Carnage. What am I doing wrong?

[QuietGoneJinn]

So first, I want to say I'm not trying to start a "Which spec is best in PvP thread" or trying to start a fight, I just want some pointers or information on the Carnage spec. Perhaps Rage (And even Anni) just better suited my style of play, and it's nothing more than that?

 

Secondly, I've used Annihilation to much success, and respeced to Rage for even greater success. I wanted to give all 3 specs a fair chance, so that's why I want to know if I seem to be doing something wrong.

 

A bit about my Character:

Champion Armor set: 9/12

Strength: 1343

Endurance: 1263

Highest Strength Datacron (The GGG)

All 67 Datacrons (Even +10)

 

 

After respecing from Rage-to-Carnage I saw huge decreases across the board:

• About -60k total overal damage

• About 50% reduction in Damage per Second

• And worst of all, my character's survivability dropped well past 50% (Before I was almost tanky, but immediately after respecing I noticed I could barely get off a rotation without dropping dead).

• Lost about 1.5k in Critical Strikes

 

 

Any advice?

Edited February 3, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[nikpower]

 

After respecing from Rage-to-Carnage ( i ll respec back to anhi though )I saw huge decreases across the board,:

• About -60k total overal damage

• About 50% reduction in Damage per Second

• And worst of all, my character's survivability dropped well past 50% (Before I was almost tanky, but immediately after respecing I noticed I could barely get off a rotation without dropping dead).

• Lost about 1.5k in Critical Strikes

 

 

Any advice?

 

fixed that for ya...

you are doing nothing worng, go back to anhi

Edited February 3, 2012 by nikpower

[Greekeh]

Force charge - Battering Assault - Gore - FS - Ravage - Rupture before force choke and hes dead.

[Selixx]

So first, I want to say I'm not trying to start a "Which spec is best in PvP thread" or trying to start a fight, I just want some pointers or information on the Carnage spec. Perhaps Rage (And even Anni) just better suited my style of play, and it's nothing more than that?

 

Secondly, I've used Annihilation to much success, and respeced to Rage for even greater success. I wanted to give all 3 specs a fair chance, so that's why I want to know if I seem to be doing something wrong.

 

A bit about my Character:

Champion Armor set: 9/12

Strength: 1343

Endurance: 1263

Highest Strength Datacron (The GGG)

All 67 Datacrons (Even +10)

 

 

After respecing from Rage-to-Carnage I saw huge decreases across the board:

• About -60k total overal damage

• About 50% reduction in Damage per Second

• And worst of all, my character's survivability dropped well past 50% (Before I was almost tanky, but immediately after respecing I noticed I could barely get off a rotation without dropping dead).

• Lost about 1.5k in Critical Strikes

 

 

Any advice?

 

You shouldn't be seeing huge decrease like that between the specs, carnage performs at nearly the same level as Annihilation, perhaps a small dps decrease. Carnage has more single target dps then Rage, so you definitely should not be seeing that from those two specs.

 

Perhaps you don't have the rotation down properly? There is a good Carnage guide at the top of the Marauder forums you may want to glance over. I personally see very little difference in my overall performance when switching between anni and carnage (though I dislike Rage).

[AmedusTOR]

I've had the same issue. I love the Carnage spec; LOVE IT. It's based primarily on fast strikes and lightsaber combat. It has speed increases and roots and snares ideal for PVP. However, I just can't get it to belt out the same damage as either Annihilation or Rage.

 

And that sucks. I REALLY want to use it.

[QuietGoneJinn]

I definitely need to learn a proper rotation (Not entirely sure when to use Massacre and Gore to make Ravage crit for higher (I've heard it should do 5k easy)).

 

But the one thing I am most curious about is the vast survivability drop. Does Rage have something in it to make you last longer? When I was Rage speced, I actually used the Roll AoE defense boost from the Carnage tree, so I assumed Carnage was gonna provide me, at least, a bit more lasting power. Instead I immediately noticed I was about as strong as a wet piece of toilet paper.

 

I could survive 1-on-2s and even 1-on-3s for a few minutes in Rage (At least had enough life to escape and regroup), but with Carnage I seemed to be cut down in just a few seconds with only 1-on-1s (Even when there's someone healing me). I am nothing short of flabbergasted at how quickly I have died in my experimental PvP matches.

[tjstix]

but with Carnage I seemed to be cut down in just a few seconds with only 1-on-1s

 

That's how I feel with Anni a lot of the time.

[Flameseeker]

I'm also Carnage tried Rage was ok havent tried anni yet gonna try it soon.

For carnage you should be force charge battering gore massacer force scream

(Gore gives 100% AP, massacer for the free ataru from hit and 100% force scream crit)

my issue with carnage and i assume this is the SW class as a whole is its energy based attacks are mitigated threw armor meaning unless your chacing someone using light armor in pvp your always going to be taking more damage then you can dish out. Your medium armor isn't quite as good againts those energy attacks that come from other classes. JC advanced classes use kinetic damage.

[moomies]

I definitely need to learn a proper rotation (Not entirely sure when to use Massacre and Gore to make Ravage crit for higher (I've heard it should do 5k easy)).

I usually do: Force charge -> Battering -> Gore -> Massacre -> FS -> Ravage or Choke

When using Berserk: Massacre + Massacre + Massacre + FS + Massacre + Massacre + Massacre.

 

Try this too: Force charge -> Battering -> Deadly throw -> Gore -> FS -> Ravage or Choke. It can be useful group.

 

I could survive 1-on-2s and even 1-on-3s for a few minutes in Rage (At least had enough life to escape and regroup), but with Carnage I seemed to be cut down in just a few seconds with only 1-on-1s (Even when there's someone healing me). I am nothing short of flabbergasted at how quickly I have died in my experimental PvP matches.

 

Rage has Undying which gives 2% dmg red and -30sec Undying Rage, thus gives more survivability. Dont forget the Defensive Forms in Carnage tree +2% dmg red.

 

 

Carnage I seemed to be cut down in just a few seconds with only 1-on-1s (Even when there's someone healing me).

That someone u were fighting must one hell of a dmg dealer then... for him to out dmg the healing done? and still drop you down in seconds?

Even with Carnage you can still stand your ground vs2; I did it many times and others have done it too.

 

 

Cheerz

Edited February 3, 2012 by moomies

[Kibaken]

I usually do: Force charge -> Battering -> Gore -> Massacre -> FS -> Ravage or Choke

When using Berserk: Massacre + Massacre + Massacre + FS + Massacre + Massacre + Massacre.

 

Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

 

 

Charge/Battering/Massacre/Gore/Ravage/Scream

Edited February 3, 2012 by Kibaken

[moomies]

Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

 

 

Charge/Battering/Massacre/Gore/Ravage/Scream

 

 

Aren't you exaggerating with the 'o'?

 

Ok srsly. Why Massacre -> Gore instead Gore -> Massacre?

And Ravage -> Scream instead of Scream -> Ravage.

 

Cheerz

[Kibaken]

Massacre is our main filler but nowhere near important for our burst phase.

 

Refreshing Massacre before burst allows for Gore and Ravage to give more Ataru procs.

 

As for the ordering, it comes down to a timing thing. This is copypasta'd from my guide:

 

There is a specific reason why Ravage should be ahead of Scream during the Gore phase. As of now it seems that if the last hit of Ravage does not hit within Gore it does not benefit from the buff, as shown:

 

0 - Gore

1.5 - Scream

4.5 - Ravage Start

6.0 - Ravage End, Gore Ends

 

If not executed precisely, Gore will fade and the last hit of Ravage will go off at the same time and, due to latency/ability delay/etc, this can happen often. A better alternative is what I now have listed above:

 

-1.5 - Massacre

0 - Gore

1.5 - Ravage Start

4.5 - Ravage End, Scream

6.0 - (Scream's GCD) Gore fades

 

This gives Scream's entire GCD as leeway for latency and the like while insuring all of your key abilities benefit from Gore. By using Massacre before Gore you will have the Massacre buff on for the Duration of Ravage so, in the case that Blood Frenzy falls off before that, you essentially have 4 Massacre-buffed hits to get it back up.

[moomies]

Make sense. Gonna try the new rotations, thx!

[Munx]

Force charge - Battering Assault - Gore - FS - Ravage - Rupture before force choke and hes dead.

 

Meeep wrong, Force Charge - Battering Assault - Gore - Ravage - FS.

 

If you use force scream before ravage, the last ravage hit wont get benefit from armor red, as force scream adds a rather unpleasent gcd.

 

Also, you don't use Massacre to proc ataru while using ravage ffs -_-

 

Mix it with our rage builders and you'll get insane dmg, as you will proc three times within a short period, with good enough stats those procs are as 1k a piece + the 2-2.5k from massacre + offhand + 600-800 from normal attack / 1000+ from battering..

 

Using massacre before ravage is a waste, as you would still only proc one time during the duration of your ravage.

 

On a diffrent note, if you master your carnage spec, anni marauders can't touch you dps wise, and there is absolutely NO spec ingame that can cut trough tanks like carnage marauders and combat sentinels.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Munx

[Tempsticks]

Actually, most of Annihilation's damage comes from bleeds, which is internal damage (hey it works on tanks!), which doesn't require you to have Gore up to be effective. Also, the bleed damage still ticks even after you get cc'd, knocked back, knocked over, mezzed, or whatever else they toss your way. Carnage has a wonky rotation for pvp and even if you have MAXIMUM time on target, you don't tear things down as fast. They cc you or knock you back right after you Gore? Touch luck champ.

[Nisa]

why is deadly throw not brought up at all

 

i realize the spec in the sticky doesnt include the skill that adds a root proc to it,

but u got to get it and u got to use it yo

Edited February 3, 2012 by Nisa

[Heartless-hate]

I dont understand the logic behind FC > BA as apposed to FC > mass

 

my rotation (fc > mass) does a lot of things. first you get your 1 rage 1.5 seconds faster, second you cause the BA (which is now the 3rd hit in the rotation) to have a higher chance to proc an ataru hit and as such, more damage.

 

 

any comments on why this is not a better rotation?

[Munx]

You ravage has a higher damage potential then your massacre, and with 3 hits it already has plenty of chance to proc ataru.

 

The correct combo for maximizing damage would be Battering Assault -Gore - Ravage - Forcescream (Gore wears off) - Massacre - Normal attack (To maximize profit from massacre by forcing a second and possibly third proc.

 

Then mix it up how ever you see fit from there.

 

How ever that combo easily has the highest damage potential of all the marauder specs.

 

Another useful "combo" is when you can use your frenzy, activate it, battering assault, gore Massacre x2 - force scream - Massacre x3 - forcescream.

 

This is highly effective if you are specced correctly, in frenzy your massacre should only cost 1 rage.

 

How ever those who think massacre damage is useless without our gore, lets just say you'd be suprised if you ran into a carnage marauder that knows his spec, the gore is not the diffrence between low and acceptable damage, its the diffrence between high and absurd damage.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Munx

[Greekeh]

Meeep wrong, Force Charge - Battering Assault - Gore - Ravage - FS.

 

If you use force scream before ravage, the last ravage hit wont get benefit from armor red, as force scream adds a rather unpleasent gcd.

 

Also, you don't use Massacre to proc ataru while using ravage ffs -_-

 

Mix it with our rage builders and you'll get insane dmg, as you will proc three times within a short period, with good enough stats those procs are as 1k a piece + the 2-2.5k from massacre + offhand + 600-800 from normal attack / 1000+ from battering..

 

Using massacre before ravage is a waste, as you would still only proc one time during the duration of your ravage.

 

On a diffrent note, if you master your carnage spec, anni marauders can't touch you dps wise, and there is absolutely NO spec ingame that can cut trough tanks like carnage marauders and combat sentinels.

 

Im talking PvP wise if you want to burst someone down quick. Sometimes ravage gets bugged in pvp or they will cc away from it so thats why I use it last.

[AcaciaDragon]

I dont understand the logic behind FC > BA as apposed to FC > mass

 

my rotation (fc > mass) does a lot of things. first you get your 1 rage 1.5 seconds faster, second you cause the BA (which is now the 3rd hit in the rotation) to have a higher chance to proc an ataru hit and as such, more damage.

 

 

any comments on why this is not a better rotation?

 

The more rage you have the better. BA is on a Cooldown, when you open with charge then BA you get 10 rage(certain talents required). Now you can go to town. and your BA will slowly becoming available. BA will be a major source of Rage for you, Using it Every chance you get is essential.

[miliways]

Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

 

 

Charge/Battering/Massacre/Gore/Scream/Ravage

 

Fixed.

 

If you can manage to get off Scream last and still get in during gore, then power to you. In the heat of battle, I'll usually get FS off JUST after I lose the buff, so thats a HUGE damage loss. Gore + FS is your main bread n butter of Carnage. (especially with guaranteed crit proc)

Its less of a big deal if I miss out on part of Ravage as opposed to FS guaranteed burst.

 

Plus ravage is super buggy, and people tend to run off while I'm busy channeling and rooted.

Edited February 6, 2012 by miliways

[Kibaken]

Fixed.

 

If you can manage to get off Scream last and still get in during gore, then power to you. In the heat of battle, I'll usually get FS off JUST after I lose the buff, so thats a HUGE damage loss. Gore + FS is your main bread n butter of Carnage. (especially with guaranteed crit proc)

Its less of a big deal if I miss out on part of Ravage as opposed to FS guaranteed burst.

 

Plus ravage is super buggy, and people tend to run off while I'm busy channeling and rooted.

 

My reasoning for putting Ravage ahead is earlier in this thread. If timed properly it won't get messed up.

[AcaciaDragon]

My reasoning for putting Ravage ahead is earlier in this thread. If timed properly it won't get messed up.

 

You even have enough time after the scream goes off to watch your opponent pause in suprise. Sometimes i can almost hear the, *** WAS THAT, being yelled.

[Kibaken]

You even have enough time after the scream goes off to watch your opponent pause in suprise. Sometimes i can almost hear the, *** WAS THAT, being yelled.

 

Even better is when I scream, start to run away and Deadly Throw.

 

Glorious.

[Myrdoc]

Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

 

 

Charge/Battering/Massacre/Gore/Ravage/Scream

 

 

^^^This.

 

Though it can be shortened to "Gore->Ravage->Scream" Anything before and after that is situational and/or personal preference. Learn/train yourself to Gore->Ravage->Scream, and DO NOT clip the last attack on Ravage with that Scream. After you can make yourself do that consistently then start worrying about the before and after.