Critable orange gear undermines intent of removable epic base mods

[Cournel]

Here's a little math for you. At full Rakata with a stim I'm sitting at 1734 str without any buffs. Now, my rakata stim is 136 str and 56 power which is getting nerfed for being unfair ok I understand that. If you take all the raid mods out of the raid gear put it into orange gear with augment slots, guess what? Augments are +28 of your main stat at level 49. 28X5=140. So I'm looking at 1734(I've gotten the +10 and +30 from collecting all my datacrons)-26 (1.1.2.)+140=1848. Now if you factor in the inquisitor buff 1848+92=1940.

This isn't even factoring other possiblities like critting on a Rakata belt/Bracer and getting augment slots on those as well.

 

Now, if you nerfed Biochem twice and you're going to do this I truly believe you guys are bat **** crazy and have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

[littleming]

I vote for crafted item that adds an augment slot to gear. This would further encourage leveling specific crafting professions and give those professions a viable source of income. I think the augment enhancements (like suggested by others) Should be limited in use to only things that profession can craft for.

 

Example, armormech would be able to craft augments for non-force users armor. Armstech would be able to craft augments for non-force weapons. Synth for force user armor, and Artifice for force user weapons.

 

Since biochem and cybertech already have incentives to level them (grenades, high level armor mods, speeders, reusable stims, medpacks, and adrenals) they don't really need the boost these other professions do.

Edited February 7, 2012 by littleming

[illgot]

i dont think augments are going to make up for the set bonuses on raid/pvp sets anyway

 

that issue aside i dont know why they dont just make it so that crafters can reverse engineer ALL existing armor in the game with a chance to learn its recipe. if you had a piece you wanted the look of a crafter should be able to "remake" that look with an augment slot for you

 

this should be an armormech perk, as it is, there is currently no reason to keep armormech aside from gearing out alts and even than, not all of them

 

crafting in this game is so broken it would take me pages to list the current problems

 

I like this idea. I like the idea of an appearance window better because it is more realistic due to the fact that an appearance window is A LOT less work for the developers.

[OsarionRDM]

How about we get rid of orange gear altogether?

 

No, seriously... Just toss slotted gear and add an appearance tab. How many problems would this solve?

[Shadinaxx]

How about we get rid of orange gear altogether?

 

No, seriously... Just toss slotted gear and add an appearance tab. How many problems would this solve?

 

Because the moddable gear is great for stat priority selection. For instance, an annihilation marauder wants to have more power than crit, and more surge than crit, but a Carnage marauder wants more surge than power and more power than crit. So the slottable gear makes for being able to tailor for the individual specs.

[OsarionRDM]

Because the moddable gear is great for stat priority selection. For instance, an annihilation marauder wants to have more power than crit, and more surge than crit, but a Carnage marauder wants more surge than power and more power than crit. So the slottable gear makes for being able to tailor for the individual specs.

 

Crafters can create critical gear which has things like more power, crit, etc. If more people crafted and focused on getting purple schematics, things like this would be more readily available. We would not need orange gear.

[Kalliadies]

Here's a little math for you. At full Rakata with a stim I'm sitting at 1734 str without any buffs. Now, my rakata stim is 136 str and 56 power which is getting nerfed for being unfair ok I understand that. If you take all the raid mods out of the raid gear put it into orange gear with augment slots, guess what? Augments are +28 of your main stat at level 49. 28X5=140. So I'm looking at 1734(I've gotten the +10 and +30 from collecting all my datacrons)-26 (1.1.2.)+140=1848. Now if you factor in the inquisitor buff 1848+92=1940.

This isn't even factoring other possiblities like critting on a Rakata belt/Bracer and getting augment slots on those as well.

 

Now, if you nerfed Biochem twice and you're going to do this I truly believe you guys are bat **** crazy and have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

 

They didnt nerf it because it was OP, they nerfed it because Being biochem was OP and was almost a necessity.

 

Orange gear with augment slots would be available to EVERYone, not just some guy with that crafting profession

Edited February 7, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Shadinaxx]

Crafters can create critical gear which has things like more power, crit, etc. If more people crafted and focused on getting purple schematics, things like this would be more readily available. We would not need orange gear.

 

orange gear and purple gear (the high end ones) have mods in them both, thing is, the orange gear has no base stats, but have all the mod slots opened up. Perhaps with this patch, where they have opened up the armoring on raid gear, the crafted purple gear will have their armoring opened up as well, making your entire arguement moot.

[KKraken]

What about a slot in your gear that is like the costumization slot of the companions ie it changes the appearance of your gear but does not touch the stats. Ofc it would be for each visible peace of your gear. We could avoid the boring clone wars, would be a good income source for the armorers and would solve you balance problems.

[Karkais]

Except the set bonuses are going to move with the mods...

 

Umm what? No, I don't think so. Set bonus is part of the gear, not part of the mods.

 

About some other ideas posted: allowing crafters get schematics of the endgame gear sounds just wrong. What would be the reason to do endgame instances then?

 

Appearance tab would solve most of the problems involved with looks, and might give crafters something extra to craft.

 

Things that bug me the most currently:

- endgame gear looks like garbage (PVP sets look pretty good, but they are pvp sets)

- Different people all look the same cause they are wearing that gear

- 97% of inquisitor gear (non-endgame gear) looks similar and not particularly good.

 

Im not sure the augment slots are automatically better than set bonuses, because stats suffer from diminishing returns usually.

[MiepMiep]

100% sign @ OP.

 

Never seen so short thinking devs in any other mmporg.

[EsteManhandler]

OP is right one hundred and ten percent, I said the same thing when someone told me that the crafted orange gear would now be able to crit.

 

Biowares attempts at being different from the 'wow clone' mmo's is actually setting them back. I think someone should tell them of the idiom don't fix what isn't broken, meaning just put in a G O D D A M N E D wardrobe instead of create some convoluted idea for a system that has been in place in countless mmo's, but I guess bioware knows what they are doing... I mean the auction house is proof of that right.

Edited February 7, 2012 by EsteManhandler

[CorwinCorey]

While I like the idea of being able to get crits on oranges... I find that it won't help in a lot of cases, for reasons already mentioned... the coolest looks are all from commendation purchases, or flashpoints/ops.

 

So many of the orange items are simply not craftable. My sorc uses the Supreme Inquisitor set. I am definately looking forward to ripping put mods from other things to make this even better... but the two items I can't give up are the pants and chest, because lets face it... skirts are bad. heh.

 

with them being such a rare drop, would I risk trying to re a set to get the recipie? yes.... since I have a set already. Means getting the augment slots will take ages, and lots of cash... because the re will fail. a lot. (I know my luck)

 

That said... they haven't said that the set bonus moves with the mods for the removable base mods. I think it's likely they won't... because it would offset exactly the problem you are discussing. Yes, I can have augments on things... but no set bonuses.

 

thinking it's a step in the right direction, anyhow. I don't expect perfection out of the gate... nor do I expect each and every change to be perfect as it goes live... some things will take some trial and error experimentation... the fact that changes ARE being made is GOOD.

 

Start worrying when they stop changing things.

[Kotogami]

I have point to question on the other side of the majority of this thread. First let me state this fact, I am an armstech on my main personally, and there will probably be some bias in my own benefit in this issue. I'm looking at this from the weapon perspective of this, not the armor - so lets work with this some.

 

From what I noticed during my leveling Armstech and Reverse Engineering thing: It appears that you cannot learn everything from dismantling random drops you find. In fact, the only schematics I've learned through reverse engineering are those that I have made myself. This is probably my own luck, but I haven't learned Orange schematics until reaching that 400 mark.

 

Now for me to make one of those orange weapons: I have get my hands on multiple Biometric Crystal Alloys. Which is somewhat annoying to do to make said orange weapons (excluding the reverse engineering constantly to try to learn variants and then try to crit it as is).

 

Now lets look at weapons that we CAN'T modify. Imperial Agents and Smugglers know these too well: Vibroknives and Scatterguns mostly, Techblades and Techstaves to a lesser extent. We can't modify these and have to look at them base value. if we have augment slots on them, it gives us some sort of customization on those weapons. Why worry about crafting these without the chance to have a critical creation on these and make that Augment mod slot open.

 

This is just my opinion and I wanted to give a second half to the debate along with my reasoning. While the crittable gear vs endgame rewards is a good question, my debate with you is going to be mostly on the vibroknives and scatterguns. If you remove the ability to crit these, why should I bother crafting them as an armstech?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Kotogami

[Destoroyah]

Wouldn't the simple solution be to just add augmentation kits that the crafters can make that anyone can use on any piece of gear to add a augment slot. That way noone can claim a orange piece of gear is superior to a ops item both with the same mods. Cause your have to raid to get that piece anyway so why shouldn't they be allowed to transfer the mods to a orange they like the look of better.

[Cloviscat]

You know, you give someone a little too much rope... and you cross your fingers they'll hang themselves... Oh well

[Bambaam]

i have an idea...let's give everybody the option to have whatever gear they want with whatever stats they want just after choosing their advanced class. also, when creating a character, allow uploading pictures so your toon can look exactly how you want. that way everybody can have what they want with no excuse. this can't go wrong.

[Bambaam]

the augment slot is a crit...it's not guaranteed. why should you want something to make an augment slot on everything you can get? because you want everything as easy as possible. if you could simply add an augment slot to raid gear, and raid gear is better, nobody would craft it. then you would complain that the crafting is useless in the game and they need to fix that. i mean seriously, why not just make all mods have xx amount of points available and let you decide what stats it boosts?

[goulet]

pve gear vs pve gear+augment which are you gonna choose? thats basically the argument. What is the largest increase on max level epic augments? 30 (don't remember). Thats 10 augment slots to make use of (helm,chest,gloves,pants,boots,bracers for armor, earpiece, implantsx2, weapon). 11 if its a marauder. so thats +300 to a stat of your choosing, of course you're going to choose it. Whatever cap you're trying to reach you dont have to worry about it.

 

now pragmatically, the rate at which you acquire these pieces depends both on crafting crit rates, and getting the pve to pull the mods so theres a time synch involved which isn't a bad thing. It also would allow for people to progress a little faster towards more end game content (craft gear+daily mods+augment) can compete with pve hm/ops gear.

 

its good/bad/ugly.

 

side notes: how long until an operative rolls into pvp with marauder armor on, warriors dressed as bh's and vice versa with decked out pve gear?

[Soluss]

While I like the idea of being able to get crits on oranges... I find that it won't help in a lot of cases, for reasons already mentioned... the coolest looks are all from commendation purchases, or flashpoints/ops.

 

So many of the orange items are simply not craftable. My sorc uses the Supreme Inquisitor set. I am definately looking forward to ripping put mods from other things to make this even better... but the two items I can't give up are the pants and chest, because lets face it... skirts are bad. heh.

 

with them being such a rare drop, would I risk trying to re a set to get the recipie? yes.... since I have a set already. Means getting the augment slots will take ages, and lots of cash... because the re will fail. a lot. (I know my luck)

 

That said... they haven't said that the set bonus moves with the mods for the removable base mods. I think it's likely they won't... because it would offset exactly the problem you are discussing. Yes, I can have augments on things... but no set bonuses.

 

thinking it's a step in the right direction, anyhow. I don't expect perfection out of the gate... nor do I expect each and every change to be perfect as it goes live... some things will take some trial and error experimentation... the fact that changes ARE being made is GOOD.

 

Start worrying when they stop changing things.

 

Thats what they mean by extractable base mods. It means the set bonuses will move. They have already said this.

[Bambaam]

pve gear vs pve gear+augment which are you gonna choose? thats basically the argument. What is the largest increase on max level epic augments? 30 (don't remember). Thats 10 augment slots to make use of (helm,chest,gloves,pants,boots,bracers for armor, earpiece, implantsx2, weapon). 11 if its a marauder. so thats +300 to a stat of your choosing, of course you're going to choose it. Whatever cap you're trying to reach you dont have to worry about it.

 

now pragmatically, the rate at which you acquire these pieces depends both on crafting crit rates, and getting the pve to pull the mods so theres a time synch involved which isn't a bad thing. It also would allow for people to progress a little faster towards more end game content (craft gear+daily mods+augment) can compete with pve hm/ops gear.

 

its good/bad/ugly.

 

side notes: how long until an operative rolls into pvp with marauder armor on, warriors dressed as bh's and vice versa with decked out pve gear?

 

your post makes sense, and i get the argument...i dont want ppl to think im just trolling. im just saying a few of these posts sound like ppl just whining it takes too long to get stuff. im sorry but i like the idea that it's not just handed out. if you have to work to get something people say it's too hard...if people are handed stuff they say it's too easy. what ever happened to just enjoying a game. if someone has better gear than you it's probably because they spent the time to get it. if you are a casual gamer you shouldnt have the same gear a hardcore player should have.

 

with that said and on a side note i do feel that gear should not make or break a player. skill should be the main deciding factor on how good someone is. then level, then gear

[Antidentite]

tldr, but they already said that they are expanding augments to other gear, this argument is moot.

[Caille]

Umm what? No, I don't think so. Set bonus is part of the gear, not part of the mods.

 

 

 

Actually you are quite wrong here Karkais. Georg and other Devs (See Emmanuel Lusinchi's post about coming changes to Orange gear) have stated in no uncertain terms, that once they change to base mods goes live, set bonuses WILL transfer with base mods.

 

Their intent, according to Dev posts, is for all end game set bonuses to be transferable to customizable gear. And that the set bonuses will travel with the base mods, they have also said to prevent farming, some base mods will only go into some types of pieces after the change. I.E. Your set chest's base mod, will only go into another chest, and will transfer the set bonuses to the new chest.

 

 

 

Alexis

*smiles*

[Kotogami]

pve gear vs pve gear+augment which are you gonna choose? thats basically the argument. What is the largest increase on max level epic augments? 30 (don't remember). Thats 10 augment slots to make use of (helm,chest,gloves,pants,boots,bracers for armor, earpiece, implantsx2, weapon). 11 if its a marauder. so thats +300 to a stat of your choosing, of course you're going to choose it. Whatever cap you're trying to reach you dont have to worry about it.

 

now pragmatically, the rate at which you acquire these pieces depends both on crafting crit rates, and getting the pve to pull the mods so theres a time synch involved which isn't a bad thing. It also would allow for people to progress a little faster towards more end game content (craft gear+daily mods+augment) can compete with pve hm/ops gear.

 

its good/bad/ugly.

 

side notes: how long until an operative rolls into pvp with marauder armor on, warriors dressed as bh's and vice versa with decked out pve gear?

 

It's 11 for all classes: for IA/Scoundrel: Vibroknives/Scatterguns can be crit, you can crit shield generators, power generators, Focus items. So all advanced classes can have 11 Augmentation slots, you are right on the +30 per, so you're looking at a total stat increase with all crit gear of +330 at level 50 for anyone willing to spend the time/money getting all 11 equipment slots crit and get the augments.

[nezroy]

Biowares attempts at being different from the 'wow clone' mmo's is actually setting them back. I think someone should tell them of the idiom don't fix what isn't broken, meaning just put in a G O D D A M N E D wardrobe instead of create some convoluted idea for a system that has been in place in countless mmo's, but I guess bioware knows what they are doing... I mean the auction house is proof of that right.

 

The orange moddable gear is a great thematic system that handles the functions of both an appearance tab and customizable gear stats at the same time. There is no reason for BW to abandon it, especially when calling for an appearance tab only accomplishes HALF of the customization people want to see; you still need a system in place for stat customization as well. The orange moddable system accomplishes BOTH just fine (or it will, once the tier gear mod changes are in place).

 

Don't get confused in thinking that an appearance tab is the "MMO standard feature" that we all want. The "MMO standard feature" that we all want is the ability to customize the appearance of our BIS end-game gear to a sufficient degree that we don't all feel like clones. There are multiple ways to accomplish this, and an appearance tab is only one way. Dyes are another possible approach. The orange moddable gear is yet another.

 

Yes, BW COULD have just copied the solution to this as-is from other games, but I personally like the implications of the moddable gear idea as a unique part of this game and am glad to see them try a new idea for this in general. For one thing it has a LOT of great potential for crafters long term: mods, RE of existing stuff for more orange patterns, rare orange patterns that take an epic amount of work to acquire but that retain life-time value for a crafter because they will ALWAYS be relevant for players, etc. I also like that it gives the graphic designers some control over the light/medium/heavy/class silhouettes while still providing tons of customization options (of course, not everyone is on board with that).

 

Now if only BW would get their heads out of wherever they've stuck them and illustrate that they have a basic understanding of the design principles behind the feature set moddable gear must provide to players, rather than constantly suggesting changes that would undermine their own system.

Edited February 8, 2012 by nezroy