Nerf tracer missle now

[LordTyrantXerxis]

LOL true.

 

On occasion, if I have my relic, adrenal and hit the expertise buff in a wz, I can crit for 3k three times in a row, however half the time I'm not that lucky, I'll hit twice and crit once, or hit 3 times with no crit. Sometimes the stars align and I'll hit three crits in a row for 3k a piece. I can't polish anyone off with three tracers though. I only have 560 expertise though.

 

Usually I have to tracer missile x 3, heatseeker, tracer x2 than railshot(and someone preoccupied with someone else will die). That involves alot of standing in one spot squeezing out my tracer lol

Edit-if I'm noticed I use stuns, and knockbacks in my rotaton, plus I use unload if the unload bonus is up.

 

Honestly though, if I'd known what an stationary target class merc was, i would have rolled a powertech

 

Same here.

[Snaex]

...I'm playing an assassin. So far the armor has been close to a juggarnaut in tank stance I played briefly. I'm sure when I spec into the additional 20% armor, it will help. Not to mention guess who has the most elemental and internal absorption.. oh, that's right, assassins.

 

 

 

The fact you were quoting something of mine that had a quote in it, you should at least see what the conversation is about first. Otherwise you're jumping into a conversation without a damn clue. Anyways, they hit damn harder than other ranged DPS without that, but its the explanation for the 3k crits, the claim is they don't happen, but they do and that's why. If you want to make a new excuse up every time you people are proven wrong on something, something is messed up.

 

I'm telling you right now as tank spec you get 6k armor. I'm glad you think your experience as a level 22 means you know what the situation at end game is.

 

But you guys are all right, its perfectly normal to have a tank that is effectivley a healer.

 

It is by no way a ridiculous claim, when the only truly effective form of mitigation we have is armor, and they have the same armor as us. Get to 50 and see how **** absorbption is.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Snaex

[TehPenGu]

No, operatives were doing half your hp in ONE hit (7k), in 3 hits you were dead. Taking half your health in 4,5 seconds IF they crit on all of them which is a very sllim chance is not exactly overpowered. Every class can do the same. Melees can even do it with instants. Tracermissile is very vulnerable to interrupts and LoS.

 

I mean, if you cant deal with someone spamming tracermissile you have nothing to do in PvP. Even the "supposedly" weakest class, gunslinger can do way more dmg than a guy spamming tracermissile in the same amount of time. Gunnerycommando is the easiest class to play against in the game. They got so little utility. Arguably the weakest class in a 1v1 scenario with all CD clean, given equal gear.

 

Stop ranting about a basic skill that is by no means overpowered and learn to play the game.

 

 

CLARELY you have not played OP, or you are doing something very very wrong on your merc. If you use the PvP stims you can crit MUCH more and MUCH faster than any OP can.

 

YESS in mixed 10-50 PvP it was possible to crit MOUNTAINS of dmg onto ungeared and unskilled clothwearing and armor rendered foes. But how does that relate to ANYTHING that is in the current PvP game? Its been fixed, and then its been overfixed.

[KhalDrogoe]

Tracerspam is a terrible way to do DPS. I'm on a small server and I know every player that queues WZ's what their spec is, and what their habits are. I tried out Arsenal for a couple days, but even though I like the damage it can cause, you have to be standing still.

 

 

On my server most of the republic are shadows or other melee classes, so they swarm a target. And if you're standing still trying to tracerspam, you've already lost. Because of this I had to switch to the highly mobile Pyro spec. I can dot them up, fast cast a fusion rocket, and the only skill I ever have to stand still for is Unload. Which I only use if I'm trying to burst down a target or refresh the CD on my rail shot.

 

When I was arsenal, every *good* republic player noticed my change of habits, and they would always go for me first. So naturally having to stand still made me an easy target.

 

There are way too many stuns/interrupts, and ways of causing them in the game that a good player will know how to overcome a spammer.

 

I destroy tracerspam in a 1v1, I dot them up LOS jet blast re-dot, LOS then stun, and burst. Now SHADOWS and Sages on the other hand, those guys are just terribly OP! Damage that I can't mitigate except through expertise... yeah if they get a pocket healer, they can just destroy dozens of people in a matter of a minute or two.

[Numerii]

http://memegenerator.net/instance/13930221

[Edex]

For all the people qq about simple tracer spam, i have one question and one question only that puts a real light on the issue. What class are you?

 

If you say op or sorc please ****

[Delavager]

They can take stealth for all I care, their is almost no benefit to us having it. We get a ****** opener and unless your running deception for the 6second force regen, there is no reason to really stealth.

 

Are you serious?

 

Stealth is our best skill. Lol please delete your assassin and play a different character if you don't want stealth. You shouldn't be playing a class based around stealth if you don't think it's of no benefit.

[Kuari]

I'm telling you right now as tank spec you get 6k armor. I'm glad you think your experience as a level 22 means you know what the situation at end game is.

 

But you guys are all right, its perfectly normal to have a tank that is effectivley a healer.

 

Yes, because a DPS Comm/Merc is totally wasting their time healing. That totally doesn't get them killed. Newsflash, it does, because instead of killing the person, they are getting worn down.

 

Want to guess how much armor total the Battlemaster Supercommando gear gives?

3659

5854 in tank stance

 

This is just from the 5 piece set, but to compare..

 

Armor from an Battlemaster Survivor?

1938

4845 in unspecced tank stance

5232 in specced assuming the 20% is added with Dark Charge... but if it comes before...

Something like 5812.

 

Math defeats assumption

Edited February 1, 2012 by Kuari

[Vodrin]

Yea my additional armor puts me at about 6k, as assassins where cloth, the stance puts me on PAR with heavy armor targets. You didn't disprove my point, and by the way you argued it, I don't believe you realize that assassin tanks wear light armor and the stance is only a means to make us the same as other classes. Our "special" tank mitigation stat, absorbtion is horrible in pvp, we are the same as a heavy armor wearing merc/commando.

 

While it's true they have the same base armor mitigation you do, you have considerably better damage mitigation. Charge mastery sees to that. The 9% boost you get against most classes major attacks is pretty significant. Assassin tanks are one of the harder targets for my sentinel to generate big damage numbers against, while I tear through mercs and commandos.

 

That whole argument is kind of off track from the original topic of this post though. Tracer missile and grav round are imbalanced. I'd also say that looking at the talent tree's they are taken from that they are not working as intended.

 

Anyone with a decent knowledge of MMO combat mechanics can see that those abilities are intended to be used to set up high damage bursts with other abilities, yet it is entirely possible to kill targets using nothing else. Personally I think that there are several talents that currently buff tracer missile and grav round that probably shouldn't (resource use reduction and crit damage buff come to mind), and the base damage may be a shade too high.

[Lazirus-]

wow fail OP.

 

TM hits for 2k not 3k. There are rare exceptions but even with full champgear it rarely gets in the 3k range.

 

The 3k's you might be seeing are heatseeker and railshot, which the merc had to build up, because you fail at interrupting.

 

Because clearly every class has a ranged interrupt, and anybody being attacked by Tracer Missile/Grav Round in any situation that has ever existed, ever, should make it their top priority to drop whatever they're doing and go out of their way to close the distance and interrupt Tracer Missile/Grav Round.

 

You'll get yours, and it will be a glorious day whenever that happens.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Lazirus-

[ugig]

Forgive me if I don't have a Merc or commando and for being confused between the different knockbacks, I simply called it an uppercut knockback + slow coz... well, that's what it looks like. Also, I think that person who said "AND THEY CAN HEAL THEMSELVES" was referring to the heal-specced/tracer-specced hybrid - the big heal becomes pretty quick and a crit can heal them for more than 50% health. As for what they said about mercs having the armor of a tank... well, no, they don't. They're highly vulnerable to the 2 damage types armor doesn't give and are still moderately squishy.

 

dont get me wrong, they do have an uppercut knockback when talented for it, but its animation is different than the one with the slow, and its knockback distance is laughable at best.

 

You do come with a workable point about hybrid bodyguard/arsenal specs, as a full arsenal spec i tear my hair out about all the nerf tracer spam posts, but these might just be hybrid speccers, TM would be all they had worth while for dps so yea they would spam it alot, perhaps the answer would be to move tracer up the arsenal tree a bit farther to keep hybrids from being able to heal that well and use TM as well, cause with 31 points in arsenal I certainly dont heal worth a darn.

[bamsmacked]

Learn to interrupt

 

Bioware intended you to use your skills against human players instead of pretending like you're grinding NPC mobs.

 

My interrupt CD is 8 seconds, which means I can only interrupt half of their tracer missiles.

 

It's not like we can sit and interrupt every single attack, hell if that was the case Mercs and Troopers would be no problem at all.

 

Furthermore have you ever thought to consider that we're not close enough to interrupt?

 

The range is 30 meters dude and not all classes have a pulling or jumping ability. By the time you get on them they already have 3 stacks of tracer, rail shot buff, and armor increase. Not to mention 5-8k dmg dealt to you. A lot easier said then done man, tracer missile and grav round is the 1 button I win button.

 

It does need a nerf, but I just think the range needs to be decreased. Melee classes are at a severe disadvantage when so many classes can kill you with 30m ranged abilities before you can even touch them which is ridiculous. Not to mention the Trooper and Merc have close-quarters abilities that Sentinels and Guardians need.

Edited February 1, 2012 by bamsmacked

[ugig]

My interrupt CD is 8 seconds, which means I can only interrupt half of their tracer missiles.

 

It's not like we can sit and interrupt every single attack, hell if that was the case Mercs and Troopers would be no problem at all.

 

Furthermore have you ever thought to consider that we're not close enough to interrupt?

 

The range is 30 meters dude and not all classes have a pulling or jumping ability. By the time you get on them they already have 3 stacks of tracer, rail shot buff, and armor increase. Not to mention 5-8k dmg dealt to you. A lot easier said then done man, tracer missile and grav round is the 1 button I win button.

 

It does need a nerf, but I just think the range needs to be decreased. Melee classes are at a severe disadvantage when so many classes can kill you with 30m ranged abilities before you can even touch them which is ridiculous. Not to mention the Trooper and Merc have close-quarters abilities that Sentinels and Guardians need.

 

What class/ac are you?

[DarthBloodloss]

yet it is entirely possible to kill targets using nothing else

 

Its also entirely possible to kill people with just rapid shots but that doesn't make it overpowered.

 

Whats wrong with tracer?

 

1) 1200-1500 damage is too high?

 

2) It casts too fast?

 

3) Its spammable

 

Should it be less damage, cast slower, and have a cooldown so that we have no attacks to use for 5-10 seconds at a time?

[Kuari]

Its also entirely possible to kill people with just rapid shots but that doesn't make it overpowered.

 

I'd like to see you try that with any measure of success. Go on, do it.

[ugig]

Its also entirely possible to kill people with just rapid shots but that doesn't make it overpowered.

 

Whats wrong with tracer?

 

1) 1200-1500 damage is too high?

 

2) It casts too fast?

 

3) Its spammable

 

Should it be less damage, cast slower, and have a cooldown so that we have no attacks to use for 5-10 seconds at a time?

 

I think some people feel it should be all these things, turn us into pillow lobbing target dummies that they can wtfpwn and make themselves feel better about their skill level.

[Machazareel]

Because clearly every class has a ranged interrupt, and anybody being attacked by Tracer Missile/Grav Round in any situation that has ever existed, ever, should make it their top priority to drop whatever they're doing and go out of their way to close the distance and interrupt Tracer Missile/Grav Round.

 

You'll get yours, and it will be a glorious day whenever that happens.

 

Hey guys, this class attacked me while I was doing some else and continued to do damage to me while I did nothing about it, and for some reason I died. NERF!

Edited February 1, 2012 by Machazareel

[Chaede]

I think some people feel it should be all these things, turn us into pillow lobbing target dummies that they can wtfpwn and make themselves feel better about their skill level.

 

I find this amusing. It is really sad when people say that only bad players are spamming this ability but worry that it might be nerfed as clearly they must be using it a lot themselves or else they wouldn't really be worrying about it.

 

The problem is that while it may not take a lot of skill to LoS or interrupt (of course my interrupt is on a much longer cd than the lock out but nevermind that) it takes less skill to pick a high point and spam 1 button. There in lies the problem. A 1 button spec should not be as effective as it currently is. Whether or not it can be interrupted and locked out 30% of the time it is still too effective for 1 button spec. I can't believe people are defending such a boring playstyle as valid.

 

I am not saying the damage should be nerfed I just feel like the spec is bad and too effective for 1 button gameplay. Tracer/grav round spec needs to be changed up a bit. As it is it is a really bad, turret, 1 ability spam spec. Its boring to play (unless you like seeing big numbers for little work) it takes no imagination or thought to play it halfway decently.

 

Increase the cast time to 2.5 seconds and give one of their other abilities a chance to make it instant so they at least have to rotate it. That or change the buffs/debuffs from talents to work off other abilities. Force some kind of variance in skill usage and rotation to be effective. Compare tracer/grav round effectiveness to what it takes to be equally effective as a mara/senti. Those guys balance a hell of a lot of buttons and cooldowns to be good and I can tell the difference on my Vanguard between a good Mara and a bad one. I find it much harder to tell any difference between 1 spamming merc and the next.

[Chaede]

Hey guys, this class attacked me while I was doing some else and continued to do damage to me while I did nothing about it, and for some reason I died. NERF!

 

You prove my point. You ignore the argument on not every class has a decent ranged interrupt with a totally irrelevant point. You fail to say why a boring single button spam should be as effective as it is. Clearly you are a spammer.

[DarthBloodloss]

I find this amusing. It is really sad when people say that only bad players are spamming this ability but worry that it might be nerfed as clearly they must be using it a lot themselves or else they wouldn't really be worrying about it.

 

The problem is that while it may not take a lot of skill to LoS or interrupt (of course my interrupt is on a much longer cd than the lock out but nevermind that) it takes less skill to pick a high point and spam 1 button. There in lies the problem. A 1 button spec should not be as effective as it currently is. Whether or not it can be interrupted and locked out 30% of the time it is still too effective for 1 button spec.

 

The actual problem is uninformed people who think Mercs only use Tracer Missile. Your whole argument is way off because you don't play a Merc and you don't know how they work.

 

All the other Merc attacks have a cooldown. You know, the strong attacks. This is our "filler" attack that is most commonly used while we wait for cooldowns.

 

But the other attacks are insta-cast and no one notices the heatseeker hitting them for 5k or 6k. Since tracer is channeled and causes a lot of visual attention, you think tracer is the only thing hitting you.

 

Heatseeker / Unload can hit for almost double of tracer damage. Railshot hits for more than tracer as well. Why not ask for those to be nerfed too?

Edited February 1, 2012 by DarthBloodloss

[Buddhalux]

I find this amusing. It is really sad when people say that only bad players are spamming this ability but worry that it might be nerfed as clearly they must be using it a lot themselves or else they wouldn't really be worrying about it.

 

The problem is that while it may not take a lot of skill to LoS or interrupt (of course my interrupt is on a much longer cd than the lock out but nevermind that) it takes less skill to pick a high point and spam 1 button. There in lies the problem. A 1 button spec should not be as effective as it currently is. Whether or not it can be interrupted and locked out 30% of the time it is still too effective for 1 button spec. I can't believe people are defending such a boring playstyle as valid.

 

I am not saying the damage should be nerfed I just feel like the spec is bad and too effective for 1 button gameplay. Tracer/grav round spec needs to be changed up a bit. As it is it is a really bad, turret, 1 ability spam spec. Its boring to play (unless you like seeing big numbers for little work) it takes no imagination or thought to play it halfway decently.

 

Increase the cast time to 2.5 seconds and give one of their other abilities a chance to make it instant so they at least have to rotate it. That or change the buffs/debuffs from talents to work off other abilities. Force some kind of variance in skill usage and rotation to be effective. Compare tracer/grav round effectiveness to what it takes to be equally effective as a mara/senti. Those guys balance a hell of a lot of buttons and cooldowns to be good and I can tell the difference on my Vanguard between a good Mara and a bad one. I find it much harder to tell any difference between 1 spamming merc and the next.

 

You obviously haven't read much of these whine posts. We keep telling all you uneducated sheeple that the whole arsenal line is built around TM as the primer and Unload/HSM as a finisher. So if TM is adjusted it throws EVERYTHING ELSE out of whack and would require major skill reworking. You're just pissed that some idiot can nuke you down with 2 buttons in a minimum of 5.6 seconds (RS is an instant) without you bothering to do anything about it. The spec can be boring if you only hit 1 button. Like I've said before and even posted up my generic rotation that a decent merc will use 5-6 abilities if not more on a target.

[diogolp]

I find this amusing. It is really sad when people say that only bad players are spamming this ability but worry that it might be nerfed as clearly they must be using it a lot themselves or else they wouldn't really be worrying about it.

 

The problem is that while it may not take a lot of skill to LoS or interrupt (of course my interrupt is on a much longer cd than the lock out but nevermind that) it takes less skill to pick a high point and spam 1 button. There in lies the problem. A 1 button spec should not be as effective as it currently is. Whether or not it can be interrupted and locked out 30% of the time it is still too effective for 1 button spec. I can't believe people are defending such a boring playstyle as valid.

 

I am not saying the damage should be nerfed I just feel like the spec is bad and too effective for 1 button gameplay. Tracer/grav round spec needs to be changed up a bit. As it is it is a really bad, turret, 1 ability spam spec. Its boring to play (unless you like seeing big numbers for little work) it takes no imagination or thought to play it halfway decently.

 

Increase the cast time to 2.5 seconds and give one of their other abilities a chance to make it instant so they at least have to rotate it. That or change the buffs/debuffs from talents to work off other abilities. Force some kind of variance in skill usage and rotation to be effective. Compare tracer/grav round effectiveness to what it takes to be equally effective as a mara/senti. Those guys balance a hell of a lot of buttons and cooldowns to be good and I can tell the difference on my Vanguard between a good Mara and a bad one. I find it much harder to tell any difference between 1 spamming merc and the next.

 

So you and your team allowed a ranged dps to get exclusive control of the higher ground and then complain that you can't simply ignore it because the dps class does damage?

 

I'd say working as intended.

 

Arsenal mercs have very little utility, very little mobility, and very little counters to cc. Damage is what makes up for that.

 

The idea that a dps class shouldn't be able to kill you if you allow it to have better positioning and ignore it is just silly.

[Halbe]

You obviously haven't read much of these whine posts. We keep telling all you uneducated sheeple that the whole arsenal line is built around TM as the primer and Unload/HSM as a finisher. So if TM is adjusted it throws EVERYTHING ELSE out of whack and would require major skill reworking. You're just pissed that some idiot can nuke you down with 2 buttons in a minimum of 5.6 seconds (RS is an instant) without you bothering to do anything about it. The spec can be boring if you only hit 1 button. Like I've said before and even posted up my generic rotation that a decent merc will use 5-6 abilities if not more on a target.

 

God, you remind me of a Sabetour in Rift.

 

"Any GOOD Sab will use more than just sticky bomb (can't remember the skill name) and detonate. We use LOTS of skills."

 

That's not the point. Get that through you're head.

 

I don't care how many buttons you COULD use.

 

The point is that it is perfectly plausible for a person using 1 button to, seemingly, put out as much DPS as some builds good rotations. There are reasons we don't have combat logs. I'm guessing this is one of them.

 

It's a broken skill. You keep defending it in the context as the entire rotation. Good for you. You use other skills.

 

That doesn't fix the fact that this one skill is broken.

[ugig]

I find this amusing. It is really sad when people say that only bad players are spamming this ability but worry that it might be nerfed as clearly they must be using it a lot themselves or else they wouldn't really be worrying about it.

 

The problem is that while it may not take a lot of skill to LoS or interrupt (of course my interrupt is on a much longer cd than the lock out but nevermind that) it takes less skill to pick a high point and spam 1 button. There in lies the problem. A 1 button spec should not be as effective as it currently is. Whether or not it can be interrupted and locked out 30% of the time it is still too effective for 1 button spec. I can't believe people are defending such a boring playstyle as valid.

 

I am not saying the damage should be nerfed I just feel like the spec is bad and too effective for 1 button gameplay. Tracer/grav round spec needs to be changed up a bit. As it is it is a really bad, turret, 1 ability spam spec. Its boring to play (unless you like seeing big numbers for little work) it takes no imagination or thought to play it halfway decently.

 

Increase the cast time to 2.5 seconds and give one of their other abilities a chance to make it instant so they at least have to rotate it. That or change the buffs/debuffs from talents to work off other abilities. Force some kind of variance in skill usage and rotation to be effective. Compare tracer/grav round effectiveness to what it takes to be equally effective as a mara/senti. Those guys balance a hell of a lot of buttons and cooldowns to be good and I can tell the difference on my Vanguard between a good Mara and a bad one. I find it much harder to tell any difference between 1 spamming merc and the next.

 

The point many of us are trying to make is that it isnt a one button spec and the only reason anyone can be effective using that one button is because you let them.

 

To be truly effective vs anyone with a little bit of PvP skill you have to use TM+Railshot+HSM+Unload+rapid shots + knock back x2 and stun not to mention if you see a grp, using death from above, thermal sensor override, power surge, and fusion missile and toss in a bit of explosive dart for good measure. If you find a way to squeeze all that into one button let me know

[Lazirus-]

Hey guys, this class attacked me while I was doing some else and continued to do damage to me while I did nothing about it, and for some reason I died. NERF!

 

You are hurting your case, more than helping it.