yapigia Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 worse then that: Joining a losing wz already in progress because someone leaves it. Waste of my time. + 1 !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussorgsky Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Would you blame someone for leaving a WZ if they were added to a team losing 5-0 with 2 minutes left? The best is when you leave the WZ to re-queue for another one only to be added back to the same crappy WZ team over and over and over. I left the WZ each time this happened. it was good times. That's the thing, you can't blame them. But if there were a deserter debuff, you would seldom find yourself in a 0-5 wz because people wouldn't leave in the first place. It ruins Huttball especially, at least on my server, which has (shocker) a heavy Imp population imbalance. People are so sick of losing Huttball, that when the first team scores, you can almost guarantee 2 or 3 people leave. In Huttball, playing 8v5 even for a few minutes means the scoring team will almost always score again within seconds -- even if it COULD have been close, had people not bailed. Then more people drop, and so on and so forth until it's 5-0. Then the losing team gets farmed for 10 minutes as people come in and drop out, come in and drop out. This literally describes maybe 50% of the Huttball matches on my server. I don't mind losing a lot, but I literally can't even attempt to play because so many people are dropping and coming in, there's only 3 or 4 people on my team actually out there getting murdered by 8. It's not fun. When you queue for a Warzone, it's like queueing for a League of Legends game. You're obligated to spend 20 minutes or so fighting the good fight. If you get sucky teammates, tough *****. They're people too. If you can't stand it so much you drop out every time you see a new 50 on your WZ team, queue with a group or don't queue at all. You dropping out ruins the game experience for everyone. Of course, if it's allowed, people are going to do it. So I blame BioWare...please please please add a deserter debuff. Edited February 1, 2012 by Mussorgsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhazesx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have no interest in being farmed by a premade until times runs out after they score 5 in less than 2 minutes. I'm not talking about garbage premades that can be beaten with 2 juggs leapfrogging, I mean the ones that que for 7 hours a day, with 3 tanks and 3 healers. I have no problem getting my *** kicked but I'm not going to sit there and let them urinate on me 10 minutes to boost their epeen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 They're selfish. They leave, requeue, and get with a group that has a better chance of (carrying them to a win) winning. They don't care about their team that is now defending in Voidstar with 6 or 7 people and will now lose because of them. I have been in groups with people yelling and screaming and having no idea what they're talking about. They will scream "Attack Right" and expect people to teleport there and be there immediately. They leave and just blame everyone else for the losses, in their deluded brains they are without flaw. I would rather play with 10K HP people who don't know there is a pass button then these people. There is hope for the gimp, the selfish will always be selfish. everyone is selfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehme Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Unbelievable Its a video game. unbelievable! Some of us have a family and a job thus we have limited time. Not all of us live in our parents basement and play video games from sun up till sun down all day every day. noob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstb Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) You also have to consider that there comes a point in any match where it is mathematically impossible to win. For example: It take 8 seconds to arm a bomb on voidstar, and 20 seconds for it to go off. So if your team is stuck attacking the opening doors, and there is less than 100 seconds left, there is no possible way to win. Bear in mind that 100 seconds is pretty generous because it doesnt even account for travel time between doors. On Alderaan civil war, at the point when the enemy team has more than half the tickets your team does, your team cannot win unless you 3 cap for some portion of time. In my opinion both of these are acceptable times to leave a match in progress. Well it depends how far your enemy gets / will get in their turn. If you know that already fair point, otherwise why give up? In general though, thought this was supposed to be a social game. What is social about me me me me me me me me me me? Yeah its partly BW fault for designing the system for valor 60+ to be about win only, but in the main this is about selfishness, pure and simple. I can do better for ME by leaving this group of scrubs behind. One day those scrubs / their alt's may well be better than you and will be leaving when they join in with you. Presumably the current quitters won't have a problem with that, even if it costs them their precious wins. And as for the comment - why should I care about randoms, I didnt choose them - well actually you did, when you queued solo. Dont like it find a premade / friends. The randoms didnt choose you either by your logic, so why are you more important than them? because you think your better? Edited February 1, 2012 by bstb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I stay simply because the rewards for losing are close enough to winning that my time doesn't feel wasted unless we're simply embarrassing ourselves, which is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrestrial Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Is it a surprise? All of the advanced loot in pvp (read: Battlemaster) requires WINS. Not play. WINS. If you have a finite amount of time, no need for valor, and a need to win games that last on average between 10 and 15 minutes, why would you stay in a losing game? Answer: you wouldn't. The system starts out with gearing through bags acquired through comms. Arguably a bad system, but at least you acquire from wins and losses. And yes, at Battlemaster level, you should only acquire gear by winning games, again arguably but I tend to support this. So you can't blame anyone and I don't think anyone supports deserter debuffs precisely because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 everyone is selfish This is un-true. Anyone who have played in a raiding guild that actually progressed with a "guild first" mentality should not fit this description. Most of the population is however selfish, but it does NOT apply to all. I do agree with a previous post where the daily could be "complete 5 warzones" where being part of the final box score awarded you with 1 credit and being part of the winning team provided 1 more. That would at least reduce the win hoppers and provide a bit of stability to the ops group from start to finish. It won't however stop the people who leave a zone before it begins because they don't like the zone but this is at least a lot less hard to overcome than someone leaving halfway through a battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehme Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have no interest in being farmed by a premade until times runs out after they score 5 in less than 2 minutes. I'm not talking about garbage premades that can be beaten with 2 juggs leapfrogging, I mean the ones that que for 7 hours a day, with 3 tanks and 3 healers. I have no problem getting my *** kicked but I'm not going to sit there and let them urinate on me 10 minutes to boost their epeen. Not really. I need to farm you for medals first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalmac Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Guys use your brains for a second and think "Why are people leaving the WZ?" Answer is that what is the point in staying when the score is 4 to 0 and farming kills is the game. PVP should be equally geared players fighting a equal battle for a goal. Instead we get over geared players farming under geared players for gear. Do you see the reason that PVP is no fun for the under geared players and they leave? The whole design is the problem not how the players respond. What do you expect? Do you really think FUN is getting farmed? Is 2 seconds dead, 2 seconds dead fun? Edited February 1, 2012 by Metalmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestrodomus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Only part I think sucks is q'ing up only to get sent into a 4-1 game that's half over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Everyone leaves. Why stay, no penalty. Enemy scored first? Leave. Enemy capped two turrets? Leave. Enemy got first door in 90 seconds? Leave. Needs to be at least 20 min penalty on this, you leave you lose all benefits and can't join another till the one you left is over. All that would do is cause people to burn out and quit PVPing altogether. There are problems with PVP itself that need to be addressed so that people want to stay even if they find themselves losing. Right now it is pretty easy to predict who is going to win a WZ. And sticking around means wasted time to people who are trying to grind out their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehme Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) As for the scenario where youre down 5-0 with like 10 mins left I would just stay for the lolz and valor gain. Strip your toon naked and run around to pass the time. Hide somewhere and go watch some tv. Just wait out the time so you get the valor. Edited February 1, 2012 by Rehme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organikal Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guys use your brains for a second and think "Why are people leaving the WZ?" Answer is that what is the point in staying when the score is 4 to 0 and farming kills is the game. PVP should be equally geared players fighting a equal battle for a goal. Instead we get over geared players farming under geared players for gear. Do you see the reason that PVP is no fun for the under geared players and they leave? The whole design is the problem not how the players respond. What do you expect? Do you really think FUN is getting farmed? Is 2 seconds dead, 2 seconds dead fun? Your logic is wrong... more specifically the "equal gear" part. I know before you respond that you are a casual player and you aren't even close to battlemaster (same here) but not rewarding the players that have worked for the levels for their gear would be wrong. The problem is that with this game and many others like it gear is more important than player skill. The fact still remains that leaving a WZ as a quitter should have quitter penalties. Debuff = fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToliverGrey Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 All that would do is cause people to burn out and quit PVPing altogether. This is a problem how? Those people need to be driven out of PvP entirely. They are of no use to their teammates. They are exactly the type of person who asks "Why do we lose every warzone I am in?" but don't understand that the answer is "Because of you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SertisKlein Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Is it a surprise? All of the advanced loot in pvp (read: Battlemaster) requires WINS. Not play. WINS. If you have a finite amount of time, no need for valor, and a need to win games that last on average between 10 and 15 minutes, why would you stay in a losing game? Answer: you wouldn't. The system starts out with gearing through bags acquired through comms. Arguably a bad system, but at least you acquire from wins and losses. And yes, at Battlemaster level, you should only acquire gear by winning games, again arguably but I tend to support this. So you can't blame anyone and I don't think anyone supports deserter debuffs precisely because of this. It's not just battlemasters. Under 50, your valor can't increase higher than your level so the only reason you're staying is because your daily requires you to win. BW brought this on themselves by making that a requirement. Mix this with low pop/unbalanced pop servers where the 50 tier waits an average of 90 minutes for a match, it's no wonder some people leave, hoping for a huttball match with their own faction so they have a chance of finishing 1/3 of their daily requirements after dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 This is a problem how? Those people need to be driven out of PvP entirely. They are of no use to their teammates. They are exactly the type of person who asks "Why do we lose every warzone I am in?" but don't understand that the answer is "Because of you." You are not evaluating why some people leave warzones. The funny thing is most people I know who do this (And I am not one of them I might add. I generally stick it out just to get practice.) is because their teammates they were stuck with suck and they are tired of losing because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah_banana Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I used to never leave, and would make comments of those that did. Then the opposing side started farming in Huttball. Get 5 scores, then keep passing the ball around so they could maximize medals. You have a choice. Stick around for marginal exp/money etc and increase your opponents valor gain increasing their gear advantage over you in future matches, or get enough people to leave to shut off the valor flow. The delta of valor between you and the farming team is greater if they farm then if you leave and lose out on your minimum valor. This is kind of my take on it. I've sat through some horrible warzones - and as a healer, horrible truly means HORRIBLE - because keeping bad players alive does nothing to advance the game, so you have to start filling roles you aren't specced for and that's just depressing However I WILL leave if the opposing team is being obnoxious. It's one thing to steamroll us, it's quite another to purposefully make a pug sit in a 5-0 huttball or at the last set of doors you blasted open in Voidstar and just kill people repeatedly and yell abusive things over General chat. This is extremely poor sportsmanship and it wastes our time. Sure you get some comms if it goes on longer, but you could be in another match, winning. Those I will leave, and I have no problem leaving my comms lying on the table. Otherwise though, I will stay. Competative games are way more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Deleted Edited February 1, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Its a video game. unbelievable! Some of us have a family and a job thus we have limited time. Not all of us live in our parents basement and play video games from sun up till sun down all day every day. noob. As for the scenario where youre down 5-0 with like 10 mins left I would just stay for the lolz and valor gain. Strip your toon naked and run around to pass the time. Hide somewhere and go watch some tv. Just wait out the time so you get the valor. I thought you have a job and a family? This is what you do with your time. In other worsds, another guy who quits instead of losing Edited February 1, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehme Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I thought you have a job and a family? This is what you do with your time. Well what do I do? I dont want to upset all the people who are very interested in farming me!! Edited February 1, 2012 by Rehme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I left my first WZ yesterday. I got pulled into an EV Raid run by my guildies and simply had to go. However, before leaving, I did announce this in Ops and apologized that I had to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) You are not evaluating why some people leave warzones. The funny thing is most people I know who do this (And I am not one of them I might add. I generally stick it out just to get practice.) is because their teammates they were stuck with suck and they are tired of losing because of it. Yep, sure teammates suck = don't like losing Edited February 1, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Do any of these quitters, with 5,000 reasons why they are entitled to quit on teammates, leave when they are up 5-0? Nah, why not? It's a waste of time and not competitive. The answer............................................................the truth is they just don't like to lose so they quit instead. Edited February 1, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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