Heavy armor and DPS

[Dissentus]

That's the problem with the Sith Warrior Class atm. Juggs can DPS and do comparable to their Marauder brothers, but Marauders could never come close to the Tanking abilities of a Jugg (No Heavy Armor or Skill Tree).

 

It begs the question, why even choose the Marauder spec at level 10, if Juggs can DPS and Tank. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! BW is supposed to be fixing the marauder class soon, hopefully they balance it out.

 

A marauder has more defensive abilities than a dps specced Jugg. In fact, they are better and can escape a lot easier. Sure, a Jugg can spec for tanking, but then he isn't doing anywhere close to the same damage.

[aeterno]

He didnt use it, it was all burst. But kthxdrivethru.

 

If he bursted for 6.5k he sure did use it cos thats the only way he's able to buff the damage up that high.

 

 

 

Fret not girls, when biochem gets the stick so do the JK/SW aoe bombs. They like depend on stacking every buff and consumable out there to do a burst and then proceede to hit you with a broom for the next minute.

Edited February 8, 2012 by aeterno

[Tuscar]

LOL you are complaining about aoe force sweep bombing tank class.

 

1 - Sentinel/Marauder has the same spec, and hits harder, without sacrificing their defense.

2 - It requires 2 skills and 3-5 seconds to set-up the damage, plus trinket, stim, and adrenal.

3 - If you break force stasis, no force sweep bomb or cleanse force exhaustion, no force sweep bomb.

4 - If you push away the JK when he uses sweep, no force sweep bomb, because it goes through at the landing point and hits no one.

 

There are so many things to go wrong with a force sweep bomb, if you are remotely paying attention to the JK it won't happen more often than not.

[VertisReaper]

please nerf this OP spec.

[DarkhawkXY]

Here is the rotation needed to get that 4500 crit as a Focus Guardian -->

 

Saber throw --> Force Leap (build focus or we're useless unless combat focus is up)

Force Exhaustion (wait for 4 stacks of singularity @ 1 stack a sec)

Zealous Leap (auto crit force sweep)

Force sweep (AoE with dmg boost from vig skill tree)

 

We have 4 low (1000ish damage) attacks that are required before we hit that 4500 crit attack, most of these are on 9sec + timers so we can only do them 1-2 times in a normal 1v1. If we mess up anything, or you can keep us out of melee range then we can't do anything.

 

In warzones, its generally a bad idea to stay grouped up.. our AoE range is very small so it is your fault if you are huddled up and I pop 5 enemies for 4500 because it took me a good 6 sec build-up before I could do that attack. Also, unlike other classes that start with full energy and can hit their hardest attacks off the start (and have ranged dps) the guardian/sentinel needs to build up and maintain focus to be viable. If you really think its that good perhaps you should roll a focus specced guardian.

Edited February 8, 2012 by DarkhawkXY

[Amiracle]

Doesn't the other side have a mirror class.

 

And since both can bring this to the table doesn't that mean its balanced.

 

The balance you are looking for is between classes. And that will only be achieved if there is one class....dps.

[DarkhawkXY]

Yes, the factions are exact mirrors (different animations) so really, he should just be yelling at his sith friends to be AoE bombing us.

[Aramand]

its not a exaggeration at all. Okay, maybe it is 7 hits. But I do get burned quite easily. Remember, tanks do not have mitigation for Tech powers or Elemental damage. Those abilities will always hit for the max damage on us.

 

Max damage until your shield activates...

[Venilator]

A marauder has more defensive abilities than a dps specced Jugg. In fact, they are better and can escape a lot easier. Sure, a Jugg can spec for tanking, but then he isn't doing anywhere close to the same damage.

 

The thing that makes no sense is all of the defensive abilities of Marauders are so PvP focus. It makes no sense that this crap has gotten through... Every MMO has proven that high DPS classes should not possess good defensive skills since their DPS is their DEFENSE.

 

 

It seems this Dev team does not understand this one bit. Immortal Spec is doesn't really increase passive survivability. All it does is give CCs at the cost of massive amount of damage if you wear the PvP tanking gear that currently does nothing because Defense and Shield's do not work in PvP...

 

 

Literally our PvP gear has stats that have no use in PvP.... Amazing...

[Venilator]

Max damage until your shield activates...

 

Shield's don't activate.... I have a 24% Defense chance, a 35% shield chance, and a 32% shield absorption rate... None of those ever pop unless someone is hitting me with their weakest attack.. like ASSAULT.....

 

 

Oh man my defense work against an attack that does 200 damage!!!!

[SWImara]

On the plus side the nerf cries are getting close to hitting every AC now

[Malice_Nihilim]

This is getting insane.

 

If a Jedi Guardian hits for 4600...they should no longer be able to use heavy armor and get the benefits from that.

 

As a Sith Sorcerer I get owned in a heart beat, but I can spam my attacks on a Guardian/juggernaught all day long and barely scratch them. They can easily kill me 3 times over before I could kill them once.

 

High Health, heavy armor and high DPS for guardians/juggernaughts makes them a formidable foe on the battlefield. This warrants some closer observation.

 

If a Sith Sorcerer wants to post a spec that can take down these bastards please feel free to post it so I can try it out.

 

As it stands using static barrier is doesn't absorb enough damage because we still die fast once it pops.

 

Armor should really not be effective against force powers.

 

Ok, to start actually listing off the facts here that ruin logical progression of the above statement...

 

First off. Armor has no impact on Sorc's. Elemental and Internal Damage, no crits, are effected by Heavy Armor. Thus these classes could have Bagillion mega googlepex +1 armor rating, and it would still have no bearing on your class vs there class. They could run at you buck naked and you would accomplish the same thing, other then the Stats and Expertise that armor carries.

 

On the other hand, Absorb Bubble effects about everything, including the 4k hit by a Juggy.

 

Now what this whole thread sounds like is 'I'm a fresh 50 Sorc and was hit by a fully battlemaster'd out Juggy with stims, Adrenals and trinkets all applied.'

 

They really get barely anymore HP then you get. They can attempt to gear toward more HP at the cost of being able to do damage, but thats about it. 20k HP vs 15-17k on a Sorc of equal gear?

 

So while I loathe to say it, it seems like this thread is a lot of whine and blowing things out of proportion because you lost a fight, so the only real safe answer is 'L2P'.

[Tattum]

i don't understand how squishy operatives, who had to stealth, sneak, get behind target, drop a buff, trinket, pot, then backstab a target for 5k crit got nerfed to a point where they can barely break 2k.

 

but bw leave heavy armor wearers to have aoe's that crit for 4-5k

 

i guess that's why they call them failware

 

 

 

yep we hit for 5-6 k ... but it happens once per few minutes.. and we have to hit the right moment, if we don`t , we have to wait again.. ...

 

its about skill man... ofc you see guardians/juggs posting videos with 9+k hits (lvl 50 full BM against lvl 11 operative with no gear..) , but you dont see the preparation before it...

[DarthxRage]

There are TONS of ways to circumvent heavy armor. Bio gave these abilities out like candy.

[Coltainedark]

If he bursted for 6.5k he sure did use it cos thats the only way he's able to buff the damage up that high.

 

Sorry dude but you're out to lunch, just happened in WZ right now.

 

Want to hear about UberJuggs? Go see "Flegg" on Daragon Trail.

[zqsd]

It seems there is no penalty damage wise for wearing heavy armor in this game so you will see commando / vanguard or juggs do as much damage as a gunslinger or an assassin who wear medium and even light armor.

 

This, of course, needs to be adressed.

[AKfourtyseven]

This is getting insane.

 

If a Jedi Guardian hits for 4600...

 

Never been hit that hard by a Jugg/Guard, even when i wasnt 50 and fighting level 50s on my Sorc. Either they were full BM with stims and your gear isnt very good or you are resulting to hyperbole.

 

Either way, those classes are perfectly killable as a Sorc and they need all that armour rating or they would be food.

 

Edit: And i know smash can crit that hard, but you need to be rather silly to get hit by it considering the setup needed and the predictability of it

Edited February 9, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[LarkBenson]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, I didn't read the entire thread, but it's pretty hilarious that an AC whose entire range of damage bypasses armour completely is complaining about a tanking class having heavy armour while being able to hit hard. Just ridiculous.

[DrekorSilverfang]

Powertechs can also do ridiculous damage, while having vastly superior defensive cooldowns compared to my scoundrel. Scoundrels are also suppose to be melee class, yet we have **** for defensive cooldowns while warriors and tanks get heavy armor, 99% damage reduction, 25% damage reduction, warriors can also vanish. While my ""defensive"" cooldowns break on damage and absorb so little damage I can't even tell how much it absorbs without you thinking I'm making a joke.

 

Retarded game.

 

Vanishing warriors are marauders, they wear medium armor just lik your scoundrel. Juggernauts do not vanish. In fact they charge up a super smash then stand there holding their dick until they can do it again.

[Invictusthetaru]

wow, so much ignorance in this thread. A few good posts though.

 

1. Guardians are MELEE, so we are at an immediate disadvantage.

 

2. super sweep takes 4 seconds to set up

 

3. if you get jumped on you can easily aoe knockback root if specced, if not aoe knock back force sprint away...we are left alone and crying.

 

Jesus christ, with all the sorcs and mercs running around I'm surprised I can do any damage at all.

 

Not to mention you can slow us knock us back and then we are stuck trying to get to you as you freely rain down the damage.

[Dee-Jay]

So....a 4500 crit that Guardians can pull off every ~15 seconds is overpowered and the 3300 crit tracer missiles that are spammed by Bounty Hunters are ok?

 

I understand that Sweep Bombing is stupid, but as long as people hit with more than 3000 with their standard base-line attacks, there's really no need for finger pointing.

[AKfourtyseven]

wow, so much ignorance in this thread. A few good posts though.

 

1. Guardians are MELEE, so we are at an immediate disadvantage.

 

2. super sweep takes 4 seconds to set up

 

3. if you get jumped on you can easily aoe knockback root if specced, if not aoe knock back force sprint away...we are left alone and crying.

 

Jesus christ, with all the sorcs and mercs running around I'm surprised I can do any damage at all.

 

Not to mention you can slow us knock us back and then we are stuck trying to get to you as you freely rain down the damage.

 

Exactly, as a Sorc player its a joke complaining about JK/Sw damage. If any class does too much damage for the protection they have its BH.

 

I would also love to see the OP actually play a JK/SW in PvP and see how fun it is having to negotiate the vast number of knock-backs and ranged spams.

 

Sorc has it easy.

[TheRFC]

i don't understand how squishy operatives, who had to stealth, sneak, get behind target, drop a buff, trinket, pot, then backstab a target for 5k crit got nerfed to a point where they can barely break 2k.

 

but bw leave heavy armor wearers to have aoe's that crit for 4-5k

 

i guess that's why they call them failware

 

U mad? I'm a powertech so have Heavy Armour and with their bursts Ops can drop me to around 30-40% health straight from stealth. What more advantage do you want? I'm fine with Ops having their ludicrous crits back ... just give up stealth first

 

And the smugglers ... got hit for 9K total damage earlier from 2 hits straight from stealth!

 

I'm not whining about wanting them nerfed so stop crying about wanting them buffed. If you know how to use stealth char's then they're some of the most devastating in the game.

 

Don't like the class? Reroll.

[Gregory-IRL-Bria]

Full tank guardians/jugs can not do 4600 Force bombs.

 

You are either a Guardian/Jug with damage or a Guardian/Jug with Extreme defenses. Not both.

 

But honestly this thread to me just sounds like a sorc crying because he doesnt have an advantage in close combat against a tank (duh of course you dont).

[TheRFC]

Exactly, as a Sorc player its a joke complaining about JK/Sw damage. If any class does too much damage for the protection they have its BH.

 

I would also love to see the OP actually play a JK/SW in PvP and see how fun it is having to negotiate the vast number of knock-backs and ranged spams.

 

Sorc has it easy.

 

I agree that Sorcs have it EZ Mode, too many just won't stay ranged where they're at their strongest.

 

But I don't see how BH's have too much armour either. Mercs drop stupid fast at close-range, PTs drop fast at distance. As a PT if I can't close the distance I need to break the LOS or I'm done. Mercs need to keep the distance or they're finished.