Deception PvP is NOT Broken

[OrsoTheExiled]

Looking at the forums I keeps seeing people crying about our class, saying darkness is the only viable tree. That simply isn't true.

 

As proof that I'm not full of it http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj511/jewbacca58/Kickingass.png

That isn't me stroking my e-peen, I'm certainly not the best sin out there but, I'm not awful. I didn't die once, took the second most dmg on our team, and my top hit was something like 4100 off a crit 4 stack discharge I think (with relic popped). All my protection points came from taunting, which I didn't do nearly enough that match.

 

First, our "nerf" isn't a nerf at all. The only time deception should be in darkness is if they are ball carrying in Huttball (like I am in the screencap) or if a healer really needs protection. Surging charge give us a strong nuke (discharge), a solid dps boost off procs, and FORCE REGEN. As such, deception should be in surging charge normally, so the patch will change nothing there.

 

It's about knowing how to juggle your CD's and using force cloak if you're screwed. Yes you'll die if the focus fire you, but as a dps class that's fair. 1 on 1, we can win a lot of fights. We have a slow w/ 100% up time, an incap, a stun, tech/force invul, 50% white dmg resist chance buff, vanish, mezz, stealth knock down, and solid dmg.

 

Also don't get tunnel vision, that commando healer with his bubble up... you aren't gonna drop him, he's taking 25% less dmg, immune to interrupts and has heavy armor. That Sniper that popped entrench, he made himself immune to CC probably so he could burn his dmg cd's with being interrupted, he'll whoop your ***, LoS him. Know what your enemies are doing and react appropriately and you'll do very well.

 

With the op nerf, they're in line with us. I'd be willing to guess that we are pretty much perfect from BW's perspective. I'm sure anything that may be "OP" like grav round spam will be brought in line with our dmg.

 

Also, in madness spec you should crack 300k dmg easily in voidstar. I'm terrible at madness (too much crap to manage) and still manage to pass 300k everytime, no sweat. you just sacrifice durability for damage... like any other game.

 

Last note, Darkness only scores decent dmg because of it's aoe. It doesn't deal major dmg to any individual, but it hits 5 people. So really it pads your stats but doesn't help kill anyone. The only thing that hits hard is the 3x HD force lightning. Madness on the other hand has a 3 target aoe that crits for 3k (dmg that does help kill people) plus strong dots and hard melee crits. While Deceptions dmg is all single target dmg, which is the best for killing someone (though it's worthless in Ilum w/ all the ranged people and aoes, melee is absolutely irrelevant out there).

 

Sorry this was long, just tired of people crying.

[Jayvenger]

First, our "nerf" isn't a nerf at all. The only time deception should be in darkness is if they are ball carrying in Huttball (like I am in the screencap) or if a healer really needs protection. Surging charge give us a strong nuke (discharge), a solid dps boost off procs, and FORCE REGEN. As such, deception should be in surging charge normally, so the patch will change nothing there.

 

I Bolded for emphasis. Force Regen you say? Really? Are you actually trying to be serious? You consider TEN force every TEN SECONDS to be Force Regen? That equates to what...1 Force per second? Darkness gets a 30% buff which I think ends up being 3 per second.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Saber Conduit is a joke. The limit needs to be reduced down to about every 3 seconds.

[OrsoTheExiled]

If you account for Duplicity, insulation and surging charge. Deception is actually the most efficient spec.

 

Darkness spec makes your regen 10.4 forces per second (you can see in on you character sheet)

 

Surging charge makes it roughly 9 per tick. Plus, half off mauls and shocks... so yes it's very much noteworthy.

 

Also stealth and blackout give you 6 seconds of plus 50% regen (or 12 force per second if you's rather). You open from stealth for that reason, and a 45 sec cd can be used a ton. Deception is the easiest spec as far as force is concerned.

Edited February 6, 2012 by OrsoTheExiled

[Silcan]

If you account for Duplicity, insulation and surging charge. Deception is actually the most efficient spec.

 

Darkness spec makes your regen 10.4 forces per second (you can see in on you character sheet)

 

Surging charge makes it roughly 9 per tick. Plus, half off mauls and shocks... so yes it's very much noteworthy.

 

This!

 

Also i have done over 400k with dec but its rare:)

 

I have played dec till VR 55 and then i went tank hybrid. The frustration in dec is so high hehe Sure u can do well sometimes but really, its a bit subpar with other callings thats for sure. I have been playing dec 55 valor ranks straight si i know what i am talking about. The damage output can be nice when u get lucky with ur crits sure. But the class needs tweaking. Also madness spec need some love in pvp.

[Coldhugs]

You are running in Dark Charge genius; that's going away for you too. Edited February 6, 2012 by Coldhugs

[OrsoTheExiled]

As I said I'm in dark charge for ball carrying. My job was to score the ball or get close and pass at that moment and not do dmg b/c our tanks weren't there. I was in sutging charge almost the entire match except ball carrying situation or if protecting a healer was more valuable than my dmg.

 

I know it's a long post, but I did explain that in it, so your 1.1.2 "nerf" recognition is moot. You'll still be able to go dark charge to ball carry w/ extra armor.

 

Even without me saying it the giant purple beacon of light coming from my character mean I got the ball. Extra durability>dmg when running the ball in huttball since you become the focus target, or at least a focus target.

Edited February 6, 2012 by OrsoTheExiled

[Darckaliber]

I believe the nerf is intended to kill very specific specs such as:

 

21/12/8: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrozrsZhGbMZf0c.1

 

This spec revolves around spamming shock with the combination of Electrify, Energize, Induction and Chain Shock. You have massive force regen with the combination of Blood of Sith, Dark Embrace, and Lightning Reflexes.

 

 

There is also the similar build:

 

18/14/8 (1 point left over): http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrozMcZhGbMkZf0c.1

 

Basically your giving up 15% shock damage for Dark Swell and Deceptive Power. With DP's extra 10 force and the other force regen talents, you can Maul 4 times in a row if properly stealthed first (or by popping Dark Swell).

 

 

These builds offer huge force regen that allow you to spam thrash and shock endlessly while being specced into nearly every major utility talent to increase survival. I believe this is what they are trying to nerf.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Darckaliber

[Exiled-Phoenix]

i didnt rly read anything in this thread except the first phrase of the opening post...

 

Deception is better then darkness, it has better force regen, cheaper attacks and faster damage then darkness.

[Darckaliber]

i didnt rly read anything in this thread except the first phrase of the opening post...

 

Deception is better then darkness, it has better force regen, cheaper attacks and faster damage then darkness.

 

Everyone already knows that Deception is better DPS than Dark. Its the lack of being survivable enough to put out that damage with pure deception that people have issue with.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Everyone already knows that Deception is better DPS than Dark. Its the lack of being survivable enough to put out that damage with pure deception that people have issue with.

 

meh, unless you use dark charge AND dark ward all the time, survivability is just a matter of luck.

There is little to no HP difference between a lvl 10 darkness and a lvl 40 deception due to the pvp boost in the 10-49 bracket.

 

even as a 'tank' you wont win a battle in a 2v1, just force cloak and retry.

[WmongerCZ]

Looking at the forums I keeps seeing people crying about our class, saying darkness is the only viable tree. That simply isn't true.

 

As proof that I'm not full of it http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj511/jewbacca58/Kickingass.png

 

You really mean THIS PROOF seriously?!???!! This is soooo lame!

Whow Niri was a real player! From what I can see, the oposite team had only three decent or good players. What do you expect? If you have good team you can have big score. NICE! So every deception Sin player have to wait to "win " a good team ... hey we have a new lotery in town :-)))))

 

In addition, 20 killing blows? Seriously? :-) So now I know how to play deception Sin. I have to wait in stealth and steal easy kills from my teammates. NICE! Now I know why it is "Deception Sin" :-))))

 

Your arguments are totally useless. Try to stand against marauder or gunslinger 1v1 (if they have no good gear). Maybe you survive. In WZ you are useless. Every time you are not protected by the dark charge, you are as squishy as baby cocroach on the floor. Do you really think that somebody let you beat his/her teammate without response? Even when they can see how quickly your life is decreasing after each hit? Yes, maybe you can kill somebody, but you are the next after him if he is not alone :-)))

 

I can tell you this: You are using surging chare and you are in stealth, full force. You open fight, you hit somebody fro 5-6k in sequence, than you have no force, you are stunned and dead. This happens if you meet good oponents and you are squishy.

Sorry but running around and searching for easy kills is not good DPS character. It is ridiculous character (unfortunatelly, I am deception Sin too. I am trying to find the balance and proper way how to play this class too. I have spent more than one whole month in WZs only and, now, I can start again with the squishiest glass cannon I have ever seen. Even the stealth is useless when you open a fight. Every dumb player can easilly find the way how to put you out of the force cloak (fire, etc.). When you burn or when something dealing you damage over time, you have very small chance to stay in the stealth mode. Totally useless too. Actually very ridiculous class when you try to run around with surging charge as your main attribute. Really.).

Edited February 6, 2012 by WmongerCZ

[Mohawksinspace]

No one questions deception's ability to put out damage. At least no one credible.

 

It's that you have to hang around long enough to set up that damage. Deception is hellah fragile. In that SS, the other team blew, and you had a lot of healing on done on your team. Any decent player in those conditions is going to wreck.

[byteresistor]

As proof that I'm not full of it http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj511/jewbacca58/Kickingass.png

That isn't me stroking my e-peen, I'm certainly not the best sin out there but, I'm not awful. I didn't die once, took the second most dmg on our team

Let me guess: you were in a premade and you had pocket healers?

 

meh, unless you use dark charge AND dark ward all the time, survivability is just a matter of luck.

Shielding attacks is dependant on luck (not that many people use a shield offhand in PvP to begin with), having more armor isn't luck, it's stable and passive.

Edited February 6, 2012 by byteresistor

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Let me guess: you were in a premade and you had pocket healers?

 

 

Shielding attacks is dependant on luck (not that many people use a shield offhand in PvP to begin with), having more armor isn't luck, it's stable and passive.

 

Its still going to depend on what skills you have on cooldown, what your enemies have on cooldown, what your enemies actually have on their toolbar and how smart they are in using their proc's.

[byteresistor]

Its still going to depend on what skills you have on cooldown, what your enemies have on cooldown, what your enemies actually have on their toolbar and how smart they are in using their proc's.

A bad player with a crap rotation is still going to do more damage on a lower armorred target than on a high armored one.

[OrsoTheExiled]

I didn't have pocket heals, I didn't wait in stealth and stealth kill (as should be made evident by the fact I did top dmg in game, as pure single target class). If you use assassinate and shock you get lots a Killing blows.

 

yes their team was pretty poor but they had a ton of healers... a ton of them.

 

To stay alive you vanish, and find a teammate with heals... and trust they'll keep you alive.

 

I was protected for maybe 20 seconds in the game, but I used the extra amounts off cc we have to limit the damage I took, plus used deflection and force shroud when needed.

 

Also, soloing a gunslinger is a joke if you just los them when they used their cooldowns and cycle your CC. If they use their 20 sec CC immune, los them...

 

Marauders/sents can be tough because they have terrific defense CDs. Really the key thing is snaring them before they snare you and kite them w/o attacking for 6-7 seconds so that cloak of pain drops off, of else they'll reduce your dmg 20% for 30 sec every min. Like any sith warrior, you need to kite when they pop their defense toys.

[byteresistor]

I didn't have pocket heals

That contradicts what you said earlier: you were the designated ball carrier in a premade. Sure they're not going to heal you

[OrsoTheExiled]

I wasn't the designated ball carrier, I ended up running the ball in the last 30 seconds of the match because more suitable choices weren't around.

 

Big difference between being the designated ball carrier and just running the damn thing.

 

Also, the match is just to support a point, we work just fine. Yes we die fast when focused fired, so do the other dps classes.

 

If you wanted to say we suck you could argue we suck at ilum since it's a range and aoe fest. But we are really good at one on one (fantastic even) and we work just fine in WZ too.

[Pashgan]

Deception utility on ilum is 0 - can't do anything in ranged combat. Darkness has harpoon.

 

Deception utility in warzones is 0 - almost everyone where can kill people and ranged classes do it better. Darkness allow to slow down half of enemy team at once with 30% aoe snare + pull ball carrier (or his/her healer) 30m back or into fire/acid pit, also there is shield with 50% chance which allow to carry ball much more efficient. In Alderaan Darkness allow to hold tower alone against group of 3-4 players for a minute until more players arrive to help. Same for Voidstar with doors protection.

 

If you aren't in Darkness - most likely you failing your team. If it's not a failteam.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Pashgan

[Shinzou]

I ran randoms all day today by myself. Most of the time I was 30 kills or more, and many times I had 0 deaths. If you play it right Deception assassins are great. You just need to pick your battles. I used my vanish quite often, it is there for a reason.

 

I do not even have full pvp gear. I still need four or five pieces. Also this is without using any of my buff CDs. I never used them once, not all day. Mainly because I always forget to use them in the heat of battle.

 

Deception is fine. They could use better survival CDs because we do take a huge amount of damage if focus fired, but then again you won't be focus fired a lot if you know what you are doing.

 

Single target I can take down people a lot faster than darkness can. At my current gear level I have four abilities that hit for 3k+ a hit, and when I go through battle properly I can unleash them all back to back. Usually only those who out-gear me by a lot have a good chance of beating me. Even then I can put a huge dent into them.

 

I am also one of the rare few who do not charge-swap. I keep surging charge active 100% of the time. Could I do better with other? I could, but I would rather get used to the proper mechanic of a deception assassin.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Shinzou

[DarkCyanide]

Deception is more than viable. Great single target with a vast variety of options.

[Contristo]

Deception is more than viable. Great single target with a vast variety of options.

 

Yup.

 

Ive re-specced & tried all skill tree's with my sin and have found Deception to be the most fun to play in PvP. Darkness was about on par for PvE....the only problem is I don't do much PvE. Both Madness & Darkness imo could not deliver as much single target damage & control compaired to Deception.

(FYI I started out in Deception...then tried the other 2...then returned to Deception)

 

I can understand some ppl complaining about us waiting in stealth to pick out enemies that are already being focused and/or low on health...but at the end of the day if you had the skills at your disposal would you pounce from stealth onto the player with a full bar knowing it could be pretty much 50/50 or less, or would you assassinate someone on lower health? i know what I would do.

[Delillo]

I believe the nerf is intended to kill ...

 

This spec revolves around spamming shock with the combination of Electrify, Energize, Induction and Chain Shock. You have massive force regen with the combination of Blood of Sith, Dark Embrace, and Lightning Reflexes.

 

... I believe this is what they are trying to nerf.

 

This is my theory as well. Super Shocks that bypass defenses is not interesting gameplay. Especially as, at launch, these shock combos actually required dark charge, which was already on its own merits the best all around stance/charge.

 

Even the raze change can be traced to the fact that energize produced a guaranteed crit which produced near guaranteed crits from exploitative strikes making raze proc too reliably. Raze was, frankly, better with dark charge rather than the stance from its own tree.

[sshamm]

Having a great single target high DPS class on a team is great for killing off healers, finishing targets that are about to go down, etc. Play the role of your build. As a glass cannon in Deception you are just that. I don't see many people kill off someone during a 2 v 1 situation, yet a Deception Sin can normally take out 1 and run off into the sunset.

[Talmasci]

Would you mind posting your spec as im trying to get used to pvping on my assasin. Btw whats with the force lightning am assuming this is probably due to your spec. Any handy information for my assasin in pvp would be great bud, Thanks