rakuenCallisto Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 True, but I did enjoy Warhammer's RVR. It somewhat reminded me of DAOC. Warhammer's PVP was *********** AMAZING and I only wish TOR can bring half the PVP potential Warhammer did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakuenCallisto Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 not being able to disable the snapping camera. Big, missing, feature this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkhaine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Warhammer's PVP was *********** AMAZING and I only wish TOR can bring half the PVP potential Warhammer did. Warhammer's PVP was/is a zerg-fest. However, when it was zerg-vs-zerg (with accompanying cross-faction trashtalk on the shared vent) it was a blast. Edited February 10, 2012 by Morkhaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Warhammer's PVP was/is a zerg-fest. However, then it was zerg-vs-zerg (with accompanying cross-faction trashtalk on the shared vent) was a blast. Best thing about zergs is there is plenty for targets for good groups to pick off and kill when the battles get hot. As long as the coding can handle the lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkhaine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Best thing about zergs is there is plenty for targets for good groups to pick off and kill when the battles get hot. As long as the coding can handle the lag. Yeah picking off the stragglers to the zerg (and the rush when you're a straggler and you might get picked off) was pretty awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otakuon Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Nope. I played two other MMORPGs at launch. FFXI and LOTRO, and both of these games FROM LAUNCH kept me entertained and busy for a lot longer than a month. This game has a very tragic and flawed combination for any game, launch or not. And that is an overly breif leveling session followed by a shallow and boring endgame. This has NOTHING to do with it's launch. It's just a near fatal-flaw in game design, and people like you need to stop trying to make excuses for it by continuously harking back to other games at launch. It's just lame excuse making. Period. Please explain what the "near fatal-flaw" in game design is? What did FFXI and LOTRO have at launch that that TOR does not? Sounds more to me like a subjective assessment based on what you personally define as "fun". Obviously, what is considered "fun" in any video game varies from person to person. Edited February 10, 2012 by otakuon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaheria Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Otakuon, I agree with your post completely. I played wow from the Beginning and it was horrible at launch and several years after that. Did anyone play before the AH split when the only AH you had was in Ironforge? Most people couldn't even walk through the gates of IF without sever lag or crashing and it took them what 3 years to fix it? And that was only one of many many problems it had, but it got better because people stuck with it and gave them feedback as to what they wanted and gave them the time to fix it. I personally think wow has gotten worse with each expansion they put out but that's just my opinion. I also have to laugh at the post that said wow had excellent customer service. Really? You've obviously never had to deal with them when you had a problem. They are HORRIBLE. Anyways to get back to the subject of SWTOR. I'm having fun with the game. I have a 50 and yeah I stopped playing her to make another character but that's mostly because there are not enough 50's on my server yet to do end game stuff. Heck it takes all day just for me to run one pvp game. I'm enjoying the story line of my second character while I'm waiting for everyone to catch up, so I can try out the end game stuff. As far as bugs go I've only ran into one (my ship gets stuck in the middle of the screen every once and awhile when I'm doing my space dailies). It's not really a big deal or anything threatening the stability of the game. (I just start the quest again they only take 5 min and the bug doesn't happen that often) That is the only bug I have so I'm kinda wondering what all these other bugs are that "threaten the future of the game." Makes me wonder if it's not just a bunch of whinny brats that want everything to be perfect and handed to them. And I really really hope that Farmville is not the future of gaming... Edited February 10, 2012 by Jaheria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordric Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 standards people ... it's all about standards yeah, yeah, yeah, it took wow 7 years to get it to where it is now. we all get that and welcome to 2012 year after year they (blizzard) gave the players new long begged for gimmicks, built-in "addons", other tools and whatever ... people cheered with joyful tears it is standard now (try selling a new smartphone that has no internet access or ability to customise with them 20billions of apps) and here we are now .... new promising game comes out (dec 2011) ... "omg I cannot wait..." but .... back to the roots no lfg-tool, no dual spec, no ui-customisation, no AH (this so called kiosk is an insult) and so on ... srsly w.t.f but hey... all part of the plan in a couple of weeks BW will announce their next big patch ... new Raid bla, and finally the long promised and overdue <insertlongmmostandardfeature> people will cheer with joyful tears I like swtor, don't get me wrong ... but BW really needs to speed things up to keep me (who cares) and (I guess) thousands of other people playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeodic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That's not a valid excuse either. New items are released all the time with more features and that work better then their predecessors. We don't expect them to keep up with the Jones's, just include things that are fundamental to MMO's in general. They missed the boat badly on many of these and saying "its hard" or "we would have had to push back launch some more" is a cop-out. I like this game, but they have no excuse for several of the things they botched completely. And what was the name of the MMO you developed and released for public consumption?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaheria Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 it is standard now (try selling a new smartphone that has no internet access or ability to customise with them 20billions of apps) I would love a smart phone like that. I don't use any of that crap and the battery life would last longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Please explain what the "near fatal-flaw" in game design is? What did FFXI and LOTRO have at launch that that TOR does not? Sounds more to me like a subjective assessment based on what you personally define as "fun". Obviously, what is considered "fun" in any video game varies from person to person. I already explained that to you. An overly-breif leveling up process combined with a shallow and boring endgame. That is the near-fatal flaw in it's game design. If you are going to have such a boring endgame you need to stretch out the leveling up process a lot longer than they did. And rather you feel FFXI and LOTRO were boring at launch or not is irrelevant. The point is it had enough content to keep you busy AT LAUNCH for a lot longer than a month. Where as on SWTOR, it's barely been a month and I"m already maxed level and bored to death. That is my point. And I found SWTOR fun too, WHILE I had things to do.... Edited February 10, 2012 by JeremyDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaftyMcShaft Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Please explain what the "near fatal-flaw" in game design is? What did FFXI and LOTRO have at launch that that TOR does not? Sounds more to me like a subjective assessment based on what you personally define as "fun". Obviously, what is considered "fun" in any video game varies from person to person. More hours of content than Square Enix SNES games? I don't care about bugs at launch, I care about content. It took me six months to exhaust the content WoW launched with. SWTOR? About 4 weeks. SWTOR is fine for a single player game, but there's nothing worth paying a subscription for. Oh, and I'll give them plenty of time. Months, years even. In the meantime though, sub canceled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otakuon Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Look, I am not going to say that TOR is perfect...far from it. In fact, no MMO should ever be considered "perfect" less the developers get complacent and stop making changes and adding new features/content. But this notion that the game has to fail because it doesn't have all the features and content that you want right out the gate is silly at best, and harmful to the entire genre at worst. What would have happened if this attitude persisted during WoWs launch? The game would never become what it did today. And what about EvE, or EQ, or any other MMO that was launched back in the hey-day of MMO launches when people actually knew what an MMO was and what it meant to play one (and had, you know, patience). Yes, we need to scream and yell about needed bug fixes, and more features, and new content. But pointing fingers and giving up is not going to accomplish anything. It is ultimately counter-productive. If you don't like TOR because it's just not the game for you, fair enough. But to simply come on here and say "TOR HAS FAILED MAKE YOUR TIME YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE" is pointless. Provide constructive criticism and provide positive feedback and change will come. BW is listening, whether you want to believe that or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So whats your take on differences between NHL 1999 and NHL 2012? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Look, I am not going to say that TOR is perfect...far from it. In fact, no MMO should ever be considered "perfect" less the developers get complacent and stop making changes and adding new features/content. But this notion that the game has to fail because it doesn't have all the features and content that you want right out the gate is silly at best, and harmful to the entire genre at worst. What would have happened if this attitude persisted during WoWs launch? The game would never become what it did today. And what about EvE, or EQ, or any other MMO that was launched back in the hey-day of MMO launches when people actually knew what an MMO was and what it meant to play one (and had, you know, patience). Yes, we need to scream and yell about needed bug fixes, and more features, and new content. But pointing fingers and giving up is not going to accomplish anything. It is ultimately counter-productive. If you don't like TOR because it's just not the game for you, fair enough. But to simply come on here and say "TOR HAS FAILED MAKE YOUR TIME YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE" is pointless. Provide constructive criticism and provide positive feedback and change will come. BW is listening, whether you want to believe that or not. I think my posts are very constructive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerokTalram Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) No. Not just no, an emphatic no. This is not 2004. This is 2012. This is a triple A release from a huge company where no expense was spared in making the game. Some of the missing features are inexcusable, and some of the bugs are ridiculous in nature (WZ's not giving victories for example) I'm not going to give them a pass because "it was just released" and neither should you. So some features they didn't find important enough to be in the launch. Just because they are in another game or on your wish list doesn't mean they are necessary. None of these so called missing features prevent game play no matter how game breaking you think they are. Also they had to release at some point. If they hadn't decided on a specific set of features to be included in launch and just add every feature of every stinking MMO ever made, they would have never launched. Why because as soon as they added all those features someone like Rift or WoW will come out with another. And what difference does a game being written 2004 or 2011, have to do with anything. Games written now are more complex, have greater graphics, larger installs and huge code bases. If anything games have gotten more complex not less. Sure you can build on prior experience and work, advancement really doesn't make things easier neccessarily, it just changes your focus and how you work. Edited February 10, 2012 by JerokTalram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Oh hey, look, OP is another player who thinks WoW was the last MMO to release before TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudou Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes, some things should've been implemented during it's development cycle towards launch but would you rather Bioware keep delaying the game for years in order to keep up with the competition? It's alot harder to implement these things to games like this than some people think. If Bioware kept delaying its release in order to address these things, it wouldn't stand a chance against its competition with the fact of lost interest over time due to numerous delays. Examples: Conan online, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings online. You are showing me examples of games released with inferior systems and missing things that failed. IE: Age of Conan animation differences causeing female characters to do 33% less dps.. Which SWTOR has republic issues getting the damage out on instant cast moves due to animation. Warhammer online, another failure... made by teh team behind SWTOR. LOTRO, niche game, kind of meh, went F2P. Like TOR is headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otakuon Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I already explained that to you. An overly-breif leveling up process combined with a shallow and boring endgame. That is the near-fatal flaw in it's game design. If you are going to have such a boring endgame you need to stretch out the leveling up process a lot longer than they did. And rather you feel FFXI and LOTRO were boring at launch or not is irrelevant. The point is it had enough content to keep you busy AT LAUNCH for a lot longer than a month. Where as on SWTOR, it's barely been a month and I"m already maxed level and bored to death. That is my point. And I found SWTOR fun too, WHILE I had things to do.... Then I guess mileage will vary. I have yet to run out of things to do. I suppose being in a large and active guild helps. You have dailies, Operations, PvP , crafting, gearing, exploring, etc. To be honest, this is the first time I have found an MMO to be "fun" in a long time...and I have pretty much tried them all. To each their own I guess...but I do have to disagree that there is a "fatal-flaw" with TOR's endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedgyth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Pretty much this. ToR is off to a great start but people can't keep asking why there isn't an armory or cross server arena. These things will likely come in time. It's not really that. I played WoW at European release, so the game was only a few months old and I enjoyed it for years, I played WaR, Aion, and Rift and I enjoyed them all for at least a year - certainly the first 3-6 months I had a blast. SWOTR is the first MMO game where after just 4-5 weeks I was bored and not having fun..... I am holding out for something to happen, but I cannot see what they can realistically do that will change the fundamentals of this game. They made a ultra easy, story driven co-op game that you cannot help think should have costs £30. I log in, do dailies and smile at all the Star Wars element, at that point fine, but it's actually just playing on my ingrained fondness of Star Wars, as I think about what I am going to actually do I remember how damned boring the game is. I will never tire of light sabers or the sound of Tie fighters - but TOR.... that I am tired of already, I just prey for something to happen to salvage this game. Edited February 10, 2012 by Aedgyth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Look, I am not going to say that TOR is perfect...far from it. In fact, no MMO should ever be considered "perfect" less the developers get complacent and stop making changes and adding new features/content. But this notion that the game has to fail because it doesn't have all the features and content that you want right out the gate is silly at best, and harmful to the entire genre at worst. What would have happened if this attitude persisted during WoWs launch? The game would never become what it did today. And what about EvE, or EQ, or any other MMO that was launched back in the hey-day of MMO launches when people actually knew what an MMO was and what it meant to play one (and had, you know, patience). Yes, we need to scream and yell about needed bug fixes, and more features, and new content. But pointing fingers and giving up is not going to accomplish anything. It is ultimately counter-productive. If you don't like TOR because it's just not the game for you, fair enough. But to simply come on here and say "TOR HAS FAILED MAKE YOUR TIME YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE" is pointless. Provide constructive criticism and provide positive feedback and change will come. BW is listening, whether you want to believe that or not. -nods- I agree with you. Yet, I see when people "yell and scream" about the issues that are important to them, you get threads like this telling them to get past it, no game is perfect. It can't really go both ways. People are going to complain, because no game is perfect. That's not the issue really, I see it more as people have a hard time accepting that others find fault in a game they love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deirhese Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No one asked for a perfect launch. You are misinterpreting the complaints. combat logs a functional AH macros UI customization THESE are things that have been in all MMO's since ever and the fact that they are either non existent at release or poorly implemented is what is driving people away. Bioware dropped the ball on the basics. Do people actually use WoW's combat logs (getting attacked by 3 people for example makes it impossible to read when the text is scrolling fast) or just the recount addon that sums it up in nice bars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudou Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Then I guess mileage will vary. I have yet to run out of things to do. I suppose being in a large and active guild helps. You have dailies, Operations, PvP , crafting, gearing, exploring, etc. To be honest, this is the first time I have found an MMO to be "fun" in a long time...and I have pretty much tried them all. To each their own I guess...but I do have to disagree that there is a "fatal-flaw" with TOR's endgame. TOR's endgame is weak. Gear drops faster than anything I've seen before. At this rate I will have my main and two alts fully geared in a month or two... if I play that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Pretty much this. ToR is off to a great start but people can't keep asking why there isn't an armory or cross server arena. These things will likely come in time. yep gota build the foundation, before the walls go up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudou Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Do people actually use WoW's combat logs (getting attacked by 3 people for example makes it impossible to read when the text is scrolling fast) or just the recount addon that sums it up in nice bars? I tend to view combat logs in all PvP games to see what just killed me, where I am failing in damage/healing and which of my moves are the best. Also helps when trying to get PROOF that certain builds are too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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