Are Sith really evil?

Jorander · February 15, 2012

Evil is a subjective term, but in the Star Wars world the Sith are definitely evil. They use hatred as a motivating force. Yoda told us Sith use lies and deception to get what they want (true...see Palps, Dookoo, the planet Voss). That sounds like a pretty corrupted group of people if you ask me. However, if you play an empire character you will find lots of "normal" NPC's in the Empire...Sith included...which is a lot closer to what real life would be like.

I think the movies have shown that all users of the dark side are morally corrupted o a degree, some more than others. I think the game mirrors this.

I just want to note that depending on which specific definition you are talking about concerning the word, "evil," it may or may not be. One definition of evil is summed up simply as malevolence, harsh and painful action. That is pretty objective, as most of us here can feel physical pain. Now watch how fast that definition can be turned into a functioning platform. Yay maxim of correct desire, and thank you Greek philosophers for giving it to us.

Jorander · February 15, 2012

Watch the timeline video about the Jedi and the Great Hyperspace War....

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/timeline

No one is innocent.

Not all of the information in there is accurate, and it doesn't matter anyway, as the Sith were the ones who did all the real damage to the Sith in that fight. Not like they still didn't have their actual homeworld of Ziost to fall back to, as well as their other sacred worlds in that cluster. Even if the goal of the Jedi was to kill all of the Sith on Korriban, you would have found nothing but military personal and powerful sith priests, as Korriban was a funerary world, and not a major population center. Now say for the moment that the Jedi were fixing to commit full blown genocide as it is typically understood. I am talking the wholesale slaughter of cowering women and children who are helpless to defend themselves.

If that was the will of the Force, then not only will Jedi do it, but they should, because it was good for the galaxy, and possibly in some way even good for the victims, depending on how much their overuse of the dark side had twisted the cores of their beings, as it does with the Sith race. No, I am not attempting to argue for or justify genocide, I just want people to think before getting hung up on buzzwords like genocide, good, and evil.

iloveicarly · February 15, 2012

GUYS you never seen the clone wars episode 36 where anikin has a cringe for evil I mean it is all over the books too.Includeing in game lore! the sith is an evil dark side power control freaks!

Shadinaxx · February 15, 2012

The sith do not operate off of positive emotions - True

The dark side is inherently evil and negative - True

The dark side powers are fueled by negative emotions - True

Star Wars has clearly defined good and evil - True

The jedi don't seek to become emotionless - True

The jedi still experience positive emotions - True

Dark jedi and light sith - the product of bad writers who don't understand the very basic concepts that Star Wars and the force are built upon.

Dark Jedi are not neccessarillay the result of bad writers, I think Mace Windu's story is very well written, and in my eyes, a more balanced jedi than most.

Light Sith may have been otherwise taught the jedi ways were it not for the sith getting them first,. or the jedi refusing to teach them because they burned ants as a child.

The Dark Side Powers are fueled by negative emotions , true, I'll give you that, but the balanced sith also uses those negative emotions for good, ie, rage one feels when a loved one is hurt or made to suffer.

I dissagree that the dark side is inherantly evil. I would agree that the unrestrained access and use of these powers that are fueled by such emotions/passions (most powerful ones being negative in most cases) being a breeeding ground for bullies, but that is in EVERY society. If we did not have police, we would have fuedalistic societies.

Otherwise, you have the right idea on the other points, altho I would clarify that the jedi are warned away from experiancing most of the positive emotions, strongest being love that leadds to attachment, most likely due to that fine line of people losing control when trust is broken. A master to padawan relationship is still by definition, an attachment.

ProfessorWalsh · February 15, 2012

Dark Jedi are not neccessarillay the result of bad writers, I think Mace Windu's story is very well written, and in my eyes, a more balanced jedi than most.

Mace Windu isn't a Dark Jedi.

alricka · February 15, 2012

Mace Windu isn't a Dark Jedi.

He's close, though. In his later years he's almost skimming across the surface of the Dark Side. Not quite, almost, but still. Even Vaapad reflects it - in order to master and use it properly, one must allow himself to feel aggression and to be excited by the rush of the fight, which is totally unlike the ortodox Jedi like Obi-Wan or Yoda.

In Episode 3's novelization it's noted a bunch of times that Mace's way of thinking is increasingly detoriating towards the darkness; Obi-Wan is even surprised by this change in personality in the beginning. After the reveal of Sidious' true personality, Mace suggests that the Jedi may need to overthrow the whole Senate and take power into their own hands, just to be sure and that the possibility of public unrest is meaningless, a politican's argument. Which is exactly what Sidious later told the Senate to demonize and antagonize them in front of the public (and it worked).

Dionlight · February 15, 2012

Here's how I see it.

The Sith Code and the Jedi Code are both equally good in their own right. The Sith Code encourages the use of emotions and letting them fuel your drive to be ( one of) the best things to ever happen. The Jedi Code encourages deep thought and control, to save yourself from the emotional pain day to day life may bring.

There is nothing wrong with either. Now the Sith at the top of the food chain are evil, not those who are, say, acolytes, slaves and Imperial soldiers. Why? Because they just follow orders. They do what they have to do to survive( Evident by the Sith starter zones). Their masters are the ones that are telling them that mercy is "this" and compassion is "that". Though there are some on the Empire who don't think that way at all.

Hell, during the Sith warrior storyline I heard there was a Sith lord teaching people how to control ones emotions; and his *** was going to be killed( I was light-sided). On my Inquisitor I started, someone told me to be careful before heading out as a warning about the training. On my Sith warrior again I had to save a Darth on Corellia and he was a jolly mo'fo.

The Sith at the top are the most evil sons a b****es you will ever see because they we're brought up to be like that from other ex- Sith Lords. The Jedi may be more righteous but they sure as hell aren't all good. The two masters on Tython telling YOU to sneak on the couple instead of walking up to them and guiding them, their obsession with getting rid of passion and at the same time claim genocide on the Sith, and their once "herp derp" mindset of not defending a planet from the Mandolarians because getting involved would have been a pain.

The high class Sith are the guys who would do anything for power and the high class Jedi are the guys who sit back and don't do **** until someone touches their crystals the wrong way.

If anyone is at fault it's the Starwars movies and it's history. How can people devoid of any emotion they wish to express be automatically perceived as "Guardians of the 'Light' have my children pl0x! " / people who do harness their emotions will automatically fall to the darkside without so much as a concern for others, is beyond me. And there is ALWAYS that one person that just f***s it up for everyone.

dmtblitzkrieg · February 16, 2012

in the end the jedi and sith are both flawed as we all know. the sith are in the end created by the jedi when they demand death of all "dark siders". so is it bad that the sith want revenge for being misunderstood? within that is where the main mindset of the sith gives birth. if im gonna be called the bad guy might as well be the bad guy. this is drilled into all apprentices to be their mindset as well. nothing in the sith teaching are evil just as nothing in the jedi teachings are good. and peace is a lie to me means to not become complacent with what you have learned as the jedi constantly call for peace and balance but in actuality they completely bar themselves from it by fearing to explore all aspects of the force and their oppressive rules to their members while the sith seek more knowledge and to grasp more power and usage of the force. in the end both the sith and jedi are crippled by the common mindset of both factions. this is why their are fewer force users that find a more "grey" following. luke skywalker is obviously a great example "its all in the eu if you doubt my theroy" many also believe that Qui gon is another example and though kyle katarn always fears falling to the dark side he could be looked at as another. the jedi seek balance and the sith seek knowledge but in the end just as all cultures tjey too have an Achilles heel and its the common mindset that is passed down. so no the sith are not evil. my opinion is both balance and a constant search of knowledge of all areas of the force can be attained by simply wisdom and looking at all point of views with a complete view of all aspects and to gain an understanding where your place in the force is. my final example is if the jedi would of looked at the coming of the chosen one as a bad omen and that the chosen one DID EXCATLY what was needed to balance the force and further the chosen was was needed due to the sith over meddling with midi clorians

(i know they had no clue and its in the darth plagueis book)

and the jedi not evloving with the change of times and becoming stagnant in the force but they were blinded by their point of view. and if anakin was allowed to discover the force without the restraints of the jedi and the constant mind play by sidious. or if qui gon was simply the one to train him then he would of found the path of complete understanding prior instead of moments after he dies.

runar_smugler · February 16, 2012

The penalty for doing something that goes against the "norm" in the sith empire (as a sith empire citicen) is probably death, in contrast to the same thing that happen to a republic citicen that does something "wrong" (probably jail or "frozen-out" of sosiety). That leaves me to believe that the sith empire is more totalitaere (dictatorship), in contrast to the more "democratic" society of the republic. I know what I choose!

As far as jedi's are concerned, I believe they hold themselves as the protector of the republic and the light side force. And to best be able to do their job (and calling) they need a code to live by. This code discourage "sexual" relationships and encourage moderation etc. But I cant recall ever seeing a jedi discourage non-jedi's from any sexual relationships (marriage etc). To my knowledge, the Jedi's dont want all people and other races to have the same "code" as they do. I think the Jedi see their "code" as a nececity to be able to manage being the "keeper of peace".

As far as Sith being evil or not. I think its easier to get away with "evil" acts within the sith empire....and when violence and force, along with "follow your passion and desire" is encouraged (by the siths), its easy to naturally slide into some evil things along your way.

dazednconfuzed · February 16, 2012

...they despise the Jedi for existing, while the Jedi fight the Sith when the Sith do bad things.

Rubbish!!! The Sith had been beaten back and were no longer a threat when the Jedi Council supported the invasion of Korriban and the extermination of the Sith race.

If genocide isn't evil, what is it?

Kiralai · February 16, 2012

Rubbish!!! The Sith had been beaten back and were no longer a threat when the Jedi Council supported the invasion of Korriban and the extermination of the Sith race.

If genocide isn't evil, what is it?

Yeah, I was under the impression that one of the main reasons Sith do hate Jedi so much is because, you know, the Jedi tried to exterminate them.

Cordarn · February 16, 2012

Sith pureblood from wiki:

The Sith, known alternatively as Red Sith or Sith Purebloods, were a species of red–skinned Humanoids that originated on the world of Korriban, before finally settling on the ice-world of Ziost. Also distinct for their bone spurs, facial tentacles, and genetic predispositions toward both left–handedness and the dark side of the Force, the Sith species coalesced into an empire ruled first by kings known as Sith'ari, and later by Dark Lords. Despite a society dominated by barbarism and infighting, Sith civilization culminated in a Golden Age, after which the species was all but scattered across the galaxy. An eponymous dark side tradition took the species' name, one that, despite numerous manifestations over time, maintained foundations borne of the customs, science and magic practiced by the ancient Sith species.

Sith order from wiki:

The Sith Order was a sect of Force-sensitives who utilized the dark side of the Force. The term "Sith" originally referred to a species of alien native to the planets Korriban and Ziost, who were later enslaved and ruled by exiled Dark Jedi from the Galactic Republic. These Dark Jedi had once been members of the Jedi Order, a monastic Force religion dedicated to peace through the use of the light side of the Force. The Dark Jedi, who refused to rely exclusively on the light side, challenged the Jedi by giving into the dark and starting the Hundred-Year Darkness. However, they had been defeated and subsequently exiled from known space, which led to their discovery of the Sith species. Following centuries of interbreeding and mixing of cultures between the aliens and the exiles, the Sith would no longer be identified by their race, but by their dedication to the ancient Sith philosophy. This religious order would survive in many different incarnations throughout galactic history. The rise of a new leader, or Dark Lord, would often cause drastic reorganizations in the cult, however the Sith would always be characterized by their lust for power and their desire to destroy the Jedi Order.

The Sith were the most infamous of all dark side religions, and the members of the cult were often seen as the pinnacle of power within the dark side. Throughout their long history, the Sith commanded

the jedi order from wiki:

A Jedi was a member of the Jedi Order, who studied, served and used the mystical energies of the Force; usually, the light side of the Force. The weapon of the Jedi is the lightsaber, a weapon with a blade made of pure energy. The Jedi fought for peace and justice in the Galactic Republic, usually against their mortal enemies, the Sith and Dark Jedi, who studied the dark side of the Force. Although the Order was almost destroyed twice, first by the Sith Empire of Darth Revan and 4,000 years later by the Great Jedi Purge of Darth Sidious, the Order lived on due in large part to the efforts of Luke Skywalker, who forged a New Jedi Order to defend first the New Republic, and later its successor, the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances.

Contents

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History of the JediEDIT.

"Remember, a Jedi fights only as a last resort. If you are forced to draw your lightsaber, you have already forfeited much of your advantage. A Jedi trusts the Force and at first seeks other ways to resolve problems: patience, logic, tolerance, attentive listening, negotiation, persuasion, calming techniques. But there are times when a Jedi must fight."

―Luke Skywalker to his students.[src]

Blue Glass Arrow.svg Main articles: Jedi Order and New Jedi Order

Yoda, one of the most renowned and powerful Jedi in galactic history

Originally formed as a philosophical study group situated on the planet Tython, the Jedi became revered as guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. As mystical wielders of the Force and of their signature lightsabers, their powers inspired all citizens in the galaxy. The calm, considered demeanor of the Jedi made them ideal brokers of peace in times of conflict or dispute. Yet, for all their power and diversity, the Jedi were few. Often beset by foes in times of doubt and confusion, undercurrents of evil often challenged their order and the establishment they served, the most notable being the Sith. These dark warriors were the antithesis of the Jedi, their sworn enemies, and the battle between them brought the galaxy to war more than once. In times of crisis, the Sith could even use the dark side of the Force to diminish the powers of the Jedi, and prevent them from sensing the future.

My own comments:

The sith seems to me to feed on death and fear and laugh on it. Cruelty isn't good. The jedi order only ever wants peace its the sith who provoke the conflict because they love to kill. The sith are evil and the jedi are good. Classifying sith evil and in the dark side was a wise classification because they always were of the dark side and killed when the wanted with no conscience.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Cordarn

Farho · February 16, 2012

If we can expect an evil person to kill innocents for fun or opress the weak for your own profit, sith are not evil.

If you find taking revenge, acting emotional, breaking a few eggs to make an omelette or helping the needy for a price, acts of evil, then yes the sith is evil.

Cordarn · February 16, 2012

If we can expect an evil person to kill innocents for fun or opress the weak for your own profit, sith are not evil.

If you find taking revenge, acting emotional, breaking a few eggs to make an omelette or helping the needy for a price, acts of evil, then yes the sith is evil.

You have a very backwards perspective of the sith. Lucas wanted the sith to be evil. Can't change that.

SalsaDMA · February 16, 2012

You have a very backwards perspective of the sith. Lucas wanted the sith to be evil. Can't change that.

If I paint a picture and paint the sky red, it doesn't matter that I "intended" the sky to be blue. I still painted it red.

You seem to have a pretty predjudiced mind of the sith, given your quote.

Cordarn · February 16, 2012

If I paint a picture and paint the sky red, it doesn't matter that I "intended" the sky to be blue. I still painted it red.

You seem to have a pretty predjudiced mind of the sith, given your quote.

Read my upper post it will prove my point considering I have wiki backing me up.

SalsaDMA · February 16, 2012

Read my upper post it will prove my point considering I have wiki backing me up.

Wiki?

Um.. sure.. what ever...

I have the game backing me up. I thought that was what we were discussing in the game forums?

Cordarn · February 16, 2012

Wiki is the source of the game. Wiki is all of star wars WIKI is your friend:eek: lol Anyways wiki shows the sith for what theyh are and what the jedi are.

RyomaNagare · February 16, 2012

Yes. The Sith are evil. There really isn't much else to say.

I mean come on.

SalsaDMA · February 16, 2012

Wiki is the source of the game. Wiki is all of star wars WIKI is your friend:eek: lol Anyways wiki shows the sith for what theyh are and what the jedi are.

You're toting a user generated media as a basis for your argument against the hardcoded data inside the game?

As I said: Whatever.

Predjudice clearly got the better of you and it's pointless to argue with you in this regard as you are ignoring the data evident in the game.

You should try playing a light side Sith one day and see for yourself how wrong you are.