Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) So, I see they gave Mara's some love in the patch on the PTR and I cannot help but feel.... jealous and a little annoyed at their lack of attention to the MOST broken class in the game. Same goes for the Guardian our mirror republic scum class. I'm just curious about something. Is it just me and correct me if I am wrong, but adding something like "also add's 4/8/10% threat" to the Heavy Handed talent, or adding high threat to sweeping strikes? Is the coding hard or something? Because looking at the class changes they made in this patch seem like more work would be involed in that then simply adding threat to sweeping strikes, which would not solve everything, but imo it would be a large boon. Edit: Here's the link to the PTR patch http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2419221#edit2419221 Edited February 2, 2012 by Endriago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekryth Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Juggs just got a way to double force charge last patch by using force push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamishkan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have never had any trouble whatsoever with my Jugg, PvP or PvE. I honestly have NO idea why everyone thinks it's broken, in PvP I'm ALWAYS at least top 5 in damage, high kills, low deaths, I know my character, and I know how to play it. I would love if someone could explain to me why we're broken? The only thing I can think of is how useless Ravage is in most situations outside of leveling. Especially in PvP against ANY class except other warriors, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 That was quite a few patches ago and really could have done with out it. Only useful in PVP and situational in PvE and almost not at all in Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) The "buff" they gave the maras is actually a DPS loss, when the math is done. So the marauders got nerfed. Still jelly? Check page two/three of http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=261198 looking for cosmasterkiller's math Edited February 2, 2012 by dorkvid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iimare Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have never had any trouble whatsoever with my Jugg, PvP or PvE. I honestly have NO idea why everyone thinks it's broken, in PvP I'm ALWAYS at least top 5 in damage, high kills, low deaths, I know my character, and I know how to play it. I would love if someone could explain to me why we're broken? The only thing I can think of is how useless Ravage is in most situations outside of leveling. Especially in PvP against ANY class except other warriors, lol. No problems as tank either, not high dps but takes a ton of damage to down (especially in front of heals)...Not too bad in 1v1 situtations either Ravage takes a stun to get off, unless the guy is dumb enough to stay there. Also, I know alot of people say lack of range but a jug with range and close melee we have would be OP. Just sayin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 The "buff" they gave the maras is actually a DPS loss, when the math is done. So the marauders got nerfed. Still jelly? Check page two/three of http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=261198 looking for cosmasterkiller's math Whoa, weird. The way they played it out was as if it was several buffs to several abilities. That's interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamAbach Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is my opinion that yes threat is an issue but yes you can work around it in PvE. PvP on the other hand our ability to Tank /mitigate damage does not scale with the DPS of all other classes . Take for instance a Sorc that can heal and DPS to the point that they can kill a Immortal spec Juggernaut easily. Not to mention the ability to just get away. I mean really I have 10 meter range and I am constantly snared, rooted,and stunned rinse and repeat,so really whats the point in chasing ,cannon fodder? Can I kill a Sorc sure provided all the tools of the trade are in order ie..Inv. and so on.for other classes,and what I mean by that is they don't have to use cool downs or temp buffs to kill you. Clearly there is a problem with the class but not to the point that its unplayable. On another note . I have had a hard time understanding why these MMO feel the need to give ranged classes so much CC ability against melee. My thought is if your ranged and you let melee get close to you its your own fault ,you should have moved. Melee should have a majority of the roots ,snares just so they can keep there targets from getting out of their range. I also think that ranged should be able to break these CC to keep it fair. IMO get rid of all ranged classes CC abilities and give them to melee only ,and quit letting range rule the day . Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Ranged has always had an unfair advantage in every MMO I've ever played. Melee, warriors in pertidular have always gotten the short end of the stick and always been the underdog, not just melee in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyyuga Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The only thing I can think of is how useless Ravage is in most situations outside of leveling. Especially in PvP against ANY class except other warriors, lol. with unchanneled foce choke i use ravage in pvp quite often (but that only goes for the immortals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurro Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That was quite a few patches ago and really could have done with out it. Only useful in PVP and situational in PvE and almost not at all in Ops. ROFL Did you know that Ops are PvE? No? And its tremendously useful in PvP. Go cry somewhere else PvE noob...srsly. So obvious proof that PvE players are just bad and have no clue about the game compared to PvP players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascivar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm just going to throw this out there: The "buff" that we Marauders received was actually a nerf, our Bleedout was providing 30% damage to -all- bleeds instead of just crit bleeds. They corrected it to just being crit bleeds, and gave us a little pat on the head with an extra 9% bleed damage to another talent. I'm not concerned with it because I'm not Annihilation spec, but look into the abilities before you feel "jealous" about them, unless you truly meant you actually want to be nerfed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasta_ Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Tank classes are a lot harder to balance than DPS classes. It's not really that hard to stick a Marauder up against a virtual training dummy of sorts and check to see if their numbers stack up to what you expect. Tanks need more tweaking. You have to worry about the effects of any change on protecting other ppl in PvP, how it affects any serious PVE boss in the game AND its affect on tanky DPS builds. Not too worried myself. A tank patch will come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 ROFL Did you know that Ops are PvE? No? And its tremendously useful in PvP. Go cry somewhere else PvE noob...srsly. So obvious proof that PvE players are just bad and have no clue about the game compared to PvP players. Sounds like someones mad. Cause ya know, it's all about the PVPer's rigt? There is no other type of game play right? Go back to CoD and that other garbage games kid. If you even read what you quoted I said it was useful in PvP but hardly and if only situational in PvE. It's like the nerd rage just made you become American and just straight out become defensive of your play style over mine like you are somehow better then me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurro Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Sounds like someones mad. Cause ya know, it's all about the PVPer's rigt? There is no other type of game play right? Go back to CoD and that other garbage games kid. If you even read what you quoted I said it was useful in PvP but hardly and if only situational in PvE. It's like the nerd rage just made you become American and just straight out become defensive of your play style over mine like you are somehow better then me. I agree with you, that CoD is garbage. And I missunderstood that you think Juggernauts are weak in PvE and need a buff in that aspect. May I ask what makes problems for you? Because I never heard of any Juggernaut that it is impossible to clear any content in PvE regards, so maybe you should put somewhat more effort into it or play something more casual like WoW tanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I never said it was impossible. I only said that the class is the most broken out of the other classes and needs to be looked at and hasn't since the Force push patch. That's all. Only making an observation, stating my opinion and asking harmless questions that seem to have offended you and put you into a nerd rage. Must be that time of month or something, because you are irrationally jumping to conclusions and looking for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namespace Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) The problem with Jugg's is you have to play them REALLY well to even look like you are playing another class OK. The effort put into making a jugg play well is exponentially higher than another class playing well. It's not that Juggs are bad, or worthless, the problem is every class can do what we do, do it better, and with less effort. Juggs are usually the last class picked for operations, usually only brought for the buff, and thats if there is no marauder. Edited February 2, 2012 by namespace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSThomas Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is my opinion that yes threat is an issue but yes you can work around it in PvE. PvP on the other hand our ability to Tank /mitigate damage does not scale with the DPS of all other classes . Take for instance a Sorc that can heal and DPS to the point that they can kill a Immortal spec Juggernaut easily. It's my opinion that you are wrong. DPS immortal Jugg here and Sorcs do not kill me 1v1. Ever. I have way too many interrupts for them to start healing. Only way they will beat me is if they outgear me by a lot. It's all about skill vs skill. If you cant kill something its an L2P issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeers Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I leveled an IA to 50. I'm 46 on the jug. Sith Assassin Tank 36. This class rocks. I'm really not sure what the complaint is. The IA's healing is really, really broken. The Sith Assassin tanking is amazingly weak. Anyway, just my personal experience. Edited February 2, 2012 by Redbeers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddzball Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I leveled an IA to 50. I'm 46 on the jug. Sith Assassin Tank 36. This class rocks. I'm really not sure what the complaint is. The IA's healing is really, really broken. The Sith Assassin tanking is amazingly weak. Anyway, just my personal experience. This is the problem right there. It's not that Juggs are bad, or worthless, the problem is every class can do what we do, do it better, and with less effort. Juggs are usually the last class picked for operations, usually only brought for the buff, and thats if there is no marauder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurro Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I never said it was impossible. I only said that the class is the most broken out of the other classes and needs to be looked at and hasn't since the Force push patch. That's all. Only making an observation, stating my opinion and asking harmless questions that seem to have offended you and put you into a nerd rage. Must be that time of month or something, because you are irrationally jumping to conclusions and looking for a fight. Did you play every other class there is, or who did you make this observation? Dont come with your stupid comparsion between you and your PT friend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endriago Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 The problem with Jugg's is you have to play them REALLY well to even look like you are playing another class OK. The effort put into making a jugg play well is exponentially higher than another class playing well. It's not that Juggs are bad, or worthless, the problem is every class can do what we do, do it better, and with less effort. Juggs are usually the last class picked for operations, usually only brought for the buff, and thats if there is no marauder. I need not say more. This is what I was seeing and finding for myself as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsexy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 In the parlance of our internet times, "If you have a tough time, you're doing it wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I believe the problem people are having is the dps tree is actually has more tanking ability than the immortal tree. The immortal tree also has the ability to due more damage. I could be mistaken but usually the tank tree is for tanking not dps. The talents are the problems with juggs not their skills or mechanics. --Edit mind you Ravage is pretty useless Edited February 2, 2012 by Draqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalsaDMA Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I believe the problem people are having is the dps tree is actually has more tanking ability than the immortal tree. The immortal tree also has the ability to due more damage. I could be mistaken but usually the tank tree is for tanking not dps. The talents are the problems with juggs not their skills or mechanics. --Edit mind you Ravage is pretty useless dps leads to threat. And given the lack of often usable high threat moves, dps seems to be a big part of how jugs are to get threat :-/ Maintaining aggro is part of tanking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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