Alot people forget that this game is new...

[Tic-]

The same can be said for players in a group formed with a LFG tool. The difference is there's no accountability for a LFG player's actions unless it's same-server. Delinquents can annonymously ninja, blatantly blast through mobs like they're OP soloing and wipe everyone, or simply rage quit - and know they'll get away with it. Nothings flips a new MMO player's off switch like being caught in a random drive-by. Yes this can happen with or without a LFG tool. But at least if perps are on the same server as the party they'll have to answer to the community. I've seen it happen to a few bad eggs already and watched them leave Nihilus because they essentially incarcerated themselves. Our server is pretty tight in that respect, and that's a good thing imho.

 

And this is exactly why i subbed to this game. Well that and they mentioned something about being blown away by the pvp.

 

I enjoyed the accountability in this game. I loved the guy on my server bragging about how he was going to be afking in warzones and if anyone wanted to join him. He did, i was in one or two with him, and his name and his guild were mentioned everytime some one was in a WZ with him. Two days later, he wasn't afking anymore, and actually contributing, never saw him afk again and i thought it was fantastic.

 

Once it was mentioned that they were addind cross queue, I pretty much gave up on this game being any different than that other game. Story only holds me until the next expansion (I'm guessing), other than that, i am playing an A- typical MMO. If that MMO is precisley like another MMO I'm tired of, why bother?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tic-

[GalacticKegger]

And this is exactly why i subbed to this game. Well that and they mentioned something about being blown away by the pvp.

 

I enjoyed the accountability in this game. I loved the guy on my server bragging about how he was going to be afking in warzones and if anyone wanted to join him. He did, i was in one or two with him, and his name and his guild were mentioned everytime some one was in a WZ with him. Two days later, he wasn't afking anymore, and actually contributing, never saw him afk again and i thought it was fantastic.

 

Once it was mentioned that they were addind cross queue, I pretty much gave up on this game being any different than that other game. Story only holds me until the next expansion (I'm guessing), other than that, i am playing an A typical MMO. If that MMO is precisley like another MMO I'm tired of, why bother?

Ya. I think once the population imbalance issue is resolved a same server LFG would rock. Then perhaps after that system is solidified maybe put one in for cross server so those who want to do it can. I just feel that X-server should not be the first or only way random queueing happens. Edited February 14, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[LaVolpex]

blame lich king / cata for the generation of iwantitnows , the worst kind of gamer tbh , they are the equivalent of the young farts screaming incessantly endless babble and commentary on fps games and you end up memorizing/muting their name in every game afterwards

[LaVolpex]

And this is exactly why i subbed to this game. Well that and they mentioned something about being blown away by the pvp.

 

I enjoyed the accountability in this game. I loved the guy on my server bragging about how he was going to be afking in warzones and if anyone wanted to join him. He did, i was in one or two with him, and his name and his guild were mentioned everytime some one was in a WZ with him. Two days later, he wasn't afking anymore, and actually contributing, never saw him afk again and i thought it was fantastic.

 

Once it was mentioned that they were addind cross queue, I pretty much gave up on this game being any different than that other game. Story only holds me until the next expansion (I'm guessing), other than that, i am playing an A- typical MMO. If that MMO is precisley like another MMO I'm tired of, why bother?

 

this this and this soo much

 

i met the most people, had the most fun, in pre BC era, playing lvl 30s pvp farming my rank 11 on the most retarded pvp system ever conceived by a human being, and i did it gladly , because we had personal stakes on those fights, you KNEW the good teams on the other side, and if you were good, you got known around for being a good pvpers, the pro people on server created private channels so they could communicate world pvp as it arose, and form premades for battlegrounds at any time , it was downright the best time i ever had in wow and probably teh reason i stuck to it for so long...i wanted that kind of fun and interaction again, but it all went to **** with arenas and crosss server stuff...

[Vodalus]

<----- Don't pvp. Have never even tried it in this game. Haven't even dueled same faction.

 

<----- Haven't gotten to end game.

 

<----- Don't care if they add more Rakghouls or not.

 

So, for those of you generalizing that everyone that is not happy is an instant gratification pvper, you are wrong. Not looking for instant gratification. Not looking for pvp or operation or flashpoint content. Looking for a game with modern WORKING features.

 

What we got was a clunky game played in hallways and canyons with statue-like NPC and (M)OBs, ridiculously limited and constrained customizations, a static and unmovable UI with windows that close whenever a companion crafts, no real search feature or proper sorting in the market, blurry blob textures with no high-rez option, and with a lot of voice overs that are heavily littered with repeated dialog in wooden-animated cutscenes.

 

None of that has anything to do with the age of the game. All of it has to do with either design decisions or lacking ability on the dev team. I won't say which it is.

[Stelakh]

And, just because I'm bored and IMDB kindly provides estimated budget numbers, let's look at something and think real hard about it:

 

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope - $11,000,000.00

Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back - $18,000,000.00

Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi - $32,000,000.00

 

So the original trilogy wound up costing roughly $61 million.

 

Estimates for development of Star Wars The Old Republic fall between $150 million and $200 million.

 

So what in the name of Almighty Lucas did they spend no less than $89 million more than the production costs of the original trilogy films COMBINED that we got this outdated, poorly designed, buggy, pathy, laggy, pathetic MESS that we have?

 

It certainly wasn't the development of a custom game engine that would actually WORK with the code they've written.

 

And people want to "be patient" while throwing more money at them?

 

Seriously?

 

New or not, there's no excuse. Not when you put things into their proper context.

 

If I were EA, I'd be asking some pretty serious balance sheet questions of BioWare.

[Bloodtau]

The game is released as WOW and other games are NOW on the market, and not how they WERE.

Stop threads like this, it's just whining for the sake of whining.

Face it, this game launched crap and will suffer for it.

[Akirator]

And, just because I'm bored and IMDB kindly provides estimated budget numbers, let's look at something and think real hard about it:

 

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope - $11,000,000.00

Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back - $18,000,000.00

Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi - $32,000,000.00

 

So the original trilogy wound up costing roughly $61 million.

 

Estimates for development of Star Wars The Old Republic fall between $150 million and $200 million.

 

So what in the name of Almighty Lucas did they spend no less than $89 million more than the production costs of the original trilogy films COMBINED that we got this outdated, poorly designed, buggy, pathy, laggy, pathetic MESS that we have?

 

It certainly wasn't the development of a custom game engine that would actually WORK with the code they've written.

 

And people want to "be patient" while throwing more money at them?

 

Seriously?

 

New or not, there's no excuse. Not when you put things into their proper context.

 

If I were EA, I'd be asking some pretty serious balance sheet questions of BioWare.

 

Proper context, seriously? How does a budget for a movie have ANYTHING to do with a budget for a game?

 

And that's not even taking into account the fact of, are those values what it would cost today or the cost in the 1980s when they were actually made? If it's in the 80s you should actually double or triple those figures.

[ironix]

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope - $11,000,000.00

Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back - $18,000,000.00

Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi - $32,000,000.00

 

So the original trilogy wound up costing roughly $61 million.

 

If you adjust for inflation, it comes out to approximately $160 million.

[Stelakh]

I'm still wondering, despite inflation, what they did with all that cash.

 

And yes, in context.

 

You see, even allowing for inflation, they STILL spent more on this piece of dreck than was spent on the original trilogy.

 

If this is what they can do with that kind of money, I shudder to think what they could have come up with if they had half the budget...

 

...but the name "Tandy" comes to mind.

 

And, just for fun, calculated per film and totaled, the inflation-considered cost for all three films (using the inflation calculator at westegg.com), brings the sum total for the original trilogy to $155,228,950.00.

 

So, since that's all three movies adjusted for inflation, and they STILL spent more money on ToR, I'm still wondering why the game is such a shoddy and unpolished embarrassment.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Stelakh

[Akirator]

Ahh, i see now. You think throwing lots of money at a game should automagically make it perfect.

 

And hate to break it to you, but the only reason the original trilogy didn't completely suck was his wife did alot of editing....apparently the first cut was terribad until she got her hands on it. Maybe BW should have hired her to make this game?

[Daedricshots]

Its new? Awesome. So when i go buy a new car and 20 miles down the road the transmission falls out, ill just smile and say "ITS OK ITS NEW!". And when i take it back to the dealership to get it fixed they'll tell me "its ok, this happens to all of our new cars, its an industry standard to have it fall apart in the first month".

[Stelakh]

Ahh, i see now. You think throwing lots of money at a game should automagically make it perfect.

 

And hate to break it to you, but the only reason the original trilogy didn't completely suck was his wife did alot of editing....apparently the first cut was terribad until she got her hands on it. Maybe BW should have hired her to make this game?

 

Maybe they should have.

 

And no, I don't think throwing lots of money at a game should automatically make it perfect.

 

I think throwing lots of money and five years of development in a market where they can easily look around at other games and say to themselves, "Hey, this stuff should be in our game because every game we've looked at has it, so it must be a standard in the industry; and while we're at it let's make a game for 2012 and not 2004; oh, and we should probably design our own engine because we know what we want the game to do and the HERO engine is still really a beta product produced by someone else that won't really do what we want it to so we should do our own instead of trying to force something into it that's unsuitable" would certainly not make perfect game, but would at least make it reasonable. Mmmmmmmmmm'kay?

 

That whole prior paragraph works better if you read it with the voice of Dr. Cox from "Scrubs."

Edited February 15, 2012 by Stelakh

[Akirator]

Maybe they should have.

 

And no, I don't think throwing lots of money at a game should automatically make it perfect.

 

I think throwing lots of money and five years of development in a market where they can easily look around at other games and say to themselves, "Hey, this stuff should be in our game because every game we've looked at has it, so it must be a standard in the industry; and while we're at it let's make a game for 2012 and not 2004; oh, and we should probably design our own engine because we know what we want the game to do and the HERO engine is still really a beta product produced by someone else that won't really do what we want it to so we should do our own instead of trying to force something into it that's unsuitable" would certainly not make perfect game, but would at least make it reasonable. Mmmmmmmmmm'kay?

 

That whole prior paragraph works better if you read it with the voice of Dr. Cox from "Scrubs."

 

Haha, reading that in a Cox voice made it somewhat entertaining...

 

But one thing I really don't understand is people making arguments for or against the engine when they have no technical knowledge to back up said argument.

 

Do you know exactly what BW wants the engine to do? Do you exactly what they added or changed about the stock Hero Engine? Do you know exactly what it can or cannot do? Frankly I trust BW's game making experience over some random guy on the internet to have a good reason for choosing it over trying to do something theyv'e never done before and just hoping for the best, or choosing another MMO engine and trying to force it to do something its not suited for.

[Vodalus]

If I'm not mistaken, the guy who picked the engine for the game. . . Jumped ship. Just sayin'.

[Akirator]

If I'm not mistaken, the guy who picked the engine for the game. . . Jumped ship. Just sayin'.

 

If you mean Gordon Walton, he has a record of "jumping ship". But mainly it's usually just him following the bigger paychecks, that and his friend Raph Koster is over at Playdom.

[Vodalus]

If you mean Gordon Walton, he has a record of "jumping ship". But mainly it's usually just him following the bigger paychecks, that and his friend Raph Koster is over at Playdom.

 

Still, he's the guy that insisted they sell the hero engine to BW before it was even ready, then he bails before the project launches. Sure does make you wonder.

[Drake_Hound]

You still cannot compare TOR launch to WoW launch.

Want to know why?

 

Because when you release game with the intention of beating the heavy competition, then you have something that can compete with them. Such as a LFG tool or anything else this sinking ship is lacking.

THEN you add something new and innovative and win.

 

If you do not start out on a competitive level from the start, you're years behind.

 

So true and hindsight, any mmo launched these days without it , is simply doomed .

 

LFG just hid the standard must have , cause of the current impatient selfishe society.

Blizzard did set another high mark innovation , that has to be copied or delivered after 2 weeks of launch , to maintain subscribers.

[GalacticKegger]

The game is released as WOW and other games are NOW on the market, and not how they WERE.

Stop threads like this, it's just whining for the sake of whining.

Face it, this game launched crap and will suffer for it.

Expectations for the future of MMO's are pretty bleak then. Q) When is a developer ever going to come out with a "one size fits all / does everything every other title's ever done only better" game? A) Not in our lifetime. If one ever did, it would be so long in development that the next generation anything would make the game obsolete before it ever saw a sub.

 

So until that miracle happens we are left to simply play what is fun for us. Or bounce around myriad forums bashing their game in pubescent futility after learning how imperfect a game it turned out to be. Or go back to playing our old game. Or go play XBox where platform and end user system requirements aren't a moving target. Or mow our lawns. Or go out on dates. Or design and program our own games. I mean, real experts can do that in their sleep. Right?

Edited February 15, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[gaalon]

I enjoyed the accountability in this game. I loved the guy on my server bragging about how he was going to be afking in warzones and if anyone wanted to join him. He did, i was in one or two with him, and his name and his guild were mentioned everytime some one was in a WZ with him. Two days later, he wasn't afking anymore, and actually contributing, never saw him afk again and i thought it was fantastic.

 

I understand your (valid) concerns about cross-server LFG. However, there are many many possibilities to mitigate these problems. There could be something like a player-rating system or a vote-kick function like in BGs and WOW-LFG-dungeons. BW could also stop sucking and come up with some cool solution themselves... then that feature might be copied by WOW/Rift etc. instead of BW only copying other games (badly).

[DarkCarnage]

i'm think i rather hav a game that in it vannila mode vs one thtas has 100s of added thigns to it. While this MMO is new and there a fair number of older WOW+older MMO Vets on. there also alot of newer poeple that giving a MMO a TRY fro the first time and do not get the issues a Vet would of. BW release a Basic version fo teh game, looking at the data flowing in, turing it to something useful, relae a patch, Add function X that the majority seem to want, reinse and repeat.

 

i mean the new poeple have not clue and would not miss thigns like DBM,Recount,Combat logs, how games X did this why it not here whinning bs.

 

instead they are either " i can not find a group, is it posible to get a way to find one faster?" or " i find group easily and having fun"

 

Some times beinga vet can be a bad thing, it taints how you see things if you used to a certain style of game play. i myself a long time MMO player. Eq,OU, etc.However i only rate a game on how IT is doing not looking at another game and" why can i do this here but i can not do this in this game" i play in the world tehy give me, and if i do not like it, i send a useful e-mail/bug report of why this seem not to work as it should/i want, or i simple stop playing and find something i do enjoy.

[gaalon]

i'm think i rather hav a game that in it vannila mode vs one thtas has 100s of added thigns to it. While this MMO is new and there a fair number of older WOW+older MMO Vets on. there also alot of newer poeple that giving a MMO a TRY fro the first time and do not get the issues a Vet would of. BW release a Basic version fo teh game, looking at the data flowing in, turing it to something useful, relae a patch, Add function X that the majority seem to want, reinse and repeat.

 

i mean the new poeple have not clue and would not miss thigns like DBM,Recount,Combat logs, how games X did this why it not here whinning bs.

 

instead they are either " i can not find a group, is it posible to get a way to find one faster?" or " i find group easily and having fun"

 

Some times beinga vet can be a bad thing, it taints how you see things if you used to a certain style of game play. i myself a long time MMO player. Eq,OU, etc.However i only rate a game on how IT is doing not looking at another game and" why can i do this here but i can not do this in this game" i play in the world tehy give me, and if i do not like it, i send a useful e-mail/bug report of why this seem not to work as it should/i want, or i simple stop playing and find something i do enjoy.

 

That's your choice. If you like playing bad quality games and want to encourage dismal companies like BW to create more cheap arse money-grabs like SWTOR then I'm sure you'll be very happy in the future.

 

Of course, I can't understand why you'd settle for such a load of BS if you could also have SWTOR that doesn't suck..? Do you not want the game to be successful, have devs that learn from other peoples mistakes and adopt good new features from other games?

 

If not, why not?

 

Now please don't bring the argument that this game is "new and trying to do it differently then WOW". I know it was only recently released but it's for all intents and purposes a dumbed down version of WOW. BW copied many many things from WOW so why none of the good ones?

 

Are you also this uncritical when you buy cars or mobile phones?

 

Would you buy a car for the price of a modern car that has fewer features then a car released 20 years ago?

 

Would you pay the same price for a smart phone with no features and 256 MB memory and a processor from 1980 when you could get a iPhone or Android for the exact same price?

 

If so, could you contact me via PM? I have a "really modern" "cutting edge" smart phone to sell you.

Edited February 15, 2012 by gaalon

[Embrosil]

Haha, reading that in a Cox voice made it somewhat entertaining...

 

But one thing I really don't understand is people making arguments for or against the engine when they have no technical knowledge to back up said argument.

 

Do you know exactly what BW wants the engine to do? Do you exactly what they added or changed about the stock Hero Engine? Do you know exactly what it can or cannot do? Frankly I trust BW's game making experience over some random guy on the internet to have a good reason for choosing it over trying to do something theyv'e never done before and just hoping for the best, or choosing another MMO engine and trying to force it to do something its not suited for.

 

 

Here we are again, completely false argument you do not know how to make something so you have no idea if it is good or bad. I bet you would say the same to passengers on board the Titanic, right? They had no idea how the ship worked, they had never built one, how the hell could they knew the huge hole in the hull was bad or good, right?

Edited February 15, 2012 by Embrosil

[SirMoobs]

People are whining for Dungeon Finders, Damage Meters, Threath meters, Healing Meters, Balanced PVP etc etc. And I understand that, cause I want those things aswell.

 

BUT stop saying that SW:ToR is a failed game because they don't have all this, while for example WoW does. WoW had NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING, of this at launch.

 

 

So let me give you abit of an insight what was available at WoW's launch.

 

Dungeon Finder? No, there was a tool similiar to the "Who" tool available in SW:ToR. They improved it by time, and so will also BioWare do.

 

Balanced PVP? Not even close. Some classes was absolutely unbeatable if played with a sense of skill, while some didn't stand a chance even when mastered. This is actually true. PVP in Vanilla WoW was not balanced at all. Not to mention that it took over a year to actually make things kind of balanced.

 

Different kind of "meters"? No. Damage meters like Recount are add-ons. An add-on is something you add on to your game, to make it better. Add-ons are created by the community. Combat logs are requierd to make add-ons like these and they aren't available yet in SW:ToR. But, people were fine without all those add-ons in the what some call "the best time" of WoW, the start.

 

Bugged raids? There was not a large amount of bugs in the raids on start, but why? Because nearly all fights were tank and spank, exept Ragnaros and Onyxia, and these bosses didn't have any really complex mechanics. With today's standard of boss fights, it's alot harder to create completely bug-free fights. As time goes, BioWare will fix this issue aswell.

 

 

 

I'm getting tierd of people making assumptions that WoW had everything it has today at start, because it didn't. It's been improving, and SW:ToR will do aswell. The developers have just completed an awesome game, that really gives you a relation to your character, your companions and people you interact with during the story-line. All this due to the absolutely awesome work with the voices and quests overall.

 

 

I could make an list what SW:ToR had from the absolute start, that WoW didn't have, but I'll skip that, since it will take ages. Just think of it..

 

The game is over two months old. It is no longer new and that excuse is no longer valid. Move along.

[Rigota]

Game is not new anymore xD