Petition: REMOVE THE NEED TO WIN FOR PVP QUESTS

[Sporticus]

Some of us don't wanna sit around playing warzones for 10 hours a day.

 

Then don't.

[Rathgaar]

Where's the Petition?

 

Oh Well.

 

Vote : No Friggin Way

[KilmarFyrewynd]

The problem is not people not playing to win. The problem is that the Empire vastly outnumbers the republic in most servers (including my own).

 

Here's an example. I was on Voidstar yesterday with ONE other teammate vs 8 empire players right in the beginning. The game states it will end if more people do not join in 120 seconds. ONE player joins and the game starts. Within 30 seconds, they have broken through the first door. 2 others join. So we have 5v8 on the second door. Within 2 minutes, they have broken through. Round 2. 6v8, we tried breaking through for 3 minutes without success. 2 others join. We now have 8v8, but it's too late to do anything about it.

 

Why BW would allow a PvP to start with such lopsided teams is beyond me. Leave us at the start and don't open up the gates unless there is a +/- 1 difference in teams. I'd rather wait a few more minutes or end the match instead of going 3v8.

Edited February 6, 2012 by KilmarFyrewynd

[Jergis]

-The only reason i even considered supporting the OPs petition is that even when i win, it doesn't count.

 

Fix the bug, less time in.

 

Even when we deserve the commendations we don't get them. Since i started PvP for gear (i just want the one chest piece, and i hate the distribution system of random bag hits, but that's another discussion) 1 out of every 5 matches i am on winning side of doesn't count.

 

That's bad, and rage-inducing when those odds run a couple in a row on a particular day.

 

I'd prefer changes to loot versus rewarding losers (which the game already does by awarding commendations even in a loss. Shh, don't tell anyone), but the combination of all those factors (and the occasional hackers) combine to spit out a PvP system that is frustratingly-difficult to continue in for folks using it as their gear acquisition choice versus PvE end-game.

 

Jergis

Edited February 6, 2012 by Jergis

[Malice_Nihilim]

What are you blabbering about? o_o Is this like you first theme park mmo or what?

 

If that translated to 'do I consider WoW's pathetic system and SWTOR's even more pathetic' system signs of good rewards for PvP?' Then I'd say "HELLLLL NO".

 

So since this is PvE in sheeps clothing, you might as well reward everyone eventually, since it has nothing to do with being skilled or competitive, PvP is all about gear in this game, so the end result is 'give them cake' because there is no point in not giving them cake.

 

When we get a game like DAoC, Shadowbane, Darkfall, etc, then we can worry about not handing out the goodies to people that an't trying, but as it stands, who cares, the sooner everyone is geared up in PvP, the more we can enjoy actual matches of skill instead of obviously 1 sided gear fights.

[XearoBadlag]

Bad example, people fail at making a part or project all the time and get paid, jobs pay you by the hour or salary, not normally by the success.

 

Ask the bankers that crashed the US/World economy how those million dollar bonuses went, for failing so bad at there jobs that they brought the world to its knees.

 

I agree, bad example. Here's a better one.

 

I'm a motorcycle technician who gets paid flat-rate. If I forget to torque something on a motorcycle that causes a catastrophic failure while the customer is riding it, guess who gets hit with a lawsuit, guess who doesn't get paid for that job (regardless of how long it took to complete), and guess who's probably going to get fired for being incompetent?

 

My employers won't simply hand me a pay-check for performing sub-par work because I showed up and made an effort. I have to complete jobs in a timely manner and complete them correctly in order to get paid.

[Pestwulf]

Are you joking? Get back to PVE.

 

Not that I am in favor of the OP, but seriously...watch what you ask for.

 

you hardcore pvp'ers basically live off of all the folks that don't. If they took your advice you can kiss your queue times goodbye and deservedly so imo.

 

No, people should not be rewarded for passive participation or failing. This is not PVP-lite even if it occurs on an RP server. However, there does need to be some incentive or fun involved or why the hell would anyone queue repeatedly for a massacre?

 

However, here are my experiences over the past week.

 

I started a brand new Shadow character for pvp and started play exclusively PVP at level 10, called Bantook.

 

• I went up against all levels and did exceptionally well compared to my experiences with 50's in the mix.
  
• I was able to kill pretty much every class out there and when outnumbered I was able to help keep my sides objectives by delaying, running balls or whatever.
  
• I could however tell immediately when I ran up against a level 40 that had actual PVP gear. The same imbalance that we were seeing against pvp geared 50's still exists against 40's. They basically destroyed me without me being able to hardly retaliate at all.
  
• I was useful in all three maps and ranked in the middle or top 1/3 in some category (damage or kills)
  
• I consistently raked in 5 to 7 medals compared to my healer who maybe got 3
  
• I noticed that in every game where I made the most impact, by delaying, guarding or doing undesirable things like stealthing till I could get a ball pass and score, I got next to nothing in Medals.
  
• I level up faster and with more money than any other avenue. I'm level 18 now after playing off and on for 3 days, i've bought about 15k of items at auction to gear up with, constantly send my companion out on diplomacy missions for darkside poitns and still have about 15k credits in the bank. Best way to earn money and exp in the game, period.
  
• Class choice and tree choice make a huge difference. my level 10 Shadow did way better with no Sprint and only 3 attack buttons than my level 30 heal spec trooper. If you plan to pvp daily, then you must spec for it or you will be under performing and will be more reliant on your team to make up the difference.
  
• The 15% Expertise boost you can buy is so powerful I could not believe it. Against opponents who do not use it and do not have PVP gear, you will utterly destroy them at level 10. I took out a 3vs1 by popping this. This stim is a huge factor in PVP...HUGE.
  

 

With all this in mind, It gives me a few conclusions.

40's will break pvp balance just like 50's did if they gear out. However, since you can't stop gaining exp, I don't think this will be a large problem. If they allow you to cap your exp so you can go to 49 and just hang out there in all pvp gear..it will break the balance again.

 

The Voidstar map needs help. not just because the Republic appears incapable of properly defending that map, but for a couple of reasons and these apply to both sides.

 

1. The time out values for being in the box are horrible. When you are on the losing side and outgeared by a pack of 40's you spend most of your game watching the action and wishing you could do something, but not. It's incredibly not fun.

 

2. We get killed defending a point that just got blown up. everyone goes through the doors and we have to wait, and wait, and then we have to run and catch up to the action again leaving our side short-manned for an excessive mount of time.

 

3. We get killed defending a point, but spawn in the next zone, which really helps. Except the penalty time is so long, that I have actually had 5 other people in the box with me while we watched the enemy enter the zone, lower the bridge, walk over and plant the bomb and get out of the box just as it explodes.

 

I can not properly express how frustrating the voidstar map is, but I do feel the pvp vendor needs to be selling lube. Please change this to some kind of fun map so we can at least fail in a less frustrating way than watching all the action from a spectator box.

 

The last of my conclusions is that I don't really see a problem beyond the voidstar map. The win/loss of the games seems solely dependent on the quality and gear of the players on each side. if one side is pvp geared and the other is not, it's 100% a massacre. barring that, it's about coordination and people doing their jobs. guild groups joining makes a definite difference especially in Huttball, but not so much that it's a 100% win.

 

My suggestion for people getting massacred is to take a 15 or 30 minute break until you can get a different mix of people to play with. No matter who your opponent is, and no matter how much you scream on chat, if the idiots keep fighting in the middle of the board and not making an effort to win the map, you will lose every time.

 

Taking a break and coming back has fixed most of my massacre problems. I will continue to play my Bantook shadow in pvp only to experience my growth as well as any other issues. And my record is far better than 10%, I would say the republic on my server is winning better than 50% of the matches.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Pestwulf

[MightyAl]

Maybe replace it with a points system. Each win gets you 10 points, losing gets you 1. You need 30 for the daily quest.

And if you turn in 30 points of fail, then the game laughs at you.

[CoolSprog]

I'd like to sign this petition.

 

I'd also like to make one of my own.

 

Sign if you think when you wipe on bosses the chest should unlock and the boss serve you lemonade on the way back in as you go to loot it.

[RazielHex]

3. We get killed defending a point, but spawn in the next zone, which really helps. Except the penalty time is so long, that I have actually had 5 other people in the box with me while we watched the enemy enter the zone, lower the bridge, walk over and plant the bomb and get out of the box just as it explodes.

 

Now you're lying.

 

Activating Bridge: 8 Seconds

Activating Bomb: 8 Seconds

Bomb time limit: 20 Seconds

 

Miscellaneous travelling: 6-20 Seconds.

 

There's no way you were in that box for anything close to a full minute.

[Pappus]

Is it even as bad as you guys say it is?

 

Every day the same, I login do my first 3 bgs, 3 wins .. return to bounty board. Occasionally one doesn't count.

[Ekemeister]

Go play LoL. YOu don't need to win to advance (though it helps).

[matekwong]

I would just afk in the WZ if participation counts

[Lalush]

This is my Number 1, most annoying thing I hate about this game.

 

I feel like I am forced to do the daily PVP quests as the rewards are so good, but I hate the fact that you have to win matches to get it.

 

Why is my participation alone not enough. It should be changed to Warzone Matches Played. Some days it can take over 5 hours to get 3 wins. Not everyone has a premade PVP team.

 

I have played some days and my team has lost easily 10 games in a row. I usually finish in the top 3 players in each game but my participation means nothing because if the team doesnt win, the rewards *********** suck.

 

Please change this it's so annoying.

So just go in the wz and let tho other tem win fast that way I can complete my quest in 5 min. Nice idea

[rzrknight]

Usually i get 3 out of 5 , ofc i have problems of not counting , today i got 3 in a row.

 

Maybe ya should practice more.

[Chunkie]

Wait wait wait. Let me get this straight. You want to be rewarded for not winning just because you decided to be the hero in the WZ?

 

Ya, i don't think so.

[Lord_Karsk]

Agree bigtime, but have it be complete let say 6 matches for the daily.

And there is a minimum you must do in damage or healing or protection say 60 k

for one of these or atlest 100 k put together.

 

And the better you do in these things in the warzone, the more Valor and credits you get on a personal basis.Also getting medals

give a even bigger reward in Valor etc.

 

It's fair and it reward you even thou maybe the rest of the team suck in that match.

[BothanFourTwenty]

I don't even do lvl 50 pvp anymore. The imbalances with gear are so outright insane that it's not worth it to even TRY the daily unless you have access to a pre-made or are just damn lucky for the first 3 games. I make alts to get my pvp fix. Much easier to get the daily done on them. When I hit 50 with them I move on to another alt.

[Nomiematiko]

This is my Number 1, most annoying thing I hate about this game.

 

I feel like I am forced to do the daily PVP quests as the rewards are so good, but I hate the fact that you have to win matches to get it.

 

Why is my participation alone not enough. It should be changed to Warzone Matches Played. Some days it can take over 5 hours to get 3 wins. Not everyone has a premade PVP team.

 

I have played some days and my team has lost easily 10 games in a row. I usually finish in the top 3 players in each game but my participation means nothing because if the team doesnt win, the rewards *********** suck.

 

Please change this it's so annoying.

 

Not everyone as pvp premade team that is true, not everyone as pve premade team either, so it is fair, they should just alow 8man premades assap so that semi pvpers leave, and go do their pve or just pvp for the lols, wich is fine by me.

[Helig]

As a republic player that hates the imp advantages and obvious favortisum, I still say no.

 

While it is more difficult for us Rebs to win now, it will make us all better in the long run and then it will be time for some Pay Back.

 

Just win baby!

 

This. I play both sides, though, so...

[Nomiematiko]

I don't even do lvl 50 pvp anymore. The imbalances with gear are so outright insane that it's not worth it to even TRY the daily unless you have access to a pre-made or are just damn lucky for the first 3 games. I make alts to get my pvp fix. Much easier to get the daily done on them. When I hit 50 with them I move on to another alt.

 

and you wonder why you dont have a pvp geared char :| i have 0 alts i'm about to hit rank Battlemaster and i play 2-3 hours a day, i have done almost no pve with my guild because i love pvp, you either have lots of time and do both pve and pvp, or just dont do alts till u have everything you need in a char. I play republic so when i reached lvl 50 there where alot of lvl 50 full champion imps and a few battlemasters, so i had to loose alot to be pvp geared, so do the same.

[Khelzar]

I don't even do lvl 50 pvp anymore. The imbalances with gear are so outright insane that it's not worth it to even TRY the daily unless you have access to a pre-made or are just damn lucky for the first 3 games. I make alts to get my pvp fix. Much easier to get the daily done on them. When I hit 50 with them I move on to another alt.

 

 

This. I happen to be in the less geared faction in my server (those that didn't get to farm Ilum during the bug). So I've adopted the philosophy of trying six games if I don't get -1- win in those six games, I just stop PvPing for the day. I'm not turning this into a job. As the above poster mentioned, I also get my fix from the 10-49 bracket.

 

Of course this means that my daily is not really a daily, and usually it takes 1-3 days to complete.

 

The whole system is flawed. The dominant faction in a server with the best gear has the best chance at winning games therefore they finish their dailies faster therefore they get geared faster. So what's the point? Queues at level 50 are becoming longer and longer because people are just not queuing up and instead spend their time in the 10-49 bracket, which of course, now has faster queues.

[Nomiematiko]

This. I happen to be in the less geared faction in my server (those that didn't get to farm Ilum during the bug). So I've adopted the philosophy of trying six games if I don't get -1- win in those six games, I just stop PvPing for the day. I'm not turning this into a job. As the above poster mentioned, I also get my fix from the 10-49 bracket.

 

Of course this means that my daily is not really a daily, and usually it takes 1-3 days to complete.

 

The whole system is flawed. The dominant faction in a server with the best gear has the best chance at winning games therefore they finish their dailies faster therefore they get geared faster. So what's the point? Queues at level 50 are becoming longer and longer because people are just not queuing up and instead spend their time in the 10-49 bracket, which of course, now has faster queues.

 

But you have to premade in pve, you dont just random choose a team and go do Operations, pvp is way more dificult so you really have to premade no way around it.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Nomiematiko

[Khelzar]

and you wonder why you dont have a pvp geared char :| i have 0 alts i'm about to hit rank Battlemaster and i play 2-3 hours a day, i have done almost no pve with my guild because i love pvp, you either have lots of time and do both pve and pvp, or just dont do alts till u have everything you need in a char. I play republic so when i reached lvl 50 there where alot of lvl 50 full champion imps and a few battlemasters, so i had to loose alot to be pvp geared, so do the same.

 

And was it fun, to lose a lot I mean? Is there somewhere that says that they couldn't design the system so gearing up at 50 is actually fun? I love both PvP and PvE and nowhere do I remember seeing that I had to choose which one to go for, no in fact the game advertises providing both experiences for a player to enjoy.

 

Getting my level 20 and 40 sets for my character? That was some fun pvp. Win or lose, it was just fun. Level 50, not so much and the idea that we need to engage in an unfun activity, gearing through losses, in order to be competitive is just ridiculous.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Khelzar

[Nomiematiko]

And was it fun, to lose a lot I mean? Is there somewhere that says that they couldn't design the system so gearing up at 50 is actually fun? I love both PvP and PvP and nowhere do I remember seeing that I had to choose which one to go for, no in fact the game advertises providing both experiences for a player to enjoy.

 

Getting my level 20 and 40 sets for my character? That was some fun pvp. Win or lose, it was just fun. Level 50, not so much and the idea that we need to engage in an unfun activity, gearing through losses, in order to be competitive is just ridiculous.

 

 

It is never fun to lose, but what i'm really trying to say is that pvp isnt for pugs like pve isnt either, you need to premade, i endured thru all those losses because i wanted better gear, and now after the patch is way easier, but you still need to premade.