What would make lethality good?

[Reiina]

I have been since a week ago trying lethality out and I think there is something wrong with the spec.

 

The first thing that is wrong is the range I think. Both dots have a 30m range, the 2 spec abilities have a 10m range and you have to use shiv which is melee and I personally use backstab as a filler(which is melee and from behind). It basically makes the class melee when it could be sort of an in-between the cc close range and the sniper. Giving us something to use at 10m range to gain tactical advantage could do the trick(or some kind of timer on criticals from dots, like a chance to get one tactical advantage every x seconds).

 

The second problem I have is the fact that unlike concealment ops, you don't get any tactical advantage back. Cc ops gets a chance to get tactical advantage back from eviscerate every x seconds(sorry can't be bothered to check the timing), which they can use on stim boost. In lethality using a stim boost completely messes up the rotation imo.

This problem is that the lethality ops need that extra energy regen even more than cc ops as our dots cost a lot and you want both of them on at all times(and we don't get anything like free backstab).

 

Feel free to post your opinions/ideas .

 

edit:

Sorry, meant to post that in the operative forum, fail .

Edited February 3, 2012 by Reiina

[Vallowen]

more survivability

lower CD on weakening blast

another way to get TA

[AlexanderWolf]

I would love to have another way to get TA and maybe a better version of shield probe (have to use it every time its up and i still feel like paper). Lethality feels a lot more like a pve tree than a pvp one, getting a nice rotation going can take time especially while getting cc'ed and tossed around by sages/inquisitors and what not.

 

I have thought about the dots having a chance to give ta which would help a lot with keeping up a nice even rotation, also a way to refresh dots effectively and tie THAT it into tactical advantage maybe?

 

ultimately

 

pve

-better dot management

-Another way to get ta

 

pvp

-survivability (passive or otherwise)

-slight boost in dot damage to counteract lack of burst and control compared to other classes? maybe?

Edited February 1, 2012 by AlexanderWolf

[Endusima]

Been playing Lethalithy since the start and I'm generally satisified with how the tree is working out except the 31-talent. With a 10m range it is pointless to use it in PvP, shiv+cull is always better.

 

Maybe worthwhile in pve but not in pvp.

[Ginnem]

-Along with the low TA generation others have mentioned, I also find the spec seems heavy on the Energy usage. I think reducing the baseline Energy cost of Cull and then re-designing the License to Kill talent to something that would increase TA regeneration would go a long way.

 

-Some sort of DoT protection would be really, really nice.

 

-From a pure quality of life perspective, I think Cull is placed too high in the tree. The simple solution is just switching Corrosive Grenade and Cull's positions in the tree, though Corrosive Grenade would make kind of a meh 20-point talent. Kind of a huge step here, but I like the idea of making Corrosive Grenade baseline, moving Cull and Weakening Blast down to 10 and 20 point talents respectively and giving us a new ability at the top of the tree.

 

-Devouring Microbes is pretty boring and maybe a bit weak for being so high in the tree.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Ginnem

[Achmed]

Been playing Lethalithy since the start and I'm generally satisified with how the tree is working out except the 31-talent. With a 10m range it is pointless to use it in PvP, shiv+cull is always better.

 

Maybe worthwhile in pve but not in pvp.

 

duuuuude, ... weakening blast makes your cull hit 30% harder. how can this not be worthwhile?

 

PS: another ranged TA generator + a gap closer of some sort and this class would be fine. cant complain about surviveablitiy to be honest. just dotn stand still and do nothing.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Achmed

[atramiasma]

I have been playing lethality a lot in pvp. I speced healer and concealment for a long time too. Basicaly i have tried all three specs and hybrid specs.

 

 

healer is def the op spec if you want to thrive in pvp.

 

 

 

i have been using and enjoying lethality in pvp. Its an art to play since your moves involve going in and out of 10m range. i always come back to lethality and plan on staying. Its a challenge but its cool.

 

my advice

 

 

when you get snared/stunned/rooted or they just run to far and fast.

 

 

hop in cover and drop your probe(damage) and take some snipe shots. that mixed with your dot damage can actually be pretty effective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

otherwise...yes give us ta for weakening blast. why the hell would i put 31 points in lethality for such a minor buff to my dots? ( i am speced 31 in lethality...just being sarcastic.) the move is def underpowered and needs more damage or TA activation.

 

 

 

also both SI, BH, or operative concealment can dps way faster/stronger. I expect to lose in most encounters. DEVS BOOST THIS SPEC!!

 

 

ROGUE WARLOCK COMBO IS DOPE!!!! JUST GIVE US SOME MORE DPS SO I CAN SPIT IN INQUISITORS FACES

 

 

NOTHING LIKE KILLING FORCE SENSATIVES

[PeterAAA]

I was thinking how about a talent change that allows Overload shots to build up TA in Lethality. It would fit with the mid to long range attacks of the tree and it would make Overload shot more useful. Instead of being an inefficient energy hog IMO.

[Endusima]

duuuuude, ... weakening blast makes your cull hit 30% harder. how can this not be worthwhile?

 

PS: another ranged TA generator + a gap closer of some sort and this class would be fine. cant complain about surviveablitiy to be honest. just dotn stand still and do nothing.

 

 

No, Weakening Blast only affects dots.

[Taliknor]

Gads... L2P

 

Toss both poisons at 30, your 'nade at 15, a normal shot at 10, shiv and cull... and you've already iniated an easy 14k damage on a mediocore run in pve non-elite lvl 50.

 

Stim boost isn't part of any rotation per se, it's better used as a rotation filler to compensate and acquire a longer energy regen when you are doing burst damage. (instead of normal shot.)

 

Boss fights, you throw in a stun/cc toss orbital strike, pop your stim for the rotation delay, cull, shiv, cull, adrenal cull cull, stim and you've yielded considerable damage in just a few seconds. The adrenal is required because this rotation drops you down to 0 energy. Adrenal pops you up to 3 bars and produces enough initial gain for re-starting the normal single target rotation because your poison dots are now gone. Pop another stim and you should be rocking at about 90% energy. You then wish Orbital strike was up already.

 

Fyi. Since your poisons are around 70-75% crit and you picked up the "gain energy from each tick options", you have an additional 3-4 energy being produced every 4 seconds or so.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Taliknor

[Avia]

Chance on dot tick to generate TA.

 

Done.

[doingtheobvious]

For PVP:

 

• More ways to generate/retain TA

• Ways to make our DOT's harder to dispel or possibly have a negative consequence for dispelling them

 

For PVE:

 

• I don't PVE so I really wouldn't know, sorry ):

[CaptainInsano]

Lethality has gaping holes in its rotation because the only way to generate TA is shiv and you have to spend it on Cull and keep Stim Boost up. It feels like a half finished spec tbh. An easy fix would be to make a talent give DoTs a 30% chance to proc TA just like the HoT version in Medicine. That's assuming BW actually gives a crap about the least played spec of the least played class.

[Erenax]

Speaking from an Operative perspective, I like these ideas:

 

1) Adding a talent to increase Range of Overload Shot, Cull, and Weakening Blast to 15 meters. Maybe tack it on to the Cut Down talent.

2) Adding a talent to give Corrosive Dart a chance to proc TA ala Medical Engineering in the Medicine tree. Add it to or replace the Lethal Injectors talent.

3) Turn Cull into a single damage hit (for Valor medal purposes) instead of separate hits.

[Khraizin]

Weakening Blast now applies TA. There, fixed.

[pairadox]

So. Ive raged. I cried. I hugged a llama. Now that Ive got all that out of my system, I respecced lethality and am working to try and figure out how to make it work well with me. However, there a few things Ive noticed about the spec, in regards to the operative class.

 

1) Lethality isnt really a stealth spec.

This probably goes without saying to some extent. However, lethality isnt really specced or geared towards taking advantage of the stealth abilities you gain on your operative.

 

Backstab is neither cost effective, nor does it really have a place or point in the rotation of this spec. And honestly, if Hidden Strike wasnt one of the only two abilities that granted TA, it really wouldnt be worthwhile either. (and even if you do spec into the crit boost on either one, you lack the initial control of the talented hidden strike. You really are better off, not letting someone get close to you, if at all possible.)

 

However, there is a problem with that.

 

2) Lethality is the oddest spec I have ever seen.

The range is between 30 and 10 meters for abilities. However, in order to get a TA for your cull you're going to have to close to 4 meters. This is completely counter intuitive when you think about it. DOTS need time to work. The one thing you wont get, when closing with a melee class is time. It essentially forces you to give up a real advantage to lead into your hardest hitting shot.

 

3) Its Dots, dots and more dots. You have 2 dots. Both dots can be cleansed with one button push. This can essentially negate your damage, especially when on of them is on a cd. So.... your really down to one spammable dot which can be removed as fast as its cast, which for the most part, can completely negate your damage in pvp.

 

4) Lethality is an energy hog.

It is. Period. Dots are expensive. Cull is expensive. Weakening blast is expensive. Adrenaline Probe is on a cd, and stim isnt really all that impressive. Your gonna chew through your energy pretty quick. What gets really expensive is having to recast dots.

 

Ok.. so for me, I had some thoughts about things to change the tree. Bear in mind these are my opinions, based on my own skewed vision of the world. I am by no means claiming authority or superior intellect. Just tossing it out there for people to chew on.

 

A) Range- 3 unique specs. 1 is a healer, the second is melee, why not make the third a mid ranged. Sort of black ops assault opertaive-ish. Up the range on weakening and cull to between say 15 and 20. It doesnt have the range of snipers (not even close), but its more range than the unspecced operative has. It gives more mobility, and doesnt force the player into melee range.

 

B) Dots- Somewhere add a talent in there that makes them give a portion of damage for being yanked off. Then its more of a strategic thing rather than the mindless cleanse spam, which makes your dots ineffective. Make the percent of damage increase with however many charges are left on weakening blast. Further, that talent could have an offshoot that refunds a percentage of energy if a dot is cleansed.

 

C) You could completely revamp the tree, and make it into a mobility spec for both snipers and operatives. Again, a midranged, blaster rifle oriented spec. You could get rid of the dot aspect all together, and go with a more uitlity spec. Debuffs, and moderate damage.

 

For instance, remove caustic grenade, culling shot, and weakening blast. In their place, add in say...

 

Precision Shot 15 m, x amount of energy. A precision shot to an enemy lowering their damage output by x% for 10 seconds. on a 20 seocnd cooldwon. Requires Tactical Advantage.

 

Gut shot 15m, x amt of energy. A well placed blast to the stomach, causing internal bleeding over time. Cannot be removed. X amount of damage over 10 seconds, on a 20 second cooldown. Requires Tactical Advantage.

 

 

Suppressive Volley- 15, x amt of energy. A quick volley of aimed shots, lowering the accuracy of the target by x%. Now... for this shot, you could do it one of two ways. Channel it and have the debuff only active during the channel. Or casting time of like say 1.5 seconds, on a cooldown of say six seconds, granting a Tactical advantage or perhaps 2, if its channeled.

 

Anyways, just some thoughts.

[Bellatrix]

I would like a change to overload shot 5s cooldown + it builds TA.

[Konkeroar]

Change Weakening Blast to a 6 second cooldown, make it generate TA, and make it share a cooldown with Shiv (it would replace shiv at this point for lethality).

 

Up the range of cull, weakening blast, and overload shot by 5 meters.

 

Add a talent to reduce the energy cost (possibly up the damage a little?) of overload shot.

 

Make Cull add 6 seconds to the duration of your DoTs on the target.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Konkeroar

[AlexanderWolf]

I like some of Pairadox's suggestions, Hoenstly lethality is what I wanted to play since i first saw the whole description for agents. It's supposed to be the mid range special ops tree for operatives but its such an oddly designed tree with counter intuitive abilities.

 

Lethality could do with better energy management for sure so i dont have to spend so much time using your psuedo auto attack in order to do damage while recharging energy. The shiv thing is probably the worst though since every ability wants you to be in that 10m range but to make anything actually work you have to run up ang give your enemy a big old hug in order to shiv.

 

any number of abilities could be reworked to give ta

as some have said

-weakening blast

-overload shot

-corrosive grenade/dart

 

honestly might as well give both flash grenade and maybe debilitate a chance to grant ta so it can be chained in pvp giving us more of a fluid combat style while dealing damaging and stunning foes moving back and forward between defense and offense.

[SilverGriffon]

I have a hybrid heal/lethality spec, it's an interesting combination. I get TA from probes which is nice but overall it could be better and use some tweaking. My best ability gained from lethality maxes out at Cull. I would like it if imperial brew was in lethality or included corrosive grenade buff. I'll post a Link to my build later, it's not working at the moment. The build is 18/0/23 though if anyone feels like trying something similar.

[Sylriana]

The people with all the giant posts I think are overthinking the issue I think. The tree doesn't need to be fundamentally remade. There doesn't need to be any dramatic or complex reimagination of talents. Two changes:

 

-Give the spec TA generation at range. Possibly from poison ticks.

-Give Cull and Weakening Blast 20-30m of range. Maybe even throw in Overload shot ( possibly through a talent in the tree ) in there too.

 

With those two changes alone. PvE and PvP viability go way up, and the spec gains a unique niche in the Operative tree ( some of the other suggestions I see would just turn it into a variation on concealment, especially for PvE, rather than something wholly unique ).

 

If you're going to change anything past that, simply one more:

 

-Some form of dispel protection/defense. Probably through dispel resistance or dispel detonation.

-Make Corrosive Microbes actually work

 

And if you want a bunch of less important changes to throw in too:

-Make Deadly Directive less terrible for Operatives.

-Let some high tier talent give Overload shot a 15/20/25/30m range ( I mentioned it earlier, but only as a maybe )

-Make Countermeasures actually work as the tooltip implies ( it doesn't actually remove a lot of movement impairing effects because they're classified as other things )

-Make Tier 6 lethality talents less lame.

[-Solaris]

As of right now, does anybody know which class is better with Lethality in PvP? (particularly in 1v1s) Sniper or Operative? I'm not asking if it's viable in anyway in PvP, just which advanced class would you rather be if you were to play Lethality. Edited February 3, 2012 by -Solaris

[Erenax]

Probably Operative. If you're Sniper, I'm not sure why you'd use Lethality over Marksmanship.

[-Solaris]

Probably Operative. If you're Sniper, I'm not sure why you'd use Lethality over Marksmanship.

 

Because the player likes mobility and doesn't want to be a turret? Like I said, I want to know what people think about Operative vs. Sniper in Lethality PvP, not Lethality vs. Marksman.

Edited February 3, 2012 by -Solaris

[Azarii]

Chance on dot tick to generate TA.

 

Done.

 

This or weakening blast granting a TA as well.