Krondorf Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well he admitted he would just try to find some other exploit. Yet he seems to be silly enough to tell us that we are the ones who feel entitled. It's so ridiculous to see some of these people try to make it look like they are "hardcore" for needing training wheels. Yeah I know what you mean. Dont forget, he is the "internet soldier" ... the one and only. I dont want to waste my time conversing with him anymore. I just dont have time for immature, rude and clueless adolescents. Anyways great post you have here Torleen. Appreciate the time and effort you've put in this. And we share a common interest in PvP where skills comes first. Unlike wannabe pvpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddul Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The biggest problem with pvp gear at 50 is Expertise and how it functions. If two fresh 50s duel, they are roughly on par with each other in terms of gear. If two Battlemasters duel, they are roughly on par wiith each other in terms of gear. If a Battlemaster and a fresh 50 duel, the Battlemaster is not only ~35 item levels ahead of the fresh 50, he also gains an absurd percentage modifier in the form of Expertise. Currently, Expertise appears on PvP gear almost solely as a function of ilevel, and isn't actually budgeted, but it has more than twice the impact as any other secondary stat in terms of disparities in damage done/taken, and it further increases healing efficiency, which is very relevant a lot of the time. So if a fresh 50 is fighting at 100%, against an equally skilled person in full Battlemaster, the Battlemaster isn't fighting at 130%, but at 130% x 1.5 or so. It's similar to a level 30 taking on a level 40 outside of a Warzone. Say what you want about WoW, but they tinkered with Resilience so much because it's a hard thing to balance, and BW took all that tinkering, looked at it, and said "Nah, let's just have it be like 3x better. That seems good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigabolt Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 How hard is it to get 'comparable' gear when you hit 50? is it really that hard? if so i could agree that they make 'decent' gear (that would give a fighting chance) more readily available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nope. I don't want gear to matter. Player vs Player. Not gear vs. gear. Come on, if you are a PVPer you don't need the crutch. Don't hide behind your gear. well here's an idea. get the gear so you're on the same level then it is player vs player. the difference between BM and Champ gear isn't that big at all to complain so go and do like the rest of us and get your gear and it will still be player vs player. A reward for a time investment isn't a crutch. Make pve fights easier so i can do nightmare modes when i first ding 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroGate Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Trust me, if there where no gear to blame - most people would start blaming other things, like class imbalance, adrenals / stims, latency etc etc etc. Bad players will always be bad, no matter how easy the devs make it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The 1-49 bracket teaches us that talents are real important to PvP. It also teaches us that many players AFK, quit, have tantrums, have no clue how to complete war zone objectives, heal, or bother to play their class in a PvP style. There are then morons who come on these forums or complain to Bioware customer support that they want this for Lvl 50 PvP. Edited February 7, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomguardian Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Character progression in an MMO? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS? no THIS IS SPARTA!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rbleezy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Give up no one cares that you dont have free time you want something, you put in the time. Typical people always wanting to be equal to someone who has spent more time effort for the things they have. This goes for real life not just a MMO which your ************ about dont play pvp if you dont like it. If you do grind the gear like everyone else did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramrodiger Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd be all for them turning gear into a minor PvP boon versus a major one. The battlegrounds are fun enough to keep people playing them. Especially huttball. Skill vs gear is what were looking for. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This thread is actually useless for an entirely different reason. BW is about to introduce entry level PVP gear to fresh 50's in the next patch. Gear gap be damned. I have mentioned this many times. But the crying toddlers dont listen. They want BM gear now. Its not fair that others have it after being 50 for weeks and they just hitting 50 dont have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Trust me, if there where no gear to blame - most people would start blaming other things, like class imbalance, adrenals / stims, latency etc etc etc. Bad players will always be bad, no matter how easy the devs make it for them. Exactly. I point this out, but they constantly scream and stomp their feet refusing to believe its them. They can't possibly be bad, everyone else is cheating!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Give up no one cares that you dont have free time you want something, you put in the time. Typical people always wanting to be equal to someone who has spent more time effort for the things they have. This goes for real life not just a MMO which your ************ about dont play pvp if you dont like it. If you do grind the gear like everyone else did. I agree. Rather than having tantrums like the children they are and demanding BW gives them things they dont deserve they should just quit and wait for GW2... Then we can listen to them whinge about that game when its released as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranoc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yeah I know what you mean. Dont forget, he is the "internet soldier" ... the one and only. I dont want to waste my time conversing with him anymore. I just dont have time for immature, rude and clueless adolescents. Anyways great post you have here Torleen. Appreciate the time and effort you've put in this. And we share a common interest in PvP where skills comes first. Unlike wannabe pvpers. Its not an exploit. Its the game mechanics. Nor did I say I would use exploits. I simply said if you get rid of expertise and/or PvP armour people like myself will use Rakata. You would then whingge about that because you didnt have that, and its was leaving you butt hurt... Then you'd want BW to give you Rakata or get rid of it, in which case we would find some other armour set or trinket to give us an advantage over the skilless players like yourself. Thats not exploiting its using the gear available to maximise potential. Optimisation! No hacks. No Cheats. No exploits. The items exist in game and can be used in game. Its smart people out smarting dumb people by using the best gear they can find for advantage over the competition... Welcome to survival of the fittest!!!! You obviously don't make the cut. Hence the crying. The two of you just cant accept the fact that you can't play. Hence you not having gear. Everyone here is admitting how easy it is to get it. So use your "skills" to get it already and stop crying! Or better yet cancel your subscription and go back to your "real pvp" games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It means that level 40+ love to faceroll the 10-49 bracket, but when they hit 50 with level 40 pvp gear they cry like babies when they don't continue to faceroll the noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharim Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 With all the complaining about gear being such a huge factor, I was a little intimidated when I hit 50 last week. The posts here led me to believe that I was going to be getting destroyed without any chance once I got into the level 50 bracket. One week later, there are very few people I square off with 1v1 that I expect to lose against, and it's rare for me to be lower than #2 on my team in DPS. You can blame gear all you want, but I had no problem without it, and it's come a lot faster than I expected. These forums tend to make things out to be a lot worse than they really are. So much propaganda from bad players blaming the game for their own poor performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmashadows Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd love to see a video of the OP in pvp.. need something to laugh at today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxiewuxie Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 there is abit more i can say to these self titled "skillful" pve geared "casual" players, to actually come on a forum and ask for a nerf to expertise means that you have a difficult time competing with your "unskilled" bm/champ geared players which then discourages you from trying to get pvp gear at all and rerolling another toon lol. tbh if you are as good as you think you are, you would be competing, acquiring champ gear slowly but most importantly you would be having fun and not whining. i understand the mentality as I am a casual player too, just like any game you might play this game a few hours a week and while lvling up in greens/oranges you owned wz at the 10-49 bracket and even before that you owning teams with random lvl 50s. This might have given you a false sense of superiority. but the reality is that 50 pvp against top geared randoms in ilum let alone top tier premades in wz is a totally different kettle of fish. But unlike your so-called "unskilled", "valor trading" battlemaster there is still a chance for you to improve ur so called skills , first thing is to break down that hubris and admit that you are not as good at this game as you thought you were and that is the reason why you are always getting roflstomped by "unskilled" geared 50s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It means that level 40+ love to faceroll the 10-49 bracket, but when they hit 50 with level 40 pvp gear they cry like babies when they don't continue to faceroll the noobs. Seriously, freshmen year in college is harder then senior year in high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImURmaster Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Wow, a huge thread about "skilled" players defending their need for an advantage to beat "unskilled" players. Derp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulcheg Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hmm, do you have a wife? A gf? A social life, with real living and breathing friends? Adults have jobs, its what we do, we work, you're not special. I prefer to not spend all of my free time playing a game, and if I did I would want it to be by choice, not because I'm forced to do so to compete. Gaming shouldnt be a 2nd job. I'm a gamer at heart, its something I love to do, but I also like to spend time with the gf and spend time with my friends, and do other things that don't involve sitting in front of a computer, but I'm a competitive person and like to be good at what I do, but I don't have time for a 2nd job on top of my other obligations...especially if I'm not getting paid haha. . Yes, i have a gf, a job, and a weekly drinking with friends in pub. 3 hours. Is this really SO many? How much you want to play per day and want every of end-game content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohawksinspace Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There are other ways to get people to pvp other than giving them more advantages at pvp for doing it. Most mmo devs just don't care/try because they like pve content more, it allows them to be more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcadesSabboth Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I made it through about 7 pages of this thread and then I couldn't take it anymore. When will people, the OP included, learn that surest way to build a longer term MMO is to create incentive to keep grinding. Whether you think the grind should exist and whether you think the grind is enjoyable is irrelevant in the eyes of the publisher. As long as there is a purpose to the grind, people will continue paying to play and working towards a goal and that is how MMOs make their money. If you want to play a game with pre-generated 100% equal characters that's perfectly fine. But there's a reason why World of Warcraft is a gaming legend and Guild Wars isn't. One was sustainable for 7 years (and going) because of the many hamster wheels laid out for the playerbase. Who knows why people do what they do. But its the purpose of the grind that keeps going them, not the fun of the grind. Then, once they reach the end, they enjoy it for awhile and go looking for the next goal/grind/purpose. Most MMO players, by their nature, need goals to achieve. Keep shouting at the wind and suggesting changes which would amount to an overhaul of the MMO genre. I'm sure someone will do something about it....some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrHalux Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You know it's sorta silly, if the PvP in a game was enjoyable you wouldn't need an "incentive to keep playing". Having an incentive such as the gear system that swtor relies so heavily on to keep us playing just highlights how terrible the PvP mechanics are. The good PvP mechanics=good incentive to keep skilled players coming back for more Bad PvP mechanics= build in an incentive since there is not one innately inherent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirgiI Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I made it through about 7 pages of this thread and then I couldn't take it anymore. When will people, the OP included, learn that surest way to build a longer term MMO is to create incentive to keep grinding. Whether you think the grind should exist and whether you think the grind is enjoyable is irrelevant in the eyes of the publisher. As long as there is a purpose to the grind, people will continue paying to play and working towards a goal and that is how MMOs make their money. If you want to play a game with pre-generated 100% equal characters that's perfectly fine. But there's a reason why World of Warcraft is a gaming legend and Guild Wars isn't. One was sustainable for 7 years (and going) because of the many hamster wheels laid out for the playerbase. Who knows why people do what they do. But its the purpose of the grind that keeps going them, not the fun of the grind. Then, once they reach the end, they enjoy it for awhile and go looking for the next goal/grind/purpose. Most MMO players, by their nature, need goals to achieve. Keep shouting at the wind and suggesting changes which would amount to an overhaul of the MMO genre. I'm sure someone will do something about it....some day. Oh hai DAoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calei Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Guild Wars 2 is on its way this year. People who need incentives to grind for gear to give them a reason to PVP are beyond hope I think. Just let them run on thier hamster wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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