Radox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As a long time WoW player enduring each end of the spectrum from when there was no battlegrounds and everyone massed at Southshore/Tarren Mill to same server BG's to Cross Server PVP grouping, I reached the conclusion that pvp matching outside your server is bad in the long run. Yes it resolves queue times; and Blizz implemented it for that purpose only. With the benefit of hindsight I think other solutions should be explored first (which i discuss at the end). In terms of same server pvp - there is alot of value in forming rivalries against guilds or specific players on your opp. faction on the same server. It is a fundamental aspect of faction based MMOs that needs to be nurtured not killed like Blizzard did with the battlegroup concept. BioWare needs to go in the other direction and look at enhancing faction rivalries and I think a bounty system would be a good start. Guilds or other players should be able to place a bounty (or reward) on any player to kill members of a particular guild, or just straight out target a specific player. Making guilds and players KoS (kill on sight), adds interesting dynamics to the game. For example: deciding on which guild to join; Who are they at war with? Will I get smashed levelling an alt because my guild is KoS? If i continue to be a ******, how high can i get my bounty? Can I be the Galaxies Most Wanted? It's all good fun and is player created immersion. Who was that guy that ganked you in Tatooine you vowed revenge on. Post a bounty, get them taken out. The target also gets a game mail when the bounty is collected with details on who placed the bounty, and who collected it. This will further stoke the fire into revenge on revenge. See where its going right.... One could earn Most Wanted titles, Bounty Hunter titles, and make a real career of it. The bounty boards at Fleet could have Most Wanted posters or 'last sighted at x town, 3 hours ago' messages. BW could implement crew missions to find players with bounties on their heads and help you track people down. This only works properly if a good level of rivalry can be generated. Same server PvP is the primary mechanism for this IMO. People that "never see the opp. faction when I'm questing" are victims of low server pops. I've played both factions and have identified where BW have tried to engineer open world pvp clashes through quest placement and opposing objectives where Republic have to destroy an item that the Sith mirror quest is trying to protect. It is more of a pop issue than a design issue (although they could design more of it). Firstly we need server pops addressed through server merging, and its more efficient to downsize than link a whole bunch of half empty servers together through some cross server pvp mechanism. Its no good having 100 servers at 10% pop, when you could have 30 servers at 90% pop. They could probably halve the amount of active servers and improve everyones experience. I'd much rather play on a server that is Full than Light, even if sometimes there is a queue, its worth it. The playing experience is very different and it would alleviate boredom for those that can never find groups. I read somewhere that BW's current policy is no cross server pvp. I just hope they stick to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Anything outside your server is bad PVP or PVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickabrack Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Anything outside your server is bad PVP or PVE I agree with this and I like the OP's Bounty Hunter idea. One thing to consider on why they should hold off on merging servers is the Legacy system. People think long and hard over what they want their legacy name to be; merging servers would inevitebly mean people would lose names, both in legacy and they first name too even. Another thing about that is I'm not convinced server merging is needed. Every time I check server levels at night after work (prime time) I never see servers labeled "light" that are in my time zone (west coast). They all range from standard to very heavy, which is very healthy. Edited February 10, 2012 by Brickabrack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyntric Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Everything that the OP suggests only happens in very very small communities. Nothing of which will ever happen in swtor to a meaningful level. Cross server dungeon finders and pvp is needed. It's the truth and people can deny it all day in hopes of creating a perfect community but that will honestly never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeges Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The community doesn't have to be perfect, but I'd prefer a community over what WoW implemented personally. I played on the least populated realm in DAoC on the Gawaine server, Midgard. We were outnumbered over 2-1 but I preferred that to what we got with WoW because the community disintegrated as soon as cross server PvP/PvE was implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I'll second the notion that cross-server PvP is bad; that said, I think it might work for full-group queues, and could allow for those full Op queues that some guilds are looking for. Cross-server solo queue just facilitates AFKing and other trolling/non-participatory activities. Mixed solo/group queue is just barely above cross-server solo queue, and finding an elegant solution to keeping solo queues and group queues segregated without murdering group queue times is possibly the greatest area of innovation for the genre at the moment. Edited February 10, 2012 by Ansultares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itukaaj Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Cross server kills community. Only helps the selfish who need disposable groups. I like that I recognize the guilds and hopefully the other players from the other side. MMO is successful because players feel like they belong to something. Please don't kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seallone Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 yeah it will be bad, sever only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's 830 eastern spent 20 minutes waiting for a PvP que in Ilum. Match ended because not enough players. /cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Even on harbinger, maybe the highest pop server getting a group is like pulling teeth and pvp at 50 is a chore. The community you claim to want doesn't exist even there, let alone the majority of the servers with far less people on them. This community any of you defend exists only in your minds and the guild you're a part of. That's the way it's always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draflorin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 agree and disagree Sometimes i want mindless fast food style pvp and its just not happening for me at lvl50 repub side im getting a WZ every 15-20 mins maybe. Cross server PVP for solo joins and small group joins would be ideal for me to squash in as many pvp bouts in the small amount of time i have to play. However that being said i do like your idea about forming rivalries with other guilds in the opposite faction - there should be a facility to challenge another group of 8 on the same server and have some prearranged pvp - of course we could just go to the area on tattooine and do it manually i suppose but i beleive there is a place for cros server pvp - perhaps just make it solo join only and keep the group join for same server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Cross server kills community. Only helps the selfish who need disposable groups. I like that I recognize the guilds and hopefully the other players from the other side. MMO is successful because players feel like they belong to something. Please don't kill it. Exactly why i will cancel my sub, if Bioware doesn't add the tool, you and your community can stay here and have fun while the rest of us move on to a better game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodulo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Understanding both sides of the coin as a rabbid pvp'er... I don't support the attitude that came with cross-server warzone's (battlegrounds) so I would be of the opposed opinion. With that said I wouldn't be against two options for que's. One to que cross-server and another to que on your own server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Everything that the OP suggests only happens in very very small communities. Nothing of which will ever happen in swtor to a meaningful level. Cross server dungeon finders and pvp is needed. It's the truth and people can deny it all day in hopes of creating a perfect community but that will honestly never happen. Why not have cross server GTN also and have cross server questing. Why just flashpoints or PVP or operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnak Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) It's not just rivalries, i enjoy the fact that i know the skill of certain allies too (especially because im a healer). Of entering a warzone and thinking: "Hey, i know that trooper, he rocks! I'll stick to him" Edited February 10, 2012 by fnak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radox Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's not just rivalries, i enjoy the fact that i know the skill of certain allies too (especially because im a healer). Of entering a warzone and thinking: "Hey, i know that trooper, he rocks! I'll stick to him" Yep, agree. While there are pros and cons as pointed out in this thread, whatever design is chosen needs to consider the long term affects. Most of those in favor of cross server pvp look to be as a result of queue times. Something I probably didn't consider in my OP was faction balance as a contributing factor. I don't play too much imperial, so unless it is in the dead of the night CST - republic tends to have a better time of it with queue times. It reminds of me of that PVP devblog that was released around new years day with some stats quoted that Hutt Ball was the most played WZ. Clearly another symptom of faction imbalance. Nevertheless, I think pops and balance need addressing before they can decide on a good pvp model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuriby Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Boredom is bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristoffbrujah Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I could see your point OP if PVP wasn't in drastic need of more bodies on the medium-low populated servers. Cross-server PVP is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vekkth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Boredom is bad then make a change. cross server pvp/pve is in fact a double edged thing. at first i was very happy with cross server BGs and later with dungeon finder, it was letting me instantly enter with my wife or a couple of friends and spend some time. what i did realize later, that it came at a, i would say, rather terrific price - people stopped to get to know to each other, build rivalries/friendships, started to look upon each other as a tools, a decorations, judging each other by the server tag. This is bad, really. When i played on EU servers, pre cross server anything, i've got some people to know i keep chatting on facebook/gtalk weekly for years! they live all over the world. I know their families, i support them when they are having a divorce, moving to another country, i am happy with them when they get a new car. And all of that because some random chat started in WSG starting zone at some point Crosserver things give you an everyday advantage on spending your time, but in the long run it severely restricts your ability to build relationships, and thats the whole freaking mission of an MMO. to get along with other people. And that really helps with boredom when you need it, in the end. Edited February 10, 2012 by vekkth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 With the benefit of hindsight... You're talking to the wrong developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radox Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I..... Cross-server PVP is necessary. But why is it "necessary". (no flame intended btw) I am trying to understand what drives people to say or think cross server pvp is necessary. Is it actually the queue times? or are there other advantages that I am not aware of? Should the real comment be ".... reducing queue times is necessary" ? Cross server pvp will certainly reduce queue times, but it brings with it a social cancer that ruins any opportunity to expand rivalry and create a new path of gameplay. Opportunity lost. There are alternative ways to reach the same outcome you are after. IMO forget statements like 'we want cross server pvp', and focus on the problem at hand. For example: lets start asking 'reduce pvp queue times' perhaps. That way you are asking BW to solve a valid problem, instead of a black and white decision to make. cross server pvp = yes or no = end of story pvp queue times = creative thinking, innovation, enhancement, leverage lessons learned in other games = better outcome. Edited February 10, 2012 by Radox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Because once server start dying off and waiting hours for PvP is good, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossiah Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Guilds or other players should be able to place a bounty (or reward) on any player to kill members of a particular guild, or just straight out target a specific player. Call me an MMO nub, but this is my first time hearing about an idea like this and it sent chills down my spine. If this ever happens, my god, it would be wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babyduck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree cross server any thing is bad. My server actually feels like a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Everything that the OP suggests only happens in very very small communities. Nothing of which will ever happen in swtor to a meaningful level. Cross server dungeon finders and pvp is needed. It's the truth and people can deny it all day in hopes of creating a perfect community but that will honestly never happen. i can use the same argument against you ... you can deny it all day in hopes of being right but honestly it will never happen either... < - has witnessed a GOOD community become pretty much segregated and disconected because of x server pvp (dont believe me? go log into any of the release servers, mine was alleria, and try to find any old school players, or ask about the good guilds of the opposite faction, i bet you cant find one player that actually knows any of the guilds opposite to his faction, yet i still remember all the guilds that where on our server , that we formed rivalries with , just as an example , i participated opening the AQ doors on our servers, our guild leader was/is one of the few people with bug mounts so yes i know what im talking about) TLDR: i aggree with op , cross realm pvp is bad for the community ,there is ZERO reason to implement cross server pvp given that there is ZERO problems with Q times Edited February 10, 2012 by LaVolpex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts