Why even make a Jedi?

[DarthKeredias]

For a moment, I would like to speak briefly about The Jedi in general and why I feel that playing a Jedi in the game is for the most part, pointless.

 

Growing up as a kid and watching Star Wars, I always had fantasies of being a Jedi, I'm sure you all did at some point. However, I feel that the way Jedi are represented now is a complete mockery.

 

Sacrificing your emotions and all normal responsibilities and instinct is like taking a needle and lobotomizing yourself, taking away all aspects of a person that makes them, them. If emotion does indeed "blind us", then how on Earth were these people ever motivated to establish the order?

 

Obviously, you wanted something done, you wanted to protect the galaxy. It is that want and drive, that alone is part of an emotion. So does that make the Jedi hypocrites? Possibly.

 

Speaking in actuality, I find the Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular storylines and characters to be completely unrelatable and boring. I do not feel any emotional attachment to my character while playing them and I feel like I have as much emotion as a Protocol Droid.

 

The Sith have their alternative beliefs, but they also carry with them, themselves. They keep their emotions, they keep their love, hatred, whatever. They get to keep their emotions and they have the drive to see something done. So my question is, why even play as a Jedi?

 

Why be someone that is hard to relate to, when you can be a Sith Warrior and go lightside without the hazards or limitations of a guideline? Yes, normally light side options are looked down by Sith players, but I don't think of Jedi or Sith as stereotypes, I just think of them as different perspectives.

 

Take for example, Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, both movies directed by Clint Eastwood. I hated Flags of our Fathers because it told a very sappy and illiterate story, I didn't feel sorry for these people that had 15 minutes of fame. I also felt as though that the American side had less sympathy and were blinded by their orders and duty as "soldiers". Letters from Iwo Jima on the other hand, while the Japanese are considered as enemies in our eyes, through their eyes they are only serving their country and doing what they think is right. They have honor, respect and most of all culture.

 

So all in all, my question to you all is, why did you choose to create a Jedi Knight or Consular? What are you reasons? Is it because you feel that picking the good side is just and a normality, or is your childhood love of the original trilogy or for the ten of you out there the prequel trilogy, just?

Edited February 6, 2012 by DarthKeredias

[Kerplode]

As a Jedi character, I feel like I'm constantly spamming the choices that are "good"

 

But as a Sith, I can actually pick between 3 dialogue options and they all still feel like they belong to my character.

 

As a Sith character, you're more flexible with the story.

 

As a Jedi, you're either a cookie-cutter good-guy, or you're a dark Jedi-to be.

[JusticeVengeance]

Don't take the Jedi Code so literally. "There is no emotion" is so commonly misinterpreted by you Impies. The line refers to being in a state of peace and clarity, even in the worst of times.

 

A Jedi is supposed to be selfless, compassionate, and constantly seeking justice.

 

Every Jedi feels emotion, but can calm themselves when they feel anger and destructive.

 

When it comes down to it, the Jedi fight for everyone but themselves.

[Kippenhan]

^what Justice said, to add to that though, a Sith isn't always "free" many sith are slaves to their emotions. Just as someone with anger issues, or addict of lust, these extremes can apply to the Sith. All Jedi have emotions, any sentient being does. The code just emphasizes being able to keep a clear mind when in danger or otherwise.

 

"Fear is what Sith feed on the most, fear and passion are a lie. Fear gives temporary power and passion is easily manipulated. Real power is when one is no longer afraid, and stops grasping after power and allows the force to guide him. There is only the Force"

 

-Kel'eth ur-

something I found really interesting while playing on Dromund Kaas

[gaskull]

Well that's why I strove to become a Sith lord I've grown quiet attatched to my SI [just few points off from 50 now!] enjoy the story and the vo, Im rather biased against the republic aswell as the Jedi Order [the institutions & bureaucrecy´) in general so I've felt no need to try them out in-game.

Edited February 6, 2012 by gaskull

[benificus]

Man, why do people assume that because Jedi try to control their emotions, that they don't have any? They simply subscribe to a "religion" that places a high value on seeking clarity and serenity, so that they can make unclouded decisions and because too great a reliance on emotion leads to the Dark Side. They're still "human" (or alien, but you know what I mean). They're imperfect. They often fail to control themselves, which is where a lot of the stories in the Star Wars universe come from to begin with--the difficulty of actually following the Jedi code and the constant threat of becoming slave to emotion and falling to the Dark Side. Consider Luke fighting his anger in Return of the Jedi, or Anakin giving into his emotion in the prequels. This element has always been there, and the point has never been that the Jedi have no emotions, but that as emotional people, they have to control themselves as best they can to avoid the Dark Side, or else face the consequences.

 

This has always been the Jedi Code. Bioware didn't make it up. You're still free to decide who your character is and make whatever choice you feel they would make. Fall to the Dark Side if you want, or don't, or walk the line. Personally, I usually go with the "good guy" answers, but I'll often make dark side decisions that seem to serve the greater good, or simply the ones that are the result of emotional attachments. I've found more than enough of those options to satisfy me, and I feel like I'm playing exactly the sort of Jedi I want to play Jedi is a "mockery" (of what, exactly?) when the Jedi Code is nothing new.

Edited February 6, 2012 by benificus

[TalkingDinosaur]

"There is no emotion."

 

When the Jedi say this it really wraps around anger and lust.

[Spartanik]

"There is no emotion."

 

When the Jedi say this it really wraps around anger and lust.

 

yes, the most acurate version of the code would be "Emotion, yet peace" it translates way better what is all about. meaning is a way to overcome fear, and not let your emotions rule you, but you instead rule them. Doesnt mean one needs to be absent of emotion, on the contrary realy.

[Kiyosa]

I can imagine that roleplaying a Jedi is by far more challenging than a Sith, for the aforementioned reasons. Because truth be told, most people are closer to the Sith mentality and consequently find it easier to RP something they're already familiar with. I haven't yet looked much into the Jedi side of things, I'm becoming increasingly fond of my inquisitor.

 

(Sidenote: Any Jedi on Lord Calypho who would be up for a cross-faction RP plot?)

[FichutheDude]

If more people were able to control their anger, fear, rage , despair , hatred etc and focus more on the positive . . . Imagine the possibilities!

 

The Sith claim and believe without emotion pushed at the extreme the world would stagnates and collapse and thus SITH are the cataclysm of change and prosperity.

 

The Jedi are more like Tibetan Monk.

Edited February 6, 2012 by FichutheDude

[jtitford]

I find that the Jedi mindset fits me well. As a child I had a very over active temper and would be goaded into losing my cool by the other kids. It took a number of years to be able to step back from the situation emotionally in order to not give in to anger. As an adult I find it much easier to quietly find the humor in a situation than to react in anger. I suppose this experience has made me identify more with the Jedi character. Or for that matter Vulcans in Star Trek too. It's not that the emotions aren't there, it is far more beneficial to be cool headed in any situation than to be passionate. Well, most situations.

[SalsaDMA]

Don't take the Jedi Code so literally. "There is no emotion" is so commonly misinterpreted by you Impies. The line refers to being in a state of peace and clarity, even in the worst of times.

 

A Jedi is supposed to be selfless, compassionate, and constantly seeking justice.

 

Every Jedi feels emotion, but can calm themselves when they feel anger and destructive.

 

When it comes down to it, the Jedi fight for everyone but themselves.

 

There's a quest on the jedi starting planet that disagree with you.

 

 

 

2 jedi masters are concerned about their padawans, because they appear to be in love with each other. You then get asked to find them and figure out if this is true, which it is. When being honest (light side) about it all and telling the jedi masters about it, their esponse is that they need to seperate the lovers from each other. So no, the jedi takes it QUITE literal with the abolishments of emotion.

 

 

The "problem" with the jedi teaching is that they only think they can find justice if they don't let emotions, any emotion, "cloud" their judgement.

 

Also, don't forget that there is a whole village under constant attacks by hostile flesh eaters in the jedi councils backyard, and the jedi council does nothing to aid them. Reason? The village didn't get sanction by the republic to settle on the planet, so the jedi council aren't helping the 'illegal' settlement. There's "jedi-compassion" for you right there...

Edited February 6, 2012 by SalsaDMA

[Taythan]

In Star Wars lore one need look no further than Qui Gon Jinn to see a Jedi who doesn't always choose the "light" options.

[HessuVee]

There's a quest on the jedi starting planet that disagree with you.

 

 

 

2 jedi masters are concerned about their padawans, because they appear to be in love with each other. You then get asked to find them and figure out if this is true, which it is. When being honest (light side) about it all and telling the jedi masters about it, their esponse is that they need to seperate the lovers from each other. So no, the jedi takes it QUITE literal with the abolishments of emotion.

 

 

The "problem" with the jedi teaching is that they only think they can find justice if they don't let emotions, any emotion, "cloud" their judgement.

 

Also, don't forget that there is a whole village under constant attacks by hostile flesh eaters in the jedi councils backyard, and the jedi council does nothing to aid them. Reason? The village didn't get sanction by the republic to settle on the planet, so the jedi council aren't helping the 'illegal' settlement. There's "jedi-compassion" for you right there...

 

The problem with your spoiler example is that in fact it's not about the emotion involved as such but what the emotions will lead to if left unchecked. The Jedi believe emotional attachments lead inevitably to clouded decisions, you would always put your love ahead of everything else for example. Jedi feel emotions just like everyone else, but they won't let them become something that guides their decisions. That's why the people in your spoiler want you to do what they suggest.

A good example of the above would be the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin at Mustafar. Obi-Wan clearly states "I love you Anakin, you're like a brother to me!", yet his mind is not clouded from the big picture and he has to cut Anakin down for the greater good, even though the act pains him greatly. There's strong emotion there, yet peace.

Anakin's love for Padme clouded his judgment when Mace Windu was about to kill Sidious. He didn't want him alive to be fairly judged like he claimed but instead his mind was set on Sidious teaching him the way to control death and to keep Padme from dying. If he had kept his emotions in check, he never would've fallen in love in the first place and thus Sidious couldn't have played that card on him.

 

To answer the OP, I chose a Jedi simply because I very much love them. Then again, I also love the Sith and have a Warrior character as well...

[Karaiblis]

Yes, I get all you with the: it's really "Emotion, yet peace" retcons out there, and lore wise it fixes the problem. The issue is that it isn't written that way in this game, it really is "There is no emotion, only peace" and this is drilled home with every boring interaction with your Jedi related NPC's.

 

So the question isn't 'why would you role-play a Jedi', just about everyone has wanted to do that, but 'why would you play a Jedi as they are presented in this game'. They are so much more boring than the Sith counterparts; and the interest I keep seeing expressed is people who have role-played that peronality into their characters, rather than it being included in the game story line. Role-play is fun, but it's more fun to get the play through the game storyline with it all acted out in front of you in cinematics, and it just lacks compaired to the Sith gameplay in that sense.

[Sjwhite]

I played my Jedi Shadow up to 50 even though I main IMPs for a number of reasons, one was to PvP with less huttball and be on the underdog side, and the other was the feeling you get when your actually saveing people and planets. This IMO is more heroich then the bounty hunters "Get a lead on a guy with a bounty and follow it" or the SI selfish quest for more power. IMO it is actually better overall story when you are saveing masses.

[Kelticfury]

The way Jedi are portrayed in this game, yes I said in this game, not the books, not the movies... Not very human, not believable. I totally agree with the OP about this. But they sure are quick on the betrayals. Before you even get off the starter planet you are asked to spy on fellow students for being in love, and if you decide that the truly moral thing to do is to not go and tattle on them, you are darkside. Its ridiculous the things this game call light or dark on the republic side.

 

Now feel free to totally disregard the part where I specifically say THIS GAME not the books or the movies and write a long diatribe about how wrong I am.

[Donnach]

I've noticed that kind of mismatch between lightside/darkside and what appears to be moral aswell. This has led me to believe that lighside/darkside are not base on a scale of morality, but instead a scale between stoicism and hedonism.

[LyriaFrost]

There's a quest on the jedi starting planet that disagree with you.

 

 

 

2 jedi masters are concerned about their padawans, because they appear to be in love with each other. You then get asked to find them and figure out if this is true, which it is. When being honest (light side) about it all and telling the jedi masters about it, their esponse is that they need to seperate the lovers from each other. So no, the jedi takes it QUITE literal with the abolishments of emotion.

 

 

The "problem" with the jedi teaching is that they only think they can find justice if they don't let emotions, any emotion, "cloud" their judgement.

 

Well, that's just it. If you let yourself get overly emotional (and the key is 'overly') about an issue, you'll stop seeing it logically, and only start seeing it through the lens of your emotion, either positive or negative. Emotions are extremely powerful things, and can very easily subjugate rational thought.

 

As far as your spoiler goes, it may be because they see what's happening, rather than just "they might be in love".

 

After all, the girl is EXTREMELY close to falling to the dark side; her responses to you, her animosity, her manipulative behavior, her condescension...etc. She's not cut out to be a jedi. Her boyfriend is clearly wrapped around her finger, and she knows it. And relishes it. She loves him, but I think if he ever stood up to her -- or even questioned her -- she'd lash out at him angrily. Possibly violently. You see a brief flare of it towards him if you opt to take the crystal for your silence and he says something she dislikes, just a little bit. At least that's what I get from her.

 

 

Also, don't forget that there is a whole village under constant attacks by hostile flesh eaters in the jedi councils backyard, and the jedi council does nothing to aid them. Reason? The village didn't get sanction by the republic to settle on the planet, so the jedi council aren't helping the 'illegal' settlement. There's "jedi-compassion" for you right there...

 

They're not OPENLY helping them. They don't discourage padawans from going there, though, and clearly quite a few of them do, as one of the quests there states -- padawans come to participate in their "walk up the hill lighting fires" quest quite often. Not to mention that by being proactive and doing something, the jedi council realize "Hey, yeah, we were kind of being overly-lawful and not enough good".

 

So who knows.

[Kelticfury]

TEXT

 

Apologist.

 

The jedi in this game are arrogant, deceitful and hypocritical. Or maybe they are just dark side masqueraders

[LyriaFrost]

I've noticed that kind of mismatch between lightside/darkside and what appears to be moral aswell. This has led me to believe that lighside/darkside are not base on a scale of morality, but instead a scale between stoicism and hedonism.

 

The light/dark choices seem to be, at least to me, to be more aligned between "compassion" (light) and "pragmatism" (dark) for some of them. Like the trooper quest, choosing to give the medicine to the refugees (light) or to the injured troopers (dark).

 

Judging by what I've seen, I could picture a scenario like this:

 

You're running a quest that has you delivering supplies/food/etc to an outpost that desperately needs them, and is under a heavy time constraint; without them, the outpost will fall. Along the way, you run into a family of people who were routed from their home by raiders, and are now trapped by some encroaching monsters. Do you:

* Stop and help them, meaning the outpost won't get their needed supplies on time (light)

* Promise to send help after you deliver the supplies (neutral)

* Tell them you're sorry and try to finish the mission on time, to help the outpost/more people (dark)

 

Compassion would lead me to want to help them. But pragmatism would lead me towards the more neutral/dark choice; helping the outpost is helping dozens of people, while helping the refugees is only helping three.

 

Or my favorite dark/light choice so far, from the end of act-1 for the Imperial Agent (big spoiler, don't read if you wanna keep it a surprise!):

 

Darth Jadus has given you the choice of whether or not to turn on/deactivate the orbital bombardment weapons. If you take the time to deactivate them (light side), he'll escape, and has threatened to kill hundreds of thousands of people. If you activate the weapons (dark side) it will kill tens of thousands, but you'll have the chance to stop him here and now.

 

I was soooo torn on this one. I was talking to my bf at the time online and kind of writing a little scene about it. My hardened, pragmatic, ruthless agent actually had tears in her eyes when she activated the weapons, whispered "I'm sorry" under her breath, and ran to try and stop Jadus. Hearing the transmissions of places under attack over the speakers while she was running about almost made me cry in RL a bit.

 

Edited February 6, 2012 by LyriaFrost

[lordmuffin]

I currently have a Jedi Knight and a Sith Inquisitor. Don't get me wrong the Sith is fun to play as. Saying and doing whatever you feel like is cool, but playing as the Jedi is more challenging.

 

Doing what right means some times giving up rewards or sparing those who have wronged or angered you. It seems to add another quality to the story, Do I just take this or threaten this person to just take a shortcut or do I do the honorable thing even though that is not the path of least resistance.

 

The only complaint I have is the errand running as a Jedi. "No I don't want to get your tools back because you are to weak to go after them yourself, I am a BEEPING Jedi after all not your errand boy"

[SalsaDMA]

Well, that's just it. If you let yourself get overly emotional (and the key is 'overly') about an issue, you'll stop seeing it logically, and only start seeing it through the lens of your emotion, either positive or negative. Emotions are extremely powerful things, and can very easily subjugate rational thought.

 

As far as your spoiler goes, it may be because they see what's happening, rather than just "they might be in love".

 

After all, the girl is EXTREMELY close to falling to the dark side; her responses to you, her animosity, her manipulative behavior, her condescension...etc. She's not cut out to be a jedi. Her boyfriend is clearly wrapped around her finger, and she knows it. And relishes it. She loves him, but I think if he ever stood up to her -- or even questioned her -- she'd lash out at him angrily. Possibly violently. You see a brief flare of it towards him if you opt to take the crystal for your silence and he says something she dislikes, just a little bit. At least that's what I get from her.

 

 

 

 

They're not OPENLY helping them. They don't discourage padawans from going there, though, and clearly quite a few of them do, as one of the quests there states -- padawans come to participate in their "walk up the hill lighting fires" quest quite often. Not to mention that by being proactive and doing something, the jedi council realize "Hey, yeah, we were kind of being overly-lawful and not enough good".

 

So who knows.

 

I personally felt Bioware dropped the ball with the lovers quest. Instead of putting a proper dilemma they resorted to letting the quest get shoehorned by boring narative. By your claim, and the poor storytelling of the lovers quest, love HAS to lead to the darkside. This is clearly wrong as plenty of people in the movies are capable of loving without turning to the darkside.

 

What they SHOULD have done, is present you with a clearcut example of 2 people being innocently in love without any forced (and yes, I felt it was poorly forced by the storytelling) sidings towards the dark. The lightside/darkside choice you end up with is then whether you are truthfull or deceitfull and not related to the people you are spying on.

 

Abolishing love and trying to avoid emotional attachments at all is a clearer route towards evil than anything else. Heck, Rajivari On the very same planet shows all too clear what purely logical thinking leads you into.

 

As for Twilek village near the council, The consular teacher clearly says that the council has decided against helping the village and while she doesn't personally agree with it, she agrees to follow that ruling. Dunno what the jedi knight gets told, but it's pretty clear from the consular storyline that it's a decided decision by the council not to help the twileks against the attacks by flesheaters.

[HessuVee]

Apologist.

 

The jedi in this game are arrogant, deceitful and hypocritical. Or maybe they are just dark side masqueraders

 

If it wasn't so off-topic, I would love to see you enlighten us on why you think so...

I, for one, couldn't disagree more.

[Kelticfury]

The only complaint I have is the errand running as a Jedi. "No I don't want to get your tools back because you are to weak to go after them yourself, I am a BEEPING Jedi after all not your errand boy"

 

My problem with the jedi side is the kind of choices that are considered light/dark.

 

Many light choices are clearly dark, and many darkside just seem to be thrown in there as filler, an alternate choice with no thought given to the actual darkness or lightness of the action.