Don't compare TOR to WoW at launch, compare it to Rift.

[Karokk]

Turn it around instead and look what SWTOR had at launch that RIFT did not:

 

- Complete VO

- Great leveling experience

- Great stories

- Space combat

- More end-game content (at launch)

- Great and a lot more balanced PvP

- Datacrons

- Light/Dark side choices (coupled with great stories making it the first REAL mmoRPG)

 

and more...

 

The light/dark side points actually make it less RP as there are consequences to being neutral. As neutral you can't use alot of gear. I wanted to be neutral on my bounty hunter but the whole gear-thing made me go light on every choice just for the points.

[Turista]

How Rift could release with full UI customizeability, a much more polished graphics experience, a full achievements system, a dozen fully functional dungeons, three fully-functional raids within 3 months of launch, a very practical and functional combat log, a more viable and relevant crafting system, as well as fully functional dynamic content, while TOR features none of these thing-- it just boggles the mind.

 

Exactly.

 

The engine alone, being buggy and antiquated, is a deep-rooted problem that they will have to deal with for a long time.

 

Bioware has the better IP though and did some great things with the game. They did enough to make most of us overlook its flaws for some time and enjoy the hell out of it. But now that we've spent countless hours with the game the problems are becoming more clear and harder to dismiss.

[MatchpointServe]

Rift = Poorly executed WoW clone.

SWTOR = Nicely executed EverQuest 2 clone.

 

^

 

Tried Rift several times. From beta till already patched version. It just feels rough and cheap.

Bad animations. Ugly design. Weak sounds and generic music.

I could not care less about gameplay innovations(There are none in Rift) if game PRESENTS itself poorly.

 

SWTOR felt and played like AAA game from day one. Yes, there are bugs, but they are to be expected. Still, the general feel of the game is good. First time since WoW I feel something like that in a MMO.

 

How can you compare to SWTOR to EQ2? EQ2 was great until SOE ruined it.

[GlaDOSowen]

I was interested in Rift for awhile, but I forgot about it. Might as well wait until it (probably) goes F2P

[Marak]

The light/dark side points actually make it less RP as there are consequences to being neutral. As neutral you can't use alot of gear. I wanted to be neutral on my bounty hunter but the whole gear-thing made me go light on every choice just for the points.

 

Color crystals and inferior relics are the only two things with a restriction. Color crystals less so than relics.

 

Or in other words.. the system is barely restrictive at all.

[Drake_Hound]

I will not compare it to Rift.

 

Rift had a good launch.

 

This game has the worse launch in MMO history.

 

Only people who hail it as a good launch either got in on the first day (people that preorder instantly), never logged off or are just Biodrones.

 

That is total rubbish you know it , and stop repeating yourself cause you are stuck in a stupid mindset .

 

The launch is good , why cause till 30 the game was superior to rift .

Hence the 1.7 million subscribers .

 

So it had a brilliant launch but they neglected the feedback of players who did take the stuff seriously .

So class quests bugged ? wait till majority gets there

No LFG finder ? wait till majority gets there

Bugged areas ? Wait till majority gets there.

 

Well now the majority are getting there and they are quiting , cause the feedback given.

Was ignored !

It doesn´t take much nowadays to make people quit a game .

Cause simply put , it is a selfishe generation , that pays to have fun !

They are paying customers not old fashion MMO basement dwellers with no good income and no life or future .

[Thuggy]

Quality of Life.

ah, thanks for clarifying

 

Really? Cause that game was literally advertised as the wow killer. You guys don't remember the "this isn't azeroth anymore" advertisements? SWTOR as far as I'm aware never advertised anything so blatant. TRION worlds is also hardly a new company.

 

Yeah i remember that campaign, it was defiantly designed to be provocative and bring eyeballs to the product, like any good ad campaign should do. But that doesn't reflect how it's actually expected to preform. For example, do you honestly expect to be mobbed by beautiful women when you put on an Axe branded product? =p

[Turista]

Turn it around instead and look what SWTOR had at launch that RIFT did not:

 

- Complete VO

- Great leveling experience

- Great stories

- Space combat

- More end-game content (at launch)

- Great and a lot more balanced PvP

- Datacrons

- Light/Dark side choices (coupled with great stories making it the first REAL mmoRPG)

 

and more...

 

These are great, yes, they're the reason I love TOR and play the hell out of it. But they're not polish items, they're basic game features that were focused on and executed well. The point I'm trying to make is that there are other basic features in this game that are severely unpolished or half-designed.

 

I could make you a list of features that Rift has that TOR doesn't as well. I was comparing things they share and saying Rift's were way more polished.

 

Let me reiterate: I like TOR better. I have more fun with it in great part because it's Star Wars. But I still can't believe the game was released in this state.

[Mannic]

Quality of Life.

 

Really? Cause that game was literally advertised as the wow killer. You guys don't remember the "this isn't azeroth anymore" advertisements? SWTOR as far as I'm aware never advertised anything so blatant. TRION worlds is also hardly a new company.

 

Ummm, no one at Trion ever advertized Rift as a WoW-killer. Yes, they marketed to WoW players. Obviously they marketed to WoW players. They'd be stupid NOT to market to WoW players, considering WoW players are 60% of the MMO market.

 

And you know what? It worked. They made over $100 million in gross revenues in the first 10 months on a game that cost them $50 million to make. For a first-time effort from a brand new developer with an unheard of IP, that's pretty phenomenal. Rift has been far more profitable than much more hyped products like LoTRO, Warhammer, and AoC, and drained off 600K players from WoW, and Trion did it without relying on the drawing power of an already world-famous IP like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings.

 

So, no, it was never billed as a WoW-killer, but it definitely has gotten fat off WoW's bored player base. Give credit where credit is due. If SWTOR wasn't Star Wars, it would already be sniffing around for Rift's scraps.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Mannic

[Marak]

ah, thanks for clarifying

 

 

 

Yeah i remember that campaign, it was defiantly designed to be provocative and bring eyeballs to the product, like any good ad campaign should do. But that doesn't reflect how it's actually expected to preform. For example, do you honestly expect to be mobbed by beautiful women when you put on an Axe branded product? =p

 

What are you talking about? I wear that Axe Chocolate stuff and chicks bite big chunks out of me all the time.

[MatchpointServe]

That is total rubbish you know it , and stop repeating yourself cause you are stuck in a stupid mindset .

 

The launch is good , why cause till 30 the game was superior to rift .

Hence the 1.7 million subscribers .

 

So it had a brilliant launch but they neglected the feedback of players who did take the stuff seriously .

So class quests bugged ? wait till majority gets there

No LFG finder ? wait till majority gets there

Bugged areas ? Wait till majority gets there.

 

Well now the majority are getting there and they are quiting , cause the feedback given.

Was ignored !

It doesn´t take much nowadays to make people quit a game .

Cause simply put , it is a selfishe generation , that pays to have fun !

They are paying customers not old fashion MMO basement dwellers with no good income and no life or future .

 

Having played both games at launch, Rift's was definitely smoother. If SWTOR was not Star Wars, Rift probably would have more subscribers right now. Don't get me wrong -- I canceled my Rift subscription after a couple of months, but their game was a lot more polished and less buggy.

[HKaRii]

We're approaching the 3 month mark and there's hardly been any improvement in the QoL area.

 

Whatever they have planned for March had better be substantial, because it's the last chance they have at keeping my money.

[xSerge]

I was interested in Rift for awhile, but I forgot about it. Might as well wait until it (probably) goes F2P

 

Its already F2P for the first 20 levels.

 

Try it. I guarantee you, you will quit it before that of boredom.

 

Generic wall of text grind quests(At least in WoW there are cutscenes and the text itself is good written) and annoying events no one cares about in low level zones interrupting your questing.

 

lol

[Thuggy]

What are you talking about? I wear that Axe Chocolate stuff and chicks bite big chunks out of me all the time.

Touche good sir, I stand corrected

[Sheridyn]

How Rift could release with full UI customizeability, a much more polished graphics experience, a full achievements system, a dozen fully functional dungeons, three fully-functional raids within 3 months of launch, a very practical and functional combat log, a more viable and relevant crafting system, as well as fully functional dynamic content, while TOR features none of these thing-- it just boggles the mind.

 

This. SWTOR features no dynamic content, no real solo achievement hunting apart from datacrons, no combat log, and pretty much nothing to do at level 50 apart from reroll and do 90% of the same quests again with a different character.

[Drake_Hound]

Having played both games at launch, Rift's was definitely smoother. If SWTOR was not Star Wars, Rift probably would have more subscribers right now. Don't get me wrong -- I canceled my Rift subscription after a couple of months, but their game was a lot more polished and less buggy.

 

ME too and i got bored at level 20 cause it was just the same old junk !

While SWTOR got me hooked to level trough 50 , even not venting when class quest was bugged .

 

There is a difference , while in rift the community spirit is beter.

In swtor there is hardly any communication and it get worst at the 40 range .

Where general is like ghost channel .

 

So a huge difference in rift that people do talk in general .

And in SWTOR people hardly have time to talk .

 

The hotfixes of RIFT was much beter , the developers responding to logical players need much beter .

Handling of goldfarmers and exploiters much beter .

 

Sadly Trion suffers from backbone problems , and having my credentials hacked twice .

Said enough of it .

 

SWTOR backbone is really rubbishe for a EA supported game .

Customer support is the lowest I have ever witness in any MMO .

It is like somebody of telecommunication came and said , this is how customer support works .

Wait telecommunication is mandatory in REAL LIFE , but gaming isn´t !!

[MutantGnome]

I will not compare it to Rift.

 

Rift had a good launch.

 

This game has the worse launch in MMO history.

 

Only people who hail it as a good launch either got in on the first day (people that preorder instantly), never logged off or are just Biodrones.

 

 

having a good "launch" is still no excuse for that fact that rift is noting more than a wow wannabe and a damn bad one at it, its the worst crap ever being called a game...

[Turista]

having a good "launch" is still no excuse for that fact that rift is noting more than a wow wannabe and a damn bad one at it, its the worst crap ever being called a game...

 

That's some constructive feedback right here folks. No hyperbole, all considered. Added a lot to this conversation.

 

Le sigh.

[warultima]

yeah right, and i assume you also compare it to basically every other game because you care?

 

All these ppl that make posts about what rift had and what wow had and wow this and rift this is driving me up the damn wall! Stop being snot nosed little brats and give them time to get the game where it is supposed to be, lfg tool, the UI ect, give it time they will get to it. If you miss those features that much then by all means go back to the games that have them, i am sure no one will even miss you in game. This game is this bad and this game is that bad, no one is forcing you to play, unless there is someone next to you with a gun to your head forcing you to log in its still your choice, if you hate it this much then LEAVE!

 

You really cant say SWTOR is not a wow wannabe. Only fanbois would deny such. If Rift is a wow wannabe then TOR is a wow wannabe that failed miserably.

 

So TOR is not like wow at all. Not even the tri-talent tree system thats no even close to what wow has... oh wait. Rift gives each class EIGHT talent trees at launch, you can use up to 3 at a time and up to 4 specs that you can switch the trees and completely changes the way to play your toon completely. SWTOR only has 3 talent per AC which is EXACTLY LIKE Wow.

 

While I agree Trion might give too much QoL to players but it also means they are confident in their own game that you dont need meaningless time-sink like going thru 6 different instance just to go to the next planet.

 

People comparing TOR to Rift is rightfully correct. And its obvious the quality of the game itself outside of voice over Rift has TOR beat in every single ways possible. Also have you considered the cost of development of Rift is lower than a quarter of that TOR? Also Trion is a standalone small company thats new to the business while BioWare is known as a celebrity RPG developer that have developed some KILLER games and covered by EA one of the largest game developer in the entire world of earth?

 

I played Rift and TOR both from Beta and saying TOR have done something "better" in Tor compare to Rift is the VO and nothing else... no offense but its just the truth.

 

I for one critisze TOR because I want our voice be heard especially I spent US Dollars on this product and KNOWING theres no way I will get my 150 bulks back, I have to settle for the next best thing for MYSELF AND FOR SWTOR which is push the game maker to make this product better so I dont regret my decision in buying this product.

 

I can garrantee you (assuming you are not yet another clueless little fanboys) if BW announces that they will refund the cost of the game in full (i can careless about the sub $$) to people thats not satisfied, I will be gone already. But thats not gonna happen so I wish BW learn from other better games out there in attempt to make TOR better.

 

Finally I wish I could enjoy TOR for as long as I (and many others) played WoW and Rift. So please make it happen BW. Listening to clueless fanboys and purposely to keep this game as crappy as possible is not a great business decision.

Edited February 9, 2012 by warultima

[Navakai]

Like it or not; WOW set the Industry standard by being the number 1 subscribed to MMO.

 

Any company with half a brain would have had alot of these features at launch. People can argue untill they are blue in the face in regards to Addons, macros, customizable UI's, combat logs, damage meters.

 

Reality is a subscriber base that large, with 7 years of conditioning, isn't going to accept anything less.

 

Fall in line or **** off really..

[JRandim]

Turn it around instead and look what SWTOR had at launch that RIFT did not:

 

- Complete VO

- Great leveling experience

- Great stories

- Space combat

- More end-game content (at launch)

- Great and a lot more balanced PvP

- Datacrons

- Light/Dark side choices (coupled with great stories making it the first REAL mmoRPG)

 

and more...

 

Some of these things like Story/VO I would kind of hope for considering SWtORs budget was like triple to quadruple what Rift's was. But lets not give some of these things more credit than they deserve. Like Space Combat. This is such a tacked on feature. It's like looking at a beautifully built stone castle with an addition made of plywood haphazardly tacked on to the side. They only made like 6 unique space missions, then reskinned them for Repub/Imp sides and adjusted the HP values of enemies in a few. They're so mindless and boring that I do them once and forget about them.

 

More end game content at launch is pretty useless. Since at launch nobody is at 50 anyways. I'd rather have 0 end game content at launch and get the amount of QUALITY endgame stuff that Trion pushed out for Rift in the time table that they did.

 

Considering the nerfs that have already been made, (Operative/Scoundral) and the nerfs that are probably gonna come (Sage/Sorc) I'd hardly call their PvP balanced.

 

Datacrons? Wat? Why is this relevant. And if you want something to compare to Rift had the Cairns and zone Puzzles which I thought were awesome little additions to a zone.

 

Light/Dark choices are laughable. See the castle analogy again. Because besides some minor story effects, being Light/Dark has 0 effect on a character. The only real consequence out of this system would be the "sith corruption" from going full dark side, but don't worry, you can just toggle that off.

[Mannic]

Turn it around instead and look what SWTOR had at launch that RIFT did not:

 

- Complete VO -STORY

- Great leveling experience -STORY

- Great stories -STORY

- Space combat -lolwut? Oh you mean that thing most people do a dozen times and then forget about it?-

- More end-game content (at launch) All of RIft's end-game content, you know... worked. Rift had more actual functional end-game content.

- Great and a lot more balanced PvP - lolwut? I would say it's slightly better balanced, which is odd considering TOR's class/skill system is the simplest and most shallow skill system ever put into a triple-A MMO.

- Datacrons - Rift's "exploration" system was 10 times deeper than TOR's "datacron" experience.

- Light/Dark side choices (coupled with great stories making it the first REAL mmoRPG) -STORY

 

My answers in annoying lime.

 

So basically what I said earlier... TOR has story, story, story, and story. That's the only thing that separates it from Rift other than the Star Wars IP itself.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Mannic

[ActionPrinny]

I consider a combat log of some sort to be pretty important. Right now if you die you don't necessarily have ANY idea what caused your death. It's hard to improve when you apparently just fall over dead.

 

Some sort of basic damage meter, or at least some kind of internal warning where Bioware knows approximately what damage a person of a certain class/level is supposed to do and warns you if they underperform that by 50%+ would be nice. Just to make sure people aren't being a total drag, or to let them know they have to make changes.

[Mannic]

This. SWTOR features no dynamic content, no real solo achievement hunting apart from datacrons, no combat log, and pretty much nothing to do at level 50 apart from reroll and do 90% of the same quests again with a different character.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Rift had a really well-crafted and functional Auction House system as well as things like guild banks!

 

All this stuff is rocket-science according to Bioware... just too difficult to get into a game at release. It's all stuff that can only be added later!

[MajikMyst]

Also, comparing TOR to WoW at launch is like comparing Windows 7 to Windows 95 or something. That's not how technology or software works. When a new piece of software comes out, it's expected to have features and polish of the CURRENT competition, not what was in the market 7 years ago..

 

WOW and TOR is a completely viable comparison as is Windows.. I think you are missing what is being compared..

 

Microsoft has been making Windows Software since the mid 80's.. Windows 7 still has a service pack?? With almost 30 years of making Windows software.. Why isn't windows bug free and perfect?? Isn't that the logic here?? TOR released in 2011 so it should better?? Better than what?? WOW 2011?? Talk to me when TOR has been out for almost 8 years..

 

WOW and TOR are built on different engines.. So are Rift and TOR.. Rift however isn't built based on the same concept of WOW and TOR.. Many of the mechanics are the same.. We level our characters in both games.. We to some extent choose what they look like.. TOR is completely and rigidly based on story.. WOW is loosely based on story.. PVP is largely the same.. Loot works and is based on the many of the same mechanics.. End game is also largely the same.. We have dailies, battlegrounds, heroics, and raids.. Under different names in TOR.. There is some new stuff.. We have crewskills which work a bit different than professions in WOW.. We also have companions.. Which WOW does not have.. We also have space combat.. WOW does not have a 2nd mode of game play currently available..

 

The comparions of release versions is totally acceptable and accurate.. It would be like comparing the release version of Windows 95 and the release version of Windows Vista.. Both are operating systems and perform many of the same functions.. However both are very different in many ways.. They are also over 10 years apart.. Yet the comparison is still valid..

 

There is nothing wrong with comparing WOW 2004 to STWOR 2011.. Both are release version software.. Any problems and issues in one can be compared in the other.. It is an unfair comparison to compare WOW 2011 and STWOR 2011.. WOW has had almost 8 years of bug fixes, expansion packs, and added features.. TOR has not had that.. If you are expecting TOR to be released with 8 years of evolution, patches, and expansion packs.. Then your expectations are grossly unrealistic..

 

WOW was not a demo for this game.. WOW was not a training ground for this game.. Other than basic mechanics, this game has really nothing in common with WOW.. It is built on a new game engine.. Not one that is almost 8 years old.. WOW had a lot wrong with it when it was released.. So did TOR.. So did any other MMO or game.. So did any other OS.. So did any other program.. Welcome to the realities of release software?? Why do you think they invented patches and service packs??

 

The true comparison here is how fast and how dilegent Bioware is at fixing bugs.. While I may not like all the patch nights.. I can't complain at their efforts to patch and fix the bugs in this game..