Big wins for casuals! Dual Spec - Cross server

[AsheraII]

If they throw up a teleporting, cross server queue LFG system, I'm out of here.

Let's just hope they won't add it before the release of Mass Effect 3.

[ImperialSun]

Oh your more than entitled to your opinion I have no issue with that, it's just dual spec doesnt impact on gameplay apart from creating more healers & tanks. As well as allowing players to create a pve & pvp spec (more popular option).

 

My /facepalm is how does this create an atmosphere that makes a player want to quit? Perhaphs you could enlighten me, i've seen alot of reasons people will quit lately (and i'm one of them) but not over dual spec.

 

Depends on how its implemented.

 

I will choose not to use dual spec. However if someone else chooses to use it and is in a position where I am dpsing them and they get very low on health, click a button, transform into a healer so they can heal up, click a button transform back into dps to finish me off....I will quit.

 

That is how I have seen the feature requested...if its implmented like that, with no cost, no timer and/or the ability to switch on the fly whilst in combat I will be outta here...

 

If its implemented such that I am not penalised in anyway then fine

 

Xserver LFD will never get my support though - grew out of COD a few years ago lol.

 

Driz

[darkcerb]

 

Its like smoking. You might think its cool at first, but its going to give you cancer and kill you in the long haul.

 

More hyperbole!

 

More massive exaggeration.

 

The counter-argument to lfg tools folks.

[Utorian]

We need more hyperbole from the counter-argument in this thread, it really sells your point.

 

Apart from the hello kitty in space what did I really exaggerate?

 

Blizzard ballsing up? Hmm lets think about it eh? Ok they still have the most subscibers in any MMO, but they are leaving en mass. Instances get nerfed cause pug groups cant complete? Again no exaggeration at all! This has been proven over and over again.

[SushaBrancaleone]

Gone are the days of people being black listed for ninjaing loot. Gone are the days of people being accountable to any actions. And gone are the days of communities. Ever since Wotlk babies were born all its been and will ever be is people wanting "convenience" and not understanding the many negative repercussions.

 

you may say, then dont use it. Problem with that, majority will use that including your guildies to fill a spot that wasnt on. Is it convient yes, very but does it destroy a community yes it does. It makes it so people can ninja loot, wipe groups, and intentionally grief people without any repercussions. Yet all the Wotlk babies dont see that or rather understand that.

 

I understand if you have limited time to play a game you enjoy very much, its a sad thing but that only means then stop paying for the game that you dont have time for. Would you go see a 2 hour movie when you only had an hour to spare? No you wouldnt even dare waste the money and you wouldnt even think of asking the theater to "fast-forward" a movie so it can fit in an hour slot. Its the same concept folks but instead its a game that requires more than 30 mins to 1 hour a day. If you cant commit more than a couple of hours a day to a game then you souldnt be playing, simple as that.

 

I also understand if your on a low pop server and it sucks that you cant do anything about that, but whats better than destorying a community is by merging servers, cross realm RDF wont change your pop on your server or fix anything. The only solution is to server merge not but a band-aid on it and pretend the issue isnt there anymore.

 

flame on folks, flame on!

 

 

lols/....

 

again

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=279017

[JeremyDale]

Gone are the days of people being black listed for ninjaing loot. Gone are the days of people being accountable to any actions. And gone are the days of communities. Ever since Wotlk babies were born all its been and will ever be is people wanting "convenience" and not understanding the many negative repercussions.

 

you may say, then dont use it. Problem with that, majority will use that including your guildies to fill a spot that wasnt on. Is it convient yes, very but does it destroy a community yes it does. It makes it so people can ninja loot, wipe groups, and intentionally grief people without any repercussions. Yet all the Wotlk babies dont see that or rather understand that.

 

I understand if you have limited time to play a game you enjoy very much, its a sad thing but that only means then stop paying for the game that you dont have time for. Would you go see a 2 hour movie when you only had an hour to spare? No you wouldnt even dare waste the money and you wouldnt even think of asking the theater to "fast-forward" a movie so it can fit in an hour slot. Its the same concept folks but instead its a game that requires more than 30 mins to 1 hour a day. If you cant commit more than a couple of hours a day to a game then you souldnt be playing, simple as that.

 

I also understand if your on a low pop server and it sucks that you cant do anything about that, but whats better than destorying a community is by merging servers, cross realm RDF wont change your pop on your server or fix anything. The only solution is to server merge not but a band-aid on it and pretend the issue isnt there anymore.

 

flame on folks, flame on!

 

It doesn't destroy communites. Basically your argument is because you can't easily single out other players you don't approve of to ostracize - therefore it "destroys" communities, which is ridiculous on its face.

 

The odds of you running into this same so called "ninja" when using a cross-server LFG tool is pretty slim, so I think you are making a mountain out of anthill.

 

You know what actually really does ruin a community? It's people getting bored and quitting the "community" all together because they can't find a group and are bored as hell with nothing else to do after they hit level 50. That's what really destroys communities - people quitting this game because they are bored.

[ImperialSun]

Oh please, this game is already WoW. It pratically copied it's endgame word for word. So it may as well bring over it's best feature, which was it's cross-server LFG tool that made the gear-grind hammsterwheel easy to particpate in.

 

So if you want to blame anyone for games becoming more like WoW - blame Bioware. They are the ones who decided to copy it.

 

Also, it has nothing to do with being lazy. YOu really need to drop this line of attack, because it's inaccurate. I have spent hours on the fleet before trying to find a tank. Sometimes groups simply are not available. Period. No matter how hard you work, or how long you advertise. And it's not just me. I constantly see people deseprately trying to form groups on chat before they become frustrated as well.

 

It's a real problem, especially so since after 50 flashpoints is about the only thing to do on this game. So stop pretending this about being lazy. It's NOT.

 

If it was a genuine problem I would be experiencing it. I am not.

 

It's pure boneidleness.

 

Driz

[-Fritz-]

More hyperbole!

 

More massive exaggeration.

 

The counter-argument to lfg tools folks.

 

 

you skipped my entire post, pulled out one line at the bottom, and quoted it like you proved something.

 

you certainly are... special.

[SwigMcJigger]

If true, Dual Spec and X-realm LFG would be the smartest move Bioware has made this entire time. I know the OP pretends that being 'hardcore' means struggling to put groups together. But he's only trying to impress the hot chicks he shows his posting powers to.

[ImperialSun]

So we should spend all our time spamming for groups on the imperial fleet instead right.

 

Can you see the irony of your argument now or do I need to be clearer?

 

Ok the fleet is a lobby already there I spoiled it for you.

 

And nice comparison of apples and oranges you have going there.

 

I dont find I need spend hardly any time to get a group...just the teeny tinyest bit of effort.

 

The fact you cant spare 10-15 mins is not my faut...its just being lazy and wanting instant gratification.

 

Fleet is a social hub...as it should be. It is not the lobby screen you want.

 

Nice case of talking total ******** you have going on there.

 

Driz

[whiskers]

If true, Dual Spec and X-realm LFG would be the smartest move Bioware has made this entire time. I know the OP pretends that being 'hardcore' means struggling to put groups together. But he's only trying to impress the hot chicks he shows his posting powers to.

 

lol I need a like button lets ask for a like button in the forums

[NoxiousAlby]

Depends on how its implemented.

 

I will choose not to use dual spec. However if someone else chooses to use it and is in a position where I am dpsing them and they get very low on health, click a button, transform into a healer so they can heal up, click a button transform back into dps to finish me off....I will quit.

 

That is how I have seen the feature requested...if its implmented like that, with no cost, no timer and/or the ability to switch on the fly whilst in combat I will be outta here...

 

If its implemented such that I am not penalised in anyway then fine

 

Xserver LFD will never get my support though - grew out of COD a few years ago lol.

 

Driz

 

This will never happen, it will be the same as wow's dual spec. A player can only switch spec's when not in combat.

[JeremyDale]

If it was a genuine problem I would be experiencing it. I am not.

 

It's pure boneidleness.

 

Driz

 

Imperial, so I guess because you don't have breast cancer it's not a genuine problem either?

 

That's a very self-contained way to look at the world

 

Trust me it's a real and genuine problem. One I experience all of the time...the LFG issue that is, not the breast cancer lol

Edited February 11, 2012 by JeremyDale

[darkcerb]

you skipped my entire post, pulled out one line at the bottom, and quoted it like you proved something.

 

you certainly are... special.

 

Whats stopping you from making friends/socializing on your server with the tool?

 

Whats stopping you from getting a guild?

 

There handled the rest of your post.

[face_hindu]

If it was a genuine problem I would be experiencing it. I am not.

 

By that rationale, poverty, war, and famine are not genuine problems either.

 

Nor is intelligence.

[SushaBrancaleone]

whatever dudes. u clearly have no ears for the other point of view.

 

here is a post on regards: this is not mine

 

Originally Posted by Touchbass

Originally Posted by Touchbass

Dr. Blizzard or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the X-LFD

 

Before we begin our discussion, I'd like to start off with two extremely positive things X-LFD has brought to the MMORPG community. I'm not saying these two particular benefits make the X-LFD mandatory, but for us to have any kind of a civilized conversation you need to first recognize the inherent benefits X-LFD has brought to these two issues.

 

1) The saviour of low population servers/factions

 

The global LFD tool basically prevented low population servers from hemorrhaging players and salvaged a ton of communities from what a lot of players had previously written off. For those who are unaware, there are currently servers in WoW with less than 30-40 players on a faction at max level at a given time during peak hours. You can literally spam for hours and not receive any replies, its quiet depressing in fact. To be an unfortunate individual stuck on one of those servers, you tend to have one out of threeoptions: spend real life money to transfer off, quit the game, or play the game in a limited capacity. I don’t have the numbers for each of those three options but I’m sure to some of those left on the server felt as if they were on a ‘sinking ship’. When the LFG hit, populations took surges and people came back again. Players could gear themselves up independently of the server being in shambles and guilds were allowed spend their time tackling raids instead of searching for the elusive member(s) to fill out the dungeon group.

 

2) Access to low level content

 

I’ve seen some servers with more naked BE’s running around Orgimmar begging for doubloons than the entire max level base of other servers, even with these massive populations problems can still exist. While the good times were rolling (or dancing on mailboxes), hardly anybody was running low level dungeons. The problem wasn't lack of interest (as inherent of how easy it is now to get a group for lower level dungeons regardless of your group role), the issue was that it is time consuming and a pain in the butt to track down people and fill out the trinity for content that you could of probably leveled out of by the time you finished the bloody dungeon in the first place. With the addition of LFD, leveling became less of a pain if it wasn't your thing and created access. I don't think a lot of people realize that with the LFD a lot of players for the first time got to see these dungeons within the appropriate difficulty parameters.

 

 

The next section is some insight into why the whole LFD crisis came up in the first place

 

1) Gaming demographics have changed

 

The average face of a MMORPG gamer has changed dramatically over the past, we are melting pot of veterans, power games, stay at home dad/moms, the unemployed, the mentally ill, casual gamers and multi-platform gamers. Due to the mass appeal, subscriptions have soared like never before and have brought unforeseen consequences when the play styles of some of these gamers have clashed. The challenge is how we accommodate players of differing extremes: some want tight-knit communities that encourage and require players to work together, players who support grouping within same server but demand working reliable tools to facilitate the process, and finally players who frankly just want access to the game they paid for at their convenience.

 

2) Why should we be catering to these different crowds?

 

Money. The things money buys is good for an MMORPG, it allows it to evolve and address the concerns of players in a reasonable amount of time. The wheeled engine of WoW costs a tremendous amount of money to run, if we got rid of all those players that didn't fit 100% into our ideologies of what a gamer should be we'd see substantial loss of customer service, R&D and free content patches to just name a few things. More importantly, life sometimes makes you transition your availability due to work/school/annoying wife, if a game you truly enjoy is built around one play style you'd be up the creek without a paddle if you can't obligate that time anymore. All of us are probably guilty of taking advantage of the benefits brought to us from our fellow gamers; we need to be more sympathetic to their plight.

 

3) This isn't Kansas anymore

 

Don't let anyone fool you, traditional MMORPG's were built on the concept of ludicrous grinds that basically required an obscene amount of time to reach max level. Now don't confuse my words, this isn't a discussion of how long the leveling process should take or am I advocating the hitting of max level of not being an accomplishment - what I am trying to say is the gaming atmosphere of old which doesn't exist in any practical sense to the target markets Western MMO's are trying to reach out towards. We are spending countless resources trying to redo the leveling process and making it alt friendly, why would we do that when the hard cores spend most of their time at max level? We do this because they are no longer the majority of the player base and the genre has evolved for better or worse, the pockets of the many out weight the pockets of the few.

 

 

4) The Rise of the Titans

 

The height of MMORPG's are communities (think of the name itself), they are living bustling entities that evolve even when you aren't logged on. One of the most efficient and memorable ways of binding a community is the requirement of other players to facilitate something, whether a crafting ingredient or his/her help in a group for example. This created an atmosphere were people who put any resemblance of effort to becoming actually integrated into server and those who caused any problems where chastised and shunned. Imagine advertising your group intentions in whatever deemed appropriate channel and being able to categorize all of your responses with the notation of whether that person is worth grouping with or a waste of time. Don't underplay the notion that servers felt distinctly different from one another and had an identify, rolling need for an off spec item if that was taboo on the server could literally blacklist you. Wait, why is any of this deemed a problem?

 

5) Square peg meets the round hole

 

I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself at this point, hi my name is Charles and I'm a tank. I was the living breathing personification of the aforementioned lifestyle, I'd log to receive a plethora of tells to clear up dungeons for friends on off nights and raid like men on main nights. Everything was going great until I had my son; life and my game time started to change drastically for me at this point. No longer could I commit set chunks of time to play due to child raising duties and I was conversely dropped off the guilds active roster as the tank. I was still able to complete dungeons and occasionally fill in to OT but something fundamentally changed, getting premade groups became difficult for me. What changed wasn't that I become unpopular or my skills had waned to the point of “noobery”, what had fundamentally changed was how much of a hassle everything had become. Before I’d plan to play only 3 hours due to other obligations, I’d log on, see who’s on and we’d negotiate when we’d start. This would allow me to delay my set chunk of time to later or start it immediately and get off, now when I tried to get groups together it was a one shot deal and if people were indisposed at the moment I was unable to get anything done. After weeks of incomplete game time I regrettably said my farewells to my server top guild and only came back for expansion releases (when groups are easy to find) and permanently when the LFD came out.

 

This next part I attempt to highlight why certain situations paved the way for the LFD in the first place, I’ll be making some assumptions but anyone with a dog in the fight (aka has a job and/or family life) will understand that they are reasonable and fair.

 

 

1)Not everyone has 24/7 availability

 

If you work a full-time you only really have between 3-4 hours of playtime a night before you are significantly affecting other areas of your life. Weekends are a different story, sometimes you get to play a lot and sometimes you have less time then weekdays, but let’s say you squeeze in 10 hours total across the weekend. I’m being very generous with the above allotted times, if you have any outside obligations, hobbies, studies, other games of interest or a family, those times allotted are going to skyrocket down. That equals 25 hours of playtime roughly week for a medium to borderline hard core gamer, where I personally think most people are between 11-16 hours. Some people think spending an hour to form a group of “friends” online is acceptable gameplay, while I won’t say that they are wrong but I’m going to say a lot of others disagree strongly.

 

 

2)Think LFD causes problems? The old model was worse

 

Now picture you log on for your daily bread (I mean hours) and instead of going out and enjoying the world you have to stand around a capital city to ask for a group. You just got off work and already you’re not having fun, you’re being forced to work to enjoy yourself. Under the old model it used to take around 20 minutes at minimal for assembling the group and arrival at the instance, some people could get it done faster and others, well couldn’t get it done at all for various reasons. Now imagine someone has to go, god forbid it’s a tank and that means someone has to leave the instance to ask again, by this point another player may drop and your run could be over. Having a run collapse can eat upwards of 2 hours of someone’s play time, if not more. Losing that time may not be a big deal to someone but if they only have 11-16 hours to play a week, not being able to get a dungeon off the ground is going to cost them a significant chunk of their playtime for the week and not including the time it takes to assemble another one.

 

3)The solution that worked for most gamers

 

With the addition of the LFD tool, gamers where finally given a tool that could maximize a person’s time in an efficient manner. When you click that button you know you have roughly between 10 and 30 minutes at longest before you group starts. This gave players the option of doing some dailies, farming some particular items or doing something quick in real life, regardless of their choice they were finally using their time to something they wished. This isn’t as much about the length of time but the expected duration of how long a particular task will take which is important. If I know I that when I log on and I have 3 hours to play and I can calculate it’ll take me 30 minutes to assemble a group, 1 hour to complete it and 45 minutes to do my dailies afterwards I’ll be a happy customer. Now imagine I log on, spend over an hour trying to find a group and can’t complete the group, by the time I reach the point where I can no longer finish the dungeon due to time constraints I’m going to rush through my dailies in a bitter mood. This doesn’t have to happen many times for people to throw up their hands and say to “hell with it”.

 

4)Work odd hour or strangely irregular hours

 

One of the biggest groups that got punished were those who didn’t game when the rest of us were online. Think you got issues assembling a group in the pre-LFD days, trying being online when there aren’t even 5 people online at your level. For years they were told to relocate to a server that best fits their needs, ignore the content entirely or quit. I shouldn’t have to go into why there is something substantial wrong with the above helpful advice and in fact I won’t.

 

5)The player level bubble

 

This sort of ties within an earlier point but I just wanted to expand on it quickly. Group content is great when it’s accessible now imagining having no one around you to complete it. If the majority of players are at max level how are you supposed to perform group activities prior to the level cap? The old model was beg in /1 or coerce a guildie into feeling bad enough to run you through it. This is the reason WoW removed the majority of elite group quests, not because people weren’t interested in them but because people couldn’t get them done in a reasonable amount of time.

 

The next section is my attempt to reconcile the two crowds and try to break the ignorance that is plagued towards us “second class citizens”

 

1)The LFD destroys communities rant

 

This is the biggest and loudest argument and deservers the most attention, we need to think about what the perspective is of the person who is advocating this and what are his intentions. His premise is very understandable, why on earth would you want anything you cherished to be besieged? The players from this perspective are happy with their current gaming experiences and view anything dramatically changing as threatening their positive experiences. They may claim they are community individuals, but they aren’t in fact they really only looking out for their own interests and have no regard for the majority of the player base.

 

2)The LFD killed WoW (or severely crippled it)

 

This has to be the most erroneous statement I’ve heard in the debate and I have to applaud who came up with that conjecture for how much is has swamped the MMORPG community. First off, how would you analyze this statement for any shred of truth? I’m not going to take your anecdotal evidence as fact, because quite frankly the LFD tool brought me back to the game and I know countless others who came back to the game because of it. In fact, the only evidence we can look at that is considered fair is how many subscriptions came back with the addition of the LFG feature versus who left the game at the same time. I wonder who’s going to come out on top of that one

 

3)The majority of these people opposing the LFD are hypocrites

 

The only thing that changed was that we could no longer force people to communicate with others when they didn’t wish it or it wasn’t convenient. If you had a laundry list of friend’s pre-LFD to always do groups with, you should have seen absolutely no change at all in your gameplay experience. What could have possibly changed? You would log on, talk to your guildies and friends and come up with a time to run dungeons as you always did prior. If you were unable to facilitate a group as it sometimes can happen, you’d ask if anyone knew anyone or you simply just ask in trade. When someone refers to bad experiences with the LFD tool, I ask myself how they found themselves interacting with the tool in the first place. You clearly couldn’t find anybody to group with so instead of sitting around in Orgimmar spamming for groups you realized what the rest of us realized years ago that it that wasn’t fun. You then took the approach of joining a queue intended for a different gaming experience and got upset when it wasn’t to your liking. I can’t be the only one who is baffled by this, can I?

 

 

4)Ask not what your server can do for you but what you can do for your server

 

With every major patch people leave and quit which swings servers into mayhem. One of the servers a buddy of mine played on was Smolderthorn, it had a top 100 guild and a fair balance till WOTLK server instability issues forced transfers. Within a few content cycles the server was completely damaged and people jumped ship. If someone quit during TBC and came back after the LFD was introduced he’d logically think it killed the server when it fact did not. Become part of the solution and not the problem, post your attentions on the server forums that you want to participate in a server event. You don’t even have to do know what to; you can usually leverage someone with ideas that has no warm bodies to fill them. Start small and work your way up. There is tons of information on Google on this so happy hunting!

 

5)Players have diminished in quality since the LFD for reason X,Y, and Z

 

No, what has happened is people are of different skill backgrounds and you’ve just never realized just how many of them take up your player base who keeps your game running. This isn’t the days of yore when everyone who plays strongly understands the genre, blizzard has opened up the market for different crowds and it’s their playing experience too. Think of it from the other side of the coin, how do you think it is for us more casual player base to deal with you people on a more regular basis? Don’t got 100% optimized gear and talent spec for an encounter that don’t require it, get ready to get instructed on the values of life and potentially booted. Ask to a do all the bosses to a geared tank, better believe that’s a vote kick.

 

6)The Z in “X,Y, and Z” is for laZy

 

One concern is that queue based systems will make people lazy and lethargically spend their time throughout the game world. We’re living in the country that works one of the most hours per person in the world and has severe time poverty and you’re confused why people are trying to take shortcuts? You’d have to be insane or unemployed not to take every time related advantage that doesn’t spoil your own experience in a game that soaks them up like nothing. Being lazy has no discrimination for which it strikes, whether it’s elites afking in bg’s for High War Lord titles or Johnny McNoob /afking in the raid finder

 

7)People are ******es in the LFD

 

This is the only argument I particularly agree with, it is true that anonymity breeds people to make actions that may have not made in a different situation. Blizzard has given us a tool to deal with it; it’s called the vote kick. If you DO NOT abuse the vote kick, it is available almost every time you’ll ever need it. The majority of incidents that I’ve personally witnessed have been people taking someone’s words to seriously or someone “ninjaing” something. Now, for the latter it’s impossible to ninja in this game, I need you to understand that. “Ninjaing” for the sake of this argument is taking something that didn’t belong to you, entering into a rolling chance with someone when both parties legitimately want an item is not stealing. If someone has the same armour class or item proficiency, then casually speak to them in public or private to get their intentions, you’d be shocked in how people are civil once you make that communication leap and instead of assuming. For the attitude part, that is everyone’s job to try and keep a cool head. If you see people fighting over something in game, first off don’t make it worse by saying who’s right and who’s wrong. Secondly try and defuse the situation, I’ve been able to do this a few times or at least get to the point where everyone agrees it’s best to move on but be silent. Lastly, if else fails, Blizzard has given us the vote kick for these types of measures, use accordingly though or be warned it may not be there when you require it.

[britishgamer]

No the game ending at 50 is not better then destroying an imaginery community.

 

No the days arn't gone as long as you can ignore people alla rift/wow and never see them again.

 

No you clearly don't understand that people have limited time and that that time could be far more efficiently spent without wasting time in the fleet lobby instead being qued in a tool while you go about your business.

 

No the only solution is not to server merge.

 

Why would all your friends be using the system I wonder? Why don't you ask them, why don't you group with them?

 

Why are all your arguments completely devoid of logic?

 

you are a wotlk babie so hello, you dont understand them so you go on and try and make sense of them by saying they are invalid. This is called a state of denial my friend and its ok. You obviously never played SWG, FFXI, or many other great games with community. games where you knew the best guy for a certain material. Games where you knew this certain person was known for ninjaing or griefing so people would bar him from anything as a way of punishment.

 

Again you want a game with zero accountability which is unacceptable. in like your accountable for your actions and i would expect the same in a game community. Its sad to see that you dont have the brain power to see or recognize what a community is and you prolly will never understand or know what a community is. So talking to you is like talking to a wall. People sit in general chat for hours because one thing, they are not socializing. If im in a group of people i socialize and add the people i like to my friends list and then invite them the next day for some more groups. If we were to keep that up then no one would in sitting in the fleet for hours without a group. Therefore no need for an RDF and a community would be established. Right now adding an RDF would cut off the legs of an early not fully grown community and destroy what little community we currently had.

 

as a closing note, The SWG "Community" is what kept that game alive for about 8 years if im not mistaken. They were one of the last great community based MMO's and i fear that this one wont have the chance to even become a great Community MMO.

[Amiracle]

I find it interesting that all these people cannot find a group but they are all looking for group.

 

Something doesn't add up if everyone is looking for group but everyone cannot find one.

 

I just wonder how many of these people have even made an effort to get into a guild.

 

But yeah, somehow having a real life prevents them from finding a group.

 

Not sure how real life and finding a group in a game relate to each other.

 

Basicly what these people want is a queue system where they will be thrown into a group with people and then proceed to say nothing and you will feel like they are your companion and not a real player.

 

Or maybe its just that everyone is playing this game a single player RPG because grouping is not required to enjoy the main story which is the selling point.

[face_hindu]

whatever dudes. u clearly have no ears for the other point of view.

 

here is a post on regards: this is not mine

 

<snip>

 

Please never do that again, ever.

[-Fritz-]

You will never see me agree with a cross server tool.

 

I played WoW before the cross server tools, and then after, and ive seen it both ways.

 

Before the cross server systems i had a friends list a mile long and would never have dream of quitting.

 

Within a year of the cross server queue system going live my friends list was non-existant as noone cared anymore and the people in the game became more and more greedy and self centered to the point i started to feel disgusted to even be subjected to the community.

 

Its the result of constantly grouping with complete strangers you will never see again. It doesnt take long before greed takes over the game.

[NoxiousAlby]

I find it interesting that all these people cannot find a group but they are all looking for group.

 

Something doesn't add up if everyone is looking for group but everyone cannot find one.

 

I just wonder how many of these people have even made an effort to get into a guild.

 

But yeah, somehow having a real life prevents them from finding a group.

 

Not sure how real life and finding a group in a game relate to each other.

 

Basicly what these people want is a queue system where they will be thrown into a group with people and then proceed to say nothing and you will feel like they are your companion and not a real player.

 

Or maybe its just that everyone is playing this game a single player RPG because grouping is not required to enjoy the main story which is the selling point.

Which is why solo flashpoints with 3 companions would be so much better than x-server RDF. I know i'd use it

 

edit: Just had to get my sales pitch in there

Edited February 11, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[darkcerb]

you are a wotlk babie so hello, you dont understand them so you go on and try and make sense of them by saying they are invalid. This is called a state of denial my friend and its ok. You obviously never played SWG, FFXI, or many other great games with community. games where you knew the best guy for a certain material. Games where you knew this certain person was known for ninjaing or griefing so people would bar him from anything as a way of punishment.

 

Again you want a game with zero accountability which is unacceptable. in like your accountable for your actions and i would expect the same in a game community. Its sad to see that you dont have the brain power to see or recognize what a community is and you prolly will never understand or know what a community is. So talking to you is like talking to a wall. People sit in general chat for hours because one thing, they are not socializing. If im in a group of people i socialize and add the people i like to my friends list and then invite them the next day for some more groups. If we were to keep that up then no one would in sitting in the fleet for hours without a group. Therefore no need for an RDF and a community would be established. Right now adding an RDF would cut off the legs of an early not fully grown community and destroy what little community we currently had.

 

as a closing note, The SWG "Community" is what kept that game alive for about 8 years if im not mistaken. They were one of the last great community based MMO's and i fear that this one wont have the chance to even become a great Community MMO.

 

No friend If you actually read my post you see that I want accountability.

 

But you're not going to read this are you?

 

"You're wrong, you're a wotlk baby I'm right, SWG was the best game ever"

 

Nice response, yet another troll ignored.

 

Just fyi I played EQ and wow from it's first year until just recently and rift from a week after it's released until now and onwards.

[ImperialSun]

Imperial, so I guess because you don't have breast cancer it's not a genuine problem either?

 

That's a very self-contained way to look at the world

 

Trust me it's a real and genuine problem. One I experience all of the time...the LFG issue that is, not the breast cancer lol

 

With cancer your talking about a terminal illness.

 

With this your talking about people that are so far down the path of instant gratification they call spending 10-15 mins to group up too much effort. They then demand the game is turned into an FPS style lobby game because that takes less effort to play.

 

How is that the same?

 

Driz

[-Fritz-]

Whats stopping you from making friends/socializing on your server with the tool?

 

Whats stopping you from getting a guild?

 

There handled the rest of your post.

 

you just keep wanting to prove how "special" you really are.

 

I never even mentioned anything about guilds or anything like that. you just randomly spewed it out... which i think sums up the general intelligence level of your posting.

[SushaBrancaleone]

lols at you trolls...

 

here some more properlly done counter arguing from another post:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varghjerta

No you are advocating LFD because you want it to be faster just with a press of a button.

no, I advocate it because it adds something to the game without taking anything away (at least, noone can offer anything but purely opinion based problems with it). That seems like a winning combination to me.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldrenath

Finally, my point is that cross-server LFD tools destroys community and heightens douchebaggery. And it DOES impact people that choose not to use it by way of the fact that since nearly everyone will use it (because of how simple it is), it will make finding on-server PUG groups much more challenging.

Well I can see 3 possibilities.

1. The vast majority of people are in favor of the lfg tool. You'll actually have some challenges finding a group. But, since you're part of a tiny minority, it's silly of you to insist that the majority not get their way.

2. The vast majority of players are not in favor of the lfg tool. You'll have no significant additional challenges for finding groups.

3. The split in the community is somewhere in the middle. You'll have a bit of challenge added to finding groups but will still be able to find groups that way in a reasonable amount of time, and the folks in favor of it will have some of what they want, but not all of it, since a significant portion of the player base won't be be using that tool. Both sides give up something and gain something. this is called compromise.

 

I suspect that #1 is actually the truth, but that's just my suspicion.

Quote:

Or, as you (rightly) put it, tedious. If LFD were introduced, I imagine you'd see this: Player 1: LFG for any HM FP. Healer here. PST if interested. Player 2: Just use LFD n00b lulz!

That's a win-win situation: you get to easily identify and ignore the players that you really don't want to be grouping with anyway.

 

Quote:

1. That's your opinion, and I believe you. Doesn't make my experience any more or less valid.

It does, however, show that you aren't actually offering a valid argument against the lfg tool by relating the fact that you've had negative experiences in wow's lfd tool.

 

Quote:

2. Incorrect. Because people usually choose the easiest path rather than the better one, because people are idiots (myself included). Just because something can be made easier doesn't mean it should. In point #2, you completely ignore the social ramifications X-server LFD tools carry. In your opinion, those things don't matter. In mine they do.

In my opinion, they'd matter if they existed... but I have yet to see anyone mention a negative impact that's actually caused by the lfg tool. matter != justify not having it.

 

Quote:

3. True. But again, this is your opinion, not a fact, and based on your personal experiences. My personal experiences were different. In my experiences, "occasional jerk" tranlated to "jerks 50%+ of the time". Again, you say my points are less valid because they are substantiated only by opinion and personal experience. This is another of your points, substantiated only by opinion and personal experience.

Clearly, we can take from this that neither of your experience is an argument for or against in the general case.

 

Quote:

5. Your opinion is that LFD offers a choice. Mine is that it does not.

That's not opinion. You can choose to use or or not. Period.

 

what it offers is perhaps a choice that you don't like... but it's a choice non-the-less.

 

Quote:

It makes nearly all people wanting to PUG use the LFD tool. I readily admit that.

So, you're saying that you're in a tiny minority?

 

Quote:

However, I believe that this has significant negative downsides for the server as a whole. Among which: 1) Heightens doucebaggery.

No, it doesn't You're just making an unsupported claim here; I'm pretty sure that you can't actually support it with facts.

 

Quote:

2) Since everyone uses the LFD, it becomes much more difficult to make friends with players on your local server, thus reinforcing the cycle of using the LFD tool.

This one isn't true either. It's just speculation.

 

Quote:

3) Completely removes social aspects of group play. Since you'll never group with these again, there's no point in chatting at all.

You're basing this on a flawed premise: an lfg tool (whether single or cross server) does not mean that you'll never group with them again. Beyond that, I'm sorry that you're so antisocial that you're not willing to socialize with people that you're only seeing once; that's not true of everyone

 

Quote:

Many groups (in my experience) dont even want to discuss tactics.

This was the case in wow before the lfg tool. It was the case in EQ pugs a decade ago. People don't want to discuss tactics once they're trivial.

 

Quote:

So, in sum, I respect your opinion but it is not based on facts any more than mine is. Your opinions seems to be based on your thoughts and experiences, just like mine is, and therefore no more inherently valid.

I think it's pretty clear that the stance that you're arguing with is based more on facts and less on opinions than the one you're arguing. They've shown concrete advantages to people that are based on fact. You've offered purely opinion based contradiction.