Has Bioware already lost the PvP base?

[bwookie]

the majority i speak of actually play the game and dont even bother reading the forums let alone actually post how much fun they are having. you should try it, playing the game i mean. pvpers are playing a loving it for the most part. half the people on the forums dont even play and who are these pvp players you speak of? the self proclaimed "hardcore pro pvpers" who get their butts pasted inthe game so they come on forums to moan and complain that all their "hard work" abusing the system to farm themselves a gear advantage didnt make them pvp gods so now BW sucks and tor sucks. lol.

 

look, if the game is fun, then play it. if it really isnt, then dont. but why keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? and why oh why keep posting if you already have quit playing?

 

If you're having so much fun why are you even responding? I have five posts (including this one) on these forums. All PVP related. I like the game and would like the company to know my concerns in the slim chance that they can do something to turn this ship around. I have a feeling you also consider PVP pretty important considering you're reading this subforum and replying. Either that or you really should take your own advice and play more and post less.

Edited February 11, 2012 by bwookie

[MiaRB]

If you're having so much fun why are you even responding? I have five posts (including this one) on these forums. All PVP related. I like the game and would like the company to know my concerns in the slim chance that they can do something to turn this ship around. I have a feeling you also consider PVP pretty important considering you're reading this subforum and replying. Either that or you really should take your own advice and play more and post less.

 

i having been doing stuff that requires my attention, so i have time to read and post, but not to play the game at the moment. but be sure, when i have time to play, i dont even give the forums a second thought.

 

by the way, my statement was more just an in general type of thing and not specific to you.

Edited February 11, 2012 by MiaRB

[Ezze]

pvp would only be possible in small group encounters...

 

never on a illum scale... not until the engine is severely altered ... Only thing to do is roll alts or pve raid

[donlep]

imho if a team wants to retain the PVP crowd, it needs to have meaningfull pvp

by meaningfull pvp, i mean pvp with progression

by pvp with progression i mean things that improve your character, so no fluff like stupid titles or mounts that are the same speed as standard mount, some will say that gear is a meaningfull progression, but i strongly disagree we all know that in a short time they will make a new tier of gear and they will keep doing that untill the game flops, so gear is at best a temporary reward=semi fluff

 

what a good pvp system need is permanent progression, you get points as you rise in valor rank, and you can spend those points on pvp abilities, stats, stuff like that, a system like this will keep players playing for years if done well

as it is now in this game at rank 60+ there is absolutely no point playing, besides the 2 daily quests

 

also if a game want open world pvp, it just does not work to have warzones with better reward, if you can que for guaranteed pvp action with decent rewards, who on earth is gonna look for MAYBE finding some open world pvp with no rewards?

 

ilum is not open world pvp, its 1 pvp zone with crappy rewards at best, the only reason people go there is for the daily quest

Edited February 11, 2012 by donlep

[Azhaell]

Man pvp must be fun i will not whana to progres in a pvp if its not fundamentali fun.

Right now is just a mindless crind and not a bit fun.

Fix the core of the game class mirrors hacks exploits and so.

And make it fun for all even for the new lvl 50.

Warhammer have lots of problem but was at least fun for a time.

Thys game pvp is not fun not the WZs and Ilum is a joke.

[homfridus]

As a high rated Gladiator player from WoW, I must say that my partner who I've rolled with on this game has already semi-quit.

 

I'm still here only because of RL mates and the fact that my sub is active until 22.04.

 

 

edit

 

The guy above me who mentioned Burning Crusade.. that was the best game ( or well, xpack ) I have ever played, outside of old DOS/Win95 platformers. I honestly don't think anything can or will ever be compareable to the progression and the fun that TBC offered. Ranging from Kara, to Gruul; from SSC to MH; from BT to Sunwell, from S1 to S4, I don't remember a single time I was actually bored during TBC.

 

 

Level 70 was the most fun in any game ever. Agreed

[Briljin]

I came to TOR from Aion, a pretty serious faction vs faction pvp game, hoping to find a fresh start here. Honestly, I am really not enjoying the PvP here. It is basically three WZs, a zerg world PvP planet and no point in world PvP. As bad as Aion is right now, I am seriously considering returning until GW 2.

 

Sad because there was so much hype about TOR.

[Baramosx]

the rest of us who love pvp in this game( the majority )

 

Give me two of whatever you are on. The people who "love" the pvp in this game are definitely not the majority.

[golfwang]

the majority i speak of actually play the game and dont even bother reading the forums let alone actually post how much fun they are having. you should try it, playing the game i mean. pvpers are playing a loving it for the most part. half the people on the forums dont even play and who are these pvp players you speak of? the self proclaimed "hardcore pro pvpers" who get their butts pasted inthe game so they come on forums to moan and complain that all their "hard work" abusing the system to farm themselves a gear advantage didnt make them pvp gods so now BW sucks and tor sucks. lol.

 

look, if the game is fun, then play it. if it really isnt, then dont. but why keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? and why oh why keep posting if you already have quit playing?

 

I don't think the majority of pvp players enjoy pvp in this game as-is. Perhaps you need to re-read the first few sentences of my original post.

 

The people who have unsubbed but still post their thoughts and feelings on these forums do so for a reason: They care.

 

I was just as excited as you and every other Star Wars/MMO/Bioware fan when this game was announced. But that doesn't mean I look at this game with rose-tinted glasses because of how much of a Star Wars/MMO/Bioware fan I am (or was).

 

I'm finding that since hitting 50, many pvp oriented players are disappointed and disillusioned with so much in this game (again, covered in my original post). We want this game to be awesome and succeed just as much as you do. Nothing I've posted in this thread has been with the intent to troll, or bash this game. I think it has serious flaws though, and that's hard for people who care about this game to ignore.

 

I think the term hardcore is irrelevant as far as this thread is concerned. We're simply talking about people who primarily play MMOs for pvp, not how long they play or how good they are.

Edited February 11, 2012 by golfwang

[golfwang]

le bump

[deltaminus]

Considering much of the QQ is coming from bads and posers, I wouldn't say that just yet.

 

"Serious" PvPers aren't the ones saying 10-49 is great and PvP at 50 sucks. It's bads and casuals who feel that way.

Edited February 11, 2012 by deltaminus

[Candykissesxoxo]

All i'm interested in is PvP from any game I play now a days. As soon as my month is done i'll be moving on. Everyone I know who came here from other games has already left for a large variety of reasons.

[golfwang]

Considering much of the QQ is coming from bads and posers, I wouldn't say that just yet.

 

"Serious" PvPers aren't the ones saying 10-49 is great and PvP at 50 sucks. It's bads and casuals who feel that way.

 

There's really no way to tell how bad a player is when they're complaining about pvp in this game (class qq aside) so this is a non-point. Bads and casuals are the only people who think pvp at 50 sucks? You're irrecoverably delusional, sorry.

 

"Serious" PvPers like myself, who wanted to primarily play this game for pvp at cap, are unimpressed on the whole. Endgame pvp in this game is flooded with content and design problems which the base has heard next to nothing on.

 

Try arguing against what I've said previously instead of insulting people and coming across as an elitist know-nothing try hard.

Edited February 11, 2012 by golfwang

[Bakarn]

More boring boring boring boring whining masquerading as "analysis".

 

Like the hundreds of thousands of carbon copies I've been seeing on WoW's forums since vanilla. As it is, this game is comfortably more engaging in PvP than WoW has been in its history with more interesting ideas, better class design and better balance than ANY point during WoW's history, including TBC (which itself was plagued with problems).

Edited February 11, 2012 by Bakarn

[golfwang]

More boring boring boring boring whining masquerading as "analysis".

 

Like the hundreds of thousands of carbon copies I've been seeing on WoW's forums since vanilla. As it is, this game is comfortably more engaging in PvP than WoW has been in its history with more interesting ideas, better class design and better balance than ANY point during WoW's history, including TBC (which itself was plagued with problems).

 

Would you care to argue this with me?

Edited February 11, 2012 by golfwang

[asilos]

80% hahahahahaha!

 

Where are bw pulling these figures from, every server in the list is now permanently light/standard bar 3-4 of them, the first weeks after launch they were all very heavy/full.

 

You do know that they raised the population caps of servers right? That was one of the very first things BioWare did. Some had wait times during the first free month, within a day or two, did not.

 

Inform yourself, you were probably there.

[golfwang]

More boring boring boring boring whining masquerading as "analysis".

 

Like the hundreds of thousands of carbon copies I've been seeing on WoW's forums since vanilla. As it is, this game is comfortably more engaging in PvP than WoW has been in its history with more interesting ideas, better class design and better balance than ANY point during WoW's history, including TBC (which itself was plagued with problems).

 

This is what I think WoW is doing, or did at one point in it's history, better than SWTOR:

 

-Organic World PvP

World PvP outside of Ilum (which has it's own problems) is spare in ToR. Very sparse. I can count the amount of times I ran into republic players on one hand with my Sith Sin as I leveled to 50. I've yet to encounter any empire players on my lvl 42 republic alt. Why is this? I think this is because:

 

Flashpoints are located in the fleets instead of the open world(s)

Quest hubs on contested planets are far apart for republic and empire.

The instancing/sharding on planets further divides both factions.

 

Compare this to WoW which encourages World PvP with quests that bring the opposite faction in each others faces, instances within the game world and no world or region instancing. You're also unable to siege/invade opposite faction capitals at all. ToR takes a massive fun factor hit on pvp servers here.

 

-Engaging PvP

Very subjective topic but I'll talk about what's unegaging in ToR's pvp; combat. It's still clunky and inferior to the fluidity and finesse of WoW's. I don't even think this point is arguable You've also got a piss poor gear progression system in place at cap for pvp players (Battle Masters) and a horrible game engine which lags like crazy in any large scale fighting.

 

I'll start.

 

-Class Balance

SWTOR takes this handily, not that it's balance is perfect. Better than WoW? By miles.

 

-Class Design

Gotta give this to WoW, and I get how subjective this is. Put the level of visual and mechanic distinction in WoW's classes just feels unrivaled if you try and compare it to ToR's.

 

What interesting ideas are you referring to in your post? I've seen nothing interesting in ToR pvp besides Huttball, even then the map kinda sucks, especially for rated play. Everything else is derivative.

 

None of these complaints tackle the lack of pvp content or it's quality, either.

Edited February 11, 2012 by golfwang

[Bakarn]

Number 1. I only just missed out on Glad in WoW playing a Ret paladin in TBC, so I'd argue I'm probably harder core than 99.99% of the people here.

 

For starters, you used the word "faith". So far, SWTOR has had one major patch along with several dozen minor patches, most of which contained a fix for PvP of some variety or another. The game was released around two months ago. You haven't even had time to develop "faith" in the PvP design of the game. If this was patch 2.7 and we were still in this state then I'd argue you have a point, but you don't right now.

 

Bugs.

 

By comparison, there were game breaking bugs for paladins and rogues in WoW two and six YEARS respectively after release. Paladins were overhauled completely in the last patch of beta and remained fundamentally broken for over five years, and then were REBROKEN when they were FIXED. You've had one patch and a few minor bug fixes, most of which were urgently needed. Need I remind you how broken Wintergrasp was (you know, seeing as for upwards of three months on some servers you could not recapture it on the smaller faction) and how buggy its systems were.

 

Most of the nostalgia for TBC vanishes when you play one of the three classes that for large periods of that expansion were completely excluded from competitive PvP. By comparison, TOR has even managed to make tanks workable in PvP.

 

However, more important is the fact that you seem to have based your entire opinion around "the game isn't designed for PvP" and then proceed to give absolutely no evidence to support your opinion. You then speak of TERA, another grind em up MMO with some flashy graphics, and Guild Wars 2 which plays like a crap hybrid of League of Legends and Unreal Tournament, and the latter of which has NO OPEN WORLD PVP WHATSOEVER and NO PVE ENCOUNTER DESIGN WHATSOEVER. PvE in GW2 is less engaging than space combat in TOR, and PvP is less engaging too.

 

Simply put, I've had to add bits to my critique of your "critique" because you didn't actually offer any critique. At all.

[Bakarn]

Oh, and if you want to talk about breaking world PvP, I have two words for you.

 

Flying. Mounts.

 

World PvP in WoW died 3 expansions ago. Back in the same patches that had paladins able to hit people for 90% of their health after getting crit four times and mages were able to one shot people by stacking trinkets. Prior to that, shamans either killed people in 2s or never at all, mana burn rendered healers virtually useless, tanks could not PvP at all and PvE geared players stomped PvP geared players with near universal ease.

 

The grind to Grand Marshal was the most dismal thing ever implemented in an MMO, and makes the battlemaster grind look absolutely laughable by comparison. I know people who got GM and then quit the game in disgust.

 

WoW is no example to use as a balanced game. To state otherwise is rose tinted glasses in the extreme. The class designs atm are also the result of seven years of iteration. They were nothing like as interesting as SWTORs as the beginning, either. Do you really want to push this comparison further, or do you want me to go into detail what makes the Imperial Sniper (with a sum total of around 30 interacting abilities) much more interesting than the vanilla WoW paladin (with a sum total of 2)? I would like to note that the TBC Ret paladin had a sum total of 3 usable attacks.

 

I would also add that for much of WoW's life, entering into any form of large scale PvP would more or less instantly crash the server. Low to medium spec machines were often completely decimated by spell effects and often could not see spells being cast at all. The combat system was often completely unresponsive and tended to break randomly for at least three classes, and one class suffered from a penalty to their melee range which made them almost unplayable for nearly three expansions.

 

It was common for melee classes to be sat virtually on top of a caster and be unable to hit them, and it was also very common for spells to completely ignore LoS because it wasn't flagged as LoS. Never mind the random losses due to floor clipping, being ported through the bottom of the world, blink not firing, charge being jumped or sending you fifteen feet to the right of the opponent, vanish not working, paladin spells locking up and the overwhelming amount of burst damage that has utterly wrecked WoW PvP since the beginning of WoTLK.

 

It is only after coming to a game like SWTOR where rules like LoS apply consistantly and are hard coded into the engine (and not just a flag on the surfaces) that it is possible to realize just how bad WoW actually was.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Bakarn

[golfwang]

Number 1. I only just missed out on Glad in WoW playing a Ret paladin in TBC, so I'd argue I'm probably harder core than 99.99% of the people here.

 

For starters, you used the word "faith". So far, SWTOR has had one major patch along with several dozen minor patches, most of which contained a fix for PvP of some variety or another. The game was released around two months ago. You haven't even had time to develop "faith" in the PvP design of the game. If this was patch 2.7 and we were still in this state then I'd argue you have a point, but you don't right now.

 

Bugs.

 

By comparison, there were game breaking bugs for paladins and rogues in WoW two and six YEARS respectively after release. Paladins were overhauled completely in the last patch of beta and remained fundamentally broken for over five years, and then were REBROKEN when they were FIXED. You've had one patch and a few minor bug fixes, most of which were urgently needed. Need I remind you how broken Wintergrasp was (you know, seeing as for upwards of three months on some servers you could not recapture it on the smaller faction) and how buggy its systems were.

 

Most of the nostalgia for TBC vanishes when you play one of the three classes that for large periods of that expansion were completely excluded from competitive PvP. By comparison, TOR has even managed to make tanks workable in PvP.

 

However, more important is the fact that you seem to have based your entire opinion around "the game isn't designed for PvP" and then proceed to give absolutely no evidence to support your opinion. You then speak of TERA, another grind em up MMO with some flashy graphics, and Guild Wars 2 which plays like a crap hybrid of League of Legends and Unreal Tournament, and the latter of which has NO OPEN WORLD PVP WHATSOEVER and NO PVE ENCOUNTER DESIGN WHATSOEVER. PvE in GW2 is less engaging than space combat in TOR, and PvP is less engaging too.

 

Simply put, I've had to add bits to my critique of your "critique" because you didn't actually offer any critique. At all.

 

Your Number 1 doesn't really matter, does it? I got glad three straight seasons on my hunter...no one cares and it has nothing to do with what we're arguing

 

My faith is waning in Gabe's team because of how horrible Ilum was at launch (and still is) and the detrimental game designs inherhent to ToR pvp. I may not have had time to gain faith, but Gabe and his team have given me plenty of reasons to lose it. Everything I mentioned about world pvp will more than likely stay the same. I doubt we'll see a massive overhaul for the sake of pvp. This means we're more than likely to just see bug fixes and pvp content...albeit at a far slower rate than pve contnet.

 

The bugs suck but they're to be expected. I haven't really harped on bugs much in any of the criticisms I've made. Wintergrasp sucked hard for awhile but there is one major distinction between WG and Ilum to be made: WG was not a core part of the endgame pvp experience. You didn't need to do it to progress but there was more pvp content in the game to offset how much it sucked. In ToR you need to go to Ilum as a pvp player to progress at a reasonable rate. Outside of Ilum we have three warzones. The content just isn't there in ToR, and it's designed poorly.

 

I know what you mean when you talk about the poor mechanics that plagued WoW's combat over the years, it had it's flaws. But, it is to date the most fluid combat system in an MMO ever. The problems you bring up affected specific classes (I played a feral druid, I know) but not every class.

 

Every class was viable in TBC though there was definitely a pecking order. Certain specs weren't viable though, and that's a very different thing. ToR is better in this aspect of it's balance but there are still some specs that flat out suck in pvp.

 

I've given plenty of reasons why the design in this game combats it's pvp. Read what I've written. You're cherry picking pieces of my argument and responding to whatever you want. That's very poor form.

 

Also: You know pretty much nothing about Guild Wars 2 if you think it plays like LoL and UT. It is simply nothing like either. It's a a persistent world AAA MMO, educate yourself before making outlandish claims. I don't really have faith in TERA but it doesn't matter, that's competition ToR is going to have to deal with and that's the context in which I've brought all these other MMO's up. ToR faces stiff competition this year.

 

Also, I find it hilarious that you bash GW2 so heavily (when you probably haven't played it) for one reason alone: The combat is dynamic. You can literally dodge out of the way of ranged and melee attacks in GW2. What does ToR (or even WoW) offer that's more dynamic and engaging than that? There is nothing different or specifically engaging about WoW or ToR's combat, it's the same hotkey > target >attack/cast system we've seen since forever.

 

Your bias is obvious and full of misinformation.

Edited February 11, 2012 by golfwang

[golfwang]

Oh, and if you want to talk about breaking world PvP, I have two words for you.

 

Flying. Mounts.

 

World PvP in WoW died 3 expansions ago. Back in the same patches that had paladins able to hit people for 90% of their health after getting crit four times and mages were able to one shot people by stacking trinkets. Prior to that, shamans either killed people in 2s or never at all, mana burn rendered healers virtually useless, tanks could not PvP at all and PvE geared players stomped PvP geared players with near universal ease.

 

The grind to Grand Marshal was the most dismal thing ever implemented in an MMO, and makes the battlemaster grind look absolutely laughable by comparison. I know people who got GM and then quit the game in disgust.

 

WoW is no example to use as a balanced game. To state otherwise is rose tinted glasses in the extreme. The class designs atm are also the result of seven years of iteration. They were nothing like as interesting as SWTORs as the beginning, either. Do you really want to push this comparison further, or do you want me to go into detail what makes the Imperial Sniper (with a sum total of around 30 interacting abilities) much more interesting than the vanilla WoW paladin (with a sum total of 2)? I would like to note that the TBC Ret paladin had a sum total of 3 usable attacks.

 

I would also add that for much of WoW's life, entering into any form of large scale PvP would more or less instantly crash the server. Low to medium spec machines were often completely decimated by spell effects and often could not see spells being cast at all. The combat system was often completely unresponsive and tended to break randomly for at least three classes, and one class suffered from a penalty to their melee range which made them almost unplayable for nearly three expansions.

 

It was common for melee classes to be sat virtually on top of a caster and be unable to hit them, and it was also very common for spells to completely ignore LoS because it wasn't flagged as LoS. Never mind the random losses due to floor clipping, being ported through the bottom of the world, blink not firing, charge being jumped or sending you fifteen feet to the right of the opponent, vanish not working, paladin spells locking up and the overwhelming amount of burst damage that has utterly wrecked WoW PvP since the beginning of WoTLK.

 

It is only after coming to a game like SWTOR where rules like LoS apply consistantly and are hard coded into the engine (and not just a flag on the surfaces) that it is possible to realize just how bad WoW actually was.

 

I know flying mounts killed wpvp in WoW

The key distinction is that there was world pvp to kill to begin with. ToR could implement flying mounts today and I think most people world hardly notice the drop in wpvp.

 

I never mentioned grind in my critique of ToR pvp, you need to stay on subject..

 

I never said WoW is balanced. I simply think, from practically every standpoint, it's designed and implemented better. And again, I've already said why. You've ignored a ton and gone off on tangents in every which direction.

 

It was cool for a while but near the tail end of TBC the damage had been done. WoW still had better overall design as far as World PvP is concerned, it just began to slowly die out.

 

I'm not sure it was ever really there in ToR. For example, compare the massive wpvp groups that crashed WoW: We're talking the opposite taking a raid faction (maybe two) into the opposing capital and causing chaos (which was awesome). ToR not only has nothing comparable but allows for far fewer players to engage in pvp at once.

 

I never said the combat mechanics of WoW were perfect but it was certainly better. The mechanical flaws you listed were unique to a class, the combat mechanic flaws in ToR plague the entire system and affect some classes more than others. Can you honestly say ToR is more responsive and fluid? Knock WoW all you want (and those are valid points) but no other MMO plays as well as WoW.

 

Interrupts not firing off when you press them? Various forms of ability delay and random canceling still in the game? This isn't affecting one class, its everyone. And players still encounter weird bugs too, like force push being weird as hell to aim, falling through the world, etc..

 

Look, your arguments are all over the place and don't really address anything I've said in a coherent order. If this is a debate you want to have you need to organize your counter points better and stay on topic.

 

You're just bashing WoW at this point. I never said it was the most balanced or awesome game, it certainly isn't perfect....but ToR borrows heavily from WoW and I think I've made a case for why so much of what it attempts to copy is WORSE.

 

You can ignore those arguments if you want but I'll just take that as tacit agreement.

Edited February 11, 2012 by golfwang

[Eltohan]

I feel not i have been doing hard modes and operations..... its damn too easy... a well organized PVE guild should be full Rakata by now....

 

Agree ! Except some of SOA's bugs (which should be resolved by now), pve content is easier than wotlk heroics instances

 

I'm already seeing much more people in semi-full rakata gear (and our serv is nearly ghost town already, max people in fleet is like 110 in rush hour+W-E) than I'm seeing in BM gear

When people are running the same old 2 raids they have already cleared X times, I bet they'll be fed up if not more than pvp boys.

 

I wa litterrally laughing hard when I came to help a buddy (I'm in champ gear but rage spec so not so viable in raid) and we cleared 4/5 EV in 1h30. Only SOA was a bit harde if only for some bugs and people needing to L2TAB and switch focus fire (especially distance DD)

 

I think pve content is even more a joke than pvp atm

[golfwang]

 

Agree ! Except some of SOA's bugs (which should be resolved by now), pve content is easier than wotlk heroics instances

 

I'm already seeing much more people in semi-full rakata gear (and our serv is nearly ghost town already, max people in fleet is like 110 in rush hour+W-E) than I'm seeing in BM gear

When people are running the same old 2 raids they have already cleared X times, I bet they'll be fed up if not more than pvp boys.

 

I wa litterrally laughing hard when I came to help a buddy (I'm in champ gear but rage spec so not so viable in raid) and we cleared 4/5 EV in 1h30. Only SOA was a bit harde if only for some bugs and people needing to L2TAB and switch focus fire (especially distance DD)

 

I think pve content is even more a joke than pvp atm

 

I don't want to stall discussion or anything, but with all do respect: This thread is about pvp. I'd prefer to leave pve out of this thread (even though I agree with what you've said).

[lethal_ghost]

GW2 is looking more and more desirable, may be i expected too much from swtor

[Sabbathius]

GW2 is looking more and more desirable, may be i expected too much from swtor

 

I wouldn't get too worked up about it. For one, it's NCSoft. Let's recap some recent NCSoft-published MMO titles, shall we? Aion. Dead in 3 months. Tabula Rasa, dead in 2 months, shut down in 13. Yeah, I know, it's Arena. Net developing. But it's NCSoft publishing. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

As for Bioware losing the PvP player base, I don't think it had much of one to begin with. The game is designed specifically to minimize PvP. Take WoW - you go to Tanaris, there's one quest hub. Exact same thing could have been done on, say, Voss, which is neutral. That neutral faction would send players to exact same spots for exact same quests. Result? World PvP. In SWTOR, the game is designed to keep Pubs and Imps as far away from eachother as possible. It is specifically made this way to avoid world PvP as much as humanly possible. In WoW, it was possible to attack the outposts. A few high level chars could come to Crossroads or Astranaar and wreck the place. In SWTOR, you have tons of champion guards and turrets, no go. Etc., etc.

 

This game isn't about PvP. Was never about PvP, and likely will never be about PvP. First major expansion, Rise of the Rakghouls? Was that a PvE or PvP expansion? PvE, of course. That's your answer. So far, I'm not really impressed by their "best PvP developer team in the world".