Critable orange gear undermines intent of removable epic base mods

[Zantul]

I like that the base mods from epic gear is going to be removable. It will allow people to customize the appearance of their raiding and PvP gear by pulling out the mods and putting them in their preferred set of custom gear.

 

However, allowing orange craftable gear to crit (adding an augment slot) will undermine this to some extent. Reason being, if people can choose between an orange piece of gear they like the look of and a crafted one with an augment slot they don't particularly like many will choose the latter simply for the extra stats gained from the augment slot.

 

If you're going to allow orange gear to crit but you also want people to be able to freely choose between sets of orange gear something else needs to change or be added. Perhaps adding a craftable BoE item (to Cybertech maybe) that would add an augment slot to a piece of gear. If not, I strongly believe many people are going to limit themselves to using crafted orange gear because of the availability of the augment slot. That's great for crafters, sure. But if the idea is for people to use whatever set of gear they like the two are working against eachother.

 

Yes this is a GREAT idea when everyone hits battle master we will all look the SAME!

[moefling]

The best thing BW can do is remove completely Augments. These are plain stupid and not needed in this game. Just remove them and put another cool item to compensate crafters doing it.

 

Issues about gear are at last (if we believe these patch changes) about to dissapear, and puttting augments on Orange gear is going to bring headaches again.

 

I still don't undestarnd how we are still having such as issues right now, when the solution is fairly simple:

 

 

- Make ALL armor sets ingame have an Orange version (right now half of the sets are not orange).

 

- Make all raid/PvP sets Modable (so we can extract their mods).

 

- Make orange gear schematics more common on loot or missions.

 

- When these 3 things are done, don't touch them again.

 

 

 

BTW, Expertise in this game is already too high and too imbalancing, and too frustrating for people who doesn't play 6-7 hours a day. Adding augments to the mix will just kill PvP for non hardcore players.

Edited February 9, 2012 by moefling

[Eivea]

So if I understand this correctly wearing an augmented orange item with transferred mods will be better than wearing the drop itself because of the augment. That means you will still be forced to wear something specific only now it costs you 60k to remove the mods + the craftable orange item cost + the augment cost.

 

Crit gear > tier gear = non crit orange gear

 

And that's a good idea why exactly?

[Stuffedduck]

I am looking forward to tier gear mods being extractable and usable in orange gear, especially as I don't like the look of my JK armour.

 

However, allowing only crafted orange gear to have an augment slot (via crits) is just forcing me (unless I don't care about min/max at all) to wear the ones available ... and most likely look like every other JK around here.

 

The best solution (imo only ofc) would be to allow augment mods (like mentioned before: wow belt buckle as an example) to be added to your gear, however, not necessarily for every piece of gear you wear. Maybe 2 per crafting skill (belt & bracer via synt/armour, main & off hand via armstech/artifice etc), whereas cybertech would get the short end with only 1 via the earpiece, but might could get a headset thingy to be even.

And these mods/enhancements should be the only way to get augment slots onto your gear, beside the crew skill specific crits you can get now already, whereas the Rakata gear should be tied to active crew skills, just like biochem reusable items (no chain crafting of crit purples and skill switching, if you want to use your crafted relics - stick with artifice).

 

Second best solution would be to simply add a wardrobe feature for the individual look you want.

[Graxul]

Why allow augments on every moddable piece of armor thats craftable? That would make the synthweaving and armormech classes overpowered to a degree. Limit it to pieces that don't have a huge change in appearance like wrists and belt. There is a huge demand for moddable wrists and belts as is allowing armormech and synthweavers to make them with augment slots and only allowing those pieces to have augment slots on craftable modable armor would be killing two birds with one stone.

 

They have a very minimal impact to the look of your character and wouldn't effect the actual appearance of your look you achieve with helmet,chest,leggings boots and gloves that you can generally get from flashpoints and commendations. Modable wrist and belt slots are pretty rare as a drop from loot,commendations, heroic rewards or flashpoint rewards. And what is available is tied to a particular class. Opening up the market to only certain slots would make more sense and would be more achievable while maintaining the diversity of looks everyone desires. Granted this would cut down on the amount of a bonus one could achieve but I think it would be worth it.

 

Cybertechs have earpieces that can have augments maybe pick a couple slots for modable droid gear, biotechs have implants. Having the ability to make craftable tier pieces from the main trainer, pvp vendor, pve vendors or make them loot drops would be enough for them I think. The only ones I feel that would be left out are the armstech and to a lesser degree artifice. Not being able to preview the look of a weapon effects the armstech the most. Armstech could use a boost though I've mostly only needed barrels and companion weapons from them.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Graxul

[Pappus]

Or they could have just done an Appearance Tab.... problem solved:X

 

Appearance tabs will kill a good chunk of the system that is going on here. They just need to get a way to make augments more relevant without neglecting craft crits.

 

Maybe they will need to kill crit crafts for it. Maybe not.

[Kotogami]

Appearance tabs will kill a good chunk of the system that is going on here. They just need to get a way to make augments more relevant without neglecting craft crits.

 

Maybe they will need to kill crit crafts for it. Maybe not.

 

While this idea is sound, it would leave the previously crit on items out on the market without complaining, and if anyone has one of those without it being bound? You're looking at the market rushing towards those few people in almost record times. And what about all those augments already out on the world? If we were to remove critting on crafting, what would those be good for?

 

Removing the ability to crit a craft skill isn't going to be the solution this far in, if it was back in beta, maybe pr-erelease, that may have been a chance to look at. There are too many things out there with augments floating around now and augment-able gear where removing it will either punish those who bought/crafted or drive the majority of the economy into the select people who spent over a month slicing up a storm for augments.

[Aram_Darksun]

i dont think augments are going to make up for the set bonuses on raid/pvp sets anyway

 

that issue aside i dont know why they dont just make it so that crafters can reverse engineer ALL existing armor in the game with a chance to learn its recipe. if you had a piece you wanted the look of a crafter should be able to "remake" that look with an augment slot for you

 

this should be an armormech perk, as it is, there is currently no reason to keep armormech aside from gearing out alts and even than, not all of them

 

crafting in this game is so broken it would take me pages to list the current problems

 

I really like that idea, a nice armourmech perk. That would help counteract the usual mmo malady of "I'm a master crafter but the best stuff I can make is scrub rags compared to raid gear." However, you can not invalidate the achievement of raid gear by allowing a crafter to proliferate it at will. If crafting any raid gear required a raid drop mechanically equivalent to getting the original raid item then it has possibility.

[Aram_Darksun]

Appearance tabs will kill a good chunk of the system that is going on here. They just need to get a way to make augments more relevant without neglecting craft crits.

 

Maybe they will need to kill crit crafts for it. Maybe not.

 

Appearance slots would only kill the current system because they do everything it does and more. It is simpler, it is more powerful, it's just plain better.

 

As a side thought I love the crafting crit system. Instead of just crafting a bunch of identical gear, I always look forward to going through and seeing if I was lucky enough to get a better version. It also adds another level of customization.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Aram_Darksun

[Black_Night]

I think it should be like this:

 

Ops normal mode, get you the Columi tier gear + recipes for tier Columi gear which can crit.

Ops HM, get you Rakata gear + recipes for Rakata gear which can crit.

Ops Nightmare mode get you Rakata gear with augment slots plus same recipes for Rakata gear which can crit.

 

The same should apply for Hardmode FPs, where you should also get one recipe per boss + the usual gear token.

 

Problem solved. Everyone can get everything and yet crafting is still useful.

 

Of course this could give Synthawavers an unaffair advantage, so we could have 4 pieces of end-game gear that can be crafted by each profession.

 

for instance: Artifice could have : lightsabers , relics and offhands

Synthawaveing: handwraps, belt, feet and gloves

Biochem: implant, earpiece, stim.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Black_Night

[Kotogami]

for instance: Artifice could have : lightsabers , relics and offhands

Synthawaveing: handwraps, belt, feet and gloves

Biochem: implant, earpiece, stim.

 

 

You forgot Armormech, Armstech, and Cybertech

 

Armormech kinda fits in with Synthweaving...but the other two....

Edited February 9, 2012 by Kotogami

[nezroy]

Appearance slots would only kill the current system because they do everything it does and more. It is simpler, it is more powerful, it's just plain better.

 

No, it doesn't. First, there is no single "appearance tab" system. Many games have different versions of this, all with their own nuances, details, and restrictions. These are all things that swtor would still have to figure out for itself as well. Which is exactly the growing pains the current mod system is going through right now.

 

Second, an appearance tab doesn't provide stat customization AT ALL. The mod system can/should easily support that with nothing but a bit of extra itemization (more mods with different stat balances but equal budgets). So you either stick with the mod system and just tweak it, or you throw it out, replace it with an appearance tab, and then STILL need to come up with a stat customization system on top of that.

 

Third, an appearance tab certainly gives lots of flexibility and options, but that's not necessarily what the game designers want to allow, and I'm OK with that. What we need as a feature is the freedom to not look like clones of one another. That doesn't necessarily mean that we need the freedom to look any way we please.

 

I like that the current mod system preserves the light/medium/heavy silhouettes, and even some class silhouettes, because you either cannot or don't want to (for armor value reasons) wear gear outside of your armor range. Could you replicate this with an appearance tab? Sure, but then it's yet another set of rules and restrictions for the new appearance tab to figure out (which is just the first point all over again).

 

Fourth and finally, the mod system plays really well to potential complexity and content for crafters. Rare mods, rare orange patterns based on grinds or, better, epic quests, and RE'ing existing stuff for orange patterns all work very nicely as simple future additions to give crafting some more content and love. Yes, all this stuff can be done in ways that work with an appearance tab too, but again, that means change from the ground up rather than just a few tweaks to a system that is nearly 100% functional already.

[Iceman_sith]

I brought this up like a month ago. Does anyone know anything yet?

[harpuax]

Whatever modable gear has augment slots will be what everyone uses. IF they had something that could add augments to existing gear, everyone would use them. Either way everyones gear will have augment slots in the end. So what is the the uniqueness of augments in either solution?

[Matte_Black]

I wouldn't get to worked up over it, I suspect the gear will be available to be crafted in later releases and higher tiers/levels are introduced. In the meantime, is it so wrong that players who master crafting and earn the high-end gear to pull the mods from should be able to manage an edge over over those who only earn the high-end gear.

[AJediKnight]

Critable gear already makes non-crit gear irrelevant in most cases.

 

That crit mechanic in crafting was stupid in Aion, it's still stupid here.

 

Basically this.

 

If the intent of the orange gear is to give us the ability to choose our appearance, then implement a friggin' appearance tab. That's all that needs to be done. Instead, Bioware tries again and again to reinvent the wheel, usually with results that are square in shape, and utterly nonfuctioning.

 

Frankly, I'd like to see whoever came up with latest idea out on the streets. I want them panhandling, drinking from open sewers, and eating garbage. In other words: fire whoever is coming up with these braindead ideas. Fire them now.

Edited February 28, 2012 by AJediKnight

[Knockerz]

They should just made crit give an extra pair of of item your making. Kinda like alchemy in wow when crafting epic gems. It's a nice perk, but not game breaking.

[Mephane]

Whatever modable gear has augment slots will be what everyone uses. IF they had something that could add augments to existing gear, everyone would use them. Either way everyones gear will have augment slots in the end. So what is the the uniqueness of augments in either solution?

 

I suppose the idea is that most common folks will just wear non-critted orange or purple stuff from all various sources, and only a few min-maxer will be able to put down 1million+ for a single critted orange item, which I fully expect to be the common price as soon as enough people have found out these are the absolutely only way to get BiS.

[Ardah]

Basically this.

 

If the intent of the orange gear is to give us the ability to choose our appearance, then implement a friggin' appearance tab. That's all that needs to be done. Instead, Bioware tries again and again to reinvent the wheel, usually with results that are square in shape, and utterly nonfuctioning.

 

Frankly, I'd like to see whoever came up with latest idea out on the streets. I want them panhandling, drinking from open sewers, and eating garbage. In other words: fire whoever is coming up with these braindead ideas. Fire them now.

 

Well we will not be able to chose our appearance, as we need to get hold of gear with an augment slot. That said, we are locked to crafted gear. All orange drop gear, without augment slot, will not be desirable.

[-Azimov-]

However, allowing orange craftable gear to crit (adding an augment slot) will undermine this to some extent. Reason being, if people can choose between an orange piece of gear they like the look of and a crafted one with an augment slot they don't particularly like many will choose the latter simply for the extra stats gained from the augment slot.

I came to the exact same realisation myself after hearing they were adding critable customs.

As a Gunslinger I have been collecting custom Armour and Blasters as I progress through the game.

I knew these were good to 50 if I updated them, though there was a grade of progression past which I wouldn't be able to pick my own look.

This didn't bother me firstly because I was yet to reach that level, and secondly BW had said they were going to change it to make them viable.

If this change goes in as it sounds though, then it will make all my collected gear junk compared to a freshly crit crafted orange.

There are many looks that aren't available via crafting, like my current Viper set which are all drop pieces.

Also if they are adding critable oranges for the armourers, then I presume they are doing the same for weapons which already need BoP materials to make and have even fewer looks available.

Still I live in hope that maybe BioWare hasn't explained how this new system will work very well yet, or maybe they do just like giving with one hand whilst taking away with the other.

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

I honestly have no idea what the OP is trying to say. Someone want to translate in to proper English?

[terminova]

Good job BW lets nerf one tradeskill into oblivion while making another responsible for crafting all of our gear for an augment slot. Do yall even think about nerfs / buffs before you implement them because as of now they seem willy nilly as long as you stay silent on any nerfs you implement. Being the silent type is no longer an acceptable response.

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Save your game BW dont be dumb.

 

Wasn't Biochem causing issues in PvP?

[terminova]

I honestly have no idea what the OP is trying to say. Someone want to translate in to proper English?

 

The OP is complaining that since craftable moddable gear (the gear with mod slots) can crit and have an augment slot as well that everyone will look the same and no one playing the game will use anything but that gear making any other gear useless, basically.

[genesiser]

Even if they added augment slotted gear from a vendor that you can buy for 10 credits each I'd still have a problem with it.

 

I'm not agitated that I'll have to "put extra work" into getting best in slot gear (I've already farmed up a few stacks of mats so when 1.2 comes out I can churn out crit crafted gear and make a lot of dough). The problem I have is that by having sets of customizable gear with a higher threshold of stats, they basically made all flash point, operation, pvp, planet commendation, and planet heroic quest orange gear obsolete because they have lower stat thresholds. When I say obsolete, I mean that you will never see people wearing it or even have a reason to wear it because the threshold of stats will be lower than other customizable gear.

 

Either make augments like enchanting from other mmos where they can go on all pieces of gear, or make it so crafters can make items that add augment slots that way ALL customizable gear will have the same potential that way we won't be forced to wear certain pieces of gear.

Edited February 28, 2012 by genesiser

[Matte_Black]

It seems to me that as long as the purple gear the high-end mods are being pulled from are available as crittable orange gear that looks the same, this whole thing is a non-issue. Even if they are not, we are going from one appearance for best-in-slot gear to all the appearances for that class/armor type minus one as the improved BIS. Definitely an upgrade unless you think BIS should come easy.