CrunchyGremlin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I don't know what simpler means in that context. They both require just as much effort to type and read. As you said you agree, so I don't understand what is the negative to using directions that are not open to interpretation. No i said she was right. she was talking about the bomb text saying west or east. It's true it says that. but left is easier to understand when calling incoming. I know that i went left or right out of spawn without having to think about it. However as someone else previously posted... so what. say east or left i should know what you mean either way. Left and right just need no further reference as everything is implied leaving spawn. easier for PUGs. I am going to try it but id wager less people will know what east west means compared to left right. If you want a reeducation campaign then do it. nobody is stopping you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolitoe Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 = If you want a reeducation campaign then do it. nobody is stopping you. That's what the thread is about. So...k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That's what the thread is about. So...k. Negative the thread is a QQ. Go do it if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolitoe Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Negative the thread is a QQ. Go do it if you want to. Agree to disagree. Have the last word. Edited February 10, 2012 by Dolitoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Agree to disagree. By all means, have the last word. I await the change in WZ instructions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayams Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 ... wow. If the people calling out incoming aren't sharp enough to make those calls presuming a fixed oreientaion point by which to relate those directions. That is to say; if they expect the entire allied force to somehow devine what left is relative to the direction they are at that time facing, you can go ahead and comfortably assume you have much bigger problems with that player's ability to help you to victory. First of all, I would have to wonder how a player who calls incoming relative to their current facing (and feels correct in doing so) even managed to install this game or hell, maintain reliable income to finance their playing of it. I've just always taken for granted (and the great majority of replies here seem to back me up on it) that whether one says right or east we all knew what direction was being referred to because we all just implied a universal point of orientation. I never even realized this presented a problem to anyone. The greater problems I've seen are those along the lines of some genius trying to whittle down a tank while a healer spams heals on them through convulsions of laughter, all while my team is circling the drain because of well... That! Issues like ignoring the healers, or chasing some red name tag half way across the map while his buddy skips up and caps the point. If your faction seems to be failing because they lack the basic understanding of an orientation point? You may want to change servers or at least collect those around at least the I.Q of Beavis and Butthead into a guild and run premades. Sounds a guild of at least literate players would be god's among men in that environment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieVega Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) lol at 37 pages Left = Help defend the EDGE base if you currently defend center and it also mean use the LEFT speeder when you spawn. Right = Help defend the EDGE base if you currently defend center and it also mean use the RIGHT speeder when you spawn. How can this be a hard concept to gasp? If someone use West he obviously mean the west side of the map. If someone use Right he obviously mean use the right speeder when you spawn. recap time. 1) There is no "left" or "right" when you use a map to navigate. When refering to a map you use west, north, south, east etc. It is perfectly viable to navigate using a map by turning it "up-side-down" so if you are facing south while reading the map. 2) If you face north you will have west on your left hand side and east on your right hand side. If you face east you will have north to your left hand side and south on your right hand side. If you face south you will have east on your left hand side and west on your right hand side. 3) If your team control the center node and one edge node and you are currently on the center node when someone say "inc 4 left, need help" - you don't even need to know if it is the east or the west base. It is the OTHER base you are not guarding. If you are alive and guarding a point all you need to read is that the other base is in trouble for you to break combat and go there to help. You don't even need directions. 4) If you just spawned you need to know if you should take the RIGHT speeder, the CENTER speeder or the LEFT speeder. 5) When you spawn ande someone say "go east base" you will first have to check the map to figure out if the left speeder or the right speeder will take you to the east base. Most people will just be confused and take the center speeder. Others will take the Right speeder when someone say East base.... EVEN if your ship is located north on the map (and thus you should take the left speeder to reach the east base). Left = Help defend the EDGE base if you currently defend center and it also mean use the LEFT speeder when you spawn. Right = Help defend the EDGE base if you currently defend center and it also mean use the RIGHT speeder when you spawn. /thread Edited February 10, 2012 by ErnieVega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niconogood Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 directions in relation to your alignment after you respawn isnt that confusing.. and its probably faster than have people look at the map and work out where east and west are. I agree with that. As respawn is usually were reinforcements are coming from the simplest way is just to point direction from spawn. left or right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroidan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 ... wow. If the people calling out incoming aren't sharp enough to make those calls presuming a fixed oreientaion point by which to relate those directions. That is to say; if they expect the entire allied force to somehow devine what left is relative to the direction they are at that time facing, you can go ahead and comfortably assume you have much bigger problems with that player's ability to help you to victory. First of all, I would have to wonder how a player who calls incoming relative to their current facing (and feels correct in doing so) even managed to install this game or hell, maintain reliable income to finance their playing of it. I've just always taken for granted (and the great majority of replies here seem to back me up on it) that whether one says right or east we all knew what direction was being referred to because we all just implied a universal point of orientation. I never even realized this presented a problem to anyone. The greater problems I've seen are those along the lines of some genius trying to whittle down a tank while a healer spams heals on them through convulsions of laughter, all while my team is circling the drain because of well... That! Issues like ignoring the healers, or chasing some red name tag half way across the map while his buddy skips up and caps the point. If your faction seems to be failing because they lack the basic understanding of an orientation point? You may want to change servers or at least collect those around at least the I.Q of Beavis and Butthead into a guild and run premades. Sounds a guild of at least literate players would be god's among men in that environment . The problem, from my point of view is that there are a few out there who use left as a synonym for west and right for east. That is the biggest problem out there. All directions rely on first establishing a common orientation. East and West are using the map to determine this orientation (Most people will assume that top is north when no compass is defined) Left and Right are using whatever the common player orientation is. For a WZ this would be starting from spawn. Use whatever method of orientation you choose but do not use Left and Right for map orientation EVER!!! Also someone metioned that most people understand move up, which is a term that uses the players relative position. In most scenarios this is true because it happens with a zerg and a group of players are heading in the same direction thus up is commonly understood as forward in whatever direction we were heading last and fall back is go back the direction we came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 C'mon people. Left and right are subjective. Sometimes people mean left out of the rez point and sometimes they mean left on the map. How about we grow up and use cardinal directions like intelligent adults. Use "INC WEST" so we don't have to decipher your subjective meaning I like "INC TO MY SPOT EVERYONE HURRY". Seen that today, I lol'ed in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayams Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) We can assume that the direction we face at the beginning of the game is North, it's clearly not true North because well, virtual world, laws of magnetism, yadda yadda. Or we can assume that the direction we are facing at the beginning of the game is forward. East and West of "North", or left and right of "forward". I've never had a problem interpreting either term or using them interchangeably, in relation to the game I am playing they become synonymous and it has yet to fail me. If North is synonymous with forward then, by extension, this just becomes an argument of aesthetics. Let's all get down the basic precepts of ff'ing the healers, gaurding cap points, and general team coordination and you guys can call incoming fahrvergnuggen or incoming hoisin sauce for all I care as long as i get the memo about our new terminology. Assuming we are all using the same point of reference to orient ourselves I can easily interchange the terms on the fly, it's a non-issue for me. As I've said, we fail to agree by logical assumption on the point of orientation I think we have much bigger obstacles to victory before they say go. We have 8 greased up monkeys attempting to fornicate a football, symantics isn't going to rescue and organize this impending comedy of errors. We're looking at a dog excrement sandwich for dinner and getting in heated debate over what to call it. While in the mean time the bigger issue is, we're about to go hungry. I don't mean this as an argument. I guess my point is, if we can all agree that left of start is West and right of start is East, there really isn't a discussion to be had. If you get players who can't draw this logical relation in WZ's then they're really just dead weight anyway aren't they? In place of pounding terminology into the heads of millions let's just all agree to the above relative terms and move on to the bigger obstacles to victory in the WZ's. At least if any of you see me in any of your WZ's you can relax on the fact that whether you say left or West I will invariably head in the same direction. Even more importantly, if you call out the name of an opposition healer I will focus fire, CC, and do all i can to nullify them. Also I will not abandon a cap point to chase bait off into the sunset while their stealthed buddy caps behind me, whether the bait heads left, right, east, west or digs a tunnel at his feet and jumps down it ;P. Edited February 10, 2012 by Mayams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNemhauser Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I believe the confusion on the forum might be because republic people are talking with imperial people. From the republic perspective: you have the small indicator with the three turret icons that are initialially grey and can turn green (you have it) or red (enemy has it). you can safely say that on the indicator panel - one is left, one is middle and the last one is right. now, as a republic player - when you look through the window - you will see grass on your left and snow on your right assuming that you would have all speeders, by taking the one that is to the left (while you are facing glass) will take you to the turret that is marked in the small indicator as "left turret". if we assume that the top of the map is north (there is no compass, but common sense dictates that top is north as it usually is on normal maps) then left is west (which is good) NOW, the problem starts for the imperials: on the small indicator you still have left, middle, right turret icons, but in order to reach the left icon - you need to go right after you take the speeder; at that moment - you are moving to the right side but you are actually going to the west turret (so, here right = west). so, the republic people can say "left" without context, but imperials would need to say "right turret if you come from our spawn" or "left turret icon" if they were after west turret. Edited February 10, 2012 by FoxNemhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaManoNera Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Ya, stupid newbs! Don't even use the ingame voice cha-...oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandoration Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 left obviously in relation to the map I would think. Unless you're in voidstar defending then it's the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 In one civil war a guy just said "1st" in chat followed by "1st 1st 1st 1st" and then we lost a point. Apparently he meant the first point we capped? Or something? I don't know... nobody knew what he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrydust Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) We can assume that the direction we face at the beginning of the game is North, Civil War has Empire Facing South. So left is East and Right is West. WE WANT A COMPASS ON OUR MINI MAP would be accurate. I asked several times in beta but I suppose they have more pressing issues. Edited February 10, 2012 by Ferrydust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keebitual Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm a professional Forester. I navigate IRL daily. I know N/S/E/W instinctively wherever I am day or night. What flummoxes me is... Sadly my Monitor faces east and sometimes south. If my monitor faced North it would be easy. I guess what Im saying My awareness of the actual direction I'm facing IRL, clashes with the direction I may be facing in game. That simple extra calculation screws me up... so I often say Inc Left, Inc Right. kind of pathetic ehh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmn Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This thread is hilarious. Dear Cartographers Against Fictional Mislabeling, you are right. But it's irrelevant, because at the end of the day if your communication is not effective -- that is, reaching its intended targets, its function is undermined. And when your goal is to receive reinforcements in a timely fashion (or at all), you communicate in a way that is most likely to achieve that outcome. And that's left/right, no matter how dirty or uncomfortable that makes you feel. You may be willfully obtuse and pretend like left/right could mean anything but the reality is that of spawn is implicit and the labels are widely adopted and used. Would west/east be a better system if understood by everyone? Of course. But at the same time it isn't, because people suck at directions for whatever reason -- for one, many non-native speakers have a hard time remembering which word corresponds to which direction. So you should ask yourself: do you want your team to have better chances of winning or do you simply want to dwell in bitter superiority and expect the unlikely. Stop setting yourself up for disappointment. Realize that the pragmatic road is wisest: to rely on ignorance very rarely lets down. If the internet has not taught you this already, you have not been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayams Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Civil War has Empire Facing South. So left is East and Right is West. WE WANT A COMPASS ON OUR MINI MAP would be accurate. I asked several times in beta but I suppose they have more pressing issues. Thank you, The next time i am communicating directions in relation to tactics with the opposing force i will keep that in mind. Screw it! From now on you get Starboard and Portside out of me and I will drive my campaign for these terms home until everyone has beat there forehead to a bloody pulp... ... bashing it on the BULKHEADS!!!!! Now FALL IN LINE MAGGOTS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Where do we stand on North and South? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetaal Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 left obviously in relation to the map I would think. Unless you're in voidstar defending then it's the opposite. wow... I've seen no better argument FOR east west in the 40 some pages here. Thank you for illustrating how much we need to just say east west all the time and skip the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon-se Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Alderan civil war: from Imp POV, left of the starting point is in fact EAST (so right on the map). As a result, the left speeder takes you to the EAST node. (and vice versa for the right speeder) ...Which is the whole point of using "Left" when you need help at the East base. So that people that spawn use the Left speeder. Directions is only needed for people the spawn. Everyone else are either guarding a point that is already under attack (and should just continue to defend it) or guarding a point that is not under attack (and should move to the OTHER point). If you say East, then a lot of people that spawn will be confused. Some will use the middle speeder. Some will look at the map and try to figure out if the Left or Right speeder will take them to the East base. Many will use the Right speeder (which will take them to the West base). The best way to make people use the Left speeder to help out at the East base is to tell them to "use the Left speeder" or even "Inc 4 L". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 C'mon people. Left and right are subjective. Sometimes people mean left out of the rez point and sometimes they mean left on the map. How about we grow up and use cardinal directions like intelligent adults. Use "INC WEST" so we don't have to decipher your subjective meaning You're right. It's difficult to use the minimap to judge where is Left and Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zutha Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Haha I always call East and West myself and laugh at the people who don't understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlamorel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 C'mon people. Left and right are subjective. Sometimes people mean left out of the rez point and sometimes they mean left on the map. How about we grow up and use cardinal directions like intelligent adults. Use "INC WEST" so we don't have to decipher your subjective meaning Couldn't agree more, though I would say it more diplomatically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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