Lies about sniper PVP

[Ayestes]

so you agree that the class fine, cause i don't understand what the problem is with sniper/slinger in pvp. i get destroyed as a sniper if some1 comes to my face. but if people are whining how there fresh lv50 sniper/slinger is getting owned. name one class as a fresh lv50 which doesn't get destroyed

 

My personal opinion is that we are the most part fine. In most games we are completely fine at 50. I do believe that in terms of teamplay and objective based PvP we are a little lacking in Utility compared to a Sorcerer. I'm unsure about the Mercenary as I haven't played one extensively yet.

 

In direct comparison to the Sorcerer, I believe the (Lethality) Sniper has more on demand burst and mobile damage. While I believe the Sorcerer has a lot more utility and PvP sustained damage. The Sorcerer does a lot better against other premades as well since their resource is infinite in comparison to the Sniper. I value the advantages a Sorcerer has over a Sniper as a personal opinion since it's impossible to compare them mathematically.

 

That said the things I think the Sorcerer has as advantages against a Sniper really don't come into play unless you are a Premade vs. Premade with both sides having 2-3 healers. Beyond that the Sniper is personally just more fun to play and destroys ignorant opponents. I do think the Sniper is incredibly easy to counter though, especially after the experience leveling up two other classes that would see them regularly in PvP. LoS, Roots, and Dispels wreck the various specs of Snipers unless the Sniper performs can counter the counterplay.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Ayestes

[Juunro]

Having spent a week or so now doing level 50 PVP on my admittedly undergeared sniper, it seems to go like this:

 

Is our team doing well, and keeping stuff off of me? Then I am capable of laying down some serious hurt and quite capable of taking the ever present Sorcerers/Sages right out of the fight in a very small amount of time, and otherwise seriously making healers have a bad day.

 

Is our team uncoordinated as hell, and so it devolves into a brawl of alot of small 1v1s? Then I die, alot.

 

It seems to me that Sniper plays like a support class; you are providing constant, high output ranged damage and area denial. Heck, just keeping an eye on friendly healers and flashbanging anything that gets on them makes you an increadably useful member of the team, in my experience so far.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Juunro

[Aggony]

I appreciate that you rolled a sniper to try it for yourself, however I would take all of the rants from the Level 50's complaining about their main over your few levels of experience.

[DestyOwn]

/Fail Thread

 

MM Sucks in LVL50 Brackets.

Lethality is good

[Desgarden]

Putting aside sorcs and maybe mercs for a moment, how can you possibly say this? Until combat logs come out, it's mostly anecdotal.

.

 

Oh you are right. Why compare a sniper to the other ranged dps classes like merc and sorcers? Really weird idea.

[Jaif]

Because if the only issue you have is that sniper are worse than those 2 classes, but on-par with all the other dps classes, then we may be talking about a different issue.

 

But if you contend that snipers are worse than all classes in PvP below lvl 50 (which others have said in this thread), then I have to disagree. The sniper is just as good as any of them, except possibly the merc and sorc.

 

-Jeff

[HollowVamp]

the issue seems to be what every class QQs about, dying to fast when focus fired by everyone, also we dont handle stunlock well, but who does.

[Ayestes]

Yes most complaints seem to fall in the general category of L2P. The trick is to look past those complaints and find the ones that have merit, and discuss those.

[Vonleo]

Yes most complaints seem to fall in the general category of L2P. The trick is to look past those complaints and find the ones that have merit, and discuss those.

 

I think all the complaints are actually fair. The big problem is that we have almost all our skills being ABSORBED OR DEFLECTED. We also have no mobility(using the MM tree) and get very little in return(damage) when we can just hop onto another class and have the mobility and the basically the same damage out put as the sniper. Their is no balance thats the problem if we are to have very little mobility then we should at least be the top DPS class when BOTH PLAYERS HAVE EQUAL GEAR.

 

I have put in a full rotation onto someone and all i see is absorb or deflected.

 

No other class has this problem but us. Also Line of sight anyone? sniper needs some major fixes to make it competative AT THE LVL 50 BRACKET.

[Archvampire]

Level 47 sniper , rank valor 30.

The thing about snipers is that we are a pure dps class with minimal utility, in other words we pew pew pew until we die. We can't heal our teamates when they are about to die 1v1 in hopes they kill the opposite person.

We can't throw shields on people to absorb damade to help people mitigate damage.

We can't tank, we can't take damage, we can't dps while being mobile or at least sufficient damage to scare people into attacking us.

We don't have that much utility...

SO, we are a pure dps class. What does that mean in pvp? It means that if you arent topping the charts in dps which if you are you should generally have 6-8 medals. You are not doing your job in WZ which equates to you hindering your team mates. Why have a sniper that is doing the same damage as a Sorc/merc/powertech/operative if they have more utility or even in some cases more damage.

 

Yes, damage and K/d ratio don't matter in WZ's for some people. HOWEVER, people we are snipers a PURE dps class. In huttball we have the hardest time running the ball because we don't have heavy armor, we don't have shields, we don't have leaps or dashes. If a sniper isn't topping the charts with good k/d ratios then he isn't helping us win the game. Why would you throw the ball to a sniper if he is going to struggle to take damage or to even run the ball. I'd rather he be bursting people down that are chasing me and flashbanging them while he is at it.

 

In civil war we can camp a spot sure.... but then we aren't doing damage therefore we aren't doing what the class was set out to do. Therefore, we are worthless.... lol. Needless to say on dark reaper we lose every civil war possible. So yeah...

 

In the bomb planting one. Snipers better be topping the charts in damage and k/d. Thats your job! Protect the doors by killing anything coming near them. Protect your healers with flash bangs and damage. If a sniper isn't getting 5-8 medals in this one he wasn't helping his team defend or take the doors.

 

We can't heal because we don't heals. We can't protect people outside of ballistic shield (mind you this is an amazing utility damage reduction spell if coupled with entrench. The way snipers protect their team mates is by DPSING to the point that people are scared of them so they force them to take out the sniper instead of their teammates. So if a sniper isn't pulling top 3 dps and isn't pulling a positive k/d score he isn't playing his class right. I get frustrated when i have to bust my *** of to get my 6-8 medals every WZ when i see sorcs/mercs/operatives/bh/sith get 8-10 medals because they can shield/heal/protect which = free medals=more valor=more utility=more value to the team.

[Ayestes]

I think all the complaints are actually fair. The big problem is that we have almost all our skills being ABSORBED OR DEFLECTED. We also have no mobility(using the MM tree) and get very little in return(damage) when we can just hop onto another class and have the mobility and the basically the same damage out put as the sniper. Their is no balance thats the problem if we are to have very little mobility then we should at least be the top DPS class when BOTH PLAYERS HAVE EQUAL GEAR.

 

I have put in a full rotation onto someone and all i see is absorb or deflected.

 

No other class has this problem but us. Also Line of sight anyone? sniper needs some major fixes to make it competative AT THE LVL 50 BRACKET.

 

Not all complaints are really that fair concerning the overall balance of the game. If all forum complaints were fair every class would be terribly unbalanced and underpowered. That's why you look past the initial complaints, beyond those that appear to be players simply learning how to play the game still, and find the reasons that everyone seems to be in consensus with.

 

• Marksman generally has issues with being over mitigated by tanks in comparison to other classes.
  
• Engineering generally has issues with cooldowns, energy efficiency, and maintaining pressure in PvP vs. intelligent folk.
  
• Lethality generally has issues with with energy efficiency and dispel effects.
  
• All three specs share some common issues with useless talents, cover issues, and energy being such a punishing mechanic. Not to mention a general lack of utility without access to taunts or offheals.
  

 

In the end, it's not up to us to determine whether or not we need changes. A class by itself can never make the determination, because they are inherently biased as all heck. Usually they are biased in terms of wanting more power or by boasting about how awesome they are. Both are often done selfishly and subconsciously.

 

Personally, I'm not sure if we need buffs in general. I'd love quality of life fixes certainly, but I cannot be certain we need them yet. I even believe a Sorcerer is better then a Sniper in terms of the PvP that I typically play within, but that belief is extremely subjective and I know each one has advantages and disadvantages in comparison to the other. I have experience with both classes, and that's the only reason I can even be comfortable making this even just an opinion I'd share.

 

Honestly I think a lot of this discussion is in the end healthy. It's just we need to refrain from writing emotionally... on all sides of this discussion. We should be discussing strategy, discussing our strengths and weaknesses, and suggesting possible ways to improve us if we do in fact need those changes. Discussing whether or not we need those changes is often too emotional on both sides of the discussion, but I do believe it's possible we could do so successfully if everyone just took a moment and tried to remove some of the selfish tendencies we all have when we write on these forums.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Ayestes

[MightyHalo]

You can down heavy armor targets quite easily as lethality...

 

 

You can take them down easier than MM, but quite easily is a joke unless the guy has no PVP gear on.

[Reilnkur]

Don't for get us Eng who bring in A probe to slow the ball guy, the explosive probe we can toss on a guy for someone else to trigger to kill things faster. I think Snipers are one of the better Defensive players. We have alot of CC and leathal Burst. Anyone that rushes a sniper with out a sheild of some sort on will not live long or be sent running away for LOS / cover. After you are 50 and geared with T2 pvp or pve gear or better you will see that only the top geared from the other side will mess with you the rest will avoid you like the plague or see there skulls filled with lead in front of your smoking rifle.

[ducksmyth]

Don't for get us Eng who bring in A probe to slow the ball guy, the explosive probe we can toss on a guy for someone else to trigger to kill things faster. I think Snipers are one of the better Defensive players. We have alot of CC and leathal Burst. Anyone that rushes a sniper with out a sheild of some sort on will not live long or be sent running away for LOS / cover. After you are 50 and geared with T2 pvp or pve gear or better you will see that only the top geared from the other side will mess with you the rest will avoid you like the plague or see there skulls filled with lead in front of your smoking rifle.

 

Snipers are a poor defencive class.

The good defencive classes are anything with stealth, healers and in huttball powertechs and shadow tanks are top defence because of the pulls.

Defence in this game is about living or hiding long enough to interupt caps, ranged stuns or about chucking people off ledges, snipers are kinda bad at these.

 

Snipers don't have stealth and die fast.

I'd rather have any other class watch a point than a sniper.

 

Nobody fears snipers.

Usually the opposite. In my experience snipers are an assasin/ operative magnet.

Snipers like to be away from the action which makes you a very tempting target for the stealth classes who will open up on you quite happily knowing they'll both win and wont get trained to death by a mob of people nearby or decloaked by splash.

[sorryone]

Duck has it right.

 

We are easy targets. Once closed on guess what we die.

 

Our main attacks are all on channeled abilities therfore we have 2-2.5 seconds before we fire while someone spots us can jump/pull or stun us in the time it takes for us to fire.

 

And hang on we are not talking huge damage for these channeled abilities.

 

A broken tree, and one that Bioware is probably unwilling to fix.

 

snipers do not sit on the front lines but in this game they do, since our max range is the same as most others but does not have the added effects that the other classes have.

 

Simple fix, dump the crap at the 3rd tier of MM and give us extended range ,15m's would help.

 

Also Series of shots should stun, and rapid fire then would hurt.

 

In PvE we are in the same boat, melee mobs really hurt us, legshot, stops them from closing for one shot but our ability to keep targets at range is crap.

 

A broken class, but one I am stuck with due to the fact that I cant change to operative due to Biowares great idea that once you choose ,you cant change.

 

PS. Bioware class story on Corellia "one of the greatest stealth agents the empire has known" when I cant feckin stealth.

 

That says it all.

[maximusedward]

Play a OPerative which was meant to be a hybrid class dps/healing faceroll snipers like a joke

compared to a sniper which was meant to be dps in all 3 trees, and was suppose to dish out more dps.

The current problem with the sniper in pvp is lack of mobility and cover, take cover, read cover skill, think no one can interrupt you, get knock back while youre in cover, /facepalm.

 

 

pls tell me why it should take me cover+2.30sec/1.30 sec to deal 3000+ dmg when my hybrid mirror with heals invisibility can instantly dish that out?

[Krypsyn]

Duck has it right.

 

We are easy targets. Once closed on guess what we die.

 

Our main attacks are all on channeled abilities therfore we have 2-2.5 seconds before we fire while someone spots us can jump/pull or stun us in the time it takes for us to fire.

 

And hang on we are not talking huge damage for these channeled abilities.

 

 

 

Well, I think I see your problem. You are using too many channeled attacks and sitting in one place for too long. I am usually always moving in PvP (unless I am guarding a door and using entrench and barrier shield, or plopping down an Orbital Strike). I normal hit cover, throw a grenade (if multiple people), shoot an instant snap shot snipe, throw an explosive probe, shoot an instant Followthrough shot, then shoot an instant Takedown (if available). That takes about 6 seconds and usually takes anyone in light or medium armor down to below half health. Then, wash, rinse, repeat; 6 seconds allows the insta-snipe, ballistic dampeners and cover screen to recycle, so it works well. I, also, mix it up with utility skills and CCs as needed, but that is my basic PvP rotation. If I am yanked out of the rotation, it is pretty easy to use some CCs and/or sit back down to continue; no channel time is lost since all attacks are instant.

 

That is, of course, with my MM sniper. I suspect you were referring to Lethality (never played it, never plan to, so no idea)? Perhaps I am 'Doing It Wrong', but I seem to do pretty well in the Level 50-Bracket on my server. I agree that for a 'Pure DPS' class we should probably do a little more damage, but we are far from the totally broken class many on the forums complain about.

[Wehs]

Getting to 50 I ran as a marksman sniper doing fairly well in warzones. Then once I hit the 50's bracket I got a rude awakening, not getting anywhere near the damage I used to get. However, once I switched to the Lethality-pvp spec, things got back to normal. Had to get used to a new play-style, but overall I'm content with my output. A lot of the issue is that marksman-spec, really snipers in general, don't have many defensive options, contrary to our cover system. Although we can exploit LOS and have a few helpful cd's, it really sucks when as soon as I touch the Huttball I get burned down 10 seconds later.

 

TL;DR: Many people may overlook our awesome damage to our weak defenses. Get a good healer/tank, and you're good to go in most cases.

[shucksy]

Check your stats window as a lvl 10 sniper in a WZ, you get the damage mitigation of a tank and HEAVILY boosted damage to your attacks - my lvl 10 Sniper hits harder than my champion equipped Gunslinger. I think Sniper is the strongest lvl 10 character actually, it's all downhill after that though as the boosted stats are far more useful than the talent points. Edited February 4, 2012 by shucksy

[Kyris_Xiandrii]

imo the issue is simply that snipers dont bring anything to the group over what other classes bring.

 

yeh, all we bring to the group is a totally useless +5% crit buff

 

oh wait...

[Kyris_Xiandrii]

Getting to 50 I ran as a marksman sniper doing fairly well in warzones. Then once I hit the 50's bracket I got a rude awakening, not getting anywhere near the damage I used to get. However, once I switched to the Lethality-pvp spec, things got back to normal. Had to get used to a new play-style, but overall I'm content with my output. A lot of the issue is that marksman-spec, really snipers in general, don't have many defensive options, contrary to our cover system. Although we can exploit LOS and have a few helpful cd's, it really sucks when as soon as I touch the Huttball I get burned down 10 seconds later.

 

TL;DR: Many people may overlook our awesome damage to our weak defenses. Get a good healer/tank, and you're good to go in most cases.

 

you did much less damage because most people at 50 have their full PVP sets, which give 15% damage reduction from players

[ShakesMcQueen]

We are easy targets. Once closed on guess what we die.

 

There are many legitimate complaints about the sniper's balance compared to the other classes. This is not one of them.

 

Snipers SHOULD be vulnerable against melee ranged opponents. And even then, you have the ability to use your stun stick or flash bang to hold them up and create some distance. You're not a front line fighter.

 

A proper PvP group will have a healer looking out for you, or some teammates to help you out if you get ganked.

[ducksmyth]

yeh, all we bring to the group is a totally useless +5% crit buff

 

oh wait...

 

Or you could get that from an operative.

[ShakesMcQueen]

Or you could get that from an operative.

 

The operatives losing their minds about how supposedly useless their class is now?

[Pinworm]

Do you honestly believe your experience was representative of level 50 pvp against people who have gear, and where everyone has all of their abilities?

 

I mean, I don't even think Snipers are the worst class or even bad, but this argument makes no sense. No one is complaining about snipers at level 13 (or at least that's not what most people who have issues here are talking about)