Ashamed of the community...

[Cruoris]

This is, I guess, an extension to my other post.

 

I am pretty ashamed of the assassin community who supports the Deception + DC nerf. Some of them are just jelly tanks who didn't want us dipping in their medals but a lot of them are actual Deception assassins.

 

It's pretty ridiculous to think that anyone would supprt a nerf as completely uncalled for as this one.

 

Many other classes are set up way better than us: marauders with their defensive CDs and Med armor, PTs with their defensive CDs and heavy armor (they can do equal damage to us, even in a tank spec) and the list goes on.

 

Do you really think that an ability that required precise timing and thinking ahead "out-playing" your opponent, if you will, was really that broken?

 

I think, from what I've gathered, is that the complaints stem from the assassins who hang out in DC all fight while being spec'ed for Deception. If that's the case that's like complaining about BH Mercs who spam tracer. Sure it might take you by surprise the first time and net the offensive player a kill, or in this case allow the offending player to do... something? (MASSIVE offensive nerf both to energy gen and Discharge)

 

I just really don't understand the outcry pro-nerf here. We're already one of the worst melee out there. The burst is there but the setup required rarely happens in live PvP.

 

In short, /sigh and /shame to all you assassins complaining about Deception having it too good. And /facepalm to all you other classes in this forum complaining while experiencing the symptoms of PEBKAC.

[Piree]

As a tank I get 12-14 medals each WZ. So couldn't care less about that.

 

But when I played deception I felt squishy and the damage wasn't that great compared to Marauders who got better damage and WAAY better survivability.

[Shalashasa]

somebody was saying Deception is good?

 

lol I could get 14 medals with Darkness and have gotten 16 before. The nerf wasnt to nerf deception it was to nerf Darkness sins from hybrid over into Deception.

 

Darkness was OP deception is for PVE

Edited February 2, 2012 by Shalashasa

[Rodobson]

While this may appear to be a nerf, it is in fact a step toward balancing and fixing. Stance dancing is not an intended mechanic among any class.

 

I'm not in any position to argue about whether the damage is high enough, or the survivability is high enough, or the utility is high enough. These changes are not about that. These changes are to solidify the design concept that when you spec, you do so with a role in mind, and that role is defined and supported by your stance. They do not want people effortlessly shifting between Tank and burst DPS and sustained DPS. You enter the battlefield to serve one role.

[Invitcted]

deception is for PVE

Except you know that madness is better in every way for pve...

 

That said I'm not intrinsically opposed to nerfs (especially to broken hybrid specs) but hopefully this highlights that deception needs attention if it wants to compete in either arena.

[SWFTW]

Dark Charge in deception is OP?

 

WHAT. THE. HELL.

 

If OP is being able to survive longer than 3 seconds and having sub-par damage, I want to see UP.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin
Rude comments

[Cruoris]

Dark Charge in deception is OP?

 

WHAT. THE. HELL.

 

If OP is begin able to survive longer than 3 seconds and having sub-par damage, I want to see UP.

 

Amen, brother.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[Kuvi]

Of all the classes to limit...

[DarthCnox]

There was no reason to change anything here. If you had some ponits in madness or deception as a primary dark charge user, it as so that you could do SOME damage while having SOME survivability.

 

I've never EVER heard one complaint that assassins were just some unkillable machine on the battle field. Nor have i ever heard one complaint taht their damage output is over the top.

 

All this is, is some class designer's ego needing to be stroked so they have to bend all these talents and abilities so that the class is played the way they want to play.

 

And to hear someone say 'And you're not supposed to stance dance', that is the same line of crap they said about warriors in WoW. And you know what? 5 years later they realized how stupid that is so they actaully let you stance dance (not that I'm saying anyone DOES stance dance...I never switch stances in a fight, 50 energy was too much to loose and now 100 is just LoL). The point is, there is no 'balance' in these changes, it's just excluding gameplay options,. Plus, there's pleanty of other places that classes need to be looked at outside of Assassins, and there's a LOT of changes in this patch on us, and I just have no CLUE why they are spending so much time on us.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin
Rude comments

[AedanWolfe]

There was no reason to change anything here. If you had some ponits in madness or deception as a primary dark charge user, it as so that you could do SOME damage while having SOME survivability.

 

I've never EVER heard one complaint that assassins were just some unkillable machine on the battle field. Nor have i ever heard one complaint taht their damage output is over the top.

 

All this is, is some class designer's ego needing to be stroked so they have to bend all these talents and abilities so that the class is played the way they want to play.

 

And to hear someone say 'And you're not supposed to stance dance', that is the same line of crap they said about warriors in WoW. And you know what? 5 years later they realized how stupid that is so they actaully let you stance dance (not that I'm saying anyone DOES stance dance...I never switch stances in a fight, 50 energy was too much to loose and now 100 is just LoL). The point is, there is no 'balance' in these changes, it's just excluding gameplay options. Plus, there's pleanty of other places that classes need to be looked at outside of Assassins, and there's a LOT of changes in this patch on us, and I just have no CLUE why they are spending so much time on us.

 

darthcnox buddy, you make me smile. lets break it down in the realm of reality for you, no bashing no making fun of, just simple explanations.

 

no reason to change, class designers ego, stance dance.

 

i get it, you feel it was working, so didnt need being axed. however you completly miss the point with statements like i listed above.

 

a class designers JOB is to make sure the class hes designing fits within the designated goals. if it doesnt, then its his JOB to adjust things accordingly.

 

BW is balancing around the idea of pures, not hybrids. whether you hate this or not is irrelevant, its how it is.

 

now the 23/0/18 build...was better then any other build for pvp...and it was hybrid. this goes against BW's balancing intentions and the class designers designated goals. so, they change it, now a deep darkness build is better. however the process of changing has made some specs worse, like deception unable to use darknesses charge for extra survivability. now, you act as tho they did this willy nilly with absolutly no attention to address deception. you can complain how they did it, the order, or doing it before they had the fixes for deceoption sure, but to suggest they are not going to adjust deception again is just silly and a bit of hyperbole as we are talking about a paid mmo here.

 

stance dancing is hte same idea, they didnt like it, so they made it even less wieldly in hopes tha tpeople will just drop it. no real hidden agenda here.

 

so basically what your complaining about is people doing there jobs, and you disliking hte current ...everchanging, outcome.

 

in wow i remember shamans complaining they needed changes, many people at timse agreed they were in the most needy category, yet that didnt change them from recieving changes last or near last every time, cuz thats the order shamans were places in, it was almost always the same order for passing sweeps.

 

so what if inquisitors are in that situation? were just up front for changes, has nothing to do with whose most broke or weakest.

 

and taking away gameplay options whiel you may dislike, is perfectly valid if they provide something that BW doesnt want you to have on said class, or if it creates a unbalance (which 23/0/18 did).

 

now i dont expect this to stop your crusade against hte unfair practices of Bw headquarters, but i just hope some other people see it, and can either agree or provide a convincing counterpoint...of which i deeply doubt you will in your current emotional state.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[ombraa]

Bah, I respecced to 31/0/10 without complaining nor being happy, time to give this build a shot

[Shalashasa]

Bah, I respecced to 31/0/10 without complaining nor being happy, time to give this build a shot

 

you will find it very effective. not as fun as other trees and maybe not how you would want to play your Assassin but Darkness works very well in pvp. Its the best tree for it.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Shalashasa

[Fujah]

you will find it very effective. not as fun as other trees and maybe not how you would want to play your Assassin but Darkness works very well in pvp. Its the best tree for it.

 

God forbid we don't want fun..

[Sabbathius]

Meh.

 

I don't support the nerf. I think it's idiotic what they're doing. I also think it's completely uncalled for - when was the last time you saw anyone complaining about Sins in PvP or PvE? Ever? I can't remember even one case, honestly.

 

But what can we do, really? Two options - bend over and take it, or quit the game. There's no other choices available.

 

Personally I'm staying for February. Though Mass Effect 3 demo is coming in less than two weeks. Depending on how good it is, I might just preorder ME3 and quit SWTOR for a while. Let them figure out what they want to do, and then maybe come back.

[Zederok]

you will find it very effective. not as fun as other trees and maybe not how you would want to play your Assassin but Darkness works very well in pvp. Its the best tree for it.

 

Not only is it effective it is the only tree worth speccing into. Especially if you want it to be as non-rng as possible or idiot proof considering the lack of UI support for displaying proc abilities, watching for Raze proc is almost agonizing because you spend so much time looking at the small UI buff bar looking for it. Plus as an added benefit Darkness earns the most medals, and has by far the best survivability and a 3 stack Withered Darkness just ***** face on pretty much anyone.

[AetherMcLoud]

somebody was saying Deception is good?

 

lol I could get 14 medals with Darkness and have gotten 16 before. The nerf wasnt to nerf deception it was to nerf Darkness sins from hybrid over into Deception.

 

Darkness was OP deception is for PVE

 

16, really? Are there even that much medals available?

[NintendoJesus]

While this may appear to be a nerf, it is in fact a step toward balancing and fixing. Stance dancing is not an intended mechanic among any class.

 

I'm not in any position to argue about whether the damage is high enough, or the survivability is high enough, or the utility is high enough. These changes are not about that. These changes are to solidify the design concept that when you spec, you do so with a role in mind, and that role is defined and supported by your stance. They do not want people effortlessly shifting between Tank and burst DPS and sustained DPS. You enter the battlefield to serve one role.

 

Very few people were actively stance dancing to begin with. Most everyone, myself included have decided that sitting in Dark Charge at all times is the only viable option.

 

Not to say that Deception cannot be effective. But as an Imperial player, 9 out of every 10 games is Huttball, so any non-DC spec really just isn't an option if I want to be most effective for my team. But that is another problem entirely. There is no room in competitive Huttball games for ninja/assassin type characters to begin with. Mobility and Pull/Push abilities reign supreme. You either have them, or you lose. If I were Republic, I would be much less aggravated with this upcoming patch as I could go full Deception.

[Tamernator]

While this may appear to be a nerf, it is in fact a step toward balancing and fixing. Stance dancing is not an intended mechanic among any class.

 

If stance dancing is not intended then facking make it passive, THE END. But when you have not passive and not bound to tree buffs it means by itself THAT U CAN CHANGE THEM.

[Rodobson]

I really feel this is a case of people wanting to play in a manner that the devs do not intend for. Yes you can still change stances but at a huge cost, making it not worth it in most situations.

 

If Dark Charge is mandatory for all the specs to be effective, then that is a huge indicator about what is the real issue. Deception/ Madness players feel there is a legitimate need for more survivability.

 

Plead that case to the devs. Don't waste efforts campaigning against their design philosophy.

[Technohic]

Bah, I respecced to 31/0/10 without complaining nor being happy, time to give this build a shot

 

This is seriously going to be the build of 80-85% of assassins out there. been playing around with other concepts and some are ok, but fal a little short. Besides that, all I ever see is "need Tank" so might as well just suck it up and deal.

[DarthNorik]

This is seriously going to be the build of 80-85% of assassins out there. been playing around with other concepts and some are ok, but fal a little short. Besides that, all I ever see is "need Tank" so might as well just suck it up and deal.

 

27/1/13 better IMO. One point in duplicity gives maul procs more than most think. Plus it gets death field just by sacrificing wither.

[Technohic]

27/1/13 better IMO. One point in duplicity gives maul procs more than most think. Plus it gets death field just by sacrificing wither.

 

Will death field be worth it when Wither actually gives a stack of harnessed darkness?

Edited February 3, 2012 by Technohic

[DarthNorik]

Will death field be worth it when Wither actually gives a stack of harnessed darkness?

 

 

I don't know, the 30 range and damage is nice, but more force lightnings....

[Technohic]

I don't know, the 30 range and damage is nice, but more force lightnings....

 

Maybe it could be decided by how much you fill the role of tank? Not sure how much wither helps hold agro compared to using Death Field and Maul.

[hikotai]

I really feel this is a case of people wanting to play in a manner that the devs do not intend for. Yes you can still change stances but at a huge cost, making it not worth it in most situations.

 

If Dark Charge is mandatory for all the specs to be effective, then that is a huge indicator about what is the real issue. Deception/ Madness players feel there is a legitimate need for more survivability.

 

Plead that case to the devs. Don't waste efforts campaigning against their design philosophy.

 

^ This ^

 

Making senseless QQ and entitlement rage about not getting what you wanted out of hybrid builds and such isn't going to get the class anywhere. BioWare didn't make a bad decision, they're just doing it in a somewhat incomplete manner. That's the thing we need to focus on in the feedback. Hybrid specs will not be the most powerful anymore, time to deal with it. They'll still exist, but their existence is now an issue of utility, not one of power. Learn this, understand this, and you'll find less reason to cry.

 

To elaborate, the hybrid builds like the 23/0/18 spec were made to address numerous issues and failings of the Assassin class as a whole. Fixing this is a two-fold process: first, the pure trees need to be empowered, so that hybrid builds are no longer necessary to make the class feel strong. Second, the hybrids need to be toned down so that they don't outperform the empowered pures (this being the major design goal of the devs, they want people to actually finish their trees).

 

As it stands, the empowering of the pures has been partially done. Darkness and Madness are both getting a lot of love, albeit some in discrete places, though I still have questions about the survivability of Madness. Deception, however, is still lacking. The down-play of the hybrids appears to be done.

 

If they did something to buff Deception survivability a little more, I think a lot of the complaints would vanish. That +30% armor talent isn't gonna accomplish anything, BioWare. 30% more armor accomplishes nothing when you're in light armor. Some more anti-CC would be a godsend as a melee class -- in fact I think that might be the needed change. Let them stay squishy, just be harder for enemies to control. That way they don't eat so much dirt in group play.

Edited February 3, 2012 by hikotai