Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[Seriasx]

Care to explain what skill progression means?

 

Class knowledge - Meaning you know more about which buttons to press than the one that hasnt been pressed yet.

 

Basic understand or better of all the other classes which includes their abilities / specs

 

Game knowledge, ae ranges, distant ranges, basically understanding whats happening around you as opposed to just looking at your buttons as you face one opponent while ignoring everything else.

 

 

Basically anything that gives you advantages outside of attuning gear.

 

I should also add that these things do exist n/m how many people ignore them or say otherwise.

[GregMD]

Everyone should be completely equal in MMO pvp and gear shouldn't matter. The only rewards you should get should be cosmetic gear, titles, mounts, etc.

 

Of course no MMO would ever do this because it makes too much sense.

[CrunchyGremlin]

Content knowledge.

Map knowledge.

[Dronp]

I knew this was gonna be a cerebear mmo when I started playing but the gear whining on these forums is hilarious to say the least. Its a fkn MMO...in what universe do u expect to ding 50 and compete with geared battlemasters? Its called taking ur hits for a few weeks and getting geared to compete the same it is for every other mmo in existence. In fact gearing in this game is a joke...try the rank 14 grind from classic WoW if u want a real grind. Why dont we have bioware just mail everyone a full epic set when they ding 50 so they dont have to QQ about getting stomped in greens?

[TheRFC]

LOL @ this suggestion.

 

Grinding for gear is boring - tragically boring. I got my nerd on full tilt and hit level 50 in just under 8 days. I'm now around lvl55 valor and the char's about 2 weeks old, maybe a few days more. The grind is excrutiating. You know how many Huttball matches one level of Valor is? LOTS ... I want to perferate Baron Deathmark's jugular with a lightsabre ... (but I'm BH ).

 

Hitting level 50 was frustrating at first because you're almost naked without PvP gear. I'd go matches on end without even getting my 2.5K crit hit and my char's spec'd DPS. Previously, I'd been really comfortable in 1v1s and suddenly I was getting slapped around.

 

It wasn't particularly fun.

 

BUT...

 

I just put time into it, a lot. I don't even have full Champion gear and I've been getting games up there with 485K damage (PT not Merc ) and critting usually for between 3.5-4K w/ railshot. I hate the grind but the thought of continuous progression justifies it in a kind of sadomasochistic way ... it's still frustrating when I come across a guy (or girl) in full BM gear and my damage is significantly reduced but I don't think 'I wish he was nerfed...'

 

When people whine about equalising PvP gear it is like sitting an exam. Those who don't want to put in the hours/days revision don't get the same high marks that others do so they want all the questions made easier. I think people should be rewarded for putting time into this game, because otherwise the PvP element would be a ghost-town.

 

So you have the choice between originally getting beat down but then getting better and better in WZs until you're getting the most medals/ highest damage/healing/defense or whatever ... or just not playing WZs because everyone has quit after hitting 50 because 3 WZs is extremely little variety and gets super boring, super quickly and has no magnetism to keep the players there

 

Without trying to put too fine-a-point on it, in world PvP you wouldn't expect to be able to take on a level 30 if you're a level 25. Just because your level doesn't change when you are level 50 doesn't mean that there aren't 'mini' levels in a sense that differentiate you. If a guy has better armour than you then it means they've spent a lot longer than you. Equalise it and punish them, and in time yourselves.

 

Thanks, Bye

[Elkard]

Wrong and right.

Gear progression is the only PvP content worth anything in this game.

PvP Content progression is what keeps people in PvP

 

Patton didnt keep fighting because it was the only way he could get better tanks.

 

He was much more interested in beating the enemy generals plans and taking their territory then in better tanks.

In fact he and his co generals complained bitterly to HQ when the equipment they had was inadequate for the job.

 

Which is why he developed better strategies to beat them. Okay, hyperbole, but the point is even geared people can get owned. Another reason I plan to get myself expertised before I go into a WZ. Nice save.

[Dahoff]

Everyone should be completely equal in MMO pvp and gear shouldn't matter. The only rewards you should get should be cosmetic gear, titles, mounts, etc.

 

Of course no MMO would ever do this because it makes too much sense.

 

No MMO does this because there would be no reason to PVP then. People like to feel like they're progressing, PVP or PVE. Titles, cool looking stat-less gear isn't enough. People like to feel powerful and they are granted that by getting gear. MMO 101. I can see where the argument for Ranked should not be gear dependent, however non-Ranked should stay the way it is at least. People will quit PVPing in droves if they nerf or remove PVP stat-gear. I guarantee it.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Dahoff

[CrunchyGremlin]

Everyone should be completely equal in MMO pvp and gear shouldn't matter. The only rewards you should get should be cosmetic gear, titles, mounts, etc.

 

Of course no MMO would ever do this because it makes too much sense.

 

The game should progress too because this in an RPG not just World of Tanks.

WOT is a hell of lot of fun do not get me wrong there.

 

There needs to be a world to progress in.

I take your territory you lose something.

I get a promotion which gives me access to higher level content. In PvP this would mean harder battles maybe requiring more people and more coordination.

 

In DAOC this was i think...

milegates.

Keep.

keeps.

DF

Relic.

Relics.

Edited February 6, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin

[Brutem]

If a guy has better armour than you then it means they've spent a lot longer than you. Equalise it and punish them, and in time yourselves.

 

Thanks, Bye

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ccAYJajoA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhYXQupO5I

 

Alot of time, skill and effort put into these guys getting their gear, right?

[Malice_Nihilim]

Disparity in gear is the reason why it's an MMO. Take away the rewards from things and this post would be renamed "No reason to warzone, it doesn't advance my character at all".

 

There are hundreds of ways to reward players without giving them significantly superior gear.

[Bloodtau]

Disparity in gear is the reason pvp in mmo's is so terrible.

 

You play an RTS, racing game, fighting game, FPS etc and a persons skill actually matters.

 

In mmo's it's all about who ever has the most epics. If BioWare intends to try and change that then I say good on them and it can't come sooner.

 

That's a compete crock of crap. It should also be about skill not who can sit in their underwear in a bad light room for the longest amount of time to be "a proz player"

 

Good thing guild wars 2 is doing pvp RIGHT and i welcome the change. MMo's have just become a bunch of gear grinders who whine when something doesn't go their way. Those kind of players should just eff off in my opinion

[Bloodtau]

Everyone should be completely equal in MMO pvp and gear shouldn't matter. The only rewards you should get should be cosmetic gear, titles, mounts, etc.

 

Of course no MMO would ever do this because it makes too much sense.

 

guild wars 2.

[TheRFC]

Everyone should be completely equal in MMO pvp and gear shouldn't matter. The only rewards you should get should be cosmetic gear, titles, mounts, etc.

 

Of course no MMO would ever do this because it makes too much sense.

 

That makes no sense

 

I don't think that people appreciate how tedious life is on SWTOR currently for those who concentrate on their PvP. For casual PvPers, those who go mostly for PVE - you guys have SO much more to do. You have loads of flashpoints etc, you usually do it with a group who want to all co-operate ... you don't have the AFKer issue ...

 

PvPers have 3 WZs. No one is a particular big fan of VoidStar, Huttball comes around far too often and Alderan (my favourite) has a broken spawn system whereby the side-turrets are obnoxiously easier to defend than the middle, making the middle turret almost a liability to hold ... you also don't have to put up with a CC spam-fest. Nor do you have to spend 45minutes picking crap up from 'Central Assault' on Ilum, which for the Republic side must be a ball-ache because the servers all seem so Empire heavy.

 

The only incentive you have is to get better gear for the WZs. I want better scores and to be a bigger asset to my team? GEAR.

 

I'm only level 55 valor, about to hit level 56. For those who've ground out level 60, 65, 70 w/o the Ilum mess a few weeks ago I feel have deserved their gear and the scores they get in WZs because it is NO FUN.

 

Why would I want armour just for the aesthetics ... ? I'd prefer to spend the time pounding some guy and looking good whist doing it

[vrok-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ccAYJajoA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhYXQupO5I

 

Alot of time, skill and effort put into these guys getting their gear, right?

He said longer, implying it took time, and it did. Obviously the above should be a bannable offense, and valor should at least be split amongst the group. But anyway, because I'm so sick of whining about irrelevant ****, if that happens on your server you can just participate in it, get your valor, get your gear and shut your hole.

Edited February 6, 2012 by vrok-

[CrunchyGremlin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ccAYJajoA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhYXQupO5I

 

Alot of time, skill and effort put into these guys getting their gear, right?

 

Ack that first video is kill trading done on a larger scale eh?

That is sad.

NO penalty for death.

[TheRFC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ccAYJajoA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhYXQupO5I

 

Alot of time, skill and effort put into these guys getting their gear, right?

 

I agree that's cheap. REALLY cheap.

 

But IMO they're the same kind of losers who went MW2 and just spammed OMA Danger Close n00b tubes. BW should have been more switched on and seen that kind of thing happening.

 

Pulling up videos of those who effectively cheat (IMO) still doesn't take away from the legitimate hours and days that people have put into the game to earn their gear.

 

I like the concept of GW2 a lot, but they seem like they'll have so much more to do for PvPers. Ours is 3 boring WZs and a non-existent World PvP on a depressing looking location. Ilum is far too large for most servers for World PvP and it needs a lot more organising by BW.

 

If we're being honest, the PvP already isn't that amazing on here. I know it's only early days but in general they need a lot more variety, etc. To tie in my point, w/o gear grinding, there'd currently be no reason to continue playing at L50 as a PvPer because there's so little to do.

[Brutem]

He said longer, implying it took time, and it did. Obviously the above should be a bannable offense, and valor should at least be split amongst the group. But anyway, because I'm so sick of whining about irrelevant ****, if that happens on your server you can just participate in it, get your valor, get your gear and shut your hole.

 

Sorry I pvp for fun and competition, kill trading is neither its is done solely for.... getting gear quickly.

[swtornordrake]

I didn't bother trying pvp at all while leveling so when I hit 50 I decided to finally try it out. Well after being put in match after match against people decked out in full pvp gear and spending the whole time dying very quickly I finally said **** it and stopped trying pvp for good. There shouldn't be such a massive imbalance like there is right now.

 

Yes, thats what BW trying to fix. Game really need more easy accessible pvp gear at level 50 for newbies something like in wow 1st of all you get Rare (blue color) pvp grear and only after you smoothly progress on getting of your 1st epic armor set and 1st epic weapon. And this is work good since vanilla.

Edited February 6, 2012 by swtornordrake

[Malice_Nihilim]

I knew this was gonna be a cerebear mmo when I started playing but the gear whining on these forums is hilarious to say the least. Its a fkn MMO...in what universe do u expect to ding 50 and compete with geared battlemasters? Its called taking ur hits for a few weeks and getting geared to compete the same it is for every other mmo in existence. In fact gearing in this game is a joke...try the rank 14 grind from classic WoW if u want a real grind. Why dont we have bioware just mail everyone a full epic set when they ding 50 so they dont have to QQ about getting stomped in greens?

 

That's nice to say when the current Battlemasters got there without having to get farmed by a team of battlemasters.

 

They were generally the 'first of there kind' and all hit around the same time. The current system suppresses the desire of new 50's from PvPing, and even those that want to stick it out, its no longer 'weeks' its going to be a lot longer because they can't earn bags because victories are rare, they earn medals slowly so they can't buy the bags, soooo how are they going to gear up?

 

Its a nice thought to say 'run a pre-made' or whatever 'smart' answer you have, but this is a PvE model PvP system. This isn't DAoC where you go zerg it up for awhile til you hvae your suit built the way you want and get enough realm points to get you the basic 'must need' Realm Abilities and then you can go party with smaller match ups, etc. No this is a WZ, this is like having Arena's with Arena Gear from WoW without ranked brackets but you are stuck with random pugs too.

 

All in all the system is poor and really doesn't support any one play style other then PvE in sheeps clothing. To make it anything more then that and horribly slanted to boot, the first step is to remove the disparity in PvP and create other rewards for PvP. Everything from Realm Ability type things like from DAOC, like wouldn't it be cool if you could day, by another CC break? Or a CC effect reduction, etc based on what class you are. Mix that with a ranking system for bragging rights and some cool non-combat rewards like unique armor skins, armor colors/dyes etc that would make your achievements stand out.

 

If you only approve of 'better gear' as your method of reward, it isn't because you like to be rewarded for 'hard work (lawl)', it is that you are social moron who gets beat up daily in school or your drunk father, and so feels the need to redirect that anger into playing in an environment that allows you to run around with an 'I win' button. It really makes you not much better then the cowards who feel the need to speed hack to play the game etc.

[vrok-]

Sorry I pvp for fun and competition, kill trading is neither its is done solely for.... getting gear quickly.

That's fine, but don't whine about getting outgeared then, because that's not the issue.

Edited February 6, 2012 by vrok-

[CrunchyGremlin]

That makes no sense

 

I don't think that people appreciate how tedious life is on SWTOR currently for those who concentrate on their PvP. For casual PvPers, those who go mostly for PVE - you guys have SO much more to do. You have loads of flashpoints etc, you usually do it with a group who want to all co-operate ... you don't have the AFKer issue ...

 

 

I agree with this in as much that PvP has inadequate content.

 

Having gear destruction/drops would add some player content but there is a need for more reasons to fight.

 

novelty goods help. but more worlds to conquer is where it needs to go.

 

you know it would be pretty awesom to be able to achieve a title that gives you the ability to buff the server with a darkside buff. like the Emperor in SW did.

[Brutem]

Pulling up videos of those who effectively cheat (IMO) still doesn't take away from the legitimate hours and days that people have put into the game to earn their gear.

 

 

While i would like to belive there were alot of players whom attained their gear, from a legitimate way, the reality from what i have seen from personal experiences in the game differs greatly. Those who skipped content to grind to 50 like the OP, to grind lowbies for a month so they could get a gear advantage. At the end of the EA every wz i remember seeing had 4+ lv 50s pre dec 20th. By early Jan, the number was more of 6+. 1.1 drops, those whom have attained some/all of the BM gear are now farming fresh 50s. The way all of this was handled by Bioware from the start was just one big cluster of crap with expertise being the center of it.

 

The fresh 50s either:

 

a) stick with the grind of being fodder

 

or

 

b) kill trade so they can get gear and be competitive

Edited February 6, 2012 by Brutem

[vrok-]

They were generally the 'first of there kind' and all hit around the same time. The current system suppresses the desire of new 50's from PvPing, and even those that want to stick it out, its no longer 'weeks' its going to be a lot longer because they can't earn bags because victories are rare, they earn medals slowly so they can't buy the bags, soooo how are they going to gear up?

Stop exaggerating. My alt hit 50 last Monday and now has 10.2% expertise. Victories are only rare because of bad players so get your own premade. Most BMs barely even play tons of warzones any more because there's no point after your daily three wins.

Edited February 6, 2012 by vrok-

[Brutem]

That's fine, but don't whine about getting outgeared then, because that's not the issue.

 

So your solution for 50s without gear is to kill trade in Ilum? lol

 

Most BMs barely even play tons of warzones any more because there's no point after your daily three wins.

 

So kill trade to get gear and then no longer do pvp? You consider kill trading actual pvp?

Edited February 6, 2012 by Brutem

[TheRFC]

I agree with this in as much that PvP has inadequate content.

 

Having gear destruction/drops would add some player content but there is a need for more reasons to fight.

 

novelty goods help. but more worlds to conquer is where it needs to go.

 

you know it would be pretty awesom to be able to achieve a title that gives you the ability to buff the server with a darkside buff. like the Emperor in SW did.

 

I think what BW needs to learn is that WoW had a long time w/o a rival, or any effective one. BW doesn't have the luxury of drawing out this game over anything like as long a time-period. WoW had what? 10 years before most people started leaving in droves. BW will need to condense this A LOT. None of this 1 new WZ stuff every 6 months or something.

 

I really can understand people's frustration at hitting L50 and feeling like they've back at L10 and only just allowed into WZs in the first place, but overall more content is needed for PvP, lots, lots more.

 

The world PvP has failed IMO. I've no reason to go to Ilum now. I've got some Champion gear and the rest Centurion. I cba to do the boring Daily there when I may see 2 Reps during the bore-fest of collection 'ammunitions' for 45mins to an hour and a half (if I'm stupid enough not to wait until the early hours to do it). Ilum is depressing to look at, it's too large for many server sizes and there's no way to organise these things.

 

New planet, smaller area, meaningful and rewarding objectives and organisation. Where are the realm forums so big bust ups can be arranged?? It may seem skant excitement for long-term MMORPGers but that would be like losing my virginity again compared to the current Huttball grind. 'Now listen up, these are the rules of Huttball...'