

He's looking for factual, objective evidence, not anecdotal evidence.

 

Your derogatory remark was "Its all anecdotal".

That's not a derogatory remark.

 

if you think it's derogatory, you need to look up the definition of anecdotal.

 

You said that because it makes your own view sound more credible.

And?

 

If you were really being balanced your reply would have said both arguements for and against are purely anecdotal therefore no one can be sure...

Which means that there's no objective factual evidence that what you claim is truth. So it's irrational for you to expect other people to accept it as truth, or as a valid counterargument to the lfd tool.

[ispanolfw]

because the thread is asking is there is any legitimate reason against having an lfg tool, and by legitimate, the OP means "objective and factual"

 

so if you offer an opinion based or anecdotal evidence supporting not having it, that doesn't answer the thread question.

 

The idea is that if the conversation is

A: I want x

B: No, you shouldn't get X

 

the onus is on B to give a valid, objective argument against it.

 

Having the system will punish those who do not want or like it. Not having the system will punish those who do.

 

And yes, it does go both ways like that. Being optional doesn't change that, in fact, being optional reinforces it being that way.

 

Someone mentioned path of least resistance in the thread. That's what happens with the tool. You have the group of people who want it, those who don't and everyone in between. When it goes live, a certain amount of people use it. Now the people that don't have less people to choose from for making groups, and they see that people using the tool are having an easy time, so some start using it, lessening again the amount of people available to group with normally.

 

It really does go both ways, but many people, most on the Pro-LFD side from what i've seen here, seemingly refuse to accept that.

[PjPablo]

People needing for companions does not happen in any groupsd I am part of currently. It is not right or OK. Players come first.

 

Our guild raids.. everything we do is to make raiding better. Giving a companion something a player needs is not for team progression and in fact hinders team progression.. We believe in a team game.

 

But give me cross relam L4D and I'll be as much of an ****** as the rest of them. especially with dual specs means my DPS can queue as tank for no queues..

 

Better yet with my tank I can charge people credits to go and shorten the queue for them and then quit the group once the group has been sorted.

 

If you are going to be like that it isn't the LFD tool causing you act that way. You were 'that way' before.

 

Guess what happens when you queue as a Tank and you aren't one? What do you think your group will do?

 

Come guys, you really need to try harder with the counter arguments.

[ImperialSun]

because the thread is asking is there is any legitimate reason against having an lfg tool, and by legitimate, the OP means "objective and factual"

 

so if you offer an opinion based or anecdotal evidence supporting not having it, that doesn't answer the thread question.

 

The idea is that if the conversation is

A: I want x

B: No, you shouldn't get X

 

the onus is on B to give a valid, objective argument against it.

 

But thats the point...

 

There have been lots and lots of legitimate views and concerns expressed in this very thread, they are simply met with "No it isn't" or "You are wrong"....

 

This thread is an exercise in futility because when people do voice valid concerns they are discounted immediately with no evidence and/or supporting data.

 

The real reason no one can suuply you guys with a genuine reason for not having LFD is simply that you refuse to accept any of the reasons you are given...

 

In your minds there will NEVER be a reason simply because that would get in the way of what you "want"...

 

Driz

 

Driz

[corbanite]

If you are going to be like that it isn't the LFD tool causing you act that way. You were 'that way' before.

 

Guess what happens when you queue as a Tank and you aren't one? What do you think your group will do?

 

Come guys, you really need to try harder with the counter arguments.

 

me lol.. I'll be richer with creds that I charged thanks.

 

If you think people wont do this then you have 0 experiance of cross realm LFD.

 

The people in the group can go and wait.

Edited February 13, 2012 by corbanite

[PjPablo]

Having the system will punish those who do not want or like it. Not having the system will punish those who do.

 

And yes, it does go both ways like that. Being optional doesn't change that, in fact, being optional reinforces it being that way.

 

Someone mentioned path of least resistance in the thread. That's what happens with the tool. You have the group of people who want it, those who don't and everyone in between. When it goes live, a certain amount of people use it. Now the people that don't have less people to choose from for making groups, and they see that people using the tool are having an easy time, so some start using it, lessening again the amount of people available to group with normally.

 

It really does go both ways, but many people, most on the Pro-LFD side from what i've seen here, seemingly refuse to accept that.

 

If most people start using the tool isn't that a sign? I mean if the tool is full of the worst of humanity, like some here would have you believe, won't people run screaming from it? That won't happen because it works and the positives outweigh the negatives.