People need to realize....

[Erasimus]

WOW was crap at launch? The engine was pretty damn impressive at launch tbh, very polished. They had some gameplay bugs, mainly exploits, but who doesn't.

 

You have to be joking, right? I played WoW from release. Sever crashes, locked out of instances, bugged encounters, enormous lag, on and on and on. It was so bad at times they actually extended our game time a few times to compensate for not being able to play for extended periods of time. Patches days were so bad that my raiding guild didn't schedule anything until at least 2 days after each patch. Blizzard "We are aware of the inability of players to connect and are investigating...."

 

LOL, polished launch, you must be eating magic mushrooms. I love WoW and have played it for 7 years, but the launch was extremely buggy and the bugs/problems continued for years. It has gotten much better over the last few expansions, but bugs problems, exploits still pop up frequently and they've been tweaking it for a long long time.

[JeremyDale]

You have to be joking, right? I played WoW from release. Sever crashes, locked out of instances, bugged encounters, enormous lag, on and on and on. It was so bad at times they actually extended our game time a few times to compensate for not being able to play for extended periods of time. Patches days were so bad that my raiding guild didn't schedule anything until at least 2 days after each patch. Blizzard "We are aware of the inability of players to connect and are investigating...."

 

LOL, polished launch, you must be eating magic mushrooms. I love WoW and have played it for 7 years, but the launch was extremely buggy and the bugs/problems continued for years. It has gotten much better over the last few expansions, but bugs problems, exploits still pop up frequently and they've been tweaking it for a long long time.

 

Who cares what WoW was like at launch. IT IS IRRELEVANT!!

[Atamosk]

No.

 

Not just no, an emphatic no.

 

 

This is not 2004. This is 2012. This is a triple A release from a huge company where no expense was spared in making the game. Some of the missing features are inexcusable, and some of the bugs are ridiculous in nature (WZ's not giving victories for example)

 

I'm not going to give them a pass because "it was just released" and neither should you.

 

all i have to say is fully voice acted

/thread

[KuusouRumba]

all i have to say is fully voice acted

/thread

 

Innovayshun

[Goraxxus]

I'm still enjoying SWTOR, but when we're evaluating the game and our own enjoyment of it, given the fact that most people aren't willing to pay more than one subscription fee each month, shouldn't this game be asked to stand up to its current and future competitors (Wow, D3, GW2), regardless of how much more established those competitors may be? I think so.

[Atamosk]

You have to be joking, right? I played WoW from release. Sever crashes, locked out of instances, bugged encounters, enormous lag, on and on and on. It was so bad at times they actually extended our game time a few times to compensate for not being able to play for extended periods of time. Patches days were so bad that my raiding guild didn't schedule anything until at least 2 days after each patch. Blizzard "We are aware of the inability of players to connect and are investigating...."

 

LOL, polished launch, you must be eating magic mushrooms. I love WoW and have played it for 7 years, but the launch was extremely buggy and the bugs/problems continued for years. It has gotten much better over the last few expansions, but bugs problems, exploits still pop up frequently and they've been tweaking it for a long long time.

 

 

haha i agree, played wow since launce, lets be honest it was not a perfect game, but was fun and hard. also the paladin class was probably the worst class in the game in terms of usefulness

 

our goal in raids were to go half way into hour healing talent treee, throw the rest of the points away and buff people every 5 minutes. so after every pull essentially. and we couldnt tank despite having a tanking tree and our dps was litereally completely dependent on procs. (seal of command if i remember coreectly.) we had no attack buttons besides judgement. that was the one button we could press to do stuff in out "dps" tree. you were completely gear and group dependent.

 

but hey it was still fun the class was broken but had its moments and was still great to play ahaha.

 

so i dont mind the bugs. if anything enjoy them wile they last and the game becomes very homogonized because everone wants everything.

 

not all the bugs like the crappy ones but the unique classes and stuff

[ShaftyMcShaft]

Sound like a battered wife. You get sold a broken, incomplete game and you want to blame yourself for not "giving them time."

[Erasimus]

Who cares what WoW was like at launch. IT IS IRRELEVANT!!

 

It is relavant when people distort the facts and say "Even WoW 7 years ago had a cleaner launch" which is hogwash.

 

SWTOR has had one of the cleaner launches of the MMOs I've tried over the last 7 years. Rift was a bit cleaner, but then Rift didn't keep my interest past a week or so.

 

 

Bottom Line is - Are you enjoying the game or not? If you are then make constructive suggestions on improving the game to make it better. There are issues and improvements I'd like to see because I do enjoy the game and would like to see it improve.

 

I've tried many MMOs including AION, Rift, Warhammer, LoTR, GW, etc. Only WoW and now SWTOR have been able to keep my attention past a few weeks so SWTOR has done something right or I wouldn't still be here

 

(P.S. I'm not even a big Star Wars fan and the science fiction slant is far less appealing than the D&D slant of WoW to me, but to my surprise I'm having a blast playing.)

[Mxconway]

all i have to say is fully voice acted

/thread

 

/roll

 

/thread

[owenthorn]

not really

 

not fully voiced acted, some things are, some aren't, voice acting isn't innovative, been done before, wow even had runs added that had voice acting through out the run, before swtor was released, so no, the game isn't revolutionary, innovative what ever adjective you want to insert

 

this game had 5 years to see what others were doing and didn't add what in 2012 are considered standard things

 

do I like SW, yes, am I hoping the game massively improves, yes, am I rage quitting over the poor condition the game is in, no

[KuusouRumba]

haha i agree, played wow since launce, lets be honest it was not a perfect game, but was fun and hard. also the paladin class was probably the worst class in the game in terms of usefulness

 

our goal in raids were to go half way into hour healing talent treee, throw the rest of the points away and buff people every 5 minutes. so after every pull essentially. and we couldnt tank despite having a tanking tree and our dps was litereally completely dependent on procs. (seal of command if i remember coreectly.) we had no attack buttons besides judgement. that was the one button we could press to do stuff in out "dps" tree. you were completely gear and group dependent.

 

but hey it was still fun the class was broken but had its moments and was still great to play ahaha.

 

so i dont mind the bugs. if anything enjoy them wile they last and the game becomes very homogonized because everone wants everything.

 

not all the bugs like the crappy ones but the unique classes and stuff

 

Not even remotely true. Paladins were far better than shamans. Salvation was one of the abilities (The other being fear ward) that gave alliance a HUGE advantage over Horde. Paladins could also destroy warriors and rogues with a reckoning build in PvP.

[Erasimus]

haha i agree, played wow since launce, lets be honest it was not a perfect game, but was fun and hard. also the paladin class was probably the worst class in the game in terms of usefulness

 

our goal in raids were to go half way into hour healing talent treee, throw the rest of the points away and buff people every 5 minutes. so after every pull essentially. and we couldnt tank despite having a tanking tree and our dps was litereally completely dependent on procs. (seal of command if i remember coreectly.) we had no attack buttons besides judgement. that was the one button we could press to do stuff in out "dps" tree. you were completely gear and group dependent.

 

but hey it was still fun the class was broken but had its moments and was still great to play ahaha.

 

so i dont mind the bugs. if anything enjoy them wile they last and the game becomes very homogonized because everone wants everything.

 

not all the bugs like the crappy ones but the unique classes and stuff

 

The comments on the Paladin class in Vanilla made me smile :-) I played a Priest sometimes healing and sometimes shadow. I remember picking a herb in felwood next to a pally. He yelled at me for ninja'ing the herb while he was fighting, my comment "Don't worry, it will probably respawn before you finish killing the mob."

[Hypernetic]

Not even remotely true. Paladins were far better than shamans. Salvation was one of the abilities (The other being fear ward) that gave alliance a HUGE advantage over Horde. Paladins could also destroy warriors and rogues with a reckoning build in PvP.

 

Fear ward was a dwarf priest racial and shamans had tremor totem which was MUCH better.

[freddiez]

Sound like a battered wife. You get sold a broken, incomplete game and you want to blame yourself for not "giving them time."

 

That's the very first thing I thought of when I see these types of posts lol... oh he's not like that when we're alone. Give him a chance!

Edited February 10, 2012 by freddiez

[JeremyDale]

It is relavant when people distort the facts and say "Even WoW 7 years ago had a cleaner launch" which is hogwash.

 

SWTOR has had one of the cleaner launches of the MMOs I've tried over the last 7 years. Rift was a bit cleaner, but then Rift didn't keep my interest past a week or so.

 

 

Bottom Line is - Are you enjoying the game or not? If you are then make constructive suggestions on improving the game to make it better. There are issues and improvements I'd like to see because I do enjoy the game and would like to see it improve.

 

I've tried many MMOs including AION, Rift, Warhammer, LoTR, GW, etc. Only WoW and now SWTOR have been able to keep my attention past a few weeks so SWTOR has done something right or I wouldn't still be here

 

(P.S. I'm not even a big Star Wars fan and the science fiction slant is far less appealing than the D&D slant of WoW to me, but to my surprise I'm having a blast playing.)

 

Yes I know you were responding specifically to claims about WoW. I was just trying to make a broader more important point.

 

I'm glad you are enjoying SWTOR. I did too...until I hit level 50. This game has the least entertaining "endgame" I've ever encountered. Even WoW has it beat, and that's just sad.

 

The only one of those MMORPGs I played long enough to reach endgame besides WoW was LoTR, and just let me say that game has a gazillion more things to do at the end than this game does.

[Erasimus]

Not even remotely true. Paladins were far better than shamans. Salvation was one of the abilities (The other being fear ward) that gave alliance a HUGE advantage over Horde. Paladins could also destroy warriors and rogues with a reckoning build in PvP.

 

I Vanilla WoW raiding the primary purpose of our paladins was to sacrifice themselves to keep the priests alive to heal the tank(s). Oh, and any druid with the gall to use their mana regen on themselves instead of a priest was likely to get kicked from the raid

Edited February 10, 2012 by Erasimus

[Fardarter]

The real concern about this game for me isn't lack of polish its the perceived lack of TOOLS to bring about said polish. The patch process has been sluggish, problems said to be fixed have persisted, the lack of HUGE patches to address multiple issues concern me. In my mind it points to the lack of tools to make changes without screwing everything else up. I read an interview with one of the developers of Vanguard and essentially he said that it was a lack of tools that prevented them from doing there job well. Without the right tools you can't fix anything quickly and effectively. I hope that's not the case here but I haven't seen anything that convinces me it not.

[Morkhaine]

all i have to say is fully voice acted

/thread

 

That most people space-bar though.

/thread

[Erasimus]

The real concern about this game for me isn't lack of polish its the perceived lack of TOOLS to bring about said polish. The patch process has been sluggish, problems said to be fixed have persisted, the lack of HUGE patches to address multiple issues concern me. In my mind it points to the lack of tools to make changes without screwing everything else up. I read an interview with one of the developers of Vanguard and essentially he said that it was a lack of tools that prevented them from doing there job well. Without the right tools you can't fix anything quickly and effectively. I hope that's not the case here but I haven't seen anything that convinces me it not.

 

This is a valid concern, but I don't know if it is true or not. Time will tell. In many cases I think they've tried to roll out changes too quickly. This happend in WoW from time to time, they roll out a patch to address a bad problem only to have it make it worse or have it cause an unanticipated side effect.

[Erasimus]

That most people space-bar though.

/thread

 

Unwarranted assumption I've seen just as many posts from people that like the voice acting, I do, as those that don't. Unless they put up a poll no one will know for sure.

[LordSatoh]

This is not the case at all. You are confusing standards of the genre with "inferior". To attempt to launch a completed MMORPG, and both declare and end its production as a "finished product" would be suicide. They would not even gain investors to begin with.

 

You are, as has been done so often on these boards, confusing genres. Looking at one and judging it by another. In short, you are judging an entire baseball franchise based on the first inning of the first game.

 

What is wrong with you people??

You are paying money. EXPECT AND DEMAND or else you will be getting subpar crap cause they know you'll pay anyway.

 

But then again. I bet you're spending your moms $$ to play so why would you care.

 

And no one here wants finished product. We just want the basic standard without game breaking issues which are topped with continuos lies of being fixed while they are not! Missing nerfs in patch notes are another cookies.

 

You people need brain surgery and start to *********** expect perfection. It's the only way of progression!

Edited February 10, 2012 by LordSatoh

[otakuon]

I think people have gotten so used to joining an MMO (aka WoW) after it has already been out for a few years that they have no concept of what playing an MMO at launch is all about and sticking with it while the game and community is built up. If any of you were around for the launch of games like Ultima Online, Everquest, and even WoW, you will know what I am talking about. Yet, TOR still has more features and is less buggy then any of those games were at launch. The very fact that servers remained stable during the entire launch start-up proves that this game is definitely a modern MMO and has learned from the past mistakes of others.

 

This is an exciting opportunity for all of us to start fresh and help shape a game as it grows. BW is a very receptive company and want to make a game that caters to its players. Why do you think bug fixing is their top priority right now? And yet, they are still pushing forward with releasing new content and features. A game like TOR is an incredibly complex game and is bound to have bugs caused by situations that never occurred during game testing because there were never the numbers of players playing it as there are now. Every game will have bugs because of this. It is impossible to detect every single possible bug in a game until release and some will go unnoticed until just the right combination of variables occurs. As bugs are found, they will be fixed. In fact, many of the "major" bugs have already been corrected.

 

Look...I get it that as a whole, gamers have become more jaded and pessimistic and don't have the attention spans that we used to have because we are used to getting a "quick fix" because we have a plethora of choices out there to stimulate us and satisfying our needs. But at some point we have to change this attitude and realize that no game is going to be perfect 100% at launch or live up to our unrealistic expectations. There is already more content in TOR then any other game that I can think of at its release, and there will only be more to come.

 

If we continue to fall into the trap of thinking that the next MMO is going to have every feature we want at launch and then give up on it after only a few days after launch because it is not as feature rich as we want, then the entire MMO genre will die out and all that will be left is Farmville...which according to the "experts" IS the future of gaming. Let's prove them wrong!

[PanikSpreder]

Sigh. These comparisons are not valid.

 

How big is a software development crew? What do they consist of? Mostly programmers and maybe some graphic artists/video production.

 

Compare this to a video game, and an MMO at that. Microsoft Word and video games cannot be compared. The game engine along is probably twice the size than Word's entire programming. You also have dozens of graphic artists, sound engineers, composers, video creators, programmers, and so on.

 

Here is why the WoW, or any MMO that has been out for a while, cannot be compared to this game:

• Blizzard has been working CONTINUOUSLY on WoW for over a decade, while ToR has been in development for less than half of that.
  
• During that decade, Blizzard managed to get up to 12 million players. These 12 million players have been submitting bug reports, advice, criticism, suggestions, and whatever for a long time.
  
• ToR costed 300 million to make (I am using the highest estimate here), while the entire World of Warcraft project has costed Blizzard BILLIONS.
  
• Because WoW has 12 million subscribers, and probably has made a massive profit over the years, they are able to afford top notch customer service, more programmers, and so on.
  

 

Finally someone that gets it. Its basically a race where the newcomers have to start building the basics when everybody else is already on the track. They might not win the current race, but they get better for each iteration.

[JeremyDale]

I think people have gotten so used to joining an MMO (aka WoW) after it has already been out for a few years that they have no concept of what playing an MMO at launch is all about and sticking with it while the game and community is built up. !

 

Nope.

 

I played two other MMORPGs at launch. FFXI and LOTRO, and both of these games FROM LAUNCH kept me entertained and busy for a lot longer than a month.

 

This game has a very tragic and flawed combination for any game, launch or not. And that is an overly breif leveling session followed by a shallow and boring endgame.

 

This has NOTHING to do with it's launch. It's just a near fatal-flaw in game design, and people like you need to stop trying to make excuses for it by continuously harking back to other games at launch. It's just lame excuse making. Period.

Edited February 10, 2012 by JeremyDale

[KuusouRumba]

Fear ward was a dwarf priest racial and shamans had tremor totem which was MUCH better.

 

Every priest in a progression raiding guild was dwarf. Tremor was notoriously buggy and didn't save Onyxia from cleaving your raid when your tank got feared. Undead warriors were so prevalent because of WOTF for fears on Ony, Magmadar, Nefarian, Bug trio in AQ, ect.