To save crafting we need item decay

[Vydor_HC]

Like I said, blinders. DAOC had a PvE endgame as well as PvP, and it had far more rewards. The fact that you don't even know that calls into question your credibility.

 

heh, Yes it had PvE in it, so what..that wasn't the reason people left. It was the effect PvE had on PvP that caused people to leave. You're trying to say that it was item decay in that caused people to leave DAoC for WoW, which is simply not true. And trying to deflect from that losing argument by saying DAoC had PvE in it doesn't help. It's only a coincidence that WoW didn't have item decay, not the reason that people left DAoC.

[Caelrie]

Indeed. I totally ****** my pants about having to buy mulitple vibroknucklers for my TKM in SWG because I could wear out about 4 of them in a day while leveling up the profession. All that planethopping to search for weapon merchants with quality goods was oh so much fun. Especially during the hologrind when every crafter was grinding up new professions all the time to unlock Jedi. No, that didn't contribute at all to me quitting that game

 

I didn't enjoy that either. SWG was farming credits to buy gear in order to farm more credits so you could buy gear to replace the gear that broke while you were farming credits to buy gear...

 

I play MMOs to be an adventurer, not a consumer.

[Caelrie]

heh, Yes it had PvE in it, so what..that wasn't the reason people left. It was the effect PvE had on PvP that caused people to leave. You're trying to say that it was item decay in that caused people to leave DAoC for WoW, which is simply not true. And trying to deflect from that losing argument by saying DAoC had PvE in it doesn't help. It's only a coincidence that WoW didn't have item decay, not the reason that people left DAoC.

 

Now you're using a straw man. Nowhere did I ever say that item decay was THE reason. Learn to debate, please.

[Vydor_HC]

Now you're using a straw man. Nowhere did I ever say that item decay was THE reason. Learn to debate, please.

 

Sorry, that's exactly what you said.

 

DAOC failed when a new MMORPG without item decay launched.

[Caelrie]

Sorry, that's exactly what you said.

 

Nowhere does that say that was the only reason. Straw man.

[Mytilus]

instead of item decay have a system of item rental.

 

You pay to use items for specific periods of time and then hand them back when finished. Longer you keep them, more you pay.

[ptwonline]

Well, I never heard anyone from DAoC say that they were leaving due to item decay. This issue in DAoC that caused it's mass exodus were from PvP side of things, not from having to repair gear. It's merely coincidence, and has nothing to do with the cause.

 

It's the sort of thing that isn't THE reason for leaving, but it's a nuisance and as such is a contributing factor.

 

For example, I doubt many people will leave this game because of the stupid spaceport->orbital station->airlock runs, but it IS an annoyance that will contribute to negative overall feelings towards the game.

[Caelrie]

instead of item decay have a system of item rental.

 

You pay to use items for specific periods of time and then hand them back when finished. Longer you keep them, more you pay.

 

And then the crafter has to pay you twice as much as an advertising fee for wearing it out in the world. Deal?

[Vydor_HC]

Nowhere does that say that was the only reason. Straw man.

 

hehe, that's what you said. You're saying that the correlation was the cause. Which it wasn't. People didn't leave DAoC because of item decay.

[Caelrie]

hehe, that's what you said. You're saying that the correlation was the cause. Which it wasn't. People didn't leave DAoC because of item decay.

 

I notice I'm not the only person calling you out for your straw man now, so I'm done with this silly thread hijacking argument with you.

[Vydor_HC]

It's the sort of thing that isn't THE reason for leaving, but it's a nuisance and as such is a contributing factor.

 

For example, I doubt many people will leave this game because of the stupid spaceport->orbital station->airlock runs, but it IS an annoyance that will contribute to negative overall feelings towards the game.

 

-nods-

 

I know what your saying, and what the other poster is saying. It might be a nuisance but it wasn't the cause. And having played DAoC from early beta to Classic, there wasn't a big outcry in the game over item decay, like you said it was a nuisance that people lived with.

[Cavadus]

I didn't enjoy that either. SWG was farming credits to buy gear in order to farm more credits so you could buy gear to replace the gear that broke while you were farming credits to buy gear...

 

I play MMOs to be an adventurer, not a consumer.

 

That's not an argument against permanent item decay, that's an argument against SWG"s rate of decay which was unacceptable.

 

Many games get permanent item decay right. Fallen Earth is a good example. A rifle will net you about two weeks of heavy use. Every item can be repaired to max twenty times until it breaks from fatigue.

 

That's forty weeks, or most of a year, before an item is officially broken.

 

That's acceptable and still creates turnover.

 

All that being said, permanent item decay has no place in a shallow featureless themepark like TOR.

 

And on top of that there's nothing which can be crafted which is better than looted/farmed equipment so, really, who cares about this?

Edited February 3, 2012 by Cavadus

[Vydor_HC]

I notice I'm not the only person calling you out for your straw man now, so I'm done with this silly thread hijacking argument with you.

 

-nods-

 

Like I said in my initial reply to you, the fact that DAoC had item decay was not the reason for it's decline...not in the least. That was a fallacy on your part to relate the two.

[Voranis]

Item Decay = the worste idea since the 'tunnel shooter' for space content.

 

You want item turnover?

Make items worth selling to venders instead of 1/1000'th of value.

Not junk loot mind you, but usable equip.

It's the only way to do it.

[Vodalus]

(I'm breaking one of my own "rules" here and posting without reading beyond the first page, but I just wanted to toss this point into the discussion.)

 

Gear (armor and weapon) crafting cannot be saved in this game without completely overhauling the gear systems. Quite simply, by breaking gear into two distinct and separate systems, modable and non-modable, they ensured that gear will always be a clunky and cumbersome aspect of the game that fights with itself.

 

We already know that, at least be the time you reach your capitol world, green gear is almost totally obsolete. Blue gear becomes such fairly soon afterward. That leaves purple and orange as the two real routes for gear. Purple works for those who are constantly running group content in their leveling and those at end-game currently. Orange works for everyone else.

 

With the impending changes to purple and orange gear, Orange now becomes end-game viable, further reducing purple gear's usefulness.

 

The gear-producing crew skills make green, with the occasional blue. They can grind their tails off and spend a lot of money to get to purple schematics, but the production of purple gear is expensive enough to make that pointless. The only viable gear for crafting is the very rare and random orange schematic. Frankly, a crafting profession cannot survive on something that rare and random, it needs viable basic production items; the bread and butter, so to speak. Those just don't exist in this system of totally different and competing gearing programs.

[Nitewolfe]

-nods-

 

Like I said in my initial reply to you, the fact that DAoC had item decay was not the reason for it's decline...not in the least. That was a fallacy on your part to relate the two.

 

Maybe this was said some where else in this thread but even daoc completely removed item decay!

[Mannoth]

We already have item decay.

 

It's called Bind on Equip and Bind on Pickup.

 

Binding is the only type of 'item decay' that has been accepted by mainstream MMO players in the last decade. Anything else is trashed for being awful (because it is).

Edited February 4, 2012 by Mannoth

[Thorun]

No.

/5 chars

[DevonDs]

Please. ...no..never....no way ..no how......

 

Keep the crafting system secondary....do not make me a slave to the mercantile machinations of other players.....encourage me to craft for myself.....my companions...

...maybe friends and guilds....but please please never make me buying from other people a need or only way to have good gear.

[MissTwilight]

ALRIGHT! Y'all hate the item decay idea. What is a more viable option then? Just better gear to create for crafters? What options do we have?

 

I think the option is simple: through crafting, be able to make really, really cool and unique items that you can get no where else.

 

Also: support crafting in-game; i.e., why not have fully-voiced crafter quests that put you on adventures to find rare ingredients at the high levels?

 

Also: as you move up in your profession, the game should unlock various passive bonuses, skills and other advantages for your character, so it's not just about making "stuff."

 

Also: tie crafting into your light/dark side choices. So if I'm really dark side, I should be able to unlock some really cool items in my crafting fields with good dark side flavor.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[Folgrin]

I'd rather crafting die forever than something like this.

 

Terrible idea.

[DevonDs]

Items already decay and I pay a vendor to repair the stuff. No, I don't want to have to start paying you to fix my stuff. I earn items from playing. No, I don't want to pay you for items instead of earning it. I don't want to "have" to give you anything at all in order to enjoy the game.

 

Well said

[Shaddaq]

Hello,

 

I have an alternative idea to make crafting much more important, and to enhance the game economy in general.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=269864

[LogicalPremise]

Again, item decay only changes things if you remove commendation vendors, which punishes people who have no interest in crafting and don't feel like being shafted by greedy crafters.

 

The solution is improvements to crafting results and making more unique gear with looks or abilities not found in non-crafted , commendation or PVP gear available.

[uniz]

the whole idea of a endgame is to play end game content to get better gear. be it pve or pvp this is how these games work. there is no "saving" to be done. your premise is flawed terribly. anything that replaces this WITHOUT getting the "mats" from doing ONLY this content will fail. hard core gamers will leave in droves. these are the ones that pay and play long term for the most part. there is no market here for gear. stop trying to make one.

 

decay is a poor idea at best. idiotic is more of a term i would use. no one wants to grind gear for temporary usage. nor go on vacation for two weeks and come back to naked toons. yes this system would be awesome now wouldnt it.

 

people need to understand that end game people who earn thier gear through HOURS of pvping or end game content will not tolerate anything that a crafter can make without killing the same content nor putting in the same amount of time. this type of thing will KILL a good mmo.

 

perhaps a better solution for crafting is to add "fluff" crafter items to be put on your ship or add housing/guild halls that can contain these items. there are several other ways to help crafters. in time this game will implement them. having everything at launch doesnt happen. eqs and wow didnt have them. this game is no different. this is something people need to learn.