Every patch that doesn't have a LFG tool is costing you players

[DarthPAWS]

This game is not a heavy grouping focused game right now , most players are focused on the solo rich story which in the main focus of the game.

 

 

there is a LFG tool already be it basic and not a auto group put you in the area type.

 

even a wow type lfg tool would not change the focus of this game being a solo story rich game with MMO stuff stuck onto.

 

 

a year or so from now it could be differnt and be more focused on groups.

 

 

change the game let people know about the LFG tool thats in the game and how to use it to find all people taged LFG even if there on differnt worlds.

 

 

but if you want a do everything group tool might as well just make the companions as powerful as a players so we can do the group stuff with them.

[XOrionX]

if it's a purple and i cant change the major armor stat (cunning/aim w/e) then obviously i would not roll on it. i'm only talking about orange gear that i could COMPLETELY re-mod.

 

But you are basically taking 3 BOP or BOE mods away from a player that could use them. The orange gear is NOT an upgrade at all because you would be stripping the mods off of it.

 

You are basically talking about needing on an item for fashion crafting purposes. This is a disguisting attitude. You are getting no stats off of stripped down orange gear, just a different appearance because you then have to go buy new mods to put into the gear just to get stats out of it.

 

 

You are not doing the pro-LFD tool group a favor at all with your argument. In fact, you are single handedly discrediting thier argument within this thread.

 

 

I am for a LFD tool with some very strict exceptions. I think that it could be done in a way to please both parties. But you sir, you make me hate the entire concept.

Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX

[Bazouk]

Actually there were two fatal mistakes by Trion that promoted the hemoraging of players, primarily by destroying server community integrity. Both were implemented in response to player whines.

 

1) cross server LFD. It enabled unrestricted douche baggery because there is no server rep to worry about, which spoils it for sincere users, and the community as a whole.

 

2) free server moves for characters every week. It enabled guilds to server hop to collect server firsts and to flex their bad behaviors on a community and then leave. Pretty much enabled individual douche bags to do the same by server hopping to scrub away a name with a bad rep and then come back to a server with a new name and begin bad behavior all over again.

 

Now, in a perfect MMO world, where everyone behaves with at lease semi-normal social responsibility and behaviors, the above is not an issue. But this isn't fantasy land, as much as the pro LFD people want us to think it is.

 

The MMO world community is far from perfect (in fact it's getting worse every year IMO) and when you put systems in place the enable/encourage negative sociopathic behaviors on others with zero real consequences, you get a distasteful result that drives many good players away from a game.

 

A very tight, server only LFD would probably not cause any social harm as it does little to degrade accountability for a character. Rep gets around, and they get ignored. But let's be honest, this is not what the pro-LFD people want. They want full cross server LFD to give them maximum ease of access to other players for a group without having to apply any social or intersocial activity or accountability. But for every responsible person that would use such a system honorably, you likely have at least one that will use it to turbo-charge their douche bag behaviors.

 

 

maybe that's why you quit. but i doubt it. i know why i quit, and it had nothing to do with a part of the game that made playing it more convenient.

[Yuuj]

The PvP que should just be expanded to included flashpoints and heroic quests. Does this kind of stuff happen in warzones? Occasionally but not nearly to the apocolyptic community destroying levels you say.

 

Anti-LFD people - please stop using dramatic end of the world rhetoric when arguing against a LFD tool. Our PvP que has already proven you false.

 

For starters, the PvP queue is server wide. I don't think most people are entirely opposed to a server LFG tool that doesn't pull from other servers, it actually keeps the community playing together.

 

With that said, low levels running around in PvP matches without sprint or their CC breakers kind of proves just how bad a LFG tool would be. You have a handful of people who either don't know how to play, or don't care that they are putting their team at a disadvantage, leeching off of the rest of the team for valor and commendations.

 

This is exactly the behavior people are afraid of if an LFG tool is implemented.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Yuuj

[suzy_lee]

I was going to quote a whole bunch of posts on this thread, but there are too many that puzzle me.

 

I am 100% in support of an LFG Q system, I think that a lot of the posts in opposition are arguing the point because each person has a different idea of what the LFG Q would be. Here is my purposal of an effective Q system.

 

1. SAME-REALM It is true that server populations are seemingly low, this is highlighted by the sheer expansiveness of the game, there may only be "42" players on the fleet at any given time, however there are many players scattered around the various worlds.

 

A proper Q system would connect players from all worlds of the game, also permitting players to enter a FP from their current questing location, also when the FP is finished they would be able to return Quest, then return to their previous location.

 

Let's say that you are in a guild, you find 3 other players willing to do a FP, however they are scattered across the game, you could then, form a group and enter Q (as group) Ensuring instant entry, thus saving much lost time in travel.

 

Players would still be able to LFG in chat, however they would also be able to invite friends on other worlds, invite guildmembers on other worlds. Let's admit that travel time is an issue, I have denied invites because I am in the middle of a class questline, or just questing in general. Meeting up at the fleet is frequently a time-consuming effort, especially if your Fleetpass is on CD, along with your quick-travel.

 

This feature could largely increase FP activity, and you'd be able to connect form new friendships easier.

 

Versatility is key, you should have the ability to do FP's in PUGs (Pick-Up Groups) by joining Q without a group, or join Q as a group. After doing a barrage of PUGs, your appreciation of a premade group will flourish.

 

How would this negatively affect community?

Edited February 7, 2012 by suzy_lee

[Moricthian]

LFD: A dungeon tool to find group across multiple servers.

PvP queue: A PvP warzone queue to a find a group on one server.

 

A tool for one server, a tool for many servers.

 

At least pretend you're not really that obtuse.

 

You know what happens when you assume right?

 

LFD: A dungeon tool to find groups.

 

A LFD can be cross-server or in server.

 

Way to make a base-less assumption then insult someone to boot. I don't think I can continue trying to have a discussion with someone of your logical caliber. I conceede you the point sir.

 

p.s. I support an in server LFD tool btw.

[Andryah]

LFG tool that is already in, works fine. IF people learn to use it and not SPAM the general with LFG messages.

 

The tool as it is allows you to search every planet and everyone that has flagged himself for a group. Problem here is this: people are not yet 50, people have better stuff to do (at least for a little while), people just don't want to play PvE just yet... and this is understandable for me, because a 50ish player with green armor is not gonna get far...

 

Play some PvP or finish daily quests, and simply wait for it. PvE will happen en-mass but after everything is said and done I believe.

 

PvE needs balls and equips, it is not for the weak. Plus it take much more time...

 

I agree with this comment. The current LFD mechanics work pretty well if you take time to actually use them. But, people are lazy, they won't admit it, but they are so they want an auto queue, auto port to encounter style LFD.

 

AND Like I said, people really want cross server LFD, and are using their failures in /general chat (or alleged failures) as a pretense IMO.

[Eldrenath]

The Forum Debate is heated, because of a minority of single issue lobbyists who have to make themselves heard whenever the topic pops up.

 

How do i know it's a minority? Easy - because most of the community did not want to use a LFG tool, then there would be no reason to complain about its introduction.

 

A LFG tool forces nothing on the playerbase, it's an optional method of forming a group, ideally used to fill the gaps in a party after you manually invite your friends and known players currently available for the content. If people don't use the tool, the game doesn't change. If the majority of the community doesn't want to use a LFG tool, then they simply don't use it, and we're back where we started.

 

The reason there is heated opposition to it, is precisely because these crusaders know that most people will use it. They'll use it because most people don't infact like sitting in Fleet spamming the general chat and whispering everyone from a /who list one at a time for hours before finally giving up on actually playing the game and logging off. It's precisely because the majority do want this feature, that it will have an impact on the game and change the way SWTOR is played.

 

Specifically, it'll have the impact of encouraging people to actually group and play the game together, instead of just standing around and talking about it. Since this little bunch of housewives are violently opposed to the idea of people being able to play the game, they will fight it tooth and nail, and so you have this thread.

 

Just because something CAN be made easy does not mean it SHOULD be made easy. I readily admit that most people would use the LFD tool if it was introduced. But my point is that my experience with an LFD tool was absolutely abysmal. I almost universally got one of the following: a completely silent group that steadfastly refused to chat, even if the chat was about tactics and approaches to the fights; or a group of complete ******s who couldn't understand why every player didn't have all top-tier gear and were not the best players on the server.

 

Yes, I admit that many people will use the LFD tool. I'll even admit that the vast majority would use it, because human nature almost always leads us to the path of least resistance. Which leads me back to my opening point: just because something CAN be made easy does not mean it SHOULD. In my opinion (which I state as an opinion, rather than an arrogant, condescending fact as you do in your post) is that the LFD tool does far more damage than good. You are, of course, free to disagree. However, my experience with a game with cross-server LFD was awful, and I was forced to use it since everyone was taking the path of least resistance. Nearly all my friends hated the thing, but nearly all used it. Because we, as humans, are idiots.

[Thundergulch]

The MMO world community is far from perfect (in fact it's getting worse every year IMO)

 

I agree, but it's still WAY WAY better than the FPS community,did you ever read the BF3 forums at all when that game was being released? Unreal.

[Ordric]

 

With that said, low levels running around in PvP matches without sprint or their CC breakers kind of proves just how bad a LFG tool would be. You have a handful of people who either don't know how to play, or don't care that they are putting their team at a disadvantage, leeching off of the rest of the team for valor and commendations.

 

This is exactly the behavior people are afraid of if an LFG tool is implemented.

 

yea because a pve-lfg tool would encourage and most importantly allow low lvls to join hard mode raids

 

srsly w.tf?

[Moricthian]

I agree with this comment. The current LFD mechanics work pretty well if you take time to actually use them. But, people are lazy, they won't admit it, but they are so they want an auto queue, auto port to encounter style LFD.

 

AND Like I said, people really want cross server LFD, and are using their failures in /general chat (or alleged failures) as a pretense IMO.

 

Logical fallacies used:

 

Ad Hominem: Insult those who disagree with you.

 

Generalization: Lump everyone who wants a modern LFG feature as "lazy"

 

Begging the question: "The current LFD mechanics work pretty well if you take time to actually use them." You are assuming what you're trying to prove.

 

Need I continue?

[Felioats]

Same-server LFG tool is desperately needed.

 

Cross-server LFD tool would be fine, if they implemented some sensible protections against ninja looting.

[XOrionX]

I was going to quote a whole bunch of posts on this thread, but there are too many that puzzle me.

 

I am 100% in support of an LFG Q system, I think that a lot of the posts in opposition are arguing the point because each person has a different idea of what the LFG Q would be. Here is my purposal of an effective Q system.

 

1. SAME-REALM It is true that server populations are seemingly low, this is highlighted by the sheer expansiveness of the game, there may only be "42" players on the fleet at any given time, however there are many players scattered around the various worlds.

 

A proper Q system would connect players from all worlds of the game, also permitting players to enter a FP from their current questing location, also when the FP is finished they would be able to return Quest, then return to their previous location.

Let's say that you are in a guild, you find 3 other players willing to do a FP, however they are scattered across the game, you could then, form a group and enter Q (as group) Ensuring instant entry, thus saving much lost time in travel.

 

Players would still be able to LFG in chat, however they would also be able to invite friends on other worlds, invite guildmembers on other worlds. Let's admit that travel time is an issue, I have denied invites because I am in the middle of a class questline, or just questing in general. Meeting up at the fleet is frequently a time-consuming effort, especially if your Fleetpass is on CD, along with your quick-travel.

 

This feature could largely increase FP activity, and you'd be able to connect form new friendships easier.

 

How would this negatively affect community?

 

Many people within in this thread are against 'cross server' LFD's. I think a same server LFD could be ok if done properly.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there, but to keep people from sitting in fleet all day, why not limit the LFD tool a a 3 or 4 time use a day with a 18 or so hour CD? I mean, this will give someone a chance to complete some dailies and get some gear and at the same time would keep people from hanging out idle in fleet all day.

 

just a thought.

Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX

[Yuuj]

yea because a pve-lfg tool would encourage and most importantly allow low lvls to join hard mode raids

 

srsly w.tf?

 

Congratulations. You failed to recognize the behavior and furthermore you've moved onto a different topic altogether. We aren't talking about a "Looking for Operations" tool, we are talking about a flashpoint tool and comparing it to the 'successful' PvP queue system.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Yuuj

[LyriaFrost]

DDO's LFG system is still my favorite of all MMO's I've played. It was done very, very well IMO.

 

That said, I hope they don't go the lazy route and toss up a cross-server "LFD" tool like WoW did. That thing was such a huge, bad idea.

[DigitalPrime]

I agree, but it's still WAY WAY better than the FPS community,did you ever read the BF3 forums at all when that game was being released? Unreal.

 

The problem with all PC gaming communities is that PC are cheap nowadays. PCs used to be an adult gadget. Now our beloved games are filling up with kids and teens because PCs are cheap, and it shows in the community forums.

Edited February 7, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Vlaxitov]

So you acknowledge that there are "hundreds of threads about it already". So then you must know that statistically that translates into thousands and thousands of people that play the game but don't post on forums that desire a working LFD tool. You play a game, but wish it to be done harm by alienating those thousands of players.

 

Do you cut yourself too?

 

You would like us to believe that but I'm almost certain that the many threads (its likely not even hundreds of people let alone threads) are opened by players who either can't be bothered to build a network of friends or have started to sink into the consequences of a poor reputation they've built on their server for their bad behavior or just being a bad.

[Andryah]

maybe that's why you quit. but i doubt it. i know why i quit, and it had nothing to do with a part of the game that made playing it more convenient.

 

it is ONE reason why I quit. But in reality it created several other reasons that are more prominent as to why I quit. Some of the Rift servers had pretty good communities early on. The above changes quickly destroyed them for the reasons I just outlined. It made entire guilds starte behaving as douche bags, rather then just individuals. So Rifts design decisions raised the issues to new heights of absurdity IMO.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Andryah

[grueber]

if it's a purple and i cant change the major armor stat (cunning/aim w/e) then obviously i would not roll on it. i'm only talking about orange gear that i could COMPLETELY re-mod.

 

You must be real popular in groups.

[DigitalPrime]

You would like us to believe that but I'm almost certain that the many threads (its likely not even hundreds of people let alone threads) are opened by players who either can't be bothered to build a network of friends or have started to sink into the consequences of a poor reputation they've built on their server for their bad behavior or just being a bad.

 

Nail on head hit!

[Varghjerta]

You would like us to believe that but I'm almost certain that the many threads (its likely not even hundreds of people let alone threads) are opened by players who either can't be bothered to build a network of friends or have started to sink into the consequences of a poor reputation they've built on their server for their bad behavior or just being a bad.

 

This i do agree with or basicly they feel threatened knowing that they must interact and perform for not getting a bad rep aswell .

 

But as it should be

Edited February 7, 2012 by Varghjerta

[IrisCorven]

I think LFG/LFD SHOULD be in TOR? But not the current WoW version. The old version, that signs you up for a roll, and finds you a group. You still have to join up with eachother, meet up, etc. Maybe even a Ctrl-Click for missions that lets you start a LFG for that specific mission.

 

The simple... "Form Group, Teleport inside instance" crap has essentially killed the community on ALL servers, in WoW.

[XOrionX]

You must be real popular in groups.

 

Agreed. The guy is talking about needing for fashion craft purposes...

 

 

Stripped down orange gear is an "upgrade"? Does he think we are all stupid?

[suzy_lee]

Many people within in this thread are against 'cross server' LFD's. I think a same server LFD could be ok if done properly.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there, but to keep people from sitting in fleet all day, why not limit the LFD tool a a 3 or 4 time use a day with a 18 or so hour CD? I mean, this will give someone a chance to complete some dailies and get some gear and at the same time would keep people from hanging out idle in fleet all day.

 

just a thought.

 

 

 

Please No!! I would hate to see a limitation of use for a LFG/LFD system,,,no CD, No max use per day, please.

[Balrizangor]

Last night, Republic fleet on my server never goes over 60-65 players. For two hours I try to form a PUG for a hard mode flashpoint (I am a tank) with absolutely no luck. In that time I found two DPS (but not at the same time), each of who eventually gave up. How is this considered good for the game? I know people will scream that a LFG kills the community. Do you know what kills the community for than a LFG tool? People quitting the game because it is impossible to form groups to do the content. It isn't any better (probably worse actually) at lower levels also. Last week I was trying to form a group to help my brother with The Red Reaper, and we ended up having to do it with companions. Luckily I am completely overgeared for a level 45 flashpoint so we were able to do it that way.

 

I'm sure for Imperial players finding groups is easy when there are 200+ people on your fleet, but right now it seems like the only option until they add a LFG tool for Republic players is to re-roll to the more populated faction.

 

 

I don't think people are just going to quit over something like this (no one quit WoW for the 4 years prior to them adding this feature). If they do, that person was probably looking for something to blame so they could quit but make a post first.

 

I do think a cross-server LFG/LFD tool does hurt a community, one of the ways guilds will do to recruit new members is to go out and group with people on their server to see how they are. Hopefully if they do put this tool in, it will be server only and also come with some feature that lets people kick others from the group (a better version of the one WoW has currently). That, to me anyway, was the one huge problem with LFG/LFD tools (especially x-server ones) was you would get stuck with some idiot or ***, the group votes to kick and you get a 2nd one that you are stuck with.

 

I also noticed when Blizz made the tool x-server, more people acted like an *** more often because they knew they people they were with were usually on a different server so it wouldn't come back and bite them on their home server ...