Never have I tried so hard to like a game

[wubbster]

i too tried to really enjoy this game. i just couldn't. i thought i could escape WOW's one dimensional leveling system in SWTOR but it was still there and sadly WOW did it better. I got stuck on level 38 and haven't played in 2 weeks, cancelled my sub last week. shrug maybe i will resubscribe later but so far its pretty boring to be playing something so outdated MMO wise.

[adamqd]

agree OP. I championed this game for 4 years, yet now I have it... I can honestly say I have not had any fun or interesting moments since Early access, wave one. I've played it to level 30 on about 4 toons, but its like I'm suddenly some kind of soulless automaton, I get no joy from any aspect of it. Now I'm a massive Star Wars geek, I have all the comics, games, books, encyclopedias, collectibles, but I have had a neutral expression on my face all the way through, this is the most boring repetitive incomplete game I've ever played, Its a shame KotOR had to end like this. There should of been a KotOR III, and this game should of been a mass effect MMO or something. Edited February 4, 2012 by adamqd

[Traumahawk]

To be honest the game is designed for short stretches of 2 to 3 hours and hitting cap in a month or 2 not a week.

 

Not to be rude or anything, but... where was this ever mentioned in developer blogs, in the manual, on the website or on the packaging? Also, if that was truly the model that the game was designed around, then the development team must be crafty time travelers--because it goes against the established industry marketing and retention schemes...that work.

 

"Your vehicle was never meant to make long distance trips over 50mph on the open road...that's why it overheated and cracked the engine block on your trip to Florida."

 

All cars AT LEAST have a minimum standard of function and useability. So should MMORPGs.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Traumahawk

[Wythias]

I've paraphrased what stuck out to me in your posts, it reads like you got from 1 to 41 in a week (which means you've been playing around 10 hours or more a day), grinding levels with PvP and space battles and failing to get groups for flashpoints and heroics?

 

To be honest the game is designed for short stretches of 2 to 3 hours and hitting cap in a month or 2 not a week. Space battles are a side game and not designed for leveling, your main story line is the main leveling method and although PvP does give XP grinding PvP for levels will be mind numbing.

 

I'm not sure what else to suggest, it's a shame you haven't got the group for the heroics and flashpoints as they are fun for 1 run each (certainly they become boring if you intend to constantly repeat them).

 

Does that about sum up your experience?

 

My first character got 1-41 in 6 days yeah, and it was the week I had off so I am not sure how much I played. I didn't do any group quests, flash points, or space battles on my first character at all because I just wanted to level traditionally, and have a blast. Unfortunately I didn't.

 

My second character that I just started about 3 days ago is 30 now leveling through mostly PvP, and Space Battles for all the filler I want to buffer out having to deal with super difficult questing. However I can't ever get a flash point group, or group quest group even after 10 minutes of asking in general for it.

 

Also you too me are the second person to actually be helpful, and for that I thank you. What I am thinking now is just to slow down, and enjoy the experience... but I just feel like I am going to fall into the habit of FAST FAST FAST FORCE PLAY FORCE PLAY HAVE TO PLAY HAVE TO PLAY GOTTA LEVEL AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mindset I have every time I first start an MMO, it usually dies off after I hit level cap though. However like I said I have been on a month break after my marauder hit 41, so I didn't play enough to get to cap.

[Lazzer]

So, I still can't figure the industry out. It seems like either the game developers aren't catching on to the fact that players want challenge again (with new packaging and contents of course) or it's us who have it all wrong, and we really are the vocal minority. To which I say: ain't no big name game publisher gonna to dump loads of cash into a niche market.

 

It's difficult for me to see what people want, do you want the game to be difficult and go back to the old EQ style of playing for over a year before you hit cap (by which time they have another expansion and tons of content) meaning some people never reach cap before they increase it?

 

Or do you want to get to cap in a week thus having very easy content and have the entire game focused on level 50 ignoring the rest of the game? Then you end up with what EQ did in the beginning and created servers where everyone could start at level 50.

[SoulstitchMMO]

SWTOR = Kotor 3 leveling, and WOW End Game... How did you not see this happening?

 

Also It gets harder to level as you go, because all the side quests mostly suck. The planet arcs mostly suck. The best part of SWTOR is the personal quest, and that becomes less and less of your leveling as you go.

 

This was all stated as such by Daniel Erickson during the many interviews that he did, that by end game your personal story only accounts for something like 10% of your leveling.

[Traumahawk]

My first character got 1-41 in 6 days yeah, and it was the week I had off so I am not sure how much I played. I didn't do any group quests, flash points, or space battles on my first character at all because I just wanted to level traditionally, and have a blast. Unfortunately I didn't.

 

My second character that I just started about 3 days ago is 30 now leveling through mostly PvP, and Space Battles for all the filler I want to buffer out having to deal with super difficult questing. However I can't ever get a flash point group, or group quest group even after 10 minutes of asking in general for it.

 

Also you too me are the second person to actually be helpful, and for that I thank you. What I am thinking now is just to slow down, and enjoy the experience... but I just feel like I am going to fall into the habit of FAST FAST FAST FORCE PLAY FORCE PLAY HAVE TO PLAY HAVE TO PLAY GOTTA LEVEL AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mindset I have every time I first start an MMO, it usually dies off after I hit level cap though. However like I said I have been on a month break after my marauder hit 41, so I didn't play enough to get to cap.

 

 

It is your right to level at whatever pace you choose so long as it doesn't involve exploits, hacks or breaking the game mechanics to get there. The arguments from players that we should just take it easy, is like telling me how I should eat a New York style pizza. I like to fold in in half and take big bites, but if there is sawdust and rat droppings in it, I have every right to complain. This is a strawman argument being used against players that prefer to level more rapidly than they do.

[Senatsu]

i too tried to really enjoy this game. i just couldn't. i thought i could escape WOW's one dimensional leveling system in SWTOR but it was still there and sadly WOW did it better. I got stuck on level 38 and haven't played in 2 weeks, cancelled my sub last week. shrug maybe i will resubscribe later but so far its pretty boring to be playing something so outdated MMO wise.

 

WoW's leveling was better? Standing still in a major city bank for 70 levels spamming LFD queues was better? Dude, I feel so sorry for you.

[ArmchairMagpie]

I am curious, the only times I ever couldn't get a group together were at night times but between noon and late evening I always got a group even though on places like Tatooine it seemed a bit difficult sometimes (asking for over an hour).

 

But I noticed something, if you are a tank or healing class soloing these 2-man heroics should be a cakewalk, even as DPS class they are - if you are picky and do hit-n-run - soloable. The only harder thing as DPS class are definitely all 4-man heroics.

 

I also noticed something else: I do notice alot groups running around 2/3/4 players questing together throughout the entire zone and beyond. I'd find them with Social IV/V titles eventually. Even then I found alot players never ask in chat for a group but they would contact you if you are asking, even better some people are unfamiliar with grouping mechanics and do not understand the meaning of LFG/LFM. They would like to group but don't know how, if they flag themselves LFG then it's a shy version of a middleground, they know how to group but are afraid to ask because they are afraid to lead a group.

 

Heck I have done all heroics after people were desperately asking for groups we 2-3 manned 4 mans because seemingly nobody was up but then at end of run someone was suddenly up for it, turns out he has saved all quests until he had only heroics left to do. He was unaware of the option of sharing quests and also unaware that he take the option to group when it's available to him not when he feels like to.

 

In general: It's not a lack of people but more like a lack of people who are visibly up for grouping or willing to group when others are looking for groups as well. This game does little for bringing people together or explaining things, it seems it's assumed that everyone playing this game must have played a MMO before. This is what WoW does better these days.

[Lazzer]

Not to be rude or anything, but... where was this ever mentioned in developer blogs, in the manual, on the website or on the packaging? Also, if that was truly the model that the game was designed around, then the development team must be crafty time travelers--because it goes against the established industry marketing and retention schemes...that work.

 

"Your vehicle was never meant to make long distance trips over 50mph on the open road...that's why it overheated and cracked the engine block on your trip to Florida."

 

All cars AT LEAST have a minimum standard of function and useability. So should MMORPGs.

 

It wasn't, speaking from what I have experienced from the game itself. It's my impression of it that it is designed for casual play.

 

There were multiple threads long before the game was released talking about around 200 hours of play to get to cap (which at 10 hours a day is only 2 and half weeks of play). This is an over estimate for experienced players.

 

I don't take your comment as rude I am just observing and trying to help.

[Wythias]

WoW's leveling was better? Standing still in a major city bank for 70 levels spamming LFD queues was better? Dude, I feel so sorry for you.

 

? I never ever ever used LFD when leveling. I always quested, and to me it was extremely fun. I never understood how people could level through LFD it's so slow, and I hate relying on other people while leveling. By the time I quit playing I was getting 85s in a week, and to me it was like an Arcade game if you get what I mean, it was fun for me to do, but lacked any display of the story truly. Like how Contra, or Double Dragon was fun, WoW was fun to me in terms of leveling. However after I got tired of leveling the 20th alt, and was so bored of the current, and past couple patches of end game, I gave up on it.

[Traumahawk]

It's difficult for me to see what people want, do you want the game to be difficult and go back to the old EQ style of playing for over a year before you hit cap (by which time they have another expansion and tons of content) meaning some people never reach cap before they increase it?

 

Or do you want to get to cap in a week thus having very easy content and have the entire game focused on level 50 ignoring the rest of the game? Then you end up with what EQ did in the beginning and created servers where everyone could start at level 50.

 

No. And you are right, it's hard to define what would work for the most people. When I mean difficulty, I'm speaking to one thing only:

 

I want a reward system that.. well... rewards me with things that are commensurate to the amount of relative skill and/or time I have put into gaining it. In other words, WoW failed with the "Welfare epics" ideology, and other games fail when they try to craft a game that won't hurt the loser's feelings. Not all players are created equal, and it's a legitimate and natural human need to be rewarded with things that others must work harder to get. Yeah that's right--more power to the millionaires...with enough hard work I could be there too!

 

How we get there, is another story. I didn't experience the old-school mob grindfest in Vanilla wow, but I sure as hell remember being nearly euphoric after winning my first epic in MC. It's the payoff and reward system that needs to be dealt with first. Reward explorers, reward raiders, reward people that like to solo hard modes, reward crafters, reward socialites, etc. etc. The whole game should be one giant Skinner box, painted up to be an MMO. It's base human needs and wants.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Traumahawk

[FerrusPA]

WoW's leveling was better? Standing still in a major city bank for 70 levels spamming LFD queues was better? Dude, I feel so sorry for you.

 

I, for one, enjoyed the new lowbie zones from Cataclysm and I believe revamping the old world was a brilliant move by Blizzard.

[Wythias]

 

Reward explorers, reward raiders, reward people that like to solo hard modes, reward crafters, reward socialites, etc. etc. The whole game should be one giant Skinner box, painted up to be an MMO. It's base human needs and wants.

 

This I can completely get behind.

[JeremyDale]

? I never ever ever used LFD when leveling. I always quested, and to me it was extremely fun. I never understood how people could level through LFD it's so slow, and I hate relying on other people while leveling. By the time I quit playing I was getting 85s in a week, and to me it was like an Arcade game if you get what I mean, it was fun for me to do, but lacked any display of the story truly. Like how Contra, or Double Dragon was fun, WoW was fun to me in terms of leveling. However after I got tired of leveling the 20th alt, and was so bored of the current, and past couple patches of end game, I gave up on it.

 

I really will NEVER understand how anyone could enjoy questing on that WoW game. It is one of the great mysteries of the universe I'll never be able to figure out.

 

It lierally causes me to question my humanity sometimes how i fail to relate with this WoW phenomom. I remember sitting down to play that game after years of hearing how incredibly awesome and popular it was. About 30 minutes in I was wondering what went wrong with the world.

[Greywinter]

In WoW the content has been reused over and over again since TBC, the only difference is the boss name, boss look and the arena you fight him on.

Ever since TBC WoW has gotten more and more terrible, I'll give you 2 years of end-game content that was actually good (Vanilla was so unbalanced and buggy it felt like Blizzard wasn't even working for 99% of the time). WotLK was a joke; Ulduar was the only good thing to come out of that expansion and Blizzard did a good job of introducing heroic mode fights, but ofc they nerfed that (now you just press a button GG Blizz). They f'ed up big time with LFD, tried to redeem themselves with Cataclysm, but failed horribly after the 2 beginning raids (nerfz time!). Whoever came up with LFR and LFD needs to be shot, they aren't all that's wrong with WoW, but good god, removing those features would do a ton towards dragging it from the bottom of the barrel.

 

You compare a 7 year old game that got famous just because it was so easy, to a 1 and a half month old game that drew most people in because of it's RPG elements. If you really believe that WoW was hard, then it was you who was the problem in FPs and WZs.

 

I played WoW for almost 7 years, until the Fall of Lich King...... cataclysm raids killed the game for me, but I still disagree with what you said. Content in WoW is rarely reused in terms of raid boss mechanics and with LFD and LFR Blizz just made the easy version of end game content accessible to casual gamers, but still a casual gamer won't be able to get their hands on the ultimate (heroic) gear, mounts or achieves..... that part of the game is only accomplished by high-end raiders. Casual gamers are still paying customers and by every right they should have access to end-game and blizzard sorted out this problem with LFD and LFR tools.

 

Howerver, heroic raids are another matter, they are quite hard for a casual gamer to accomplish. If you are comparing your game with LFR raiders then I am sorry to say you were never a high end raider to begin with, so what you are saying is completely invalid in your scenario.

 

Where as SWTOR is a new game, it has a lot of potential however, combat mechanics need a fair bit of polishing and it should happen soon too. WoW beats SWTOR when it comes to combat mechanics, rest can be furnished in the years to come.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Greywinter

[Uruare]

If you've played WoW a lot, you can come into SWTOR and, with mere formalities of refamiliarization and remembering how things played back in 2005, snowplow your way to 50 with the exact same patterns of behaviour.

 

Plus, they made some pretty neat stories to chase in the leveling process. The question "Why would I not want to see the rest of this story sooner?" lends its validity to the rush'n'roulette grab bag. (See what I did their? Russian roulette? Rush'n'roulette? I'll keep my dayjob.)

 

My impression is that it feels to me like they expected something other than what they're getting. In a lot of games, alt-itis is a general detriment to your ability to spend time really polishing and tweaking your main, especially in a raidy-geargrind game.

 

Here, it seems like that's, very literally, an intended part of the endgame. And it's rather decently supported (in concept) and incentivized (in theory) by the upcoming Legacy system.

 

Moreover, it's not all that difficult th get decently PVE geared, can take a while to get 'perfectly' PVE geared and can also take a while to get PVP geared period. Crafting isn't very much fun and tends to mire one in lots of frustration one way or another, and while there actually isn't a dearth of 'endgame content' for a fresh, new MMO...

 

...People have been playing the Player versus Glitch-Bug-Error game with a lot of it, particularly in Eternity Vault, for weeks now. There are bizarre and infuriating oversights in loot distribution in Ops. Hardmode FP's are Player versus Enrage Timer.

 

 

I think they had different expectations for how players would play and what players would find fun, have to buck up and feel tolerant of and be outright alienated by.

 

I don't know that as fact. Just the notion my experience leaves me with.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Uruare

[StrikeOfLight]

Felt the same way on most levels.

 

Couldn't stand it. Unsubbed 4 days ago.

[Gaun]

Just so ppl understand... I played wow for 6months in vanilla and got tired of it.. Boring game.. Raided everything etc. Had my fun, not a good game in the long run.. Then I tried a bunch of mmo's.. up until SWTOR I never felt like capping and playing the game more than one month..

 

So swtor is successful in my book... Goes to show.. Opinions are opinions and nothing else..

[Traumahawk]

I think they had different expectations for how players would play and what players would find fun, have to buck up and feel tolerant of and be outright alienated by.

 

I don't know that as fact. Just the notion my experience leaves me with.

I was sitting at the computer earlier today trying to figure out where the disconnect may have occurred. It's as if each constituent piece of the game were tested for fun-factor, but no one actually sat down and played everything in succession--as one large "work". The issues with lack of mob diversity and repetitive play MAY have shown a bit better. In beta, it felt like a sandbox...fun because you knew you could make changes through feedback...most of us also didn't have time to level a character to 50 before the wipes every few weeks, so there wasn't enough time to digest it all.

[FerrusPA]

I think they had different expectations for how players would play and what players would find fun, have to buck up and feel tolerant of and be outright alienated by.

 

I don't know that as fact. Just the notion my experience leaves me with.

 

The sheer amount of people who simply start the next alt once they reach 49 or so (Or even way before that) goes to show that the current system works for them.

 

Everyone who doesn't want to park their main and start over again gets frustrated instead.

[Lazzer]

To be honest I never played WoW, when it was released I was heavily into EQ and it never interested me. I'm having fun with this game because off the story and the fact that I only play 2 to 3 hours in an evening.

 

I enjoy the linear story progression, this was one of the reasons I played LotRO after searching around for a long time for an MMO after quitting EQ. I left LotRO before it went freeplay once they start introducing the instances which you could join from any where in the world just by clicking in your menu. That killed it for me and reduced the game to groups of people standing around merchant camps and doing nothing in the real world anymore.

[Uruare]

It's as if each constituent piece of the game were tested for fun-factor, but no one actually sat down and played everything in succession--as one large "work".

 

 

 

You know, you might have put a finger on something clarifying there. It feels very much like that to me as well.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Uruare

[Lazzer]

I think the other issue here is that Bioware have created a game that suits a certain type of gamer, people that have different expectations get disappointed and want it changed to suit them, I'm not criticising anyone but I am taking the game as a new game and for what it is.

 

I'm not expecting it to be any other game nor comply to any pre-set standards, if I don't like the game I'll stop playing and buy a different one. At the moment I'm enjoying it and am quite satisfied.

[Greywinter]

I am missing the epic pvp fights i use to have over herb and mining nodes in WoW. I wish there was some world pvp in this game. Gathering was so much fun with enemy faction around back in WoW.

 

Also crafting materials are not as noteworthy as they were in WoW. Back in WoW it had some meaning to gather Black Lotus or Frost lotus, Lichblooms etc. Here in swtor crafting materials are barely noticeable, all the nodes look more or less the same though the crafting material you get from them varies and is completely forgettable.

 

I have maxed out my Bioanalysis / Biochem / Diplomacy but i barely remember the names of the ingredients i used to make stims, medpacs, implants etc.