So the newly 50's expect to be treated like royalty because?

[XDOUBLEX]

As a guy who grinded 60 valor in WZ's about 80% and 20% of it was valor on Ilum ( no I got about 5k from the 200 valor Ilum day total in fights at central), a guy who went 24 champ bags without any gear and not a single complaint about it, I find it laughable that people complain about how hard it is to get gear.

 

There should be something that is tough in this game (not that 60 valor is THAT tough). I made BM and still had 2 pieces of centurion gear and have gotten 2 BM tokens out of roughly 18-24 BM bags.

 

When I was grinding in the 50's bracket I just made sure I played smart and still stayed near the top of the damage board while trying to win and get 7-8 medals a game. It really wasn't that hard.

 

1. Play to your profs strengths. If your a sorc, don't go down into the lowest pit, its really not a good place for you to mix it up.

 

2. A mob is the best place to be, if they are your team.

 

3. If you are getting popped for 2k or 4k then get away or kite them to your team because you can't win that fight. I see far to many people trying to go toe to toe with someone who they shouldn't.

 

4. Launch out of Ilum for the valor bonus +200 is like a free match every 5. I spent the time capturing points between queues and it helps.

 

There are tons of tips out there if you are having trouble, its really not that hard to kill a battlemaster if you play smart. I get killed all the time from smart players even with 660 Expertise (12.something%)

 

-Good luck all

[AndantePhist]

Before I hit 50, I did some research on the most efficient way to gear up when turning 50.

 

I wrote a whole guide about... within days of hitting 50, I had no trouble competing against fully pvp geared opponents.

 

Sure, I couldn't crush them, and in a 1vs1 they had a slight upper hand, but I never experienced the stomping most fresh 50s are describing because I took the time to use means given by the game to become a threat.

[DustomaticGXC]

This is a HUGE issue that plagues even the biggest MMO developers.

 

Hypothetically. . .you're a developer, you wanna create more and more content for your subscribers, yet you also want to make the content more difficult to complete, as well as develop gear progression(everyone wants more gear).

 

Over time your content will become very 'linear' because of the required gear progression. So essentially, you're developing new content JUST for the old subscribers(new subscribers have a crap ton of old content to grind before they're ready, gear wise, for the new stuff).

 

You're gonna piss off a lot of new subscribers to the game if you're advertising this new content pack yet your new subscribers have to go through 3 years of grinding in order to be able to play that 'new' content.

 

So you see developers start to 'give' the newer players this gear that the older players have been grinding all this time in order to get. Yes you're gonna piss off the older players since they had to work harder for it, but without the newer players the warzone queues could get longer and longer, as well as the people LFG for newer content.

 

They want everyone to be able to enjoy all the content provided to them, if they so choose.

 

While personally I dont think expertise is the end all be all of PvP, Bioware doesn't want newer subscribers to be felt like they shouldn't try to start PvPing simply because they're new to the game. This isn't good for current new players, or word of mouth when others are talking about PvP in the game.

 

You do realize that to new players, old content IS new content. But that's just it. They don't want to experience content. They want gear. Which absolutely baffles me. If you could see everything in the game without using gear OR you were handed all the gear you wanted without doing any of the content, most people would take the free gear.

 

I'll never understand the mindset of the average MMO player.

[Veshir]

I fail to see the problem. You think you are taking too much damage? Don't stand in the middle of the zerg and expect to live, pvp is a lot about positioning

 

The pvp gear is an advantage for those who have them for sure. However, I recently dinged 50 on my alt and I've been running around in wz's a bit. This is a char with not a single pvp piece. Ofc I get stomped at times, yet most of the times I'm doing well, sometimes better, compared to the fully geared guys. I don't except my recently dinged 50 to perform just as well as ppl who have put down countless of hours to farm their gear, neither should anyone else.

 

The only problem I'm able to see with newly dinged 50 ppl in wz's is if they are running around in lvl 40 gear or something, I have seen it happen. Well. If they don't use the commendations they get from questing/pvping sub 50 then the fault does not lay on the ones who spent a lot of time getting their gear and honing their skill.

 

This game is not some welfare organisation. Get out there and start farming your gear in FP's/Ops or WZ's if you want to outperform those who have spent countless of hours on getting where they now are.

[PolakToma]

If you arent willing to make the effort to gear up, you dont deserve anything more than to be smashed in pvp.

 

A person serious about surviving as a fresh 50 would make an effort to gear up as best he can with BoE's, rather than just going into a WZ with 11k hp and then QQing when he racks up 15 deaths. Simply put, the effort that you put into the game, should be proportional to your performance. Nothing wrong here.

 

Agree^

[Quantum]

It's not "too challenging," it's "ridiculously one-sided." You act like there's even a remote chance of a fresh 50 going head-to-head against a character with even a smattering of pvp gear and winning, and that's just not the case. Outside of knocking people into the acid/fire, or shooting them of the bridge, the player in pvp gear is going to win every time.

 

A "challenge" implies there's actually a chance of winning. There is no such chance with the gear disparity.

 

 

And I'll agree this is a huge issue, I'm in a new 50, every bag I've gotten has had Cent tokens, I'm spent all day trying to complete my "Daily" and didn't get a single match. Hits that in the 1-49 bracket normally gave me crits of 3k, do between 900 and 1200 damage about a 1/3 difference.

 

That's the disparity, I'm doing 30% less damage while taking more than before not to count not having nearly the same Health. Since the guild I'm in doesn't have many 50's at the moment I have little choice but to Q up solo, this means I'm often in groups of players in the exact same situation. We're getting around 30-40 com's per match with ~10% chance of completing dailies since the majority of our matches are against premades.

 

So since it's 800 coms per bag (since dailies aren't happening for me and obviously many others), and being generous and saying 50 coms per WZ (pretty common when you're getting roled usually ~40-60 when losing), and 20 minutes on average a War Zone (3 per hour for 150 coms 20 min average with Time + Cut scenes), we're talking like around 5.5 hours per bag. 5.5 hours for 3 Cent tokens? How long for a suit of that?, heck that means the Relics, the cheapest item on the list, are a 26 hours time investment that's more than an entire days just for a 14 token Centurion relic. More than 2 days real time, not play time, to obtain just Relic slot items? If you only play 2-3 hours a day, that's more than a week just for relics.. and people wonder why folks are complaining.

[Kuari]

You do realize that to new players, old content IS new content. But that's just it. They don't want to experience content. They want gear. Which absolutely baffles me. If you could see everything in the game without using gear OR you were handed all the gear you wanted without doing any of the content, most people would take the free gear.

 

I'll never understand the mindset of the average MMO player.

 

While there is some truth to that, people are also ignoring the fact that most people who are geared up now never experienced things to quite the same extent people are now. Hell, even rolling an alt isn't the same because your main can supply a lot to make your job easier.

 

Refusing to acknowledge this as most are and instead claiming they did more work when its becoming the fresh 50s doing more work just isn't logical.

 

Slicing helps too to buy everything, but come one, should all newbies have to roll slicing?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Kuari

[DustomaticGXC]

Before I hit 50, I did some research on the most efficient way to gear up when turning 50.

 

I wrote a whole guide about... within days of hitting 50, I had no trouble competing against fully pvp geared opponents.

 

Sure, I couldn't crush them, and in a 1vs1 they had a slight upper hand, but I never experienced the stomping most fresh 50s are describing because I took the time to use means given by the game to become a threat.

 

May I add this guide link to my signature? It's amazing.

[Geminel]

I stopped reading the OP at 'long time'.

 

The game has still only been out a month, it wouldn't even be 2 months yet even if you counted early access. No one has been 50 for any long period of time, they just got their early when everyone else was as badly geared as they were and got to have fair fights while they grinded up to Battlemaster.

[DustomaticGXC]

While there is some truth to that, people are also ignoring the fact that most people who are geared up now never experienced things to quite the same extent people are now. Hell, even rolling an alt isn't the same because your main can supply a lot to make your job easier.

 

Refusing to acknowledge this as most are and instead claiming they did more work when its becoming the fresh 50s doing more work just isn't logical.

 

Slicing helps too to buy everything, but come one, should all newbies have to roll slicing?

 

There's no reason why a person can't have 500-750k credits by the time they hit 50. Spending some money on the GTN on level 50 blue+ quality gear for every slot you have would do wonders for many people. I can't tell you how often I see people in WZs with level 42 greens wondering why they can't compete.

[Khalvarik]

I love the idea as I play games like eve where the production of gear is controlled by the people not some stupid rng bag system.

While there are things that people cant make it is very hard to get and very very expensive.

Its always better for a game when players make most everything as if you are not a crafter earn the money and go buy it from the market.

[DustomaticGXC]

A pre-made 8 player team with some coordination and zero pvp gear can beat an 8 player pug with oodles of it.

 

Get some friends.

[Quantum]

I don't except my recently dinged 50 to perform just as well as ppl who have put down countless of hours to farm their gear, neither should anyone else.

 

What about all the folks that have their gear that didn't put in countless hours either, the last couple of patches totally screwed over anyone that wasn't lvl 50 before hand. The better gear available for sub 50's was jacked up in price, and these new 50's don't have the benefit of being able to go in and face plant countless under 50's like many of our currently geared 50's did prior to brackets not to mention Valor farming in Ilum prior to changes to help curb it somewhat.

 

I don't expect a fresh 50 to preform as well either, but neither do I expect an instant 30% outgoing damage reduction, 30% incoming damage increase, all the while facing opponents with 30% more health. That's the issue not that many of us want the playing field completely leveled, it's that we want it to enter the a Galaxy somewhere near one of competitiveness.

[Vis-Tecum]

While there is some truth to that, people are also ignoring the fact that most people who are geared up now never experienced things to quite the same extent people are now. Hell, even rolling an alt isn't the same because your main can supply a lot to make your job easier.

 

Refusing to acknowledge this as most are and instead claiming they did more work when its becoming the fresh 50s doing more work just isn't logical.

 

Slicing helps too to buy everything, but come one, should all newbies have to roll slicing?

 

um.... before the pre 50 bracket was alot worse we didnt even have the option to gear ourselves

Edited February 2, 2012 by Vis-Tecum

[Dharst]

Just lose the Expertise stat... completely. That way I can grind gear anywhere.

 

The only reason that's an unacceptable solution is because those with want to be able to stomp on those without.

 

Or they think because they had to suffer- everyone should have too.

 

No thanks- I'll wait for GW2... and you guys can fight amongst your own faction in SWTOR.

[Kasukua]

where does it actually say, from BW that they are lowering. don't quote the post, cause I can't find it from the link

[GRINnBARRETT]

PvE endgame is generally about progression or has been in my experience.

 

PvP on the other hand is about fun. Fun means that there needs to be a reasonable expectation that you can at least contribute to your team without getting mauled in 4 seconds by the battlemaster crew (and I don't know of a single person or forum thread where someone said they got rolled back from the welfare valor earned during the 1.1 fiasco).

 

I realize that people want to be able to further their character in order to obtain some kind of edge, but what many really want is a gear/stat divide that is so large that the outcome could never be in doubt. If people are afraid of this change then they are simply afraid of competition. For them, fun isn't defined as a close match but rather faceroll game play.

 

This has nothing to do with people wanting free gear & everything to do with maintaining a viable pvp population on the servers. If endgame pvp is allowed to have a large gear/stat divide then a lot of people will quit pvping once they reach level 50. Rift is a perfect example of this as they allowed the gear divide to basically destroy the endgame pvp.

 

In order to maintain a healthy pvp population, you have to be willing to make it easier for new people and alts to enter the bracket. This may take some sacrifice on your part, but it's better than not having anyone to fight against isn't it?

[Sonyghost]

screw it, goin back to wow now lol

[Rakimou]

Yeah, let's **** on the new 50s, they are subhuman trash.

[Dharst]

So since it's 800 coms per bag (since dailies aren't happening for me and obviously many others), and being generous and saying 50 coms per WZ (pretty common when you're getting roled usually ~40-60 when losing), and 20 minutes on average a War Zone (3 per hour for 150 coms 20 min average with Time + Cut scenes), we're talking like around 5.5 hours per bag. 5.5 hours for 3 Cent tokens? How long for a suit of that?, heck that means the Relics, the cheapest item on the list, are a 26 hours time investment that's more than an entire days just for a 14 token Centurion relic. More than 2 days real time, not play time, to obtain just Relic slot items? If you only play 2-3 hours a day, that's more than a week just for relics.. and people wonder why folks are complaining.

 

You missed the other side of the issue completely. That grind you speak of for a single piece... the Imperials you are fighting are probably gearing up every piece in the same time frame...

 

So the disparity grows even more.

 

Give it another month of the same... and the only realistic solution will be to start over. Rollback gear, tokens, everything.

 

It'll never happen (that would an open admission of failure) which is another nail in swtor's coffin. They'll still have their Story-lines...

[Bartes]

I don't expect a fresh 50 to preform as well either, but neither do I expect an instant 30% outgoing damage reduction, 30% incoming damage increase, all the while facing opponents with 30% more health. That's the issue not that many of us want the playing field completely leveled, it's that we want it to enter the a Galaxy somewhere near one of competitiveness.

 

What are you smoking? my pre-50 gear had better stats than my almost full Champ gear. More crit/surge/power/HP. Only thing I got with Champ is more expertise and bit more weapon base damage.

30% more health? Right, if people are wearing greens or lvl 40 purples (without totally paying attention to their stats and wearing gear just coz it looks cool) in lvl 50 WZs they asking to be stomped.

I can't stop myself to repeat all the time that I see lvl 50s with 11k HP in WZs all the time. My gunslinger had way more since I was lvl 43.

[Vis-Tecum]

where does it actually say, from BW that they are lowering. don't quote the post, cause I can't find it from the link

 

george snuck it in to the blog or whatever thats mostly about crafting

 

nothing other then bioware feels they need to do something about the gap and a implication that it is coming is all anybody really knows

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

end of 4th paragraph

[Greyfeld]

The funny thing for me is that my next-highest character is my level 30 Sniper, and I'm seriously considering maxing her out next, because I know that at least on the Empire side, I'll be able to complete my Daily/Weekly in a timely manner, and I can go do my Ilum daily.

[Jarfunkz]

Na, just give us blue 50 pvp gear (entry expert.), and crafted gear that's comparable to champ gear.

 

No grinding required *shock*.

 

All the kiddies who near gear progression can still try and get BM gear, whilst the rest of enjoy PVP that isn't so.... gear dependent?

 

You obviously haven't learned how to be successful.

 

You are successful by putting yourself in the best situation possible to succeed. In this instance, if you are level 49, you need to make sure you have a champion bag and that you have 1000/1000 merc/wz comms. This way, when you become level 50, you will have six bags to open.

 

Then you can do the daily quests and get two more, maybe even purchase a third for that day. That would put the total at nine bags. It is possible you may get 0 items, but chances are you will end up with two champion pieces and by the next day rolls around you would be able to purchase a low end centurian item with the comms.

 

In one week, you can be very close to fully geared just by doing dailies and +1 bag from warzones a day. This would take roughly 2-3 hours of gameplay each day.

 

 

When you , get to valor 60, you should have saved up 600/600 wz/merc comms and you will have your ear pieces and implants. This will put you very high up. There is less than 1% difference between champion and battlemaster gear, yes, for many of us it is very disheartening.

 

Me personally, I need a bm weapon and helmet and I will have a complete set... with exception for four of my bm armor which I changed the mods and when I put them back in I lost them. btw I am just shy of valor 72 and I have spent many hours in warzones. To say I do not deserve to be better, because of how much time and effort I have put into it really makes me think you are an Obama follower. One of those people who thinks everything should be given to you and nothing should be earned. Well, I work hard at video games and in real life, I deserve everything I work for.

[GyroGate]

Oh god, Bioware actually decided to listen to the slacking whiners? :/

 

Looks like WoW all over again, and I hate that game.

 

Oh well, at least I don't need gear to bash people in PvP - feels like most players in this game are clickers anyways - haha!