The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[Varicite]

They may serve the same purpose, but in PvP, one is a LOT more dependable than the other to actually use effectively.

 

Especially when out of melee range.

 

 

----

 

See what I did there?

 

Yeah, it sure would be awesome if you had some way to get into melee range on a short cooldown that also acted as an interrupt and immobilize, and then had a snare to give you more time on target.

 

Wait...

[Tumri]

Datku I was against including things like purge but since people are bringing those sorts of abilities up now as utility I was forced to add them.

[Tumri]

Yeah, it sure would be awesome if you had some way to get into melee range on a short cooldown that also acted as an interrupt and immobilize, and then had a snare to give you more time on target.

 

Wait...

 

Yeah, it sure would be awesome if you had some way to knockback on a short cooldown that also acted as an interrupt and immobilize, and then had a snare to give you more time to create distance from the target.

 

Wait...

 

-----

 

I can do this all day. You're not going to convince anyone that a ranged filler with a 50% slow and more damage(and resulting in a net gain of resources) is somehow weaker than a melee attack combo(which results in a net of 0 resources) that does less damage and has no such CC attached.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri

[Gotryce]

Sorcs/Sages are just so overpowered it is ridic. I hate it when I'm in my pre cent pvp gear and I enter a WZ and I can't take down a full BM geared Sorc/Sage. It is just insane that they can kill me, but I can't kill them. They are so op it's a disgrace to the game. Compound the fact they get so much CC + the ridic damage output they do. Every WZ I'm in they top damage chart. They are doing 300k+ while talking on the phone, its just ridic. Omg it's insane when I see full BM geared Sorc/Sage land a 3k hit on my 0 exp. geared char. Omg omg omg ridic, op op op. /sarcasm.

[antiviolence]

Straight from the horse's mouth above. Just because you claim someone else can do something or do it better, doesn't negate the utility your class has. And lets not leave "Defensive CDs" as only 1 point when there are multiple. Looks very similar if you add your interupt and explain each defensive cooldown. You may have more utility, but its more fun to attack other classes.

 

 

 

 

1. 4 second 30yrd range stun with a 60s CD.

 

2. Force Slow.

 

3. A slow build into their main filler attack(Force Lightning).

 

5. Force Sprint, a 20(30 untalented) second cooldown 150% speed boost that is the best of it's kind. That lasts for only 1.5 Seconds

 

6. A 20 second CD(shortest in the game) knockback plus 5 second root attached to the above knockback. 30 second cooldown

 

7. A bubble that provides between 3.2k absorption plus 3 second AoE immobilize attached to it.

 

8. A 60s CD single target immobilize(whirlwind/force lift). Full resolve bar, last resort, usually broken right away plus a 2s duration stun if the above immobilize is broken by damage.

 

9. A 12 second CD 30 yard range interrupt. Most if not all classes have an interupt

 

5. 1.5s on a 20/30s cd that can get you out of range/LoS is still a huge gain.

 

7. 3.2k bubble that essentially gives you 3.2k HP more than anyone. If the person isn't able to kill you fast enough, you gain another 3.2k HP once debuff is gone.

 

8. ww/fl if it doesn't break means someone is pretty much stuck.

 

9. Yes all classes have an interrupt. Most if not all of them require mid-melee range instead of 30 yards. GS/Sniper interrupt is 10m range and requires them go get out of cover.

[MaroBaro]

Sorcerers are OP before 50... I was finishing my weeklies on my 3 50s today and I noticed something very strange... there was no lighting in like ~30 WZs. It's kind of big when I've been playing my alts all week and up to 49 all you see is lighting everywhere.Marauders are kicking ***. I'm rolling one soon!!!!

 

p.s. I made an alt sorc and just took it to lvl 15 and yes it is pretty overpowered even then... op because it so so easy. You just stand there and do Force Lighting, the other lighting thing that is instant lighting, the third lighting thingie that takes 1.5 secs. Repeat. Never run out of Force, never have to do anything else. Deleted the character after that, I have some pain to watch drying!

Edited February 13, 2012 by MaroBaro

[Darth_Eclipses]

Yeah, it sure would be awesome if you had some way to knockback on a short cooldown that also acted as an interrupt and immobilize, and then had a snare to give you more time to create distance from the target.

 

Wait...

 

Nevermind that there are specs and other classes that are immune to such utility for limited amounts of time in their own talent tree.

 

Wait...

 

I mean, doesn't your class get a freaking AOE Mezz, that lasts how long exactly? Is that also not spammable, acts as an interrupt and an immobilize? Do you not get an AOE snare?

 

I find it highly ironic (or sad - pick your choice) you are playing the most OP 1v1 pvp class in the game, even able to go up against multiple opponents and due to your defensive cds able to kill one or more before escaping and yet you have the brazen mindset to come here and whine about a class that any Sent/Marauder with half a brain will utterly destroy while they attempt to get a proc off of a channeled ability.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Darth_Eclipses

[DrCereal]

Excellent post OP. It saddens me a bit that it attracted so many trolls.

 

Clearly, hybrid-spec Sorc's are OP, and *NEED* to be nerfed. The nerf will be a good thing for the whole community, including Sorcerors. It will allow them to spec fully into a tree without "gimping" themselves.

 

Bioware has made it clear that they want you to spec fully (31 pts) into a tree. They've made some comments against hybrids before (beta forums, gone now). But most importantly, since actions speak louder than words, we can look at the assassin nerf that killed off hybrid specs for them.

 

I am completely expecting a Sorc nerf soon. It would surprise me if they didn't; moreso, it would make me lose some trust in Bioware as an MMO developer. The last thing we want is a repeat of the Bright Wizard fiasco.

Edited February 13, 2012 by DrCereal

[Gotryce]

excellent post op. It saddens me a bit that it attracted so many trolls.

 

Clearly, hybrid-spec sorc's are op, and *need* to be nerfed. The nerf will be a good thing for the whole community, including sorcerors. It will allow them to spec fully into a tree without "gimping" themselves.

 

Bioware has made it clear that they want you to spec fully (31 pts) into a tree. They've made some comments against hybrids before (beta forums, gone now). But most importantly, since actions speak louder than words, we can look at the assassin nerf that killed off hybrid specs for them.

 

I am completely expecting a sorc nerf soon. It would surprise me if they didn't; moreso, it would make me lose some trust in bioware as an mmo developer. The last thing we want is a repeat of the bright wizard fiasco.

 

troll. Mindless lemming. Need to go die in a fire.

[Gotryce]

Sorcerers are OP before 50... I was finishing my weeklies on my 3 50s today and I noticed something very strange... there was no lighting in like ~30 WZs. It's kind of big when I've been playing my alts all week and up to 49 all you see is lighting everywhere.Marauders are kicking ***. I'm rolling one soon!!!!

 

p.s. I made an alt sorc and just took it to lvl 15 and yes it is pretty overpowered even then... op because it so so easy. You just stand there and do Force Lighting, the other lighting thing that is instant lighting, the third lighting thingie that takes 1.5 secs. Repeat. Never run out of Force, never have to do anything else. Deleted the character after that, I have some pain to watch drying!

 

I am amazed at your in-depth analysis and logical conclusion of the class overall based on your detailed expertise. Please comment more so we can all gain the insightful knowledge that only you can have gauged by the throughout playing of the class at a 1st grade level.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Gotryce

[Tumri]

Nevermind that there are specs and other classes that are immune to such utility for limited amounts of time in their own talent tree.

 

Wait...

 

I mean, doesn't your class get a freaking AOE Mezz, that lasts how long exactly? Is that also not spammable, acts as an interrupt and an immobilize? Do you not get an AOE snare?

 

I find it highly ironic (or sad - pick your choice) you are playing the most OP 1v1 pvp class in the game, even able to go up against multiple opponents and due to your defensive cds able to kill one or more before escaping and yet you have the brazen mindset to come here and whine about a class that any Sent/Marauder with half a brain will utterly destroy while they attempt to get a proc off of a channeled ability.

 

@ The AoE mezz comment - Erm.. no? It's a 6 second duration immobilize on a 1.5 minute cooldown. The Sorcerer bubble pop I mentioned does the exact same thing with a 3 second duration and a 20 second cooldown. It also activates automatically if bubble pops and this basically provides immunity to being bursted down while bubble is up..

 

[ sarcasm ]

 

@ 1v1 Comment - Yay me! I can totally kill someone 1v1 and act all macho and cool before proceeding to be the most worthless class in group confrontations! Obviously you only get e-peen from 1v1s so who cares about actually providing utility to win a game! Marauders are #1!

 

[/sarcasm ]

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri

[MaroBaro]

I am amazed at your in-depth analysis and logical conclusion of the class overall based on your detailed expertise. Please comment more so we can all gain the insightful knowledge that only you can have gauged by the throughout playing of the class at a 1st grade level.

 

Thank you for your sarcasm. Having some 275+ levels under my characters does indeed give me a bit of insight and in-depth knowledge of the game. But enough about me... after all I am not the one crying 'cause a sorcerer made me dead and then mommy (read:BW) doesn't do anything about it!

 

And by the way I don't need to go to lvl 50 to know things about a class. I kick a** at 15, I see other sorcerers and sorcerer-only teams kick a** before 15, then I play hundreds of warzones with my 50s and I see no lighting. I see them healing at corners when I send an interupt their way but other than that - none, zilch, ever make it to the top spots because they are usually reserved for my sniper, merc or operative.

Edited February 13, 2012 by MaroBaro

[Tumri]

Thank you for your sarcasm. Having some 275+ levels under my characters does indeed give me a bit of insight and in-depth knowledge of the game. But enough about me... after all I am not the one crying 'cause a sorcerer made me dead and then mommy (read:BW) doesn't do anything about it!

 

To be fair the other post wasn't exactly well thought out. People tend to see your posts in a different light when you type out your messages improperly. This post I'm quoting now makes you appear more intelligent(although more angry as well).

 

I also think it's a bit of an exaggeration saying you didn't encounter many Sorcerers in 30 WZs lol.. I don't care what server you're from but that's like paranormal activity in present day SWTOR.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tumri

[dcgregorya]

Remove force speed or give it to every class.

[MaroBaro]

To be fair the other post wasn't exactly well thought out. People tend to see your posts in a different light when you type out your messages improperly. This post I'm quoting now makes you appear more intelligent(although more angry as well).

 

I also think it's a bit of an exaggeration saying you didn't encounter many Sorcerers in 30 WZs lol.. I don't care what server you're from but that's like paranormal activity in present day SWTOR.

I am on Warriors Of The Shadow... I am not sure why there weren't many but on my teams I always check the roster before each game just so I know what we got. And pretty much maybe 5 games in a row I didn't have a single sorcerer on my teams.

 

Maybe people are leveling them up now. Maybe the other teams got more of them but it seems that lvl 50 sorcerers go for healing rather than lighting. At lvl 50 with good gear and people knowing how to use their interrupts just makes it really hard for them. Personally when I snipe and I notice someone channeling something I click em, interupt, and go back to my target.

 

As far as OP post I think it is correct as far as I know about their trees. Certainly sounds well thought out. Personally I think their main problem comes from the fact that Force Lighting slows you down while doing a heap of damage. Most other classes I play with do either one or the other. Like with my sniper Leg Shot deals minimal damage. Also, for some reason they never seem to run out of force. Trying doing 5 snipes in a row and then you pray they kill you faster so you respawn with full energy. I am not sure but it didnt seem that their force regen rate was affected by the amount of force they already have while Snipers and BH have to be careful because going out of bounds makes you useless unless you can exit combat and heal.

 

Also I think Force Lighting is visually confusing. They do it and my screen is all in sparkless, crackling coming out of my speakers, and is very disorienting and confusing.

 

And the bubble is kind a ridicoulus too. Most other classes have bubbles but they give you either a big amount of dodge or whatver for a very short duration mostly 3 secs or they give you damage reduction between 20-50 percent. As far as I am know sorcs bubble is the only thing in the game that flat out gives you about 3-4k extra life every 20 seconds... that is like a free medpack right there with 20 sec cooldown... on top of your medpacks which is pretty stupid.

 

Anyway, I wasn't looking for an argument or trying to offend anyone. Just sharing what I've noticed.

[DrCereal]

troll. Mindless lemming. Need to go die in a fire.

 

Let me guess. You play a Sorc. Get ready for nerfs then

[Rallic]

I am on Warriors Of The Shadow... I am not sure why there weren't many but on my teams I always check the roster before each game just so I know what we got. And pretty much maybe 5 games in a row I didn't have a single sorcerer on my teams.

 

Maybe people are leveling them up now. Maybe the other teams got more of them but it seems that lvl 50 sorcerers go for healing rather than lighting. At lvl 50 with good gear and people knowing how to use their interrupts just makes it really hard for them. Personally when I snipe and I notice someone channeling something I click em, interupt, and go back to my target.

 

As far as OP post I think it is correct as far as I know about their trees. Certainly sounds well thought out. Personally I think their main problem comes from the fact that Force Lighting slows you down while doing a heap of damage. Most other classes I play with do either one or the other. Like with my sniper Leg Shot deals minimal damage. Also, for some reason they never seem to run out of force. Trying doing 5 snipes in a row and then you pray they kill you faster so you respawn with full energy. I am not sure but it didnt seem that their force regen rate was affected by the amount of force they already have while Snipers and BH have to be careful because going out of bounds makes you useless unless you can exit combat and heal.

 

Also I think Force Lighting is visually confusing. They do it and my screen is all in sparkless, crackling coming out of my speakers, and is very disorienting and confusing.

 

And the bubble is kind a ridicoulus too. Most other classes have bubbles but they give you either a big amount of dodge or whatver for a very short duration mostly 3 secs or they give you damage reduction between 20-50 percent. As far as I am know sorcs bubble is the only thing in the game that flat out gives you about 3-4k extra life every 20 seconds... that is like a free medpack right there with 20 sec cooldown... on top of your medpacks which is pretty stupid.

 

Anyway, I wasn't looking for an argument or trying to offend anyone. Just sharing what I've noticed.

 

Are channeled lighteming hits takes for 400ish a tick none crits, ops and other more squishys for 800ish and my big crits are in the 1200 range so if that massive dmg ya we got it.

 

My instant hits none crit for around 2500 , that my bit cast .

I am heal/madness spec as the lightening/madness is a proc spec and I don't like random procs. I know that chain lightening can hit hard but nothing like a sniper , ops or even a merc.

 

It's odd to me.that mercs hit harder use 2 skills and spam the hells out of one. Do runs more dmg then a sorc yet sorcs not sages are getting the fire.

 

It's the gfx of lightening I think. It's big and a shocker to nubs/bad players so they call nerf.

The QQers are a small number on this forum. Out of the countless people playing there are very few QQing nerf

[Tumri]

Are channeled lighteming hits takes for 400ish a tick none crits, ops and other more squishys for 800ish and my big crits are in the 1200 range so if that massive dmg ya we got it.

 

My instant hits none crit for around 2500 , that my bit cast .

I am heal/madness spec as the lightening/madness is a proc spec and I don't like random procs. I know that chain lightening can hit hard but nothing like a sniper , ops or even a merc.

 

It's odd to me.that mercs hit harder use 2 skills and spam the hells out of one. Do runs more dmg then a sorc yet sorcs not sages are getting the fire.

 

It's the gfx of lightening I think. It's big and a shocker to nubs/bad players so they call nerf.

The QQers are a small number on this forum. Out of the countless people playing there are very few QQing nerf

 

Please read the entire original post. I feel that you'd be able to make a far more relevant and informative post if you actually read the arguments I was making and what I think should be done.

[Smashbrother]

Not really, seeing as how sprint itself only lasts 2 seconds, and after the knockback, I'm on a 1.5 second Global. And if you can't gain that ground while I'm throwing up a 3 second heal afterwards, well I don't know what else there is to say.

 

And that already happens with 31 mad spec. The root is not attached to any other skill, and it's on a 9 second CD. Plus it's a DoT that is affected by DF. I can root you twice before I can knockback again, which ups my survivability even more, and thats from a 31 madness spec.

 

Wow you don't even know your own class. Sprint is not on the GCD. You can use your knockback and sprint at the same time. 2 sec sprint is enough time for you to run around a corner and LoS me so I can't leap to you. This allows you to just heal away or w/e u want to do.

 

The root and knockback needs to be separated.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Smashbrother

[MaroBaro]

Are channeled lighteming hits takes for 400ish a tick none crits, ops and other more squishys for 800ish and my big crits are in the 1200 range so if that massive dmg ya we got it.

 

My instant hits none crit for around 2500 , that my bit cast .

I am heal/madness spec as the lightening/madness is a proc spec and I don't like random procs. I know that chain lightening can hit hard but nothing like a sniper , ops or even a merc.

 

It's odd to me.that mercs hit harder use 2 skills and spam the hells out of one. Do runs more dmg then a sorc yet sorcs not sages are getting the fire.

 

It's the gfx of lightening I think. It's big and a shocker to nubs/bad players so they call nerf.

The QQers are a small number on this forum. Out of the countless people playing there are very few QQing nerf

 

I agree with you. The gfx are a big part of the problem. For the records I do not play Arsenal on my merc and do not spam missiles.

 

Agents and BH cannot reliably run away however. If they are going to die they will die.And for huttball running with the ball at 150% is unfair. They have to make it at least that if you've got the ball you cannot run like normal just like normal classes get speed decrease with the ball.

[antiviolence]

It's the gfx of lightening I think. It's big and a shocker to nubs/bad players so they call nerf.

The QQers are a small number on this forum. Out of the countless people playing there are very few QQing nerf

 

Hi. Welcome to a few weeks back when people were calling for Ops/Scoundrel nerf with baseless assumptions, where everyone just started throwing out random numbers and assume all numbers generated came from a single source. This is the SWTOR forums for you. Same goes when people were trying to oust the Merc/Commandos with numbers like 4k-5k per tracer/grav round. It happens and I'm, sadistically, kinda glad other classes are now feeling the grief that comes with these lies

[GrandMike]

1. No. I said that they do LESS damage than a Sorcerer on the move. If they do decide to blow all their energy/heat then sure, they do a bit more.

 

2. That's exactly what I'm saying. Shock hits harder than anything I have in Annihilation spec other than Annihilate. My Vicious Slash hits for around 1800 damage in Rakata gear and 550 power. I suppose Rupture does more damage than Shock if you count all the DoT ticks that come with it but in that case Affliction does a lot as well.

 

3. Yes I realize it's not great but it's certainly a lot of on the move damage if you have multiple people around to Tab-DoT and can't stop to cast. It's damage over time but so is most of my Annihilation spec damage and people on this thread(not you) have called it "very strong".

 

Sooo, your argument is that if you run around like headless chicken and tab-dot everyone with 1550 unmitigated damage over 15s (in BM/Rakata gear) is OP and needs to be nefed.

 

K

 

What, next youll say you should use your lighstabre skillz, cause, you know, its dps on the move lol

 

And FYI, unless you are only one left defending an objective, running around like headless chiken trying to dot everyone is one of worst things you can do. L2P, thats what baddies do.

 

Sorcerers are OP before 50... I was finishing my weeklies on my 3 50s today and I noticed something very strange... there was no lighting in like ~30 WZs. It's kind of big when I've been playing my alts all week and up to 49 all you see is lighting everywhere.Marauders are kicking ***. I'm rolling one soon!!!!

 

p.s. I made an alt sorc and just took it to lvl 15 and yes it is pretty overpowered even then... op because it so so easy. You just stand there and do Force Lighting, the other lighting thing that is instant lighting, the third lighting thingie that takes 1.5 secs. Repeat. Never run out of Force, never have to do anything else. Deleted the character after that, I have some pain to watch drying!

 

Yah, its like that against bads lvl1-49 pvp is hilarious, its good if 10% of people know what and where objectives are, let alone how to counter a sorc ;P

 

So your lvl15 is not indication of anything. Game is not balanced around lvl15 characters. or 1-49 characters.

 

Lighting slows you down while doing a heap of damage.

 

Lighning does 1500 damage/GCD in BM/Rakata gear, requires standing and channeling, can be easily interrupted etc, etc.

 

5. 1.5s on a 20/30s cd that can get you out of range/LoS is still a huge gain.

 

7. 3.2k bubble that essentially gives you 3.2k HP more than anyone. If the person isn't able to kill you fast enough, you gain another 3.2k HP once debuff is gone.

 

8. ww/fl if it doesn't break means someone is pretty much stuck.

 

9. Yes all classes have an interrupt. Most if not all of them require mid-melee range instead of 30 yards. GS/Sniper interrupt is 10m range and requires them go get out of cover.

 

5. during which you can be cced in any way. Simple root, that doesnt even fill resolve, negates this completely. L2P

 

7. And you are most squishy class in the game with no defensive CDs, only defence is brave Sir Robin tactics (which works in like 5% of time).

 

8. So a class that utilizes dots shouldnt dot things? Rite

 

9. No, it doesnt require to get out of cover. Btw you can interrupt with knockback. There you go.

 

-------------------------

 

Are bads done complaining yet?

 

The end talents are gonna get buffed so they are worth taking. That will solve this hybrid "troubles". Not some pointless shuffling around talents.

Edited February 13, 2012 by GrandMike

[DarthHarvey]

I'm with Tumri, Sorcs need to be nerfed INTO THE GROUND.

[antiviolence]

5. during which you can be cced in any way. Simple root, that doesnt even fill resolve, negates this completely. L2P

 

7. And you are most squishy class in the game with no defensive CDs, only defence is brave Sir Robin tactics (which works in like 5% of time).

 

8. So a class that utilizes dots shouldnt dot things? Rite

 

9. No, it doesnt require to get out of cover. Btw you can interrupt with knockback. There you go.

 

5. By your logic, you can live without the sprint since its almost useless the way you've put it. L2P without it.

 

7. Yes a defensive CD that absorbs 3.2k damage that can be used every 20 seconds.

 

8. Just like every other class who uses DoTs who have CC's that break on damage? LOL

 

9. Yes we can interrupt with knockback. Glad that you know you have that option too.

 

[GrandMike]

5. By your logic, you can live without the sprint since its almost useless the way you've put it. L2P without it.

 

7. Yes a defensive CD that absorbs 3.2k damage that can be used every 20 seconds.

 

8. Just like every other class who uses DoTs who have CC's that break on damage? LOL

 

9. Yes we can interrupt with knockback. Glad that you know you have that option too.

 

 

5. Its useless against good players. L2P And, FYI, this particualr skill is much more useful in completely different situations. I rarely use it like you describe. Why? Its GROUP game and sage is more useful doing what he is supposed to do to help his group than headlessly running around with force speed.

 

7. Yes. Only defensive thing for squishiest class. Bubble that breakes in 1 hit. NERF! By giving sorc/sage heavy armor (increase armor like assasins/shadows) and more HP. Id gladly take it. Saves GCDs and mitigates much much more.

 

8. Whats your point? Do you even think about what you write? You are obviously unaware that other classes that have same type of skill. that is aoe. and dont require talents high in the tree to make it instant. yes, lets ignore facts.

 

9. So whats the problem? If you cant burn sorc in 1vs1 fight as sniper/GS L2P lol. Worst thing that can happen is he runs away. But then ive seen so many bad snipers that it isnt wonder they complain about stuff.

 

Pretty much every issue you mention is L2P issue, not sorc/sage issue.

 

Just like OP: i can kill them just fine, but, you know, bad players cant, so nerf anyway! lol

Edited February 13, 2012 by GrandMike