So Nerf to Surge will make the most OP class even stronger!!!!

[biowareftw]

All the other falsims aside this one is just a big flat out NO...

 

I don't know what kind of powertechs, juggers, tankassas, merc healers, sorc healers and ops healers are running around in your game but last I checked they were a major pain in the a** to kill. Unless you are buff stacking and have a bazillion of interrupts (which you don't unless you're annihilation marauder / watchman sentinel) there is no way in hell you will kill an equally geared player of any of those speccs before the 1v1 turns into a group situation unless you are all alone on ilum.

 

Besides have you forgotten about all the defensive cooldowns other classes have that sorcs don't ? We have no dmg reducing shields apart from static barrier which can be bursted through quite easily. We have no Vanish to drop out of combat for heals or just to get away. We have no "drop all the dots on you" ability nor anything that flat out negates dmg for a certain amount of time.

 

Sorcs are extremely squishy once Static Barrier is gone and Dark Heal may be a fast cast but drains force power faster than you can type "omg" in your chat while killing a drained sorc...

 

And again...you have shown your inexpertise of this class by stating that alacrity isn't bad on hybrids...which it is..very much so...extremely in fact...but nvm...I'm outta here I have wasted enough of my time trying to explain something you don't want to see...

 

I slaughter tanks as annihilation/watchman. The only time they last as long as a hybrid sorc/sage is if they have every single defensive cooldown up (which are LONG cooldowns).

 

With a decently played sorc/sage you are going to be mezzed when you break their shield. You CAN'T trinket this because you have to trinket the stun. You are going to be knocked back. By this time they usually have shield 2 up. You invis here. Now you are stunned (trinket). Eventually they die. There is also a forcespeed/line of site in here and an assist train unless it is a one on one. A good one will heal on knockbacks/line of site.

 

Do you beat them? Yup. Are they absolutely the hardest target to focus fire (knock multiple melee back and or AUTOMATICALLY CC THEM WHEN SHIELD BREAKS). Yup.

 

If I was playing against myself. It would take at least 30 seconds to bring me down on a marauder/sent and that is a one on one. With line of site (which is EVERYWHERE in a warzone), longer. Add to that you CC them during rebuke and you can damn near kill them solo. If they are not solo? Then you have the advantage as they are far and away the best warzone spec in this game.

 

Sage/sorc and squishy is a misnomer. If you want squishy target a dps specced guardian/SW without defensive cooldowns. I can drop them in seconds. Same with a sentinel/marauder without rebuke up or an assassin/shadow without cooldowns.

 

The hybrid spec simply does everything too well. It is that simple.

Edited February 10, 2012 by biowareftw

[E_c_c_e]

What lie? That you not as dependent on a stat as other classes? That you can easily lead dmg without it? Both are true. I have seen sage/sorcs on my realm players hit 700-900 k with alacrity enhances. I guarantee they would kick the !@%$ out of you as a player without wearing half their gear.

 

As I said Haste is never bad on a ranged class.

 

On the other hand? A class like scoundrel/op? Without surge? They are absolute trash.

 

What part about this don't you understand. Other classes have INSTANT melee attacks. They don't have channeled attacks. They don't have cast time nukes. Yes you have instant procs. Yes you heal yourself. Yes haste reduces the cast time on both.

 

You can spin this however you want. Fact is, all other classes are getting nerfed more then you by it, some SEVERELY nerfed.

 

Keep grasping at straws though.

 

Just for the lolz

 

Nice trolling - you got me again with the sheer power of the troll

 

Alacrity on a class that has ONE channeled ability that doesn't benefit much from alacrity at all (even if you have ridiculous amounts of it the channeled time of FL gets down by maybe 0.2-0.3 which is useless since you have Barrage that cuts the channeled time way better than alacrity ever could)

 

and again...you have no idea what you're talking about do you ?

 

Hybrid Sorcs work pretty much with instants only, lemme break it down for you:

 

- Death field is instant

 

- Wrath + Crushing Darkness is instant - you never use CD without Wrath

 

- Shock (+double procc shock) is instant

 

- Affliction is instant

 

- Wrath + Chain Lightning is instant - again if you ever see someone casting a CL he's doing it wrong UNLESS he tries to burst down someone with a cast CL + Shock / Death Field but then again the dmg from a CL without Wrath is rather meh so yeah...

 

- Wrath + Lightning Strike would be instant if ever I would use it - which I don't since I have chain lightning

 

The only abilites that slightly benefit from Alacrity are Force Lightning (which I have to stress again doesn't benefit greatly from it even if you have tremendous amounts thereof) and our heals...However, this does NOT justify ANY alacrity on our gear since power + crit + surge HUGELY exceed Alacrity in usefulness in ANY kind of situation...

 

but keep on trolling dude

 

I'm outta here for good

 

 

P.S. It's Line of SIGHT since you go out of the line of SIGHT of the player in order to avoid dmg but hey you are pro you know your stuff right ?

Edited February 10, 2012 by E_c_c_e

[Delekii]

I hate to tell you this but anyone not stacking haste/alacrity on any caster in any MMO?

 

Is an idiot. The faster you cast your channel the more procs you get. Dots tick faster.

 

Oh yeah...heals cast faster as well. Since they are the only hybrid that can offheal worth a damn? Yeah...

 

If you stack haste in this game you are *********** retarded.

[QiBao]

Im confused..

 

See in the thread you linked you complained about tanks being OP

 

You complained about Tracer Missile being OP

 

and Now Sages/Sorcs.

 

 

You have to be the most persistant Troll ever...I tip my hat to you sir..

 

Also if you keep raging your gonna have high blood pressure, that could prove fatal for your health..

 

God forbid you make any of us happy

 

He seems to be a very persistent troll. I agree about that particular hybrid spec, but wow what a terrible messenger. No wonder people in beta didn't like him.

[Tumri]

The hybrid spec simply does everything too well. It is that simple.

 

While I disagree that this Surge change will somehow effect Sorcerers less I had to post for this comment. This is exactly what's unbalancing Sorcs at present. See my sig.

[biowareftw]

Just for the lolz

 

Nice trolling - you got me again with the sheer power of the troll

 

Alacrity on a class that has ONE channeled ability that doesn't benefit much from alacrity at all (even if you have ridiculous amounts of it the channeled time of FL gets down by maybe 0.2-0.3 which is useless since you have Barrage that cuts the channeled time way better than alacrity ever could)

 

and again...you have no idea what you're talking about do you ?

 

Hybrid Sorcs work pretty much with instants only, lemme break it down for you:

 

- Death field is instant

 

- Wrath + Crushing Darkness is instant - you never use CD without Wrath

 

- Shock (+double procc shock) is instant

 

- Affliction is instant

 

- Wrath + Chain Lightning is instant - again if you ever see someone casting a CL he's doing it wrong UNLESS he tries to burst down someone with a cast CL + Shock / Death Field but then again the dmg from a CL without Wrath is rather meh so yeah...

 

- Wrath + Lightning Strike would be instant if ever I would use it - which I don't since I have chain lightning

 

The only abilites that slightly benefit from Alacrity are Force Lightning (which I have to stress again doesn't benefit greatly from it even if you have tremendous amounts thereof) and our heals...However, this does NOT justify ANY alacrity on our gear since power + crit + surge HUGELY exceed Alacrity in usefulness in ANY kind of situation...

 

but keep on trolling dude

 

I'm outta here for good

 

 

P.S. It's Line of SIGHT since you go out of the line of SIGHT of the player in order to avoid dmg but hey you are pro you know your stuff right ?

 

And this has to do what with you being less screwed over by the change then other classes?

 

Nothing. Which is why you go on personal attacks. You have abilities that can benefit from alacrity. Other classes have nothing. You have to stack less accuracy then other classes.

 

Bottom line? You are getting a free stat (however crappy you make it out to be) while other classes are getting flat out screwed with the change. What the hell are they going to put in those slots with the change? How does alacrity help a melee class?

 

Keep up the offense brah. Attack, deny, attack, attack, personal attacks, and correct spelling. Bottom line? every AC in this game just got more nerfed then sage/sorc.

 

You can spin it however you want. It doesn't change the facts.

[Acyu]

And this has to do what with you being less screwed over by the change then other classes?

 

Nothing. Which is why you go on personal attacks. You have abilities that can benefit from alacrity. Other classes have nothing. You have to stack less accuracy then other classes.

 

Bottom line? You are getting a free stat (however crappy you make it out to be) while other classes are getting flat out screwed with the change. What the hell are they going to put in those slots with the change? How does alacrity help a melee class?

 

Keep up the offense brah. Attack, deny, attack, attack, personal attacks, and correct spelling. Bottom line? every AC in this game just got more nerfed then sage/sorc.

 

You can spin it however you want. It doesn't change the facts.

 

So first it's "all good casters go alacrity," and now it's "well you still benefit from it."

 

Come on man, try harder.

[biowareftw]

He seems to be a very persistent troll. I agree about that particular hybrid spec, but wow what a terrible messenger. No wonder people in beta didn't like him.

 

I am crushed. I was looking for friends in an MMO (LOL). I also heard this is the place to find girls.

 

I cared about balance in this game, not being stupidly OP with a dumbed down shadow priest that I played years ago (actually surprised "facemelting" hasn't made it's way into SWTOR lingo for Sorcs). If I wanted to be OP after playing beta? I would have rolled a hybrid sorc/sage.

 

The personal attacks all came on the other side first, as did calling me bad. I could be like them and report them, but you see...I really don't care. I am not a little kid in kindergarten who is going to report them to the teacher.

 

Just like beta. You post a screenshot of you doing better then them on the same class? They attack you with "real life" comments. You beat them on another class? They call you OP. It is stupid to even argue with them.

 

Wanting them to like me? Really? The last thing I want to do is make friends with the majority of the people that play any MMO. There are some exceptions, and people that can actually joke around, and do things besides theorycraft in guild chat. For the most part?MMO players are some of the most irritating people on earth. I already have RL friends and the few that do play MMO's? All went back to WoW and said things like "ranged stunlock" awesome. They were good players they just found the pvp really bad, the resolve system lacking, and the skill factor non existent.

 

The people I met in beta were among the worst I have ever seen. Want to know how things like shadowfrost DK's get outside of beta? Those beta testers said the class was underpowered...

 

Same thing in this game.

[Acyu]

What lie? That you not as dependent on a stat as other classes? That you can easily lead dmg without it? Both are true. I have seen sage/sorcs on my realm players hit 700-900 k with alacrity enhances. I guarantee they would kick the !@%$ out of you as a player without wearing half their gear.

 

As I said Haste is never bad on a ranged class.

 

On the other hand? A class like scoundrel/op? Without surge? They are absolute trash.

 

What part about this don't you understand. Other classes have INSTANT melee attacks. They don't have channeled attacks. They don't have cast time nukes. Yes you have instant procs. Yes you heal yourself. Yes haste reduces the cast time on both.

 

You can spin this however you want. Fact is, all other classes are getting nerfed more then you by it, some SEVERELY nerfed.

 

Keep grasping at straws though.

 

700-900K has nothing to do with alacrity. It has to do with Voidstar.

 

Alacrity enhances are default in BM gears and some Champion gears, only players that want to min/max replace them with surge enhances. And those players are a small percentage. Most people just don't care that alacrity is many times crappier than surge.

 

I don't know why you keep trying to force alacrity on sorcerers. We don't want it. Make us benefit 0% from alacrity and give us all surge. We would LOVE it. PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE make us dependent on surge. PLEASE. Itemize our gears with surge. OMG PLEASE!

 

The surge nerf, which is minimal as already explained by theorycrafts (~3-5% decrease), hits sorcerers just as hard.

[Adzzy]

Still more than Shadows/Sins.

 

no, they don't, they get a +health % (which is vastly inferior than its wow counterpart) and -dmg %, neither which is overly great when you're specced for damage, as you take a lot of damage and your health isnt that high.

 

compared to force speed, force shroud and force cloak, no its not really close.

 

No dps class survives long under focus fire, you're looking at 3s vs maybe 3.5, but the escapes are light years ahead.

[biowareftw]

So first it's "all good casters go alacrity," and now it's "well you still benefit from it."

 

Come on man, try harder.

 

Correction. I said in MMO's haste is never a bad thing on a caster. While it might not be as good in this game? It is still better then nothing, which is what other classes will have.

 

In other MMO's haste is the BEST stat on casters.

 

Let me put it to you this way. I can play a hybrid specced sorc/sage with standard enhances (haste) and do more dmg with an easier playstyle and more survival then any class in this game that is decked out with crit surge enhances.

 

How do I know this? I played multiple classes. I had to TRY to die on a sorc/sage as a hybrid spec. They simply have too many outs, too much CC, and are very hard to focus fire unless you are fighting against a premade.

 

The only class you can do as much dmg as a sorc/sage (overall) is a commando/merc and that pretty much requires you to be fighting against horrid players that all stand in aoes. Marauder/Sent can come close but has a much harder playstyle and most sent/maraduders are downright bad.

 

With this change all melee specs will be MUCH WORSE then a watchman/annihilation marauder/sent and a hybrid specced sorc, other then tanks/heals.

 

I play a sent. Why should I care? Cus people are leaving the game left and right. I mean if you want the game to fail? You don't care about other classes and the dev team ticking off the entire playerbase outside one AC (two if you count good sent/marauders who don't mind other classes getting nerfed).

 

Done with this thread though. Have enough account warnings for one night lol.

Edited February 10, 2012 by biowareftw

[Telaan]

Alacrity will be useful and is useful (especially on long casts where it scales up). Noone is forcing you to spam one button and only wait for procs. You are just a dime a dozen player that does it.

 

Add to that sorc/sage is the least dependent AC on crit/surge in this game. Everyone else either has to stack a ton of accuracy or is more dependent on the stat then you.

 

So after the patch you get a stat that helps you, while others get stats that are useless.

 

Every class in this game minus sorc/sage just got nerfed. It isn't hard to figure out. Btw your heal gets shorter with haste as well. Then again you probably don't heal yourself either.

 

Wow, you are either a bad troll or a bad player. You spend all day QQing about sorc/sage, yet have NO idea how they're played. Have you ever even logged in to the game? I'm convinced you haven't and thought you could be part of the cool kids bandwagon club by raging about sorc/sage.

[Yoritomo]

biowareftw is full of rage, but he is right about the sorc hybrid spec.

[Stopsight]

Correction. I said in MMO's haste is never a bad thing on a caster. While it might not be as good in this game? It is still better then nothing, which is what other classes will have.

 

In other MMO's haste is the BEST stat on casters.

 

Let me put it to you this way. I can play a hybrid specced sorc/sage with standard enhances (haste) and do more dmg with an easier playstyle and more survival then any class in this game that is decked out with crit surge enhances.

 

How do I know this? I played multiple classes. I had to TRY to die on a sorc/sage as a hybrid spec. They simply have too many outs, too much CC, and are very hard to focus fire unless you are fighting against a premade.

 

The only class you can do as much dmg as a sorc/sage (overall) is a commando/merc and that pretty much requires you to be fighting against horrid players that all stand in aoes. Marauder/Sent can come close but has a much harder playstyle and most sent/maraduders are downright bad.

 

With this change all melee specs will be MUCH WORSE then a watchman/annihilation marauder/sent and a hybrid specced sorc, other then tanks/heals.

 

I play a sent. Why should I care? Cus people are leaving the game left and right. I mean if you want the game to fail? You don't care about other classes and the dev team ticking off the entire playerbase outside one AC (two if you count good sent/marauders who don't mind other classes getting nerfed).

 

Done with this thread though. Have enough account warnings for one night lol.

 

Your blanket statements just dont fly. Haste frequently screwed up rotations in wow.

[biowareftw]

Wow, you are either a bad troll or a bad player. You spend all day QQing about sorc/sage, yet have NO idea how they're played. Have you ever even logged in to the game? I'm convinced you haven't and thought you could be part of the cool kids bandwagon club by raging about sorc/sage.

 

Dot. Hit 1. Hit 2 or 3 on proc. Did I pass the test?

 

Now I am really done with this thread. I mean it is one thing for people to play an overpowered and overplayed (and will be more overplayed when all these people rerolling them hit 50) spec and try to not get it nerfed.

 

It is another thing for people to think this class is in anyways challenging or even fun.

 

You win. Closing IE. Sorc/Sages are extremely challenging. Autofacing is purely skill based. Instant cast and automatic CC takes skill. Ranged stuns take EXTREME skill.

 

Most challenging ranged class ever seen in an MMO. Sentinels/marauders are ez mode.

 

If I made threads like this I would "make friends" with the "don't nerf me brah crowd". Oh well. No sorc/sage friends for me tonight. I am crushed.

Edited February 10, 2012 by biowareftw

[Acyu]

Correction. I said in MMO's haste is never a bad thing on a caster. While it might not be as good in this game? It is still better then nothing, which is what other classes will have.

 

In other MMO's haste is the BEST stat on casters.

 

Let me put it to you this way. I can play a hybrid specced sorc/sage with standard enhances (haste) and do more dmg with an easier playstyle and more survival then any class in this game that is decked out with crit surge enhances.

 

How do I know this? I played multiple classes. I had to TRY to die on a sorc/sage as a hybrid spec. They simply have too many outs, too much CC, and are very hard to focus fire unless you are fighting against a premade.

 

The only class you can do as much dmg as a sorc/sage (overall) is a commando/merc and that pretty much requires you to be fighting against horrid players that all stand in aoes. Marauder/Sent can come close but has a much harder playstyle and most sent/maraduders are downright bad.

 

With this change all melee specs will be MUCH WORSE then a watchman/annihilation marauder/sent and a hybrid specced sorc, other then tanks/heals.

 

I play a sent. Why should I care? Cus people are leaving the game left and right. I mean if you want the game to fail? You don't care about other classes and the dev team ticking off the entire playerbase outside one AC (two if you count good sent/marauders who don't mind other classes getting nerfed).

 

Done with this thread though. Have enough account warnings for one night lol.

 

 

Didn't you say you were done with this thread like.. 5 pages ago?

 

Anyway,

 

I hate to tell you this but anyone not stacking haste/alacrity on any caster in any MMO?

 

Is an idiot

 

You're right, you should stop posting.

[Asnine]

biowareftw,

 

Whatever points you may have had, valid or not, your waffling on the subject of alacrity for sorcs was hilarious, and proved that you have no clue at all about how game mechanics work.

 

 

 

Also, you've been reported for stupidity, as you've wasted both your time typing out huge, long responses trying to defend the multitude of your asinine ideas, and other people's time for having to wade through the troll-fest you created to read about the ramifications of this surge nerf.

[Telaan]

Dot. Hit 1. Hit 2 or 3 on proc. Did I pass the test?

 

Now I am really done with this thread. I mean it is one thing for people to play an overpowered and overplayed (and will be more overplayed when all these people rerolling them hit 50) spec and try to not get it nerfed.

 

It is another thing for people to think this class is in anyways challenging or even fun.

 

You win. Closing IE. Sorc/Sages are extremely challenging. Autofacing is purely skill based. Instant cast and automatic CC takes skill. Ranged stuns take EXTREME skill.

 

Most challenging ranged class ever seen in an MMO. Sentinels/marauders are ez mode.

 

If I made threads like this I would "make friends" with the "don't nerf me brah crowd". Oh well. No sorc/sage friends for me tonight. I am crushed.

 

So much rage over a video game. I doubt anyone cares whether or not you've made any e-friends. But finding some real life ones and walking away from the computer might solve your rage problems a little. Although I, as well as everyone else in this thread, appreciate the laughs provided by your alacrity posts.

[AndrosX]

How are they nerfing surge?

 

Does anybody have a link?

[Windat]

From what I can understand haste in this game does not effect gcd, that alone makes it useless.

[Gonewild]

I hate to tell you this but anyone not stacking haste/alacrity on any caster in any MMO?

 

Is an idiot. The faster you cast your channel the more procs you get. Dots tick faster.

 

Oh yeah...heals cast faster as well. Since they are the only hybrid that can offheal worth a damn? Yeah...

 

Your attempt at sarcasm backfired like an old muffler! I'm going to make this post my new forum sig- it is just that funny!

[Skeloss]

played hybrid spec sorcerer and did above 300k every warzone respeced to madness tree only and I do 300k every warzone too QQ about every tree for sorcerer but only issues are your skills guys

[firesprite_ea]

is it really a nerf?

-- Crit Size % = 50 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SurgeRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.11 ) )

 

---Crit Chance % = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.45 ) )

 

If they are bringing THIS coefficient more in line with the rest (at least that is what i understand from the patch notes) that is actually a buff, not a nerf. At least if i did math correctly.

Edited February 10, 2012 by firesprite_ea

[GeoLager]

Sorcs/sages won't feel this as much because their damage is all but guaranteed.

 

 

Operatives/scoundrels on the other hand that if they don't crit hit like wet noodles having their crits stunted are hurt.

[AndrosX]

What a stupid nerf, although I'll wait till it's on live to see how bad the diminishing returns are.

 

I say healers can heal enough as it is now, nerfing DPS for everyone is only going to make healing more powerful :/

 

And obviously make premades even more powerful because it will take more focusing to take down healers etc.

 

I think this game has far too many important issues (low population, unbalanced factions etc) that should have priority over these issues, not to mention these kind of changes should not be done in a rush and tested properly, it's far too easy to screw up with these changes when you don't test properly (for example, it could happen that healers become too powerful etc).