Deception is NOT for pvp

[StrifedRevan]

OP is a scrub

 

http://imageshack.us/f/15/500p.png/

 

me putting 3 battlemasters dps to shame (bh , rauder , op)

[Torlan_Fallstar]

Im currently doing ev with guild mates but after im done I will play a wz with my Dec spec (which i only use for pve not for pvp).

 

Hell I will even record a game and show you.

most of you will say im very good. or "oh you got 11/12 medals deception good." I will tell you what it doesnt matter because warzones arent pvp.

 

My highest medal count with Darkness is 16 Medals. I dont use warzones as a litmus test to pvp. I want to see some 1v1 matches with your Deception against players that even have a clue on how to play.

 

I stopped reading when I read about how warzones aren't pvp but 1 v 1's are. Rofl.

[Nocorras]

Lul in vent with someone watching your stream. "Wow this assassin is promoting his stream by saying he's the highest valor in the game and he's fkin bad"

 

This is why we need arena ranking systems and not lolvalor rank.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Nocorras

[ReFlexionn]

I don't think Marauders plays that differently from a Deception Assassin, but they start with more armor, so are harder to kill and actually get to stick around to do more stuff.

 

Deception's problem basically boils down to the fact that if you're dead you can't DPS, and you don't get to convince the enemy that you're not a juicy target. If someone sees the yoyo lightsaber, they're going to gun you down since you're probably the easiest person to kill in the game so there's absolutely no drawback to dropping you first.

 

they have heals and good defence buffs that lower your atk by 20% and that http://www.torhead.com/ability/6HsgY8K/saber-ward which is a better version of what sins have, catch em without these and they drop like flies

[DarthWrecks]

OP ALL THAT TRASH UV BEEN TALKING AND THATS HOW U PLAY?! OMG LOL **** I CANT EVEN BELIEVE THAT ! SO BAD SOSOSOSO BAD!

 

Dont use force lighting untill u use shock 3 times, my one pointer you get BHAH, Not even dark spec and already know how to play it better than u just from reading the skill tree's

[Sabbathius]

they have heals and good defence buffs that lower your atk by 20% and that http://www.torhead.com/ability/6HsgY8K/saber-ward which is a better version of what sins have, catch em without these and they drop like flies

 

By the same logic, catch a Sin out of stealth with defensive cooldowns down, he'll probably drop fast too. Just saying.

 

Cloak of Pain lasts up to 30 sec, 60 sec CD. Talented, your Retaliation strikes shorten the active cooldown by 3 seconds. Though most people skip that one, there's better stuff to put points into.

 

Saber Ward, yeah, 3 mins, almost nobody uses it except when doing something important.

 

You also forgot Obfuscate, 90% accuracy reduction for 6 sec, though it doesn't work on force/tech attacks I believe, and again 60 sec CD.

 

Then there's Undying Rage, 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds, 90 sec CD. Long-ish, but you only use it when you're about to die.

 

And finally, there's Force Camouflage, which talented makes you immune to all damage for 4 seconds, and on 45 sec CD.

 

Then there's the CC, like Force Choke and Intimidating Roar. And of course the silly high damage they can do. As Annihilation they do 80% of their damage with DoTs. As Carnage, Gore ability lets them ignore 100% of armor for 6 seconds, on a 15 sec CD. Etc., etc.

 

I don't know man, I don't think you can really compare a Deception Sin to a Marauder, any spec. They are WAY more survivable. The only thing Sins have better is the escape mechanism, but even that is debatable.

 

For instance, as a Mara you can do Force Camo->Fury->Predation. With Anni spec, Predation is an 80% speed boost for 10 seconds. For comparison, the scooter you get at 25 is a 90% boost. Yeah... Considering Camo allows them to take off in any direction, odds are pretty good they'll ditch you.

[Kajin-Diablo]

wow this thread AGAIN?

 

can people stop crying about the Deception tree.. if you dont like it dont play it.

i play it and love it. so does 1000's of other people.

Quit crying about how other classes out do you when you try to do something like them... obviously b/c your not them. go roll a different class ane quit posting this same trash thread.

[Deathorcake]

wow this thread AGAIN?

 

can people stop crying about the Deception tree.. if you dont like it dont play it.

i play it and love it. so does 1000's of other people.

Quit crying about how other classes out do you when you try to do something like them... obviously b/c your not them. go roll a different class ane quit posting this same trash thread.

 

What he said.

 

Sure we have less survivability, but guess what we wear light armor! Learn to force shroud and vanish....and learn to be situational. Why do people expect to be able to rush into a 1v5 fight and live through it. I WANNA HIT FOR 4K AND ONLY GET HIT FOR 1K YAY!!!

 

The only complaint I have is stealth & vanish being broken, IE doesn't always take me out of combat and can somehow get cc'd in stealth as well as randomly getting into combat while in stealth but not breaking it.

 

L2P

[Yadeniel]

wow this thread AGAIN?

 

can people stop crying about the Deception tree.. if you dont like it dont play it.

i play it and love it. so does 1000's of other people.

Quit crying about how other classes out do you when you try to do something like them... obviously b/c your not them. go roll a different class ane quit posting this same trash thread.

 

We dont care if 1000 handicapped players (kindly way to say it) have fun with it, u would have fun with it even if u had the half of points to spend on ur talent tree. We want the tree to be competitive, because we want talents trees that does work.

[Nocorras]

We dont care if 1000 handicapped players (kindly way to say it) have fun with it, u would have fun with it even if u had the half of points to spend on ur talent tree. We want the tree to be competitive, because we want talents trees that does work.

 

They work, you're just bad (kindly way to say it).

Edited February 5, 2012 by Nocorras

[krameriffic]

wow this thread AGAIN?

 

can people stop crying about the Deception tree.. if you dont like it dont play it.

i play it and love it. so does 1000's of other people.

Quit crying about how other classes out do you when you try to do something like them... obviously b/c your not them. go roll a different class ane quit posting this same trash thread.

 

Yeah, valor 80 guy who probably has 30 days of played time on that character alone, go roll a new character!

[Yadeniel]

They work, you're just bad (kindly way to say it).

 

Sure, wish i could face u in pvp

[Astarica]

By the same logic, catch a Sin out of stealth with defensive cooldowns down, he'll probably drop fast too. Just saying.

 

Cloak of Pain lasts up to 30 sec, 60 sec CD. Talented, your Retaliation strikes shorten the active cooldown by 3 seconds. Though most people skip that one, there's better stuff to put points into.

 

Saber Ward, yeah, 3 mins, almost nobody uses it except when doing something important.

 

You also forgot Obfuscate, 90% accuracy reduction for 6 sec, though it doesn't work on force/tech attacks I believe, and again 60 sec CD.

 

Then there's Undying Rage, 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds, 90 sec CD. Long-ish, but you only use it when you're about to die.

 

And finally, there's Force Camouflage, which talented makes you immune to all damage for 4 seconds, and on 45 sec CD.

 

Then there's the CC, like Force Choke and Intimidating Roar. And of course the silly high damage they can do. As Annihilation they do 80% of their damage with DoTs. As Carnage, Gore ability lets them ignore 100% of armor for 6 seconds, on a 15 sec CD. Etc., etc.

 

I don't know man, I don't think you can really compare a Deception Sin to a Marauder, any spec. They are WAY more survivable. The only thing Sins have better is the escape mechanism, but even that is debatable.

 

For instance, as a Mara you can do Force Camo->Fury->Predation. With Anni spec, Predation is an 80% speed boost for 10 seconds. For comparison, the scooter you get at 25 is a 90% boost. Yeah... Considering Camo allows them to take off in any direction, odds are pretty good they'll ditch you.

 

I don't think I've ever lost 1 on 1 to a Marauder if they didn't use Undying Rage. Here is a matchup problem since Undying Rage stops your attacks but Force Shroud, your equivalent, doesn't stop most of their attacks. Using Force Shroud will probably still let me win, but I don't think it's worth using it for a rare 1 on 1 when Force Shroud is your go-to move against classes that are much harder to fight 1 on 1 (ranged DPS usually).

 

But in general Force Shroud is much, much stronger than Undying Rage since it has no health costs and faster refresh. It just happens in this matchup FS doesn't completely destroy the opposition like it usually does.

 

Obfuscate, like Saber Ward, doesn't really work on anyone who knows what they're doing because they should be using mostly Force based attacks when you're attempting to finish someone off. I supposed you can use those attacks immediately but then you can say just Whirlwind them until it wears off and there's too much 'what if' factor there. Neither Saber Ward nor Obfuscate will save you when you're down to 30% because you'll be facing mostly Force based attacks at that point.

 

I thought Force Camo is just vanish, so yeah they're immune to all damage if they're also not doing any damage.

 

Undying Rage, unlike Force Shroud, does not protect you from CC. If you already have Wither on you, you can still be kited during that 5 seconds of invulnerability. You can still be stunned/incapaciated during that period too and thus negating the advantage. It's a difficult move to deal with, but unlike Force Shroud, it is possible to counter it, while Force Shroud literally has no counters.

[Murderous]

Darkness sins fall into the same category as those people who thought riftblade/reaver was a viable spec in rift and who play as prot pvp in WoW.

 

It's a gimmick 1v1 spec that can basically only do 1 thing: force non healing classes with little or already used cd's into a 1v1 in some dank corner and slowly kill them. Sure, your numbers may look good in a warzone because increased survivability, great sin cooldowns, and the fact that any players who know what they're doing effectively ignore you till the rest of your team is dead means that ... hey, you rarely die.

 

The problem is that once you finish being impressed with yourself and your medal count, you realize that you offer very little to a cohesive team unless you're running a huttball or something (and, lets be honest, any sin can slap on dark charge, get past the first flame jet, and be home free for an unstoppable score so you don't really have a monopoly on that faction of play either). Low dps from darkness specs results in an inablility to kill any healer that knows what they're doing and a similar inability to clear out cap nodes and doors fast enough to guarantee a good cap/plant.

 

Deception is the way to go because it HAS the burst and the lockdown to take down healers, which really are the linchpin of any team that isn't just a faceroll victory. You have amazing survivability in the form of cooldowns, and can basically survive or escape any situation as long as you use your skills wisely.

 

Bottom line is that if you're having trouble being successful as deception, you probably just don't know how to fully utilize the tools of both the spec and class in general since you've been running around as a tank being healbotted for so long all you know how to do now is spike thrash thrash shock.

 

The key to successful deception play is not spamming your abilities, but timing your burst with a string of control to guarantee a kill. You're not an operative, so you don't open with burst. Use voltaic slash and your standard maul proc strikes until you force a heal, lock them out with jolt, pop cd's and unload your discharge and shock for burst (with cd's you should be able to shock for about 5k, possible chain shock for about 2k, and then discharge for about 5k... giving you a possible good 12k dmg in 2 gcd's that autocrit with recklessness), follow with a low slash to allow for another maul, electrocute into an asassinate. If they're somehow still alive you can vanish into a spike or even vanish into a sap to fill out their resolve bar and then finish them off with another maul or whatever (your jolt will be back up by this time also). The strength of our spec is that our lockdown skills generate very little resolve, allowing us to lock down for longer durrations than any other class in the game. People just have to realize that we're not pre-nerf operatives and we don't take someone from 100-0 in a burst (unless they're undergeared). We pressure into a position where we can lockdown and burst from, say.. 70-0 or 60-0.

 

 

Well said. As much as I hate to say it, this is a L2P your class issue.

[insendial]

Well said. As much as I hate to say it, this is a L2P your class issue.

 

Quoted for Truth.

[Shalashasa]

If your fighting a Deception Assassin. How do you kill him? I think thats the question anyone who swears by the spec needs to ask themselves.

 

What other attack will the Deception Assassin do to kill you besides

vs, vs, shock, and discharge?

 

Also How many vs, vs, shock does it take to take down an enemy?

 

How Many seconds would you say it takes for an average class to take you down while they are hitting you?

 

Answer these questions. Then you will understand Deception.

[Karandor]

My problem with full deception is the problems it has with force in pro-longed fights. I'm actually a darkness/deception spec that maximizes force regen to allow for burst damage with maul (yep, that's right, it works surprisingly well) while still being able to guard an ally.

 

 

If you take a survivor's set, throw in the mods from the caster helm (+crit/surge) you can have an incredible DPS set with 20s spike (invaluable) and +5% damage when guarding an ally. Guard and taunt are our 2 best tools in PvP.

 

 

Spamming maul is a crazy idea and I tried it on a lark but after I 4-shot a couple healers I was converted. You can also play stupid in this spec and just do mediocre damage while staying high force and getting procs built up and then blow blackout +adrenal + relic + electrocute and just blow someone up. The advantage is after a burst and all CDs are down you still have +30% force regen.

 

 

I'm going to try full deception this week to compare it since I have good enough gear to not be insta-gibbed (full champ, DPS set and tank set). I'll be back to compare the burst damage to see whether the loss in utility is made up for by even higher burst.

[insendial]

My problem with full deception is the problems it has with force in pro-longed fights. I'm actually a darkness/deception spec that maximizes force regen to allow for burst damage with maul (yep, that's right, it works surprisingly well) while still being able to guard an ally.

 

 

If you take a survivor's set, throw in the mods from the caster helm (+crit/surge) you can have an incredible DPS set with 20s spike (invaluable) and +5% damage when guarding an ally. Guard and taunt are our 2 best tools in PvP.

 

 

Spamming maul is a crazy idea and I tried it on a lark but after I 4-shot a couple healers I was converted. You can also play stupid in this spec and just do mediocre damage while staying high force and getting procs built up and then blow blackout +adrenal + relic + electrocute and just blow someone up. The advantage is after a burst and all CDs are down you still have +30% force regen.

 

 

I'm going to try full deception this week to compare it since I have good enough gear to not be insta-gibbed (full champ, DPS set and tank set). I'll be back to compare the burst damage to see whether the loss in utility is made up for by even higher burst.

 

Deception does have some utility of its own, mind ye. It is just more offensive. A 4 second blind on a 15s cooldown and a permanent snare (Force Slow on a 6 second CD w/ 12s duration).

[Cowflab]

If your fighting a Deception Assassin. How do you kill him? I think thats the question anyone who swears by the spec needs to ask themselves.

 

What other attack will the Deception Assassin do to kill you besides

vs, vs, shock, and discharge?

 

Also How many vs, vs, shock does it take to take down an enemy?

 

How Many seconds would you say it takes for an average class to take you down while they are hitting you?

 

Answer these questions. Then you will understand Deception.

 

You're still complaining??? Ffs man! Every single class has a predictable dps rotation, its not exclusive to deception. The fact that you choose to go the vanilla route and not mix it up is once again a PEBKAC issue.

[Crueger]

Deception is strong in the hands of a capable player, and is by no means underpowered. If you have a healer on your team in a warzone you can easily avoid dying altogether for the duration of a wz and do very well (top-ish damage, 9-10 medals etc.) And a deception assassin can beat most classes in 1v1. What more could you want from 1 specc?

[ManuVo]

Yeah, I honestly have no idea what your talking about saying Deception is useless. I do amazing with it, maybe it's just my play style, but I deal a great amount of damage and have less than 2 deaths every warzone...

[Acindo]

Works fine for me.

[Shalashasa]

I used to believe Deception was good for pvp until I was level 50 and rank 62'ish. Everyone that thinks Deception is 100% good for pvp and is currently using a 31deception build please say so now.

 

Also give these three info:

Server:

Character Name:

Valor Rank/Character level:

 

Im very interested in finding out some demographics for opinions

Edited February 7, 2012 by Shalashasa

[golfwang]

I used to believe Deception was good for pvp until I was level 50 and rank 62'ish. Everyone that thinks Deception is 100% good for pvp and is currently using a 31deception build please say so now.

 

Also give these three info:

Server:

Character Name:

Valor Rank/Character level:

 

Im very interested in finding out some demographics for opinions

 

Valor rank 62 too, i don't think deception is very good either. Too frail and one dimensional. The talents in Deception really suck too, so much garbage no good player would ever take just wasting space in that tree.

 

It might shine in a premade when you're getting heals, but solo? it's a headache.

 

Also, our level 50 ability is *********** terrible.

[kckkryptonite]

It's actually hilarious that a Kin/any hybrid spec is superior in nearly every way to any deep Inf spec. The only thing you'd miss from the deep Inf tree is Low Slash, but Containment, Force Strike, Force Pull, Stasis >>> Low Slash. The Exit Strategy procs that take forever and a day to build up is put to shame by Hidden Strike/Acid Blade. The deep Infil tree is dwarfed by hybrids; thats why hybrids are getting nerfed. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't played anything but a deep Inf spec.

 

Server: Dark Reaper

Character Name: Kckkryptonite

Valor Rank/Character level: 64

Edited February 7, 2012 by kckkryptonite