Gear based PvP is amateur hour

[Daedricshots]

GW2 will never come close to the amount of people that bought SWTOR. It is because MMOs without gear progression doesn't appeal to a lot of MMO pvpers and pvers.

 

Please get off the soapbox, its painfully obvious you cant see the future.

[deltaminus]

Sir the game you speak of came and went. It was called Bloodline Champions. It failed for same reason you think it should succeed, there was no incentive to play aside from playing. There was no progression, just a mindless grind of quick matches. So eventually they took the same road as League of Legends, a progression system where you unlock ability upgrades and buffs. You get stronger in game, the more you play.

 

SWTOR just like every other mmorpg, is an RPG. Personally I came here for the PvP and the RPG elements of character progression. Just as a player will gain better and more powerful gears from killing computer controlled mobs, I expect to be rewarded with better and more powerful gears from killing player controlled mobs.

 

Every MMO I've played has been like this. Personally I'm happy BW stuck to this formula. The fact that PvE and PvP loot progression mirrors each other with RNG makes me happy. The only real beef I have with all of this is the lack of top tier crafting materials in PvP.

 

As it stands though, I'm very happy with gear based PvP. It's why I'm PvPing in an MMO instead of CoD or CounterStrike.

[Cromica]

.People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it.

 

 

PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it.

 

Don't worry GW2 will be out this year and will be about skill, and for the real pvpers ToR will be just a bad game that they tried once.

[Cromica]

I think that's what they're planning.

 

It's also easily possible to have an MMO-like reward system anyway. Just make it rewards that aren't effective in PVP. Stuff for your guild or faction, that sort of thing. Have a look at EVE to see what is possible, even a fraction of that would be amazing in a game like SWTOR.

 

The rewards will be cool looking gear with no stats that change the appearance of the gear you have, the way it should be.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Cromica

[Grooboggle]

Don't worry GW2 will be out this year and will be about skill, and for the real pvpers ToR will be just a bad game that they tried once.

 

Why limit yourself to MMO's.

 

There are clearly superior skill based PVP games out there right now you only have to buy a console. I play CODMW with my kid frequently so you can get team based elements in there too. You can even get a competitive advantage with having 2 360's in the same room with two tv's.

 

There are a lot of FPS games out that are much more skill based if you mean hand eye coordination with no gear advantage.

[Ewgal]

Some of the worst PvP you will ever encounter is in 10-49 bracket, where gear isn't that critical. AFKers and players who have no idea how to play huttball. Hardly ever see any healing for example. It isn't a golden place of epic skills on display.

[Cromica]

Why limit yourself to MMO's.

 

There are clearly superior skill based PVP games out there right now you only have to buy a console. I play CODMW with my kid frequently so you can get team based elements in there too. You can even get a competitive advantage with having 2 360's in the same room with two tv's.

 

There are a lot of FPS games out that are much more skill based if you mean hand eye coordination with no gear advantage.

 

I own all 3 consoles but they collect dust because my PC is better than all of them.

I play battlefield on PC also, but this thread is about mmos.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Cromica

[xxdragonragexx]

LOL @ people saying GW2.

 

People that play that game will play it for a month then quit.

Been there, done that. Did it in GW1 and a lot of games.

Why are people in here and not in GW1 when it doesn't require gear? Same reason that we all quit it.

 

Without gear progression or character progression = no retention rate.

[Khelzar]

Some of the worst PvP you will ever encounter is in 10-49 bracket, where gear isn't that critical. AFKers and players who have no idea how to play huttball. Hardly ever see any healing for example. It isn't a golden place of epic skills on display.

 

Nor is the level 50 bracket, really, unless you're in a premade. Otherwise, I've seen the same amount of people making the same usual mistakes in the level 50 warzones that I've seen in the level 10-49 ones.

[Cromica]

LOL @ people saying GW2.

 

People that play that game will play it for a month then quit.

Been there, done that. Did it in GW1 and a lot of games.

Why are people in here and not in GW1 when it doesn't require gear? Same reason that we all quit it.

 

Without gear progression or character progression = no retention rate.

 

Actually a lot of people are sick of the hamster wheel and retarded stat grinds, GW2 progression will be about looks and not stats and I and many many others consider that infinitely more fun than what mmos are now.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Cromica

[rchase]

Posted this on the other gear pvp discussion

 

 

People who think gear rewards are the standard for PvP probably have only played WoW.

 

You really think the only way to progress your character is through obtaining better gear?

 

DAoC rewarded players as they gained Realm Rank by giving them Realm Skill Points, which could be used to buy new abilities, such as "Ignore Pain" which was a self insta heal on a cooldown, or "augmented dexterity" which gave them more dex points if they were at the cap. Some mana heals, higher crit rates, etc. Gear was a non factor because every stat had a cap to it, so there were many ways you could cap your important stats through gear.

 

Not only that, your realm rank was displayed with your name. So if you saw a Briton Lord running at you, you knew you were about to engage in combat with a player who knew what he was doing because he achieved that realm rank.

 

Also the people who think that if there isn't gear to chase people wont PvP are sad. If your PvPing for the gear, then there is no talking to you, and you really shouldn't be talking in the PvP forum to begin with.

[Xehoz]

LOL @ people saying GW2.

 

People that play that game will play it for a month then quit.

Been there, done that. Did it in GW1 and a lot of games.

Why are people in here and not in GW1 when it doesn't require gear? Same reason that we all quit it.

 

Without gear progression or character progression = no retention rate.

 

Guild Wars 1 excelled in GvG. Competition. It's still the best RPG pvp ever made. Certainly the most well balanced (i dunno what really happened after the second expansion). Having been selected to play in the european regional championship (first worldwide competition) and finishing the next season in #8 worldwid, as well as working on team builds, I kind know what I'm talking about when I say it was the most balanced RPG ever made. It's true that it was made with PvP in mind, but that's the way things are.

 

But there's a reason for people leaving GW1... The game is old. Game mechanics, fluid movements, graphics engine. It was awesome when it came out though. Very few games live as long as starcraft or cs. MMOs usually live by introducing PvE content, not by excelling in PvP content (well, other than EvE, but that's ramping PvP to a completly different geopolitical ballgame).

Edited February 4, 2012 by Xehoz

[va_wanderer]

.People have been wanting a PvP game that was based on their ability, as opposed to what they wear, for years. This is not it.

 

PvP'ers (unless you live with Mom) have been looking for this for years. SWTOR is not it.

 

I believe the words you're looking for here are "First Person Shooter".

 

Any game designed for PvE in any reasonable amount won't be your "skills" game. Nor should it be. Nor will it ever be.

[xxdragonragexx]

Guild Wars 1 excelled in GvG. Competition. It's still the best RPG pvp ever made. Certainly the most well balanced (i dunno what really happened after the second expansion). Having been selected to play in the european regional championship (first worldwide competition) and finishing the next season in #8 worldwid, as well as working on team builds, I kind know what I'm talking about when I say it was the most balanced RPG ever made. It's true that it was made with PvP in mind, but that's the way things are.

 

But there's a reason for people leaving GW1... The game is old. Game mechanics, fluid movements, graphics engine. It was awesome when it came out though. Very few games live as long as starcraft or cs. MMOs usually live by introducing PvE content, not by excelling in PvP content (well, other than EvE, but that's ramping PvP to a completly different geopolitical ballgame).

 

Even if it is old, the mechanics are very different from swtor. We all know swtor will be about gear progression then why are people playing this game and not gw1?

More importantly why are people who want skills and no gear in swtor and not gw1?

Even if it is old. GW1 is still skill based or class based or whatever. It is the gameplay you guys are looking for.

 

Look at WoW, it came out before GW1. It's old. Older than GW1 and yet people are still playing it. Like I said any game without gear progression = no retention rate.

Edited February 4, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Xehoz]

DAoC rewarded players as they gained Realm Rank by giving them Realm Skill Points, which could be used to buy new abilities, such as "Ignore Pain" which was a self insta heal on a cooldown, or "augmented dexterity" which gave them more dex points if they were at the cap. Some mana heals, higher crit rates, etc. Gear was a non factor because every stat had a cap to it, so there were many ways you could cap your important stats through gear.

 

That's just another kind of "gear". PvP, properly balanced PvP, that is able to reward skilled players is leveled. If it promotes some kind of (dis)advantage to a team, it does so moderately.

 

Having ~10-12% damage reduction, damage increase and healing increase is not moderate, especially when some may have 0-5%.

 

Considering that the warzone expertise adrenal grants you an extra 25% and is very cheap (10 WZ commendations), I'm sure you can picture how 'moderate' advantages are. The PvP adrenal is like a universal adrenal. It effectively reduces the damage you take (defense) and boosts your damage and healing output (power). On a side note, I'm pretty sure most biochemists haven't though this through.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Xehoz

[DGolubets]

I believe the words you're looking for here are "First Person Shooter".

 

Any game designed for PvE in any reasonable amount won't be your "skills" game. Nor should it be. Nor will it ever be.

 

This summs it up. I can add that you can try strategies like SC2 too. But this is MMORPG.

[Xehoz]

Even if it is old, the mechanics are very different from swtor. We all know swtor will be about gear progression then why are people playing this game and not gw1?

More importantly why are people who want skills and no gear in swtor and not gw1?

Even if it is old. GW1 is still skill based or class based or whatever. It is the gameplay you guys are looking for.

 

Look at WoW, it came out before GW1. It's old. Older than GW1 and yet people are still playing it. Like I said any game without gear progression = no retention rate.

 

Guild Wars 1 isn't a MMO and never intended to be. It was a CORPG: Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game.

 

You make a fair point. I don't know how many people are still playing it, tbh. But it's not comparable with any MMO. It doesn't have a subscription plan and it doesn't push a lot of content every month, which is actually what keeps players in. Sure, the content brings gear. But that's mostly PvE content. PvP gear is *only* updated to remain equivalent to PvE gear.

 

Considering that being in full Battlemaster gear is a bad idea... I'm yet to see how PvP gear grind will be in the future. They'll probably change the diminishing return curve.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Xehoz

[NinjaScroll]

It's hard to make a mmo with good pvp that doesn't rely on gear, i mean people get bored when there's nothing to work towards.

 

Uh ... well too bad for them.

But I guess that you'd rather suck your whole life but have some great gear at the end than rock and just end it up with nothing else than skills.

[Gelich]

Any game designed for PvE in any reasonable amount won't be your "skills" game.

 

Non WoW-clones online games would like to have a word with you. Like Vindictus, for example.

[xxdragonragexx]

Uh ... well too bad for them.

But I guess that you'd rather suck your whole life but have some great gear at the end than rock and just end it up with nothing else than skills.

 

I'd rather suck my whole life in a video game. LoL. Kids today. Why do people think having skills or being better in pvp is an achievement? If I'm the best player in any game, I wouldn't be proud of it. I can't sell it, won't get money for it and women won't fall for me because of it. It is a useless title.

[Gelich]

I'd rather suck my whole life in a video game. LoL. Kids today. Why do people think having skills or being better in pvp is an achievement? If I'm the best player in any game, I wouldn't be proud of it. I can't sell it, won't get money for it and women won't fall for me because of it. It is a useless title.

 

Because being better than others is pleasant. Also, if you're indeed the best you can make money off of it. And a special kind of ladies would even dig you because of it >.>

 

But in the end, it's as useful as collecting post stamps. Some people just like it.

[Suciotime]

Somebody call the WAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE there is so much crying going on in this thread.

[Knifewrench]

See signature if you're still confused about there being gear in an MMO.

[xxdragonragexx]

See signature if you're still confused about there being gear in an MMO.

 

I actually suck at video games but Visual Basic tells me I'm the best.

[darthmorbous]

i personally would work toward vanity items, experience and in-game currency. I pvp mostly for fun so i would trade the gear grind for a skill based combat system any day of the week.

If gear only accounted for 10% of a players damage output then it would be a non-issue. It would be 90% skill and 10% gear but most mmo developers are silly imo and always go for the 50/50 route.

Pvp is suppose to be about player vs player anyhow, not gear vs gear.

 

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