Big wins for casuals! Dual Spec - Cross server

[SushaBrancaleone]

Anecdotes and nothing more.

 

There are several ex WoW players in this very thread warning everyone that xsvr LFD was the worst thing ever to happen to WoWs community...are they lying then?

 

Making stuff up isnt debating either.

 

Driz

 

i am one of those and i have NO idea what your talking about...

 

speak for yourself not for "wowers" u will find 11 million people have 11 million opinions (and also 11 million "holes where the sun dont shine" cos after all, everyone has theirs...)

[Touchbass]

Anecdotes and nothing more.

 

There are several ex WoW players in this very thread warning everyone that xsvr LFD was the worst thing ever to happen to WoWs community...are they lying then?

 

Making stuff up isnt debating either.

 

Driz

 

Since when is facts an anecdote?

[face_hindu]

lol.

 

sorry i see many points being made here that have already being addressed. How is reposting these to avoid: sensless amounts on posts on a thread that brings.. nowhere.

 

Im providing a means to those who argue against the xserver lfg to have an intelligent debate which keeps into consideration the major points of the issue (from both point of views).

 

I feel you, and I was in your shoes on the issue of "Needing" in Flashpoints for companions, but I found that the people on the opposite side of the debate had no intention of even entertaining our contentions, let alone re-reading them. Sadly, without forum moderators, the same arguments are argued by the same people until everyone gets frustrated, and then the same arguments are argued by new people, and that's just how she goes. Me, I'm just here to argue, not to change anyone's mind.

 

Also: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

[SushaBrancaleone]

So you basically admit that you base your claims on some assumptions. Well, we've had these debates here, and the split is around 50-50. Though I did have a poll at some point where it was more like 60-40, in favor of keeping servers seperate.

 

So what's the smart thing to do for Bioware, on such a debate that seems to split up the community? It's really simple: split up the community! Connect some servers with eachother through cross-server tools, but allow other servers to remain seperate, with NO cross-server features at all. Let players decide for themselves whether they want to play on a server that connects to other servers, or play on servers without such features, but which will end up with a much tighter knit community instead.

As a cross-server player, you'll have no problem forming groups cross server.

As a dedicated server player, I'll have no problem forming groups and bonds with other people on my own server.

 

No, a "form own server only" option will NOT be acceptable. Each servers must be populated with only people who want to form X-server, or people who do NOT want to form groups X-server, since placing them together basically means that the X-server crowd gets it their way, while those who don't want it will be FORCED to use X-server as well because their servers' pool of players is half emptied from the people going X-server.

 

You clearly are one of those people who use the Kennedy reading method?

 

read 1 line skip one line?

 

I wont answer your points, but I would like to make u aware of the fact that u are answering to me for words i am just copying from another thread. It does say it clearly at the beg. of the post too....

[Amiracle]

I need to ask, where are these things so well documented? I spend 2 hours looking for a group on Hoth the other day, that's unacceptable. Give me a tool to find groups cross server but make it though there are still functioning tools that allow you to keep your server idenity. If the only way to get it is without a compromise so be it but lets work together

 

So, you spent 2 hours spamming LFG every minute and no one responded?

 

But put in a tool somehow will make people want to do the instances?

 

There is nothing in group content that cannot be obtained through solo play.

 

But yeah, that couldn't be the reason.

 

I wasn't looking for a group yesterday but somehow I did 4 heroics and was asked to join a guild.

[TheSwamper]

It's a shame and a definite departure from their early philosophy.

 

The real shame is the necessity of it.

 

This is what happens when you A) create too many servers, and B) use tired archaic mechanics of 'forced grouping for endgame progression'.

[darkcerb]

So, you spent 2 hours spamming LFG every minute and no one responded?

 

But put in a tool somehow will make people want to do the instances?

 

There is nothing in group content that cannot be obtained through solo play.

 

But yeah, that couldn't be the reason.

 

I wasn't looking for a group yesterday but somehow I did 4 heroics and was asked to join a guild.

 

Your exp =/= everyone's.

 

Not to mention how wonderfully vague your post is.

[SushaBrancaleone]

I feel you, and I was in your shoes on the issue of "Needing" in Flashpoints for companions, but I found that the people on the opposite side of the debate had no intention of even entertaining our contentions, let alone re-reading them. Sadly, without forum moderators, the same arguments are argued by the same people until everyone gets frustrated, and then the same arguments are argued by new people, and that's just how she goes. Me, I'm just here to argue, not to change anyone's mind.

 

Also: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

 

dont be so negative. this post started from a interview with Bio that said they are considering of doing crosserver lfg when they had originally said it would not be crosserver.

 

this is clearly a consequence of the numerous posts on these forums.

 

the arguments i was posting were among the most sensible in the above mentioned threads.

 

its good. very few other industries gief as much consideration to the opinions of their clients. In fact they usually prefer to steal it or buy client info from other companies.

 

here we get a chance to talk and directly afect the product.

 

theres more democracy here than in...

 

[ImperialSun]

I need to ask, where are these things so well documented? I spend 2 hours looking for a group on Hoth the other day, that's unacceptable. Give me a tool to find groups cross server but make it though there are still functioning tools that allow you to keep your server idenity. If the only way to get it is without a compromise so be it but lets work together

 

Agreed their will need to be some form of compromise on this as it splits the community almost 50-50 imo. Btw I was referring to the other thread on this issue that was like 200 pages, there were loads of well thought out concerns around both dual spec and xsvr LFD.

 

If you need help with finding a group why not have a new/improved LFG that is server only? That would automate the process for you? That would allow you to sit in a lobby screen instead of chatting in fleet or where ever...whats wrong with that?

 

Why does it HAVE to be xsvr LFG and all of the associated problems?

 

Driz

[Touchbass]

So, you spent 2 hours spamming LFG every minute and no one responded?

 

But put in a tool somehow will make people want to do the instances?

 

There is nothing in group content that cannot be obtained through solo play.

 

But yeah, that couldn't be the reason.

 

.

 

No one did leveling dungeons in WoW after while, when they introduced the X-LFD there were packed all the time. Next

[TheSwamper]

 

There is nothing in group content that cannot be obtained through solo play.

 

 

If only this were true, I'd buy a lifetime sub in a heartbeat. I'd go so far as to say that that statement is incorrect for every single MMO on the market.

[ImperialSun]

Your exp =/= everyone's.

 

Not to mention how wonderfully vague your post is.

 

Same could be said of your posts in this thread....

 

See how that works...

 

Driz

[darkcerb]

Agreed their will need to be some form of compromise on this as it splits the community almost 50-50 imo. Btw I was referring to the other thread on this issue that was like 200 pages, there were loads of well thought out concerns around both dual spec and xsvr LFD.

 

If you need help with finding a group why not have a new/improved LFG that is server only? That would automate the process for you? That would allow you to sit in a lobby screen instead of chatting in fleet or where ever...whats wrong with that?

 

Why does it HAVE to be xsvr LFG and all of the associated problems?

 

Driz

 

No it isn't 50/50 not even in this thread or the suggestion one you are the minority of the already minority posting.

 

What's wrong with a same server system? it's called fleet spam and it's not working especially on low pop servers.

 

I'd love to see these well though out counter-arguments btw because all I've seen is hyperbole, exaggeration and alarmist "Level 50 button next!!1" type arguments.

[AsheraII]

There is a lot of conjecture here, yikes. I like how you say ninja looting went up with the LFD when it's impossible to ninja loot because of the prevenative measures in place by the system.

Obviously, you were not playing WoW during the implementation of the cross-server instances then. Since at first, there WERE NO preventive measures in place. Then it took several months for them to implement one, which basically worked like "if you can't wear it, you can't need it". Really brilliant, since, guess what? Paladins can wear ANY type of armor. The only effect this measure had, was that paladins were needing on plate, mail, leather AND cloth gear, while mages could not need on any armor type above cloth. The mages could need on the tanking sword that the paladin was after though, so yes, things worked reaaaally well.

 

Yes, they updated all those "measurements" overtime (more than a year actually), but overall, it had more implications and took more work than what Actiblizzion probably expected from it. And that will be much, much worse in TOR, where players have companions to dress up as well. It will be much, much worse in TOR, where there is fully moddable orange gear, which allows an Imperial Agent to overhaul a Sith Marauder piece of gear and make it a perfectly functional and fully viable piece of Agent gear. I don't mind, the orange gear is meant for that purpose. It's just the players who have no idea about the implications of what they ask for.

[Sraom]

If they throw up a teleporting, cross server queue LFG system, I'm out of here.

 

SWTOR might as well add that.

 

My complaint about wow's LFG system is that it further kills any incentives to travel around the map and/or bind to endgame hotspots--instead, people simply stay in capitals.

 

Which means, no exploration or casual sight seeing, no world PvP, high level quest lines become obsolete even if well designed, etc etc etc.

 

Of course, LFG is only partly the issue in WoW. Many other issues contribute to the problems above, and adding LFG in the middle of WotLK is not that bad of an idea:

 

1) There's no incentives to explore anyways. Questing for rep is obsolete as farming rep with the tabard is much faster; resource gathering is discouraged because dual-crafting is encouraged; no incentives to farm gold either, gold in WotLK is a little too abundant and Blizzard use vanity stuff (like motorcycle) to recycle gold.

2) World PvP? Already killed by flying mounts;

3) High level quest lines? No incentives, offer way too crappy stuff compared to endgame, rep is slower than dungeons with tabard.

 

So, in WoW the LFG system actually only discouraged sight seeing. My opinion.

 

Well, in SWTOR, all of the problems above exist. Already very little incentives to explore (except for datacron hunt); very little incentives to do high level quests because jumping to endgame is so easy; very little incentives farm gold, gold comes too easily and people dunno where to spend; little incentives to gather resources as the profession system is kind of broken; world PvP is a joke because there's no endgame hotspots on map in which they gather.

 

Even sightseeing aspect of traveling to the dungeon is gone. All fps are in the fleet except for two, which ... requires traveling to a planet, get off the ship and go in.

 

So ... SWTOR might as well add an LFG tool.

 

However, I'd prefer they fix all those issues above by re-designing the systems of the game, such as profession, questing areas, relocate FP entrances to high level planets where opposite factions can meet and fight, blah blah blah. but that's just my wishful thinking...

[darkcerb]

Same could be said of your posts in this thread....

 

See how that works...

 

Driz

 

And right back at you.

 

see how that works? you're obviously not on a low pop server or you'd understand that the same server tool wont fix the issues at the least of my arguments you still haven't given any clear indication of these server community's you've spoken of. Certainly none that aren't actually just your guild or imaginary.

 

In fact you seem incapable of logical arguments MR Driz, should I just ignore you now and save my time?

Edited February 11, 2012 by darkcerb

[britishgamer]

the community the server crushridge had before RDF was pretty awesome. Everyone knew the best players on the server, guilds had major rivalries and when you raiding south shore and say that player that everyone knew ***** face you knew you were in for a fun night of screaming and trying to kill that one person or guild. Thats a community, not sitting waiting for a que to pop so you can get your epicz.... To all you people who say, the community you claim is only in your head or in your guild. This is what i have to say.....

 

then you've never experienced a community in an MMO game, which is a very sad thing. Which is why i can understand why people like me despise and claim that RDF destroys communities and all you simply say is, "what community?" You say that because you dont know any community to begin with which is a sad thing. You may tell me it was in my head but then youd be telling that to thousands among thousands among thousands of people that the relationships they had with people on their servers on X games were all imaginary.

 

If your a person who says" What community?" then i understand you as a person who doesnt know any better since youve never experienced it. But trust me when i say that RDF promotes zero accountability. Its the same as letting random people come over to your house for a party and by the end of the night when they have left, your missing items in your house. Since you didnt know them they have zero accountability and you have to pay with your own money to replace items that have been stolen. They will never receive any punishment or have to face any accountability for those items ever since the chances of you seeing them again are indeed very slim. Thats what RDF does to communities over a period of time. It is very convenient and very nice trust me i like the idea but i hate the negative results that it comes a plagues a game. 11 million people play WoW with that RDF still in effect because those 11 million people only want loot and want a single player RPG.

 

I want an MMO and finding my own group myself is part of the MMO experience and if you dont have the time to do that then dont play. Like i said before, you wouldnt ask a movie theater to make a 2 hour movie summarize it or fast forward parts to get it into a 1 hour time period. Youd only pay for a service of entertainment if you had the alloted time. Thats what an MMO is, its a service of entertainment. If you dont have the time for it then you dont have the time for it.

[Darth_Bond]

In the dev. Q&A on Feb 10th Dual Spec got confirmed and now an interview with Stephen Reid has just confirmed they are looking into a cross server flash point finder which is huge considering they said they didn't like the notion originally.

 

http://toroz.com.au/2012/02/stephen-reid-qa-summary-transcript/

 

Who won? Who is next? You decide!

 

EDIT: For people skeptical or lazy

 

Simon – Any plans for an LFG tool?

 

SR: Definitely being looked at including cross-server Flashpoint tool. Definitely wanting to do.

 

EDIT 2: The above is not "word for word" and there is a podcast that you can listen to and the LFD part comes around 26:10. Under no way or form does he say LFD Is coming cross server but he confirms that they are in fact looking at it which is HUGE from their previous stance.

 

 

YAY!! Almost everyone i know ingame wants a LFD finder(prefferably cross server)

 

the few fanboys who dont, are a vocal minority on these forums, who for some reason react to it as if it were wow, as kids with abusive parents do to their parents(Mommy never loved me!)

[Zilkin]

Obviously, you were not playing WoW during the implementation of the cross-server instances then. Since at first, there WERE NO preventive measures in place. Then it took several months for them to implement one, which basically worked like "if you can't wear it, you can't need it". Really brilliant, since, guess what? Paladins can wear ANY type of armor. The only effect this measure had, was that paladins were needing on plate, mail, leather AND cloth gear, while mages could not need on any armor type above cloth. The mages could need on the tanking sword that the paladin was after though, so yes, things worked reaaaally well.

 

You act like that was some wide spread phenomenon when it wasn't, sure there were people who did it but it was no where as common as you imply. I for example never ran into plate user needing cloth, of course that is just anecdotal evidence as is your experience, but it does prove it definitely wasn't something you ran into into in every second group

Edited February 11, 2012 by Zilkin

[ImperialSun]

No it isn't 50/50 not even in this thread or the suggestion one you are the minority of the already minority posting.

 

What's wrong with a same server system? it's called fleet spam and it's not working especially on low pop servers.

 

I'd love to see these well though out counter-arguments btw because all I've seen is hyperbole, exaggeration and alarmist "Level 50 button next!!1" type arguments.

 

Lol...your funny

 

There was a 200 page thread on DS and Xsvr LFD that was chock full of genuine concerns and people sharing their experiences of where xsvr LFD went wrong in wow etc.

 

But you are the type of person that completely ignores these and considers them irrelevant if they dont give you what you personally waaaant so I am not surprised you missed them. And as others in this thread have commented...if you read that 200 page thread it feels very much like a 50-50 split on this issue.

 

The only arguements I've seen from the "I want" crowd is "it wont affect your gameplay" which is as redundent as "go find a guild" so that doesnt wash.

 

The only other arguements I have seen from the pro crowd are nothing more than thinly veiled "I Wants it" reasons...

 

Just like wow though...those who cry and demand and act like spoilt emo kids are the ones that get the most attention....

 

That is WoWs legacy....one I am sure you and your WoW buddies are extremely proud of.

 

Driz

Edited February 11, 2012 by ImperialSun

[SushaBrancaleone]

the community the server crushridge had before RDF was pretty awesome. Everyone knew the best players on the server, guilds had major rivalries and when you raiding south shore and say that player that everyone knew ***** face you knew you were in for a fun night of screaming and trying to kill that one person or guild. Thats a community, not sitting waiting for a que to pop so you can get your epicz.... To all you people who say, the community you claim is only in your head or in your guild. This is what i have to say.....

 

then you've never experienced a community in an MMO game, which is a very sad thing. Which is why i can understand why people like me despise and claim that RDF destroys communities and all you simply say is, "what community?" You say that because you dont know any community to begin with which is a sad thing. You may tell me it was in my head but then youd be telling that to thousands among thousands among thousands of people that the relationships they had with people on their servers on X games were all imaginary.

 

If your a person who says" What community?" then i understand you as a person who doesnt know any better since youve never experienced it. But trust me when i say that RDF promotes zero accountability. Its the same as letting random people come over to your house for a party and by the end of the night when they have left, your missing items in your house. Since you didnt know them they have zero accountability and you have to pay with your own money to replace items that have been stolen. They will never receive any punishment or have to face any accountability for those items ever since the chances of you seeing them again are indeed very slim. Thats what RDF does to communities over a period of time. It is very convenient and very nice trust me i like the idea but i hate the negative results that it comes a plagues a game. 11 million people play WoW with that RDF still in effect because those 11 million people only want loot and want a single player RPG.

 

I want an MMO and finding my own group myself is part of the MMO experience and if you dont have the time to do that then dont play. Like i said before, you wouldnt ask a movie theater to make a 2 hour movie summarize it or fast forward parts to get it into a 1 hour time period. Youd only pay for a service of entertainment if you had the alloted time. Thats what an MMO is, its a service of entertainment. If you dont have the time for it then you dont have the time for it.

 

 

WHAT ON EARTH are u talking about!! Crushridge was the italian server. i am italian. i had lvled on another server, and tried playing on crushridge cos some friends did.

 

It was the worst server, full of ninja looters, trolls, chinese farmers spamming on chat and a lot of small kids practicising their bad words vocab on chat...

 

there never was a comunity on crushridge...

[Coiffio]

So you'll leave if they implement a tool that helps people get groups without spamming general chat for an hour? Cool. Have fun with your other games.

 

The convenience of the tool was never in question, the way the community generally deteriorated through it's use was the reason it left a sour taste in a lot of players mouths. Not everyone cared though, so it's why it's always been a debated feature. Myself personally, I was in the deteriorated community boat.

[darkcerb]

Lol...your funny

 

There was a 200 page thread on DS and Xsvr LFD that was chock full of genuine concerns and people sharing their experiences of where xsvr LFD went wrong in wow etc.

 

But you are the type of person that completely ignores these and considers them irrelevant if they dont give you what you personally waaaant so I am not surprised you missed them. And as others in this thread have commented...if you read that 200 page thread it feels very much like a 50-50 split on this issue.

 

The only arguements I've seen from the "I want" crowd is "it wont affect your gameplay" which is as redundent as "go find a guild" so that doesnt wash.

 

The only other arguements I have seen from the pro crowd are nothing more than thinly veiled "I Wants it" reasons...

 

Just like wow though...those who cry and demand and act like spoilt emo kids are the ones that get the most attention....

 

That is WoW legacy....

 

Driz

 

It wont effect your gameplay is far more compelling then

 

"I don't want this system...and I don't want others using one."

 

Love your post though, nice and chock full of insults and stereotypes.

 

You could of saved us both time and just said "Yes I'm trolling you, please ignore me"

[Valkirus]

Good to hear about the LFG tool for Flashpoints. The game needs it. I love the new LFR tool for WoW. Lets me experence the end game content , get some gear which is better than 5 man heroics. Also, to do those LFR encounters, I donot need to worry about a DKP system, mods/addons or vent. Pretty awesome. As far as dual spec, I think it will be good as long as they keep it within your advance class you choose.

[britishgamer]

WHAT ON EARTH are u talking about!! Crushridge was the italian server. i am italian. i had lvled on another server, and tried playing on crushridge cos some friends did.

 

It was the worst server, full of ninja looters, trolls, chinese farmers spamming on chat and a lot of small kids practicising their bad words vocab on chat...

 

there never was a comunity on crushridge...

 

Thats the EU servers im talking about US, pre RDF there was a very prevelant community, we were known for it.