thanealpha Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I played LOTRO for 2 years.( I lived in the moors.) I am valor rank 72. I now live in Ilum. This game is awesome. Do not change anything ! Just keep adding to it BioWare. Signed, Someone who has played more than you. My Valor 62 from warzones and soloing in Illum is probably pretty equivalent to your Valor 72 gotten via zerg piles raking in tons of valor. As for the Moors, I can absolutely guarentee you I've played out there more than you. Several times more than you. Two years is a noob in the moors. Just saying. Edited February 9, 2012 by thanealpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah_banana Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) The Moors works 1,000x better than Illum because there's an actual point to its existence. The reknown/infamy system actually rewards you. Capturing keeps and holding them actually rewards you. Capturing and holding the relics actually rewards you. PvP gear (at least recently) have UNIQUE bonuses that enhance PvP, not arbitrary PvP stats that are REQUIRED to even put a scratch on someone in PvP. Quest objectives are spread throughout the map so not everyone in the entire zone is snowballed into one giant clusterfudge where people get so bored they just resort to trading those objectives. I love the Moors, despite Turbine continuing to not support it. What's sad is that with a 9 figure budget and hundreds of employees, BW can't even accomplish a fraction of what the Moors does with shoestring financing and what...like two dedicated devs at the most? Did BW Austin completely forget everything they learned developing WAR? Or did they learn nothing at all from that experience? +1 Moors mini here. Being able to turtle in NPCs when you were outnumbered also helped prevent the total zerg that is Ilum right now with faction imbalance. Where's the action? EC/STAB.... ./nostalgic sigh Edited February 9, 2012 by Hannah_banana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Ettermoors were insanely boring and a pain in the *** to find a fight But when you do find a fight, it's fun. Unlike Illum. The sad thing about this whole thread is that the Moors is FAR from great. In fact it's often terrible. But it's still MILES ahead of Illum. So far ahead it's hard to even compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I should also add, I primarily solo'd and duo'd with my other half in Lotro. Everyone in TOR just zergs. There seems to be no love of a good, close fight - or even the hunt to find one. People just zerg for valor and gear in this game. It take zero strategy to "PvP" here. HI! <hug> I know, can you believe I used to think the zerg was bad in the Moors? Whole new perspective after the Illum trainwreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndiusTheGreat Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) All your concerns are premature. The game has been out a month, Ilum will improve. And Soon. Concerns for game improvements are never pre-mature. As someone who has been here well before release I can say a lot of what was suggested on these forums, has ended up in this game. Thank people voicing concerns prematurely for the fact our lightsaber models aren't 3 times larger. Edited February 9, 2012 by AndiusTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 what the hell is op talking about? what the **** is ettermoors, please everyone stop using stuf from other games, we talk about SWTOR here, not everyone has played every game in the world (yes im angry about everyone using wow references because i dont understand 90% of them) Ignorant and angry post is ignorant and angry. I've never played that game either, nor have much WoW experience but I welcome anyone to share things like this. This game is DEPRESSING so it's kind of nice when people share nostalgia on here. If I don't know something I'll look it up. The clue is somewhere in that last sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) This thread makes me laugh because I told someone that I used to play LOTRO with a couple weeks ago that the Moors are actually a better design than Ilum was. If LOTRO designed something for pvp that's better, you know you have a problem. lol Edited February 9, 2012 by Amp_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internicio Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 some of the incarnations of AV in wow would be better too, but they were much like the OP described Ettermoors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The problem is, the issues in SWTOR's PvP aren't things that patches can fix. They're not JUST little tweaks here and there. This feels like a Beta. To make this game comparable to other MMOs it would need so, so much content pouring in. 3 WZs at release was naively low looking at the current variety of others. I know others didn't start with this but they have it NOW. You release a game now and want to be competitive you have to beat the CURRENT competition. Ilum just needs to go ... but what would replace it? And how long would THAT take? I think this game has already died, tbh. So many have hit L50 already, the gear was easy to get and is now thrown at you, the World PVP needs remaking entirely, factional imbalances that aren't going to go away and seem to be increasing, etc. In essence, it's just a solo/ occassional Co-Op game posing as an MMO and boasting 'competitive' elements. Also, we have another month for 1(!!) more WZ ... ? And then how long until that gets boring? How long until people want more gear because they've hit 50 on a couple of alts and geared them already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaiyne Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QFT. Luc R12 Champion of Landroval . LUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC!!! xoxo Jaiyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Ilum needs work. I think there is great potential , but stating that it's amazing is delusional. As the OP pointed out, there needs to be something else to do during the majority of the day. Something to lure out the underpopulated side, and something to keep people interested during off peak times. The majority of my time on ilum is spent either outside the other team's base, or hiding behind the rocks hoping the other team comes out. The fight is currently too 1 dimensional. Added NPCs, more base defenses, a real impact on the battle, would make Ilum great. Best idea ever, Valor 70s get a once every 24 pet that lasts 10 mins. Maybe somekind of mech? Not being able to take the opposing base is lame. Let me try to take it, but make it incredibly hard. Till then, Ilum is just a valor grind with random 5 min periods of enjoyment isolated by hours of boredom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm sorry, but those of you who have a problem with this approach completely miss how good world pvp works. Good world pvp develops when two opposing players fight over an objective they both want to complete. Many objectives are PvE-driven, and end up creating fantastic PvP opportunities. Someone gets it. If only the Bioware devs had a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Ilum needs work. I think there is great potential , but stating that it's amazing is delusional. As the OP pointed out, there needs to be something else to do during the majority of the day. Something to lure out the underpopulated side, and something to keep people interested during off peak times. The majority of my time on ilum is spent either outside the other team's base, or hiding behind the rocks hoping the other team comes out. The fight is currently too 1 dimensional. Added NPCs, more base defenses, a real impact on the battle, would make Ilum great. Best idea ever, Valor 70s get a once every 24 pet that lasts 10 mins. Maybe somekind of mech? Not being able to take the opposing base is lame. Let me try to take it, but make it incredibly hard. Till then, Ilum is just a valor grind with random 5 min periods of enjoyment isolated by hours of boredom. I just don't see any hope for this. Not trying to be melodramatic but it's like they're missing half the game. They can barely patch Ilum correctly so I doubt they'd be able to give it any real meaning via objectives etc. It'd be nice for the Devs to speak more with the fans they don't. In another month we have 1 new WZ to look forwards to ... annnnd? Nup ... that's it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHarms Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Someone gets it. If only the Bioware devs had a clue. Dare I say something like Wintergrasp?! Not to play the WoW ****, but I believe the 7hrs : 2mins of Nascar action to actual pvp fighting on my server is driving everyone insane. If they're looking for a quick fix, make a timed "Ilum Battle" and put some extra splash on the rewards for this, something... Either that, or cut down the required armaments that are required. Farming against 20+ friends is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotardNosef Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I would argue these one sided stomps are not limited to Ilum. Even in warzones I find that one side tends to steamroll the other. Maybe a handful of times did I play an Alderaan match that was actually close, or did a voidstar map where both teams did/didn't get the core and it came down to speed of opening doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Exactly, PVE has a place in world PVP. The only place I don't really feel NPCs have a strong place are in warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Dare I say something like Wintergrasp?! Not to play the WoW ****, but I believe the 7hrs : 2mins of Nascar action to actual pvp fighting on my server is driving everyone insane. If they're looking for a quick fix, make a timed "Ilum Battle" and put some extra splash on the rewards for this, something... Either that, or cut down the required armaments that are required. Farming against 20+ friends is awful. I was thinking more like Alterac Valley. They spawned NPCs around the graveyard so one solo person could not just run up and cap them. You could spawn strong advancing NPCs with the riders or the megaboss to increase pressure temporarily and break stalemates. In Ilum you can take a speeder past the enemy (uutf) and have a single person cap every objective uncontested (uutf). The objectives do nothing (uutf) and if you die you spawn at the nearest graveyard every time with no respawn timers (uutf!). There is nothing to encourage the Imperial zerg to move away from the republic base, or to leave the center of the map. Makes a HUGE difference! Edited February 9, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceHarms Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I was thinking more like Alterac Valley. They spawned NPCs around the graveyard so one solo person could not just run up and cap them. You could spawn strong advancing NPCs with the riders or the megaboss to increase pressure temporarily and break stalemates. In Ilum you can take a speeder past the enemy (uutf) and have a single person cap every objective uncontested (uutf). The objectives do nothing (uutf) and if you die you spawn at the nearest graveyard every time with no respawn timers (uutf!). There is nothing to encourage the Imperial zerg to move away from the republic base, or to leave the center of the map. Makes a HUGE difference! I wont argue that. Anything other than participating in the "Ilum 600" and "yer dun grabbed my arments!" race cuz "dey took ur jerb" its especially awful when raid times end for everyone. (you know about 9-10pm when everyone is slamming to get dailies done before zzz) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipso Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QFT. Luc R12 Champion of Landroval Every day in SWTOR I ask myself if I'd just be happier going back to finishing up R13. Every day. I'm being held back only by 2 things. 1> My friends playing SWTOR 2> Promise of a better tomorrow. To those saying the moors is worse than Illum...I'd say this. I CAN have fun in the moors. Will I always? No. But I CAN. I cannot fathom ANY way to have fun in Illum. It's a terrible PvP mechanic from top to bottom and just a trainwreck in the middle of a trainwreck of a PvP system. Luc old friend good to see you post something here, As an Landroval player as well the PvP experience here has been a absolute and total letdown in many, many aspects and I will second the post you had quoted and what you are saying. On my server it is so heavy Imperial I (along with some guild members) rolled a rebel so we can atleast have a "target rich" enviroment and MAYBE actully have a good time not doing huttball 1,000 times a day in WZ's vs Imperials anyway. Now I am only back up to 40 but thus far the PvP experience (open world as well as WZ's) has been better 100 times and in a already horrible system is good but its far from enough to keep me playing as well as everyone else as well all know. I have thought about dusting off Eclipso and logging back in to Landroval lets see if that itch becomes one I absolutly have to scratch or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 But when you do find a fight, it's fun. Unlike Illum. The sad thing about this whole thread is that the Moors is FAR from great. In fact it's often terrible. But it's still MILES ahead of Illum. So far ahead it's hard to even compare them. Brilliant summary. The fact that we're even comparing a game that begrudgingly allows pseudo PvP (lotro) to a game that had a focus on it, and even dedicated servers to it, (swtor) is all you need to understand to realize how much of a failure the current end game PvP is. Ilum CAN get better though. It CAN become great! The core of PvP in this game is fairly solid and arguably quite fun at times - but Ilum needs a complete revamp to become anything worthy of drawing players to it for more than their dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) "Why the moors used to be fun" Seriously, moors are terrible. Nothing but raidbabies and turrets on both sides. I'd still prefer the moors over Ilum. :/ Edited February 9, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowthorne Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I just want to point out to the other LOTRO lifers out there that the Ettenmoors was incerdibly flawed when it first came out. Do you not remember creeps rolling 5 trolls and then hitting them with the WL bubble? The Ettenmoors may have a few things that Bioware can learn from however it was by no means perfect on its first or even fifth attempt. Give Bioware a chance I am pretty sure they can make Ilum better than the ettenmoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I just want to point out to the other LOTRO lifers out there that the Ettenmoors was incerdibly flawed when it first came out. Do you not remember creeps rolling 5 trolls and then hitting them with the WL bubble? The Ettenmoors may have a few things that Bioware can learn from however it was by no means perfect on its first or even fifth attempt. Give Bioware a chance I am pretty sure they can make Ilum better than the ettenmoors. Something about mentioning trolls as the broken part of the moors makes me question this... Nothing about the hilarious (im)balance? Edited February 9, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I just want to point out to the other LOTRO lifers out there that the Ettenmoors was incerdibly flawed when it first came out. Do you not remember creeps rolling 5 trolls and then hitting them with the WL bubble? The Ettenmoors may have a few things that Bioware can learn from however it was by no means perfect on its first or even fifth attempt. Give Bioware a chance I am pretty sure they can make Ilum better than the ettenmoors. Nope. There are few players who logged any real Moors time before I did, and I can say with ALL certainty that the moors FROM DAY ONE had the potential for fun. Potential that was regularly realized. Illum does not. Were the Moors perfect? No. Were the moors broken in some ways? Yes. But was there fun to be had? WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT YES!!! YES!!! A million times YES! Illum does not. It's really all that simple. Is Illum fun? No. And the SECOND a few of my friends agree to go back to Landy, I'll be the first to uninstall SWTOR and never look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaiyne Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 And the SECOND a few of my friends agree to go back to Landy, I'll be the first to uninstall SWTOR and never look back. Lee and I may be headed back. My TOR sub is up in 17 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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