ANALYSIS: Scoundrel is the Worst Class in the Game at Everything

[pinkink]

Oh boy... You are probably just trolling but I'll reply nonetheless.

 

We are talking about relative population. If you are playing in 8vs8 warzones and a couple of weeks ago out of those 16 players lets say there were an average of 3 Scoundrels/Operatives per game and by now that average has dropped below 1 ---> that would be a significant decrease in Op/Sco player population

 

It doesn't matter at all if there are overall fewer players on your server than before (on mine that isn't the case btw). But like your signature states you are "off til 1.2" so I guess you really know quite a lot about what the class population on your server looks like right now.

 

 

But probably everything that I just explained to you doesn't concern you because you were only here to nitpick and make fun of people anyways, right?

 

 

Well Vindictus EU got new class out, Aion 3.0 goes live on 13 of March on my server. Something New to relax with. Rather then 2 WZ. And constantly decreasing server population.

 

I didnt try to nitpick and make fun of people. I am protecting my favourite class from whiners.

 

I believe BW knows what they doing, and Scoundrel in SWTOR got good future.

Edited March 3, 2012 by pinkink

[Ich_Bin]

well if RF population was 200 and now hardly 100 more often in 70 - 80

 

 

Lets say before was 2 scoundrels out of 200 now it`s 0.8. c the logic?

 

Already answered and disproven in my post above. I'll let you think about the word "relative" a little bit longer.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[DunsparrowSolo]

You can dissemble all you want on some of the points, but you can't make excuses about the population. Scoundrel/Operative are the least played class in the game, and its very easy to confirm with /who checks on any randomly chosen servers. You can also tell because the Scoundrel/Op forums are the least active.

[pinkink]

You can dissemble all you want on some of the points, but you can't make excuses about the population. Scoundrel/Operative are the least played class in the game, and its very easy to confirm with /who checks on any randomly chosen servers. You can also tell because the Scoundrel/Op forums are the least active.

 

Least popular = Worst Class at Everything

 

Interesting Logic

[wargonglok]

i read the entire thing, and there are some good arguments in there, but do you want a buff for scoundrel, or a nerf for everything else?

[Aetou]

i read the entire thing, and there are some good arguments in there, but do you want a buff for scoundrel, or a nerf for everything else?

 

A small survivability buff for all Scoundrels (i.e., fix Defense Screen to make it worthwhile - perhaps about 4k damage and off the GCD?) More general ranged/melee mechanics imbalance tweaks. Small nerfs on hybrid Sorcerer and Bounty Hunter builds. Fix Dirty Fighting (major job.) Smallish buffs for Sawbones.

[Ich_Bin]

Least popular = Worst Class at Everything

 

Interesting Logic

 

You are nitpicking again. We have said over and over that by "least popular class" we mean the fact that Scoundrel/Operative numbers have been decreasing significantly over the past weeks.

 

-Sco/Op numbers were quite low on release (back then the least popular class was gunslinger/sniper), this has nothing to do with class balance.

-Sco/Op numbers have been decreasing significantly over the past weeks (by now they are the least popular class), this has everything to do with class balance.

[pinkink]

i just disagree with topic. Thats it.

 

We need some tweaks, and they will come, as some nerfs to other classes.

 

But claim us being worst is just WRONG.

 

No more posts from me here.

[Powderhorn]

I'd like to see our class more clearly defined. It's a class that doesn't know if it's a healer, a melee burst DPS, or a ranged sustained DPS, and does poorly at all three. Add into it nothing like a push or pull or an immunity thereof, and you have a very lackluster experience. Edited March 3, 2012 by Powderhorn

[halfhourofpower]

I'd like to see our class more clearly defined. It's a class that doesn't know if it's a healer, a melee burst DPS, or a ranged sustained DPS, and does poorly at all three. Add into it nothing like a push or pull or an immunity thereof, and you have a very lackluster experience.

 

Shut up. Dirty fighting is a melee spec, not ranged sustained dps. We do good burst and we have the best emergancy heals in the game. So just shut up, so annoyed with people saying how horribly we're doing when I'm excelling. When a class is nerfed they don't become useless, they become more balanced with everything else. We still produce high numbers, just not as blatantly high and unstoppable as they were before. People fool themselves into thinking they're good with an easy spec and when it gets a little more punishing if you mess up the rotation they think their class is broken. The common discourse surrounding our class is wrong, so very wrong. Compared to a shadow we seem lackluster because of the utility our rivals have, and yes they have much more versatility, but our trees offer a unique playstyle that greatly differs from shadows and appeals to different people. I don't want a knockback or a pull, it wouldn't make sense as a scoundrel to have that and I don't want to be a shadow mirror.

[blarse]

we have the best emergancy heals in the game.

 

Not sure if serious

 

Also, try being slightly more polite in your retorts.

[JackBurden]

We need some tweaks, and they will come, as some nerfs to other classes.

 

Amen.

[halfhourofpower]

Not sure if serious

 

Also, try being slightly more polite in your retorts.

 

It just gets really annoying after a while, sorry man.

 

We get free heals under 30% for 2-3k a GCD. I'm being completly serious. No other healer can dish out that much healing. Though a lot of healers will cast emergancy medpack past 30%, lose the upper hand stack, then have to hope for a lucky hot proc or cast the longheal to get a stack back if they drop below the threshold, gotta be smart with your stacks/casts. Though, if you are, no other class can contend.

[Ich_Bin]

It just gets really annoying after a while, sorry man.

 

We get free heals under 30% for 2-3k a GCD. I'm being completly serious. No other healer can dish out that much healing. Though a lot of healers will cast emergancy medpack past 30%, lose the upper hand stack, then have to hope for a lucky hot proc or cast the longheal to get a stack back if they drop below the threshold, gotta be smart with your stacks/casts. Though, if you are, no other class can contend.

 

I believe you are just misunderstanding the arguments of other players in this thread. You are talking about Scoundrels specced into healing while others are basing their discussion on Scrappers.

[blarse]

It just gets really annoying after a while, sorry man.

 

We get free heals under 30% for 2-3k a GCD. I'm being completly serious. No other healer can dish out that much healing. Though a lot of healers will cast emergancy medpack past 30%, lose the upper hand stack, then have to hope for a lucky hot proc or cast the longheal to get a stack back if they drop below the threshold, gotta be smart with your stacks/casts. Though, if you are, no other class can contend.

 

The problem is letting people get below 30% is generally a way to get people killed

[DunsparrowSolo]

It just gets really annoying after a while, sorry man.

 

We get free heals under 30% for 2-3k a GCD. I'm being completly serious. No other healer can dish out that much healing. Though a lot of healers will cast emergancy medpack past 30%, lose the upper hand stack, then have to hope for a lucky hot proc or cast the longheal to get a stack back if they drop below the threshold, gotta be smart with your stacks/casts. Though, if you are, no other class can contend.

 

Every other healer can dish out MORE healing. Troopers essentially get free heals 100% of the time because they never run out of ammo. Sages can likewise stack their regen and have such a large force pool that they won't run out of heals either.

 

Your 2-3k is on crit heals when the target is below 30%. If it doesn't crit, your friend is dead. Plus, they just nerfed surge, which hurts Scoundrel healers and DPS more than any other class so you can take 10% off those crits from EMP. And, we get almost no benefit from alacrity, so we can't drop surge like the other healers.

 

In fact, Scoundrels are the worst healer, even when the target is below 30%.

[halfhourofpower]

I believe you are just misunderstanding the arguments of other players in this thread. You are talking about Scoundrels specced into healing while others are basing their discussion on Scrappers.

 

Well, for this particular case I was responding to a comment about our healing.

[halfhourofpower]

The problem is letting people get below 30% is generally a way to get people killed

 

You don't 'let' them get below 30%, you heal them normally but when they do dip below that number you have the best tools to keep them from dying, if you're smart with them. Its easy to lose a stack mistakenly when the threat isn't gone.

[halfhourofpower]

Every other healer can dish out MORE healing. Troopers essentially get free heals 100% of the time because they never run out of ammo. Sages can likewise stack their regen and have such a large force pool that they won't run out of heals either.

 

Your 2-3k is on crit heals when the target is below 30%. If it doesn't crit, your friend is dead. Plus, they just nerfed surge, which hurts Scoundrel healers and DPS more than any other class so you can take 10% off those crits from EMP. And, we get almost no benefit from alacrity, so we can't drop surge like the other healers.

 

In fact, Scoundrels are the worst healer, even when the target is below 30%.

 

The 2k is a noncrit. And most scoundrels will have minimum 30% crit so a third of your heals will be crits. So 2-3k each GCD plus hot ticks every three seconds. Its a lot of healing. Try and think of -any- class that can dish out 2-3k hits every gcd. They can't. Try and think of a healer who can do the same, you can't. Also, as a scoundrel our resource is limitless as well, if managed properly. I'd say scoundrel is the hardest healer to play but I would never say its the worst. I'm regularly on top in warzones. And as we've no parses to compare the three, we can't know how the three compare to eachother other then our own subjective and limited testing of the three choices. Scoundrels are also underplayed and underrepresented, the metagame currently frowns upon them but I'm guessing that will change as scoundrels get better.

 

I play all three specs of the scoundrel and I suppose its a little frustrating because I have to constantly justify my class spec to nonguildies who haven't had much experience with strong scoundrels and they just turn you away because 'they heard scoundrels were bad'.

[DunsparrowSolo]

The 2k is a noncrit. And most scoundrels will have minimum 30% crit so a third of your heals will be crits. So 2-3k each GCD plus hot ticks every three seconds. Its a lot of healing. Try and think of -any- class that can dish out 2-3k hits every gcd. They can't. Try and think of a healer who can do the same, you can't. Also, as a scoundrel our resource is limitless as well, if managed properly. I'd say scoundrel is the hardest healer to play but I would never say its the worst. I'm regularly on top in warzones. And as we've no parses to compare the three, we can't know how the three compare to eachother other then our own subjective and limited testing of the three choices. Scoundrels are also underplayed and underrepresented, the metagame currently frowns upon them but I'm guessing that will change as scoundrels get better.

 

I play all three specs of the scoundrel and I suppose its a little frustrating because I have to constantly justify my class spec to nonguildies who haven't had much experience with strong scoundrels and they just turn you away because 'they heard scoundrels were bad'.

 

EMP is a nice boost, but its not keeping anyone alive below 30% except in 1v1 situations. Thats simple fact.

[halfhourofpower]

EMP is a nice boost, but its not keeping anyone alive below 30% except in 1v1 situations. Thats simple fact.

 

Fact, huh? Sounds ENTIRELY speculative to me. EMP is never alone, there are hots in addition. I've kept someone from dying with a group of 3-4 on them. Other times I've prolonged their life for roughly ten seconds or so, which makes a world of difference in a team fight. And my point was, Sawbones emergancy healing capabilities far outrank the other two classes.

[OniGanon]

Were those 4 people just autoattacking the whole time or what?

[Ich_Bin]

When 3-4 people are attacking someone on my team who is below 30% HP as sawbones I usually can keep that person alive only for a few more seconds, even if it is a tank. It can still be nice especially against bad opponents that stop doing burst when their target gets below 10% because they think they don't need to anymore. But against decent players using EM is just delaying the inevitable.

 

But when 3-4 people are attacking my scoundrel (in medium armor) and my buddy (Sage healer) is nearby, he can heal me from 5% to 100% very quickly and easiely. I don't even have to use defensive screen. Those guys around me can just pound on me nonstop and there is literally no chance of me dying unless someone interrupts my friends heals.

 

 

That said I think scoundrel healers are in fact "fine" but sages are far too strong. If you have ever played PvP against a team that had 3 or more decent sorc/sage healers in them you know what I am talking about.

 

Oh and this brings me to another point. PvP these days is being dominated by healer + tank teams because healers in this game can do insane healing and well played tanks can do great damage. When rated warzones come out those teams is all that you are going to see.

The funny part is that there was one class specifically designed to be able to break that healer/tank cycle ...But that class is no longer able to do that job anymore.

Guess which class I am talking about

Edited March 4, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[DunsparrowSolo]

Fact, huh? Sounds ENTIRELY speculative to me. EMP is never alone, there are hots in addition. I've kept someone from dying with a group of 3-4 on them. Other times I've prolonged their life for roughly ten seconds or so, which makes a world of difference in a team fight. And my point was, Sawbones emergancy healing capabilities far outrank the other two classes.

 

You have never kept someone alive with 3 people attacking them with HoTs and EMP. To claim you have is a transparent lie.

 

With 2x SRMP on them you are getting ~1k every 3 seconds. With EMP you are getting 2-3k every GCD. This means you're doing about 1.5k HPS MAX and that is being extremely liberal. For this to be true, the 3 people attacking your friend are doing 700 damage per attack. And you said 3-4 people.

 

In other words, you're a big fat liar.

 

UWM crits for 6k+ every 2 seconds, which is 3k HPS and could potentially heal against burst damage, but it is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and you cant spam it because you'll blow all your energy in < 10 seconds.

 

Sawbones emergency healing is by far the worst out of the 3 healers.

 

Scoundrel is the worst healer in the game.

Edited March 4, 2012 by DunsparrowSolo

[vedranpauk]

You have never kept someone alive with 3 people attacking them with HoTs and EMP. To claim you have is a transparent lie.

 

With 2x SRMP on them you are getting ~1k every 3 seconds. With EMP you are getting 2-3k every GCD. This means you're doing about 1.5k HPS MAX and that is being extremely liberal. For this to be true, the 3 people attacking your friend are doing 700 damage per attack. And you said 3-4 people.

 

In other words, you're a big fat liar.

 

UWM crits for 6k+ every 2 seconds, which is 3k HPS and could potentially heal against burst damage, but it is extremely vulnerable to interrupt and you cant spam it because you'll blow all your energy in < 10 seconds.

 

Sawbones emergency healing is by far the worst out of the 3 healers.

 

Scoundrel is the worst healer in the game.

 

1k SRMP? unless it tick crits when you get PvP debuff its hardly over 600 non crit if even that much , i would love to see those 2-3k EMPs and UWM 6k crits

 

Scoundrel is great at survival semi average healer at best... UH/TA needs fixing asap having no instant heal for critical situation = big case of FAIL...