Request to Change Project and Throw, with suggestions and examples…

[Sentzu]

I used to hate project, but it's starting to grow on me now that I have the skill that sometimes includes a second object. I still dislike it to a degree, but not as much as I used to.

 

Throw on the other hand is horrible... Compare some slow moving pebbles to a flurry of blaster bolts or force lightning, and you simply cant imagine how the damage would be comparable.

[Encaitor]

BIG approval on this. Its quite unbalanced to that SI:s Shock is instant meanwhile we need to pull up a rock and then throw it ! Agree totally on that more "air" like spells would be better. Please bioware fix this !

[Kudaran]

Can't let this thread die... I fully support the changes in the animations even though I play the Shadow Spec that doesn't revolve around throwing rocks at things, I still gotta use it occasionally. The animations you provided in your original post would work perfectly. I'd like to see some kind of Consularesque ability, it just doesn't seem 'noble' chucking rocks at people.

[Rigvar]

The only animation I hate is the raised arms after a T wave. He just holds his arms straight up, completely still afterward, its stupid looking. granted Peebles are pretty lame, and the shield ability looks like butt, but otherwise, it's pretty good all around. I'm sure they will improve these over time.

[BatZera]

100% agree. Those two abilities lack logical story sense, they don't fit the rest of the skills theme, and they look aesthetically terrible.

[Khadroth]

tl;dr My goal is to have all animations on the Sage side as thematic and awesome as what is on the Sorcerer side. Thanks.

 

By "as thematic" you mean stale and repetetive? I'd rather not have to stare at 4 different variations of the same effect thanks. And personally I find the Sage animations awesome and variable.

 

Don't find the Sage animations cool? Ok fine, but most of us do or don't care enough to change them. Like the Sith Sorcerer animations more? ....No I don't even have to say it.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Khadroth

[Jinnz]

I want whatever animation gives me the best framerate, because its a terrible huge issue in this game, if no-one had noticed.

[Dyvim]

By "as thematic" you mean stale and repetetive? I'd rather not have to stare at 4 different variations of the same effect thanks. And personally I find the Sage animations awesome and variable.

 

Don't find the Sage animations cool? Ok fine, but most of us do or don't care enough to change them. Like the Sith Sorcerer animations more? ....No I don't even have to say it.

 

WHY do you like them? See because in the star wars movies I saw, DARK JEDI/Sith throw crap. Not light jedi. So, yes, I do NOT like them, and I have actual reasons for not liking them...they are about as light-jedi-ish as red lightsabers. No argument, no debate, they sux, period. Unless you can point out somewhere in the movies where jedi threw junk? See because I can point out several places where dark jedi threw junk, but NOT ONE where a light jedi originated an attack with throwing something.

 

So on your side, you have "I like it". My reasoning involves a little more, like what you should actually EXPECT from jedi powers. Most people do NOT like them. At best they tolerate them. Most people do like lightning on the sith side. Complaining about shooting lightning as a sith makes about as much sense as complaining about having a red lightsaber. So when I say thematic, I mean in keeping with the BASIC themes of the IP. Not hard to do, since game after game has done it. Going back 14 YEARS AGO to DF2:JK, throwing debris was a DARKSIDE skill. It still is, only problem is the devs who phoned it in on the consular animations havent figured it out yet.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dyvim

[Onager]

My guild rerolled republic on Drooga's Pleasure Barge after I got my Sorcerer to 46 on Mandalore the Indomitable. Needless to say, I was somewhat unintrigued with both Project and Telekinetic Throw's animations, especially after seeing the intro cinematic with Satele Shan.

 

Animations aside, the talent trees themselves could use a great deal of reworking in their own right.

 

By "as thematic" you mean stale and repetetive? I'd rather not have to stare at 4 different variations of the same effect thanks. And personally I find the Sage animations awesome and variable.

 

Don't find the Sage animations cool? Ok fine, but most of us do or don't care enough to change them. Like the Sith Sorcerer animations more? ....No I don't even have to say it.

 

The general public doesn't need you to defend them. 'Stale and repetetive (sic)'? Pulling ancient earthenware from the hull of a space ship. Dumb. I do like the silliness of hoisting an intact astromech droid from... Somewhere... And hurling it, but that's just me.

 

I was actually kinda hoping that I could use Project to throw endless amounts of infant flesh raiders at my opponents, but my hopes were soon crushed.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Onager

[Vealage]

I agree with a lot of what you said, except for Project and TThrow.

 

Unlike most, I don't have a real problem with Project. There is an ability that enemies get to use called Project Storm. It is basically a combination of Project and TThrow. The player continually picks up and throws random objects. The animation is already in the game, they would only need to enable it for T Throw.

[Dyvim]

I agree with a lot of what you said, except for Project and TThrow.

 

Unlike most, I don't have a real problem with Project. There is an ability that enemies get to use called Project Storm. It is basically a combination of Project and TThrow. The player continually picks up and throws random objects. The animation is already in the game, they would only need to enable it for T Throw.

 

The basic abilities really really need to get AWAY from throwing crap and move towards light jedi kinetic force attacks that are completely independent of the environment...they look good anywhere and work anywhere...

 

But something like you are describing is what I have suggested to replace forcequake, or add to it...while it is channeled you could have project like animations where you are hurling junk into the quake kill zone. That should throw a bone to the chunk a clunker fans, and get the basic consular abilitites of project and throw to ACTUALLY look like light jedi abilities, NOT trash hurlers, for sages and shadows.

[Onager]

The basic abilities really really need to get AWAY from throwing crap and move towards light jedi kinetic force attacks that are completely independent of the environment...they look good anywhere and work anywhere...

 

But something like you are describing is what I have suggested to replace forcequake, or add to it...while it is channeled you could have project like animations where you are hurling junk into the quake kill zone. That should throw a bone to the chunk a clunker fans, and get the basic consular abilitites of project and throw to ACTUALLY look like light jedi abilities, NOT trash hurlers, for sages and shadows.

 

We have to be clear on something. Mechanically, the Inquisitor was the template for this class archetype, rather than the Consular. You can see it in every single aspect of the class.

 

How, then, does one take a sorcerer and make it light side? This is the question that led to throwing junk being the answer. I personally would've felt that the consular and inquisitor (along with every other mirrored archetype) should've differed somehow in execution to make these kinds of things unnecessary.

 

World of Warcraft got by for a while with one side having Paladins and the other Shamans. Granted, they ended up throwing that idea under the bus, but that doesn't doom the concept by itself.

 

I can't really speak of the novels or extended universe, but unfortunately all Jedi were pretty much variants of the archetypal knight the vast majority of the time. There's not a great deal that the lore can go on here.

[Dyvim]

We have to be clear on something. Mechanically, the Inquisitor was the template for this class archetype, rather than the Consular. You can see it in every single aspect of the class.

 

How, then, does one take a sorcerer and make it light side? This is the question that led to throwing junk being the answer. I personally would've felt that the consular and inquisitor (along with every other mirrored archetype) should've differed somehow in execution to make these kinds of things unnecessary.

 

World of Warcraft got by for a while with one side having Paladins and the other Shamans. Granted, they ended up throwing that idea under the bus, but that doesn't doom the concept by itself.

 

I can't really speak of the novels or extended universe, but unfortunately all Jedi were pretty much variants of the archetypal knight the vast majority of the time. There's not a great deal that the lore can go on here.

 

But you dont take a patent darkside ability - junk throwing - and make it the BASIS of the light jedi abilities. It just doesnt work and should never have been done. The basis of the consular needs to be what Satele shows us in the Hope video. That way both shadow and sage get away from throwing junk as their basic ranged attacks that they can never outgrow.

[kevshootit]

I honestly think that both project and TK throw aren't THAT bad purely by themselves. For me, its the idea that so many consular builds HAVE to use them to be viable and, for me, they just dont fit the "staple force attack power" model all that well. ESPECIALLY for shadows.

 

Aesthetically, i think they are both better served as "higher level utility" attacks for SAGES.

 

imagine with me for sec:

 

1 -replace current animations with faster, cooler, force energy/wave attacks as outlined in OP or pulling "force push" from knights and making that the "staple" ranged attack for consulars

 

2 -make project a higher level, optional, high damage interrupt in a sage tree with a later skill that allow you to throw two rocks. to me, the animation fits better as a 30m "lift a huge freakin boulder and really do some damage with it attack" with a cooldown, vs a short-range spammable early level attack

 

3 -Make Tk throw a 30m CONE attack that affects a GROUP, give it a slow, or a debuff, or a really useful "group interrupt" that make it MUCH better tool than a rooted single target attack, the only reason I can think of to grab a bunch of small pebbles is as a "smoke screen" kinda deal, so many better uses of force to cause damage

 

the whole "light side jedi don't throw things" arguement just doesn't mean much to me, I don't think that "lore intergrity" is the REAL issue. For me, its about the aesthetics

[kevshootit]

The basis of the consular needs to be what Satele shows us in the Hope video. That way both shadow and sage get away from throwing junk as their basic ranged attacks that they can never outgrow.

 

are we SURE Sateel is a consular?

 

she seems to wear medium armor... she leaps, uses force push, I'm wondering if that AOE she uses in the trailer is "sweep" and she is very involved in the KNIGHT story on tython.......

 

other than using a double bladed saber... anything else "consular-ish" that I'm missing? Kira very similar.... looks like a shadow, plays like a knight just torture

[PinnyFox]

are we SURE Sateel is a consular?

 

she seems to wear medium armor... she leaps, uses force push, I'm wondering if that AOE she uses in the trailer is "sweep" and she is very involved in the KNIGHT story on tython.......

 

other than using a double bladed saber... anything else "consular-ish" that I'm missing? Kira very similar.... looks like a shadow, plays like a knight just torture

 

Well, unlike Sweep, the AoE Satele used was practically all force. I don't even think she had her lightsaber out when she did it. That's basically force wave.

[Dyvim]

Well considering the set in stone weapon restrictions in the game, Satele has to be a Shadow, if anything, of course, like her master, that was probably a guardian who also had consular type abilities, she is a hero-type.

 

But she is more consular/shadow than anything, from what I have seen.

[hallucigenocide]

these animations was the reason i abandoned my inquisitor for a consular.. i suggest you do the opposite and go darkside if you prefer their animations.

[Dreamsinger]

to be honest I am still more concerned about the delay than the animation, though I would not cry to see them change, cheer in fact.

[Dyvim]

these animations was the reason i abandoned my inquisitor for a consular.. i suggest you do the opposite and go darkside if you prefer their animations.

 

I have seen many posts and talked to several people in game that said the exact opposite...that the chunk-a-junk animations drove people to the dark side. Personally, I play BOTH. In playing both, it makes the piss poor consular animations just stand out more. The darkside animations, for the most part, are excellent. The consular animations violate basic jedi lore AND are poorly done, even if you are ignorant or uncaring about that lore.

[ozirizo]

I think Project should be changed to a Force Push.

 

I still don't understand something so iconic for Jedis (on pair with Sith Lightning) isn't available for every Jedi out there.

[theaei]

I totally agree. Not to mention that Project has a long casting animation whereas the sith lightning is almost instant. They get to shoot huge purple lightning bolts while we throw rocks? Are you serious?

[Arconee]

Project is 100times better looking than shock. But 100 times less effective

 

As for Sorcorers all their animations look the same, shock, electrocute, lightening, discharge, whirlwind? and im sure im missing some.

[Dyvim]

Project is 100times better looking than shock. But 100 times less effective

 

As for Sorcorers all their animations look the same, shock, electrocute, lightening, discharge, whirlwind? and im sure im missing some.

 

Well Sorcerers disagree. Shock is awesome, its that quick jab to nail someone in the nose and stun them or get their attention. Its perfect. And its completely Sith. It also makes sense that its the first ranged skill you learn as you get more impressive lightning attacks later. Thats called progression. And those lightning do not all look the same. That is silly. They do have the same THEME though. Yes, they use lightning. But the animations are quite different...shock is very much different from force lightning...the animations with teh casting toon vary, number of hands used, etc. Its like saying all lightsaber animations are the same because lightsabers are in them...that is just wrong, and makes me think people arent paying attention.

 

And whirlwind is absolutely AWESOME. Instead, consulars get force lift, which is so lame is laughable...it should at least turn the target upside down or something. If Im just lifted in the air, I'll still be shooting a blaster at ya...its just silly. Whirlwind, on the other hand, now that OBVIOUSLY would incapacitate its victim.

 

THe Sorcerer animations are amongst the VERY best in the game. Some people arent fans of the various forms of lightning with the different casting animations...and they are different. But then again some people arent fans of red lightsabers either. But both are completely SITH. I would like to see the consular animations be completely JEDI. Throwing junk is not jedi. In any way, shape, or form.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Dyvim

[Arconee]

And those lightning do not all look the same. That is silly.

 

All the abilities i mentioned involve some form of purple lightening shooting from range and hiting said target. They all have a different purpose but they all "look" the same.

 

If you don't believe me go over to the pvp forums and count the amount of threads were players complain that Project doesn't stun in pvp and Shock does. When they are infact talking about Electrocute which is mirrored to force stun. so dont say they don't look the same.

 

That is silly...

 

Throwing junk is not jedi. In any way, shape, or form.

 

Neither is craving flashy animations

Edited January 5, 2012 by Arconee