What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Sky_walkerPL]

Having gear is fine. However, gear difference should only be around 7-8% maximum difference. As of right now, the 15/15/15 expertise advantage is way to much.

I'd move even towards 5%.

But yea - the difference from PvP gear need to go down definitely.

 

I want PvP based on SKILL not TIME taken into playing it.

And if you want more new people play PvP in MMO - than obviously you'd like to see this as well.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[MandoArc]

It is because geared players already got their epix by ingame mail directly from BW in the very moment they dinged 50.

 

EZ PZ.

 

No they did not put you know what they did got

 

A NO BRACKET PVP GAME WHERE THEY CAN FIGHT PLAYERS LOWER THEN THEM AND WENT THEY GOT THERE 2 CHAMP PIECE FIGHT PLAYER WHO DID NOT HAVE IT

 

SO WHAT THEY GOT IS A NO BRACKET BASE PVP AND EASY MODE CHAMPION GEAR WHERE NEW LEVEL

50's get a level 50 bracket full whit champ and battlemaster players you know THE ONES WHO GOT THERE GEAR ON EASY MODE NO BRACKET PVP

[peroxsigh]

I'm pretty sure having expertise is the same as not having expertise.

 

When everyone is geared, what's the complaint then?

[Tyranoc]

I'm pretty sure having expertise is the same as not having expertise.

 

When everyone is geared, what's the complaint then?

 

The complaint is that there will always be someone without the best gear. And then will continue to cry like the noobs on here continue to do until they get their own way or get battlemaster.

 

And when they get battlemaster gear there will either be some other new set out that they havent got yet, or they will still get trounced like the noobs they are and then continue to cry some more.

 

Its the circle of MMO life/noob-dom.

[peroxsigh]

No they did not put you know what they did got

 

A NO BRACKET PVP GAME WHERE THEY CAN FIGHT PLAYERS LOWER THEN THEM AND WENT THEY GOT THERE 2 CHAMP PIECE FIGHT PLAYER WHO DID NOT HAVE IT

 

SO WHAT THEY GOT IS A NO BRACKET BASE PVP AND EASY MODE CHAMPION GEAR WHERE NEW LEVEL

50's get a level 50 bracket full whit champ and battlemaster players you know THE ONES WHO GOT THERE GEAR ON EASY MODE NO BRACKET PVP

 

Another misinformed person ^

 

You know.. I had my 50 sent for a month and STILL don't have a full champ set, however, I did manage to fill the missing spots in with Cent gear.

 

The funny thing about this was, I worried I'd be too under geared for a while with my consular. Boy, was I wrong.

 

1k wz 1k merc commendations when I dinged 50.

 

thats 6 bags right there, I picked up 4 pieces of gear on the first day.

I grabbed both weeklys/dailys for another 8 bags and made enough commendations for another 3 during the daily win farm. Thats 17 bags in 2 days, and I was awarded a peice of gear in 11 of them.

 

In short, I've opened over 50 bags in my sent and STILL haven't gotten a full set yet. You guys seem to forget how this pvp gear system works. Some people are far less fortunate than others.

[Formulka]

PVP will always be gear based more or less, as long as you can get better gear than the next guy. Being it from "bags" or operations.

[MightyHalo]

So you are rolling level 15s in a 10-49 bracket with your level/ability advantage yet whining about being a fresh 50.

 

lol

[Tyranoc]

Another misinformed person ^

 

You know.. I had my 50 sent for a month and STILL don't have a full champ set, however, I did manage to fill the missing spots in with Cent gear.

 

The funny thing about this was, I worried I'd be too under geared for a while with my consular. Boy, was I wrong.

 

1k wz 1k merc commendations when I dinged 50.

 

thats 6 bags right there, I picked up 4 pieces of gear on the first day.

I grabbed both weeklys/dailys for another 8 bags and made enough commendations for another 3 during the daily win farm. Thats 17 bags in 2 days, and I was awarded a peice of gear in 11 of them.

 

In short, I've opened over 50 bags in my sent and STILL haven't gotten a full set yet. You guys seem to forget how this pvp gear system works. Some people are far less fortunate than others.

 

Dude im about to hit valor 60 and i still dont have full champ yet. I could afford full sent 2 times over with ease. I have had so many duplicates of champ gear its not funny. Over my 2 weeks of christmas holidays i was farming 4 - 6 bags a day, plus the 2 i got for my dailies, and then the 6 i'd get for weeklies... that was before christmas/new years.

I now open 2 - 4 bags a day (including my dailies) and im sitll waiting for my boots and bracers....

 

 

BUT WAIT!!!!

 

You and I had it all just handed to us...

[Llann]

MMO PvP is an utter joke. Always has been. =/

 

The gear grind is certainly one part of that, but don't suppose that imposing a solution to that will somehow solve everything.

 

Besides, I don't there was anyone who'd played WarHammer Online who didn't /facepalm when they saw Mythic was coming on board to do the PvP. =(

[zrvs]

ok theres no way swtor is going to be an E-sport with pvp like this lol. maybe a long ways down the road, but it's so far down the road that i dont even see the light.

[Conchobar]

Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

 

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

 

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?

 

claimable keeps and towers that you can display your guild heraldry from.

 

money. PvP kills should always be worth good money.

 

titles

 

you get the picture.

[Darklyn]

Oh I'm sorry, you thought this was an FPS game. See in MMO's there is this thing called progression. I know this is a foreign concept to you but it is what every MMO is based on.

 

Yes, so why not have progression for the PVE side and score boards for the PvP side. Atm progression or not, all the PvP at 50 is, is a bunch of guild premades all with Battlemaster / champ gear ****** under geared random players. Who are a mix of noobs and guys who don't wanna listen to whiny elitist players on a vent channel. Which is the category I fall into.

 

If the current top PvP'ers had any honor or were really any good, they would be for a score / ranking system, where you get gear for looks not incredible stat bonuses to make killing someone without that benefit easy. Where is the fun in 8 geared guys with 2x health, 2x heals, 2x expertise ****** some noobs unless they are just trolls and cowards.

 

Think about it.

[Dogfatherxx]

The 10-49 bracket teaches us that Sorc/Sages are considered OP since they are well over half of these new rerolls. I am not saying they are OP, but most people must think they are since they are by far the most common advanced classes I see in the lower bracket.

[Vember]

I'm honestly surprised BW went this route, considering the epic fail pvp gear created in Rift as recently as a few months before the launch of Swtor. Why do they think everybody jumped ship to come here? Do devs not pay attention to the mistakes of their competitors?

[Sykomyke]

1-49 better? LOL That's rich. In 1-49 I die if anyone so much as sneezes at me. And I'm a Powertech.

 

On my level 50. I can actually survive for a few second so that way PvP is more meaningful then "lol I can burst you down in 2 seconds flat".

[Dharagada]

While I'm not going to argue against the fact that PVP gear is a bit overboard, trying to claim that the level 1-49 bracket is better "balanced" is just silly.

 

The level 49 has a clear advantage over the level 20 even with bolster in place.

[Torleen]

Yes, so why not have progression for the PVE side and score boards for the PvP side. Atm progression or not, all the PvP at 50 is, is a bunch of guild premades all with Battlemaster / champ gear ****** under geared random players. Who are a mix of noobs and guys who don't wanna listen to whiny elitist players on a vent channel. Which is the category I fall into.

 

If the current top PvP'ers had any honor or were really any good, they would be for a score / ranking system, where you get gear for looks not incredible stat bonuses to make killing someone without that benefit easy. Where is the fun in 8 geared guys with 2x health, 2x heals, 2x expertise ****** some noobs unless they are just trolls and cowards.

 

Think about it.

 

I have been PVPing for around 14 years. And I hate the whiny elitist gamers more then anyone. What's worse is they are rarely even any good.

[Fierystrike]

all i have read from these forums about all the other mmos is that the gear disnt

matter but skills(actual skills not a persons skill but the characters) and the longer you played the better they got, which is the same thing we have now in a different manor and you guys cry

 

just because you dont like the system doesnt meen others dont and right now its their time, and im sure there where people who hated those games so please stop making post about how bad you are and you hate having to grind gear which is all an mmo is, grinding gear, what route you take is up to you

 

a system where you can loot the corpse does not work in a pve game

[Torleen]

Plenty?

 

Lets see em then.

 

And i think a number of people, including msyelf, have thoroughly debunked the "massive gear gap" in this thread with stats, math and everything.

 

Keep on trollin, trollin, e'ery day.

 

You made an attempt to do so. I don't feel you debunked anything. The expiriences of people getting thrashed by people who have more gear then them already prove this is not the case. Bioware also recognizes the problem. And they have access to the numbers more then you or I.

 

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

Regards

Georg

 

/thread

[Jedimexi]

11-49 PvP is just a lot of fun. It doesn't involve a huge grind, it is just there to allow you to experience PvP without needing to stress about gear. And while 11 may be slightly too low, it can still be a pleasant change and you even though you lack abilities you still feel more of a match to opponents than you do as a fresh 50 with no gear.

 

The thing is though you NEED rewards for playing the game, but in PvP terms these rewards should not be gear. PvP should be about class knowledge, skill and opponent wekness exploitation NOT just about who has more time to grind gear.

 

There needs to be ways of separating out players and rewarding them for their efforts but having it purely based on gear isn't what you want as it just removes all fun from the game for those without the gear and only keep the saddo's at maximum gear happy if they enjoy beatign down on people who can't fight back since i'm fairly sure most skilled players would prefer to have some competition than just farm noobies.

 

At least, if nothign else, create bands of competition to stop the very best PvP geared players getting pitted against those who dinged 50 an hour ago and are essentiall Bantha Fodder to them.

[Torleen]

It tells us that putting fresh-faced 50s with zero access to beginner PVP gear is retarded, and that people either can't (let's be honest, some can't handle it) or won't put up with it and would rather roll an alt than stick out one of the most top-heavy, one-sided PvP gear grinds in recent MMO history.

If you weren't here for early access and/or didn't rush to 50, you can't compete. It will take a casual player (but honestly who cares about 85+% of the playerbase right) months to get gear, especially considering the 3-win really meaning 7-10 wins.

 

*standing ovation*

 

Don't worry, the solution is coming.

 

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

Regards

Georg

[Noctournys]

Having gear is fine. However, gear difference should only be around 7-8% maximum difference. As of right now, the 15/15/15 expertise advantage is way to much.

 

It doesn't work out that way in the PvE vs PvP gear sets.

 

Rakata (same iLevel as BM) actually has substantially higher base stats, rendering the expertise almost entirely moot.

 

There's a thread (ill dig up a link) that another guy started and i contributed to, about how you can step into level 50 and in about six hours be within 2k HP of a battlemaster with better dps or tanking stats.

 

The gear gap isnt what it is made out to be. People need to stop trying to jump straight into PvP from their leveling greens. It doesnt take long.. just a few hours.

[Torleen]

I see nothing that says they disagree with my math - merely that they feel the current 10%ish is too much.

 

That's their call, not mine.

 

edit: i'd also guess they have a better metric for how many people put zero research into gear and rolled into PvP at 50 in their questing greens like idiots, when with about six-eight hours of total effort over about six days they could have rolled into PvP in full level 50/51 purps.

 

UO - no

EVE - dear god hell no

GW2 - not released and appears to be taking every possible design cue from That Other MMO.

 

so.. yeah. AC1... SWG (class didnt mean anything? are you.. suffering from some kind of memory loss?) and.. GW... and a bunch of initials that mean nothing because they are so obscure i cant even tell what you're talking about.

 

Wow. big list.

 

Class meant something. Gear was a tweak, not an "I-WIN!". And the classes meaning something was kind of irrelevant considering anyone could take whatever they wanted from whatever class they wanted. And even when we had "Alpha" class in the Jedi it still did not mean you were not going to die.

 

And no, GW2 is still going to have "PVP" characters that you can create and compete with with other people who can also pick whatever gear they want.

[Noctournys]

*standing ovation*

 

Don't worry, the solution is coming.

 

You should read further.

 

The solution is just more gear badges int he champ bags.

 

thats it.

 

Go to Ilum and Belsavis. Do your dalies for two days.

 

Step into PvP in full level 51 purples (better than the starter/centurion PvP gear).

 

Time invested:

 

six hours.

 

(and you can do it pre-50)

Edited February 6, 2012 by Noctournys

[Torleen]

Breaking news!!

 

MMO existed before WoW!! How shocking!!!

 

Seriously lots of people here are giving dumb reason for pvp gear and i bet that most of them who call themselve long time MMO player for playing wow think they're the real deal...

 

here to break it to you MMO babies:

 

1. WoW putted the first gear for pvp system and it ruined any pvp that followed it because people wants only shinny loots now. A system like this reward time and not skill its useless and it just show that someone is more no life than you gratz!

 

2. People that say well then hardcore PVE player would destroy the other... If they take out pvp gear you dont let pve player with an advantage you make like DAoC and have each stats a cap (so like aim/cunning cap at 1000) and make the pve item like the pvp item are now which would turn like more damage, resistance and heal in PVE situation problem solved!! ZOMG so hard to do!

 

It was a bad attempt to introduce the carrot on the stick element to something that should of never been about gear in the first place. HOURS spent in PVP pre-PVP stat gear prove that it was not nessacary. It is a marketing/business decision they make that they hope will keep people coming back. This is not diablo 2.

 

When new gear comes out say every six months or something and it is entertaining to get it is not a big deal. But it's about the advantage it gives. I should not auto-lose just because someone has that gear. And getting gear should not be a requirement to not simply face plant every time I got into a WZ.