Done with my sin (PvP)

[rSol]

He got fanboy gear

 

Funny how kids think anyone who doesnt think this game sucks is a fanboy. Well I found where my SS saved and here you go!

 

http://imgur.com/ySEfj

 

My memory was off and it wasnt 450k it was 415k but it was 88 kills and 2 deaths.

 

Maybe you should get some of my "fanboy" gear and use my "fanboy" spec and you could be a "fanboy" also.

 

Also here is a game I just got out of that wasnt inflated number, just normal mid defense.

 

http://imgur.com/B6plU

 

Feel free if you want actual help playing to ask any questions or if anyone is on Veela send me a tell to ask away.

 

 

EDIT before trolls: That healing is not from that shockfrozen water on my bar. I broke combat 2 times due to death and then maybe once or twice to get healed to full and in second photo it looks like I was highlighting wrong person's medals when I did the SS.

Edited February 8, 2012 by rSol

[Corydonn]

Funny how kids think anyone who doesnt think this game sucks is a fanboy. Well I found where my SS saved and here you go!

 

http://imgur.com/ySEfj

 

My memory was off and it wasnt 450k it was 415k but it was 88 kills and 2 deaths.

 

Maybe you should get some of my "fanboy" gear and use my "fanboy" spec and you could be a "fanboy" also.

 

Also here is a game I just got out of that wasnt inflated number, just normal mid defense.

 

http://imgur.com/B6plU

 

Feel free if you want actual help playing to ask any questions or if anyone is on Veela send me a tell to ask away.

 

 

EDIT before trolls: That healing is not from that shockfrozen water on my bar. I broke combat 2 times due to death and then maybe once or twice to get healed to full and in second photo it looks like I was highlighting wrong person's medals when I did the SS.

 

Why would you try to hide your Frozen Water when you clearly have the medals from using it Not to mention that it's even on your hotbar. Chheeeeeaaattteeeerrrr

[rSol]

Why would you try to hide your Frozen Water when you clearly have the medals from using it Not to mention that it's even on your hotbar. Chheeeeeaaattteeeerrrr

 

Yeah you can subtract maybe 20k (over estimate) from that 170k to account for that.

[Plexxx]

If you're getting kills with madness it is because you are fighting someone bad at their class or because they are ignoring you to fight someone else.

 

Please explain yourself or don't post. I took the time to explain my points, that dots are so weak simply using a base ability matches the damage... explain how it isn't......

 

Nope. I don't respond properly to rubbish posts by scrubs talking nonsense. To find out why you use the dots, look in the bloody tree. I don't come to the forums to hand hold.

 

It's a safe bet, with all your talk about 'burst', that you're a scrubby deception player.

[Lowerydro]

Nope. I don't respond properly to rubbish posts by scrubs talking nonsense. To find out why you use the dots, look in the bloody tree. I don't come to the forums to hand hold.

 

It's a safe bet, with all your talk about 'burst', that you're a scrubby deception player.

 

so it's "You're wrong but I can't or won't explain why".

 

And I'm actually a fan of darkness, but it translates poorly between pvp and pve (I enjoy both). That is the issue with all specs for an assassin, you get utility and are a tool in pve/pvp, you get damage and are a free kill in team pvp or a lesser dps than ranged in pve, or you get dots as a melee class when the alternate AC can do far more with them.

 

You can't explain why madness is a poor melee spec because you're either a troll or because you know it really is a poor system to give a melee close range class and refuse to accept it for some strange reason.

[Karandor]

If you want a burst spec the best is 23/18/0 and you maul like crazy with crazy force regen. Myself and my brother are both running this spec and we can destroy pretty much anything incredibly quickly. It won't get you damage numbers (250-275 in an average voidstar) on the charts but it kills extremely quickly instead of sustained DPS. If you want a bursty assassin feel it works the best. Come in stealth, blow blackout, adrenal/expertise stim and relic and your target will often die in 4 GCDs.

 

 

This spec has the best burst you can get out of stealth, you can get more damage by taking nerve wracking but the CD reduction on force cloak and blackout nets more force regen and more damage in the long run.

 

I haven't tried full tank since the patch so I can't comment on comparative effectiveness. Probably will switch to it tomorrow to give it a whirl.

[Plexxx]

so it's "You're wrong but I can't or won't explain why".

 

And I'm actually a fan of darkness, but it translates poorly between pvp and pve (I enjoy both). That is the issue with all specs for an assassin, you get utility and are a tool in pve/pvp, you get damage and are a free kill in team pvp or a lesser dps than ranged in pve, or you get dots as a melee class when the alternate AC can do far more with them.

 

You can't explain why madness is a poor melee spec because you're either a troll or because you know it really is a poor system to give a melee close range class and refuse to accept it for some strange reason.

 

Dunno where I've ever said madness is an amazing melee spec. I think I've actually quite explicitly said that it's very different from anything else. And I gave you a massive hint to look in the tree. Why can't you spam thrash? same reason you can't spam maul in any spec; you get force starved. Dots are decent damage, but often have a bonus like a snare or synergise with other talents like raze. All dots heal and restore force on ticks too, so with correct play you'll never really have force issues.

[Lowerydro]

Dunno where I've ever said madness is an amazing melee spec. I think I've actually quite explicitly said that it's very different from anything else. And I gave you a massive hint to look in the tree. Why can't you spam thrash? same reason you can't spam maul in any spec; you get force starved. Dots are decent damage, but often have a bonus like a snare or synergise with other talents like raze. All dots heal and restore force on ticks too, so with correct play you'll never really have force issues.

 

You're saying I'm wrong about the points I made about madness being weak but won't say why, then when you do try and explain it you say they are all weak.

 

Casting weak dots to restore force is pointless when there are 50% regen talents in deception and 30% in darkness....

 

You seem to try to counter the argument that madness is weak when you can simply do the same damage directly in a gcd, so please figure out WHAT YOU ARE ARGUING before you keep telling people they are wrong.

 

I like the class and like the playstyle, but BW is pushing it in the wrong direction. People like you make it hard to communicate problems effectively because you simply want to argue and say people are wrong.

 

Also checking your post history I don't think you're even 50 yet, and that makes a massive difference in this class. Well played 10-49 you can be unkillable, it is a completely different game in hard modes and in pvp at 50.

[golfwang]

If you want a burst spec the best is 23/18/0 and you maul like crazy with crazy force regen. Myself and my brother are both running this spec and we can destroy pretty much anything incredibly quickly. It won't get you damage numbers (250-275 in an average voidstar) on the charts but it kills extremely quickly instead of sustained DPS. If you want a bursty assassin feel it works the best. Come in stealth, blow blackout, adrenal/expertise stim and relic and your target will often die in 4 GCDs.

 

 

This spec has the best burst you can get out of stealth, you can get more damage by taking nerve wracking but the CD reduction on force cloak and blackout nets more force regen and more damage in the long run.

 

I haven't tried full tank since the patch so I can't comment on comparative effectiveness. Probably will switch to it tomorrow to give it a whirl.

 

...that is a terrible spec man.

[Plexxx]

You're saying I'm wrong about the points I made about madness being weak but won't say why, then when you do try and explain it you say they are all weak.

 

Casting weak dots to restore force is pointless when there are 50% regen talents in deception and 30% in darkness....

 

You seem to try to counter the argument that madness is weak when you can simply do the same damage directly in a gcd, so please figure out WHAT YOU ARE ARGUING before you keep telling people they are wrong.

 

I like the class and like the playstyle, but BW is pushing it in the wrong direction. People like you make it hard to communicate problems effectively because you simply want to argue and say people are wrong.

 

Also checking your post history I don't think you're even 50 yet, and that makes a massive difference in this class. Well played 10-49 you can be unkillable, it is a completely different game in hard modes and in pvp at 50.

 

Honestly, what the **** are you smoking? Don't even know where to start.

 

The 50% regen for 1 min is medicore, compared to a passive all the time increase that comes from doing dmg. If you have the darkness regen, you probably aren't doing much damage.

 

All I've been arguing is that madness is the best all around spec, if you can play it well. You dismissed the spec, with nonsensical arguements that miss the bigger picture. I've never said it's a pure melee spec, in fact if you play it well you'll be applying DF and dots from range to avoid getting damaged, then once all dots are on you unload with maul/thrash.

 

Dots v thrash. Yes a double crit thrash will do more damage than the dot, a 1 crit thrash probably won't do much more, and a no crit thrash will do the same or less. The value in the dots comes from being able to apply them from ranged and the passive healing and force regen. The dots, as I've previously said, synergise well with your abilties and the gain from using than is significantly higher than simply comparing tooltip dmg.

 

And really? Because I can play a spec well and better than you I'm blocking the stream of communication between you and BW. Do you actually believe the verbal garbage that comes outta your mouth (or fingers)? I actually am quite a fan of the changes they've made last patch, and I think they've done a pretty decent job. Deception is still garbage, and overall we might still be a little behind the other classes, but it's a start.

 

I've had significant success with 7/3/31, pretty much always top damage and top medals. On one of the most populated servers too, the swiftsure. I'm battlemaster (was rank 59 before illum patch), and I'm rank 66 now. So yeah I'm definitely under 50, your detective skills are top notch mate.

 

Think before posting next time, kid.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Plexxx

[golfwang]

Honestly, what the **** are you smoking? Don't even know where to start.

 

The 50% regen for 1 min is medicore, compared to a passive all the time increase that comes from doing dmg. If you have the darkness regen, you probably aren't doing much damage.

 

All I've been arguing is that madness is the best all around spec, if you can play it well. You dismissed the spec, with nonsensical arguements that miss the bigger picture. I've never said it's a pure melee spec, in fact if you play it well you'll be applying DF and dots from range to avoid getting damaged, then once all dots are on you unload with maul/thrash.

 

Dots v thrash. Yes a double crit thrash will do more damage than the dot, a 1 crit thrash probably won't do much more, and a no crit thrash will do the same or less. The value in the dots comes from being able to apply them from ranged and the passive healing and force regen. The dots, as I've previously said, synergise well with your abilties and the gain from using than is significantly higher than simply comparing tooltip dmg.

 

And really? Because I can play a spec well and better than you I'm blocking the stream of communication between you and BW. Do you actually believe the verbal garbage that comes outta your mouth (or fingers)? I actually am quite a fan of the changes they've made last patch, and I think they've done a pretty decent job. Deception is still garbage, and overall we might still be a little behind the other classes, but it's a start.

 

I've had significant success with 7/3/31, pretty much always top damage and top medals. On one of the most populated servers too, the swiftsure. I'm battlemaster (was rank 59 before illum patch), and I'm rank 66 now. So yeah I'm definitely under 50, your detective skills are top notch mate.

 

Think before posting next time, kid.

 

reading your description of madness makes the spec sound really...neutered. So you're applying your dots from range...then what?

 

From 30yards (or medium-ish range) you have death field and creeping terror. Are you hardcasting Crushing Darkness too? It seems like you're only pulling off negligble damage from range that any competent team will just dispell/heal through. On top of that, you can't really toe to toe any class.

 

I get the feeling sorcs still do it better.

 

Then again I've only been madness for a few hours...

Edited February 8, 2012 by golfwang

[Karandor]

...that is a terrible spec man.

 

Try it before you knock it. Played properly it kills stuff incredibly fast when you pop out of stealth.

[golfwang]

Try it before you knock it. Played properly it kills stuff incredibly fast when you pop out of stealth.

 

It's still a terrible spec if you're killing bad players. No offense meant to you though.

[sankalp]

It's still a terrible spec if you're killing bad players. No offense meant to you though.

 

And how do you know he is not killing good players? Coz you can't if you played his spec? Or any other ftm.

[Plexxx]

reading your description of madness makes the spec sound really...neutered. So you're applying your dots from range...then what?

 

From 30yards (or medium-ish range) you have death field and creeping terror. Are you hardcasting Crushing Darkness too? It seems like you're only pulling off negligble damage from range that any competent team will just dispell/heal through. On top of that, you can't really toe to toe any class.

 

I get the feeling sorcs still do it better.

 

Then again I've only been madness for a few hours...

 

You're right in the fact that sorcs probably do do it better, which is admittely kinda depressing.

 

By the time you've used both CT and DF, you've probably closed the gap at least to the point of shocking (for the melee dmg buff) and/or discharging. Once everythings up unload with thrash and maul. I don't follow this religously, there are of course times when using a dot might be a waste if someone is close to death. You just have to play it by ear. With this spec, thrash hits extremely hard (when it crits it's nearly 2x more dmg than deception 31 point), so your melee dmg is still very high.

 

Of course only maul with proc up, and it still hits super hard. Only thing you're missing is induction, but now only deception specs can use that talent anyway, and deception is awful.

 

Comboing recklessness + trinket + deathfield on 3 players is ~9k dmg straight up. So you can actually do a lot of front up burst damage, but in general your burst damage takes a couple of gcds to build up.

 

Instant WW is also incredibly useful for those 2v1 or 3v1 situations.

 

In general, you don't lose much melee damage going into madness. Deception has so many useless talents and darkness (apart from the tier 1 talents) doesn't really buff melee either.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention, no never cast CD. After the patch though, once you put discharge up, raze procs pretty much first hit. The new talent that reduces discharge cd to 0 is extremely nice too, makes swapping targets super easy when it wasn't so before.

 

And no, I barely see anyone dispel. You just need to put enough pressure on them to force them to spam heal, and the dots just tick away.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Plexxx

[Dedjopa]

I'll level my BH because it seems like premades of troopers win every WZ in my server. I once had 6 troopers on the other team and it was like a firing squad at the voidstar door. 3k+ grav rounds? What skill of mine hits that high? Oh right, none. My highest hit is consistently around 3.3k full dps spec. Thats messed up. Yet I get wasted by a ranged healing class in seconds before I can get close enough (they reveal stealth btw).

 

****. How much more of these threads? There is only one answer for all these posts: Learn to Play your class. If you can't, then it seems the class is not for you and you should try something else! And what 3.3K are you talking about? I used to hit 3.8K backstabs on my 24 lvl shadow and that's on 49 lvl players.

Yes, the class a bit squishy, but every class is, if they get focused by more than 2 ppl.

Overall, assassins provide really good burst damage, just learn to use cloak-vanish tactics when it's getting hot and you are all set.

[Tooslick]

...that is a terrible spec man.

 

Wrong...that was a fantastic spec when Induction procced off dark charge. I still think it's pretty strong despite the change but no longer fantastic. Still plenty viable though. Like the man said, it's certainly not for everyone and suits a particular playstyle.

 

Great survivability through the darkness tree and you still get solid burst that's very maul proc dependent.

[golfwang]

And how do you know he is not killing good players? Coz you can't if you played his spec? Or any other ftm.

 

Because it's unfocused and doesn't synergize with itself at all. What is that spec trying to do? It looks like everything. No competent player will lose to this spec in a 1v1, sorry. And you'd be a wasted spot in high level team play.

[golfwang]

Wrong...that was a fantastic spec when Induction procced off dark charge. I still think it's pretty strong despite the change but no longer fantastic. Still plenty viable though. Like the man said, it's certainly not for everyone and suits a particular playstyle.

 

Great survivability through the darkness tree and you still get solid burst that's very maul proc dependent.

 

You mean to tell me that this:

 

Is good? lolol

 

-Induction nerfed

-Speced into surging charge but...also speced into energize and dark ward.

-No chain shock

 

Its not a spec for good players because it's bad. If you can't see that you're probably bad at pvp. Sorry to break it to you.

 

I'm sure you're a nice guy irl.

[Yadeniel]

Funny how kids think anyone who doesnt think this game sucks is a fanboy. Well I found where my SS saved and here you go!

 

http://imgur.com/ySEfj

 

My memory was off and it wasnt 450k it was 415k but it was 88 kills and 2 deaths.

 

Maybe you should get some of my "fanboy" gear and use my "fanboy" spec and you could be a "fanboy" also.

 

Also here is a game I just got out of that wasnt inflated number, just normal mid defense.

 

http://imgur.com/B6plU

 

Feel free if you want actual help playing to ask any questions or if anyone is on Veela send me a tell to ask away.

 

 

EDIT before trolls: That healing is not from that shockfrozen water on my bar. I broke combat 2 times due to death and then maybe once or twice to get healed to full and in second photo it looks like I was highlighting wrong person's medals when I did the SS.

 

That was clearly a LONG warzone, where everyone got high dmg, sorcerers/sages and some guardian/marauder did more dmg than u, almost same healing. So u didnt shine there, except for some more medals, who cares about medals..

 

Even, who cares about stats? u could be the most useful and decisive player of the warzone and have one of the worst stats of it...

 

Madness is like a retarded sorcerer, a sorcerer that runs in melee instead of dotting from safe range, melees and other dps wont need to catch u, cos u will be rushing in melee with ur awesome survability (light armor, wow).

 

Logged my sage yesterday and i felt like a completed class again.. not a wannabe sorc without strong shields, heals, dots and nukes free fron range, bla bla bla..

[Yadeniel]

****. How much more of these threads? There is only one answer for all these posts: Learn to Play your class. If you can't, then it seems the class is not for you and you should try something else! And what 3.3K are you talking about? I used to hit 3.8K backstabs on my 24 lvl shadow and that's on 49 lvl players.

Yes, the class a bit squishy, but every class is, if they get focused by more than 2 ppl.

Overall, assassins provide really good burst damage, just learn to use cloak-vanish tactics when it's getting hot and you are all set.

 

ANother guy who doesnt have a clue, hit 50, get battlemaster and see mauls of 470 against tropper+shield, on light armor with proc up is like 1500 or so, im almost full battlemaster...

 

Trash is doing more dmg for me, imnot deception.. but 30%crit dmg on maul isnt gonna make it hit like 4k.. u know.

 

Bolster is bolster..

[rSol]

That was clearly a LONG warzone, where everyone got high dmg, sorcerers/sages and some guardian/marauder did more dmg than u, almost same healing. So u didnt shine there, except for some more medals, who cares about medals..

 

Even, who cares about stats? u could be the most useful and decisive player of the warzone and have one of the worst stats of it...

 

Madness is like a retarded sorcerer, a sorcerer that runs in melee instead of dotting from safe range, melees and other dps wont need to catch u, cos u will be rushing in melee with ur awesome survability (light armor, wow).

 

Logged my sage yesterday and i felt like a completed class again.. not a wannabe sorc without strong shields, heals, dots and nukes free fron range, bla bla bla..

 

 

Did you even read my first post which you called me a fanboy? I said this was a long WZ where it was non stop fighting at mid. In no way do I do this every single time. This was only to show that the spec is viable compared to other things (everyone else was in this same long WZ doing the same thing the entire time)

 

EDIT after re reading your post: Are you even an assassin or know how they are played?! Of course a sorc/sage is going to have more healing than me, all of my heals are built into my damage so I dont expect to have more healing than someone who can stop and heal multiple different people. And you are really saying that isnt good because a DPS specced sorc/sage did more damage than a tank class who spent alot of time protecting my healers and interrupting their healers.

 

EDIT 2: Also that more damage than me put half kills looks like a lot more productive damage to you?

Edited February 8, 2012 by rSol

[tXHereticXt]

Sent/Marauders are the kings of melee dps in this game and I don't see the reason for any premade to bring a deception/madness sin over sent/marauder.

 

Well unfortunately that's balance for you. You're a hybrid class comparing yourself to a class(es) that has only one profession. A Sin shouldn't nor never deal as much damage as a Mar/Sent because then you just tip the scales to the other end - people end up discarding Mar/Sent instead because the Sin would perform better.

 

I don't know what to tell you. If your friends are kicking you out for some random pug whose class you envy, then you need to get new friends. If you are pugging it, well... find some friends.

[golfwang]

Well unfortunately that's balance for you. You're a hybrid class comparing yourself to a class(es) that has only one profession. A Sin shouldn't nor never deal as much damage as a Mar/Sent because then you just tip the scales to the other end - people end up discarding Mar/Sent instead because the Sin would perform better.

 

I don't know what to tell you. If your friends are kicking you out for some random pug whose class you envy, then you need to get new friends. If you are pugging it, well... find some friends.

 

Lets be honest, that's utter ********. Deception sins can pull out some pretty jaw dropping burst but the setup, extreme lack of survivability and lacking utility makes them inferior in comparison to sents/marauders who have easier to apply/higher pressure, awesome defensive cds and awesome group utility.

 

Their trees are even better designed. And compare the utility of the lvl 50 abilities:

Valorous Call (full centering/fury) vs. Overcharge Saber (marginal/random charge buff). It's no contest...not even close.

 

Thats not balanced, its poor design. In fact its obvious sents/marauders are insane when geared right now. Arguably over powered.

 

You clearly didn't read most of what I posted. I'm not saying I've been dropped by people running premades, I'm saying that if I were running them, I'd only use tankasins (maybe).

DPS sins are too fragile and outclassed by other melee.

Edited February 8, 2012 by golfwang

[Yamazaki]

This class is borked and should be renamed.