The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Tumri]

Lol so 1v1 sorcs are ok but in group they are op as you can't kill them with there team healing or guarding them . Hahaha this has to be a troll it just has to . please tell me your trolling that you can't solo the sorc that has a team backing him/her

 

 

Wow it's difficult to get people to comprehend what I'm trying to say. In a group setting it's not that they're protected. It's that their utility gains value. This added value to utility makes the incredibly good in any group situation. The fact that they are one of the better classes 1v1 and absolutely godlike in group PvP is why they're imbalanced. They have two major AoE CCs on a 20 second cooldown along with their incredible untalented utility.

 

I'll put it to you this way..

 

In an 8v8 the team with more Sorcerers has the advantage. If one team has a balanced mix of healers and DPS and the other has the same number of healers but with 5 hybrid specced Sorcerers and maybe 1 other non-Sorcerer DPS the second team will have an incredibly high chance of winning.

 

 

Edit: What's the cap for posts in a thread? I feel like this is close to being maxed.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tumri

[Lormif]

Wow it's difficult to get people to comprehend what I'm trying to say. In a group setting it's not that they're protected. It's that their utility gains value. This added value to utility makes the incredibly good in any group situation. The fact that they are one of the better classes 1v1 and absolutely godlike in group PvP is why they're imbalanced. They have two major AoE CCs on a 20 second cooldown along with their incredible untalented utility.

 

I'll put it to you this way..

 

In an 8v8 the team with more Sorcerers has the advantage. If one team has a balanced mix of healers and DPS and the other has the same number of healers but with 5 hybrid specced Sorcerers and maybe 1 other non-Sorcerer DPS the second team will have an incredibly high chance of winning.

 

 

Edit: What's the cap for posts in a thread? I feel like this is close to being maxed.

2 situational AOE CCs, even though calling immobilize a CC is pushing the boundary, not to mention you never replied to my post about the grapple/harpooning...

[Rallic]

The 0/20/21 spec picks up every single cc in every tree except for the slow on affliction from the healing tree.

 

So they don't get all the cc and they can't heal or well the 2 heals they get suck *** if no points into healing

 

Look i don't give out my spec but can say I'm heal/madness how deep into each I can't say.

I do normally around 180k dps and 100k healing , I'm hard as hells to kill by most classes 1v1 as I can out heal your dmg and slowly burn you down using timed cc to stop your spells kite and stun.

 

So 1v1 how I'd play it with most classes is

 

Pop my heal dot, pop recklessness and my crit relic open with my ii natal cast dot and dd spells. They run my chanel spell and slow as it has a small dd with it.

At 3/4 life I pop install stun knowing your going to brake it and rerun heal dot, and ww stun soon as any and all dots are of of you , your stun brake should be down so I can heal to full and repeat. Popping my shield asap to heal keep me from instant dieing.

As a heal spec my purge is a bit better and has a very small heal to. This is a grate spell and can save your ***.

I have 2 bars of hot keys , 1-= and f1-f12 I use them all and run with a +power relic stims +crit relic and PvP heal pots .

Being good is about using all of your class , not just a few skills.

 

I can do well 1v1 with a sorc as I use my class and not just stand that spamming a few skills . In open world ill use mobs , buildings what ever I can .

 

I'm a DAoC pvper , in that game if you hit the caster they stoped casting . So you learmed to kite los train into camps move around and try to stay out of the way of tanks .

 

Learned to have other players pull stun or what ever to get them off of you in groups. I do this in swtor when I can. It's funny staging some one over to a group of 3 or 4 other players. They just tunnel on me not even looking around to see that I'm not the only one casting on them

 

 

 

 

Ok not fixing this one, phone ( this is what it put for pi $$ing= pudding) me off at this point.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Rallic

[Tumri]

2 situational AOE CCs, even though calling immobilize a CC is pushing the boundary, not to mention you never replied to my post about the grapple/harpooning...

 

If grapple DOES indeed work while immobilized that's either a bug or they're the only ones in the game that can do that. Force Charge certainly doesn't work that way.

 

In any case that's ONE class that has an ability that might prevent you from escaping and even they can be countered if you blow your whirlwind or stun on them in the scenario we were talking about earlier.

[Lormif]

If grapple DOES indeed work while immobilized that's either a bug or they're the only ones in the game that can do that. Force Charge certainly doesn't work that way.

 

In any case that's ONE class that has an ability that might prevent you from escaping and even they can be countered if you blow your whirlwind or stun on them in the scenario we were talking about earlier.

 

You can cast any ability, because immobilize is a root, not a stun dude.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/immobilized

 

 

My buddy was able to cast any thing he wanted while immobilized, it is not a bug, you just dont know the meaning of the word. Snares, any and all damage, healing anything. leaps dont work because they are, gasp, movement abilities!

[Tumri]

So they don't get all the cc and they can't heal or well the 2 heals they get suck *** if no points into healing

 

Look i don't give out my spec but can say I'm heal/madness how deep into each I can't say.

I do normally around 180k dps and 100k healing , I'm hard as hells to kill by most classes 1v1 as I can out heal your dmg and slowly burn you down using timed cc to stop your spells kite and stun.

 

So 1v1 how I'd play it with most classes is

 

Pop my heal dot, pop recklessness and my crit relic open with my ii natal cast dot and dd spells. They run my chanel spell and slow as it has a small dd with it.

At 3/4 life I pop install stun knowing your going to brake it and rerun heal dot, and ww stun soon as any and all dots are of of you , your stun brake should be down so I can heal to full and repeat. Popping my shield asap to heal keep me from instant dieing.

As a heal spec my purge is a bit better and has a very small heal to. This is a grate spell and can save your ***.

I have 2 bars of hot keys , 1-= and f1-f12 I use them all and run with a +power relic stims +crit relic and PvP heal pots .

Being good is about using all of your class , not just a few skills.

 

I can do well 1v1 with a sorc as I use my class and not just stand that spamming a few skills . In open world ill use mobs , buildings what ever I can .

 

I'm a DAoC pvper , in that game if you hit the caster they stoped casting . So you learmed to kite los train into camps move around and try to stay out of the way of tanks .

 

Learned to have other players pull stun or what ever to get them off of you in groups. I do this in swtor when I can. It's funny staging some one over to a group of 3 or 4 other players. They just tunnel on me not even looking around to see that I'm not the only one casting on them

 

180k damage and 100k healing is slightly better than nothing. Players using the spec in the OP can regularly pull 400-600k while bringing a lot more utility. You just MIGHT be slightly better off in a 1v1 scenario with your healing spec.

 

@ The 2 hotbars thing.. yeah don't even try to pull that card. Marauders have nearly three full bars of abilities to use on a regular basis and I even avoid putting certain abilities on my bar. Just look at my screenshots from the other post.

[Rallic]

If grapple DOES indeed work while immobilized that's either a bug or they're the only ones in the game that can do that. Force Charge certainly doesn't work that way.

 

In any case that's ONE class that has an ability that might prevent you from escaping and even they can be countered if you blow your whirlwind or stun on them in the scenario we were talking about earlier.

 

I don't get away much when im getting my *** handed to me but some Times I do.

I don't see sorcs as op I see the there is a broke cc system in that we can all just stump and stun and stun. That's the problem as I se it

[Tumri]

You can cast any ability, because immobilize is a root, not a stun dude.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/immobilized

 

 

My buddy was able to cast any thing he wanted while immobilized, it is not a bug, you just dont know the meaning of the word. Snares, any and all damage, healing anything. leaps dont work because they are, gasp, movement abilities!

 

Now I realize my mistake. I've been calling the bubble pop an immobilize when it's a blind that acts as an AoE stun that's broken on damage. I had the effect right but the word I was using was wrong. Electric Bindings is an immobilize though so I'm guessing that's what you've been testing.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tumri

[Rallic]

180k damage and 100k healing is slightly better than nothing. Players using the spec in the OP can regularly pull 400-600k while bringing a lot more utility. You just MIGHT be slightly better off in a 1v1 scenario with your healing spec.

 

@ The 2 hotbars thing.. yeah don't even try to pull that card. Marauders have nearly three full bars of abilities to use on a regular basis and I even avoid putting certain abilities on my bar. Just look at my screenshots from the other post.

 

Marauders are one class I like the idea of but have not tryed yet past 20

 

So far

I sort of hooked on my shadow but

Sorc

Jug

shadow

Merc

I just can't stop playing my shadow

[Caeliux]

I make Sorc's and Sages cry.

[Lormif]

Now I realize my mistake. I've been calling the bubble pop an immobilize when it's a blind that acts as an AoE stun that's broken on damage. Electric Bindings is an immobilize though.

 

Except even then it does not work as well as you say, it only works on those in melee range, so about half the classes will still be ok and stun/snare/damage me to their desire, so your argument is still flawed.

[Tumri]

I don't get away much when im getting my *** handed to me but some Times I do.

I don't see sorcs as op I see the there is a broke cc system in that we can all just stump and stun and stun. That's the problem as I se it

 

While the resolve system's epic failure is a huge issue that is part of why hybrid CC spec sorcerers are OP I highly doubt we're getting a resolve rework anytime soon. The point is with current game mechanics the hybrid CC spec is OP. In the future if they change the resolve system then they'll have to rebalance for it. Ignoring a class that's overpowered when picking up a lot of CC talents just because of the current resolve system doesn't make sense. You balance the game around current mechanics, not possible future mechanics.

[Tumri]

Except even then it does not work as well as you say, it only works on those in melee range, so about half the classes will still be ok and stun/snare/damage me to their desire, so your argument is still flawed.

 

The original scenario we were talking about involved being piled by two melee. They'd be in melee range so I don't see how it's a flawed argument.

[shaidarlol]

The original scenario we were talking about involved being piled by two melee. They'd be in melee range so I don't see how it's a flawed argument.

 

so what if 1 of the melee uses his brain and waits for the 1st melee to break the bubble 1st?

[Lormif]

The original scenario we were talking about involved being piled by two melee. They'd be in melee range so I don't see how it's a flawed argument.

 

So it is a very situational argument, that covers only half of the classes, and still doesnt work... See the stun only lasts 2 seconds, the legth of the force run. Force run takes you 30m max before it runs out, so the meless can still leap/grapple...

[Tumri]

so what if 1 of the melee uses his brain and waits for the 1st melee to break the bubble 1st?

 

Whirlwind. Stun. Knockback+Root(immobilize). Force Sprint whenever you have the chance.

 

The original point that I was trying to make was that Sorcerers have the best chance of escaping a 2v1 not "If two people perfect coordinate absolute everything will a Sorcerer still be able to escape with 100% certainty".

Edited February 14, 2012 by Tumri

[Lormif]

Whirlwind. Stun. Knockback+Root(immobilize). Force Sprint whenever you have the chance.

 

The original point that I was trying to make was that Sorcerers have the best chance of escaping a 2v1 not "If two people perfect coordinate absolute everything will a Sorcerer still be able to escape with 100% certainty".

 

Again, it does not work like you state, force run will never get you out of range from a melee character before your other abilities, short of whirlwind (which is single target) runs out.

[shaidarlol]

Whirlwind. Stun. Knockback+Root(immobilize). Force Sprint whenever you have the chance.

 

The original point that I was trying to make was that Sorcerers have the best chance of escaping a 2v1 not "If two people perfect coordinate absolute everything will a Sorcerer still be able to escape with 100% certainty".

 

so how do you feel about marauders popping their invincible cd and then vanish vs 8 ppl?

[Darth_Eclipses]

Whirlwind. Stun. Knockback+Root(immobilize). Force Sprint whenever you have the chance.

 

The original point that I was trying to make was that Sorcerers have the best chance of escaping a 2v1 not "If two people perfect coordinate absolute everything will a Sorcerer still be able to escape with 100% certainty".

 

They get 30m away Max. That doesn't mean that they've escaped.

 

Assassins/Shadows, Scoundrels/Operatives and Sentinels/Marauders have the best chance of escaping 2v1's with their in combat stealth, that usually comes talented with a speed increase so they can get away from any PBAoE that might land thereafter.

 

You can see where a Sage/Sorc runs too after they get off an AOE mezz or root. You can chase. You cannot chase what you cannot see and therefore they will always come in after those other classes.

 

Not to mention that Shadows/Sins and Ops/Scounds both leave combat in their in combat stealth, whereas a sage or sorc will still be in combat, therefore any healing that they MIGHT do after running away will:

 

A. Take forever to cast (rooting them in place for 2seconds) as they aren't healing speccd and

 

B. Be debuffed by Trauma

[Rallic]

While the resolve system's epic failure is a huge issue that is part of why hybrid CC spec sorcerers are OP I highly doubt we're getting a resolve rework anytime soon. The point is with current game mechanics the hybrid CC spec is OP. In the future if they change the resolve system then they'll have to rebalance for it. Ignoring a class that's overpowered when picking up a lot of CC talents just because of the current resolve system doesn't make sense. You balance the game around current mechanics, not possible future mechanics.

 

This is my point , your asking to nerf a class that don't need it , fix tje problem. Needing sorc still leaves a busted cc system that other classes can use.

 

This is group play so stunned 8 times by 1 sorc or 8 players still the same outcome

 

Fix resolve and this tjread is moot.

[Tumri]

This is my point , your asking to nerf a class that don't need it , fix tje problem. Needing sorc still leaves a busted cc system that other classes can use.

 

This is group play so stunned 8 times by 1 sorc or 8 players still the same outcome

 

Fix resolve and this tjread is moot.

 

Resolve won't be buffed for a long time. Its' not OK to leave a class OP until resolve gets buffed.

[Lormif]

Resolve won't be buffed for a long time. Its' not OK to leave a class OP until resolve gets buffed.

 

Again, the class is not OP, you still have not addressed how being 30m away is escaping...

[Rallic]

Resolve won't be buffed for a long time. Its' not OK to leave a class OP until resolve gets buffed.

 

If we put the voice into it that this and other misguided nerf this threads have tjey might .

 

Treating the symptoms and not the cause will not be good for the game.

Stun locked is stun locked , sorc pt ops assassins and The list gos on for mass cc .

This is a team game one class is not the only one using cc so nerfing sorcs still will not fix it .

 

Me I think with the slow dps a sorc has the cc is all that keeps them from instant death.

Bit as my assassin if they fix resolve ill never die ever so fix it niw

[Tumri]

It doesn't matter. They have excessive CC -RIGHT NOW- and as a result they are overpowered -RIGHT NOW- and that's a problem.

[Lormif]

It doesn't matter. They have excessive CC -RIGHT NOW- and as a result they are overpowered -RIGHT NOW- and that's a problem.

 

So everything you mention we counter so you just fall back to the gross generalization logical fallacy, nice...