SWTOR was promising. I liked it untill now.

[WoodyDave]

I love all the "you rushed lawl" posts people keep throwing out....

 

 

You act like this game is hard and leveling takes long. I work 8 - 10 hours a day, and I hit 50 in about a month.

[Rahl_Windsong]

I think the OP has basically a decent post, however some of the things he is saying about WoW were not there at launch. Like for instance the ARENA. I am not saying I liked the arena but it was something like 4 or 6 years after launch before we saw it in WoW.

 

Also the first year I am not to sure there were a lot of Holliday perks either...and some of the other points.

 

As for Rift, I never played it and can't really comment there.

[Noyjitat]

I like our current game. I agree things like arenas are needed and a few other points you've made but I certainly don't want to see things like rep grinds added. Isn't social 10 enough? Leave wow where it is.

 

I like wow but I unsubbed wow for this game I put it behind me; I don't want to see half of its systems make it to this game. I like the uniqueness here.... Take that away from this game and all that will be unique about it is the voice overs and dialogue cut-scenes.

 

This game is still new and I'm not making excuses for the dev team or whomever was in charge of making the choices for what gets added and what gets held back.

 

Now there are alot of things I want to see added though. I really really still want repeatable conversations with companions; more with the one that Im married to. Bring on chapter 4 and beyond; I can't wait to see more class stories. More variations in gear and customization. Expanded space including more ships and weapons and open space instead of only the current tunnel system we fly around in. Expand the customization more... I want to change my hair, maybe my lashes, eyes or face.

[Velsix]

amen OP, +10 couldn't have said it better myself. this game feels NOTHING like the sense of community I felt in WoW and even in Rift, and even the frustrations I felt in both of those games weren't as bad as what I have experienced with SWTOR

[Baaddare]

Hello

 

I got to level fifty about one month ago from now and I couldn't stop bragging about how amazing this game was. I was on these forums daily trying to fight away the people who hate this game and making suggestions for end game. Quite simply you can call me blinded and obsessed. I couldn't face denial that this game actually is bad.

 

Here I am now then telling you why I dislike the game and seeing if I can relate to those who back up this game that had promise but has lost it.

 

1) PvP:

PvP was promising. Huttball was new and enjoyable (imo) and the other two warzones were attractive and easy to get used to. However after playing these same three warzones over and over with no differentiation is a drag. Especially having to get to valor 60 for the best gear simply either farming rare empire kills in illum (I say rare because each one I attack has 5 people on back-up behind them) or farming those three warzones alot!!

 

"Why can you not play this game just because you enjoy playing?" I did enjoy playing but come on, be logical. Doing the same three things over and over simply doesn't maintain it's excitement.

 

2) PvE: Just flashpoint after flashpoint and the only reason to do it is for the gear piece at the end to be traded for columi. No decent gear any other way. Flashpoint drops were terrible. Took forever to find a full group even tho its only 4 man. No reputation gains to buy gear from reputation vendors etc. Just a boring one way street.

 

The reasons behind why WoW was enjoyable with PvP

• Dueling in durotar/elwynn added competitiveness against own faction. Cannot happen here because there is no dueling area within 10 seconds from the main part of the fleet without going through a loading screen.
  
• Arena. Yes arena added excitement to PvP and added competition. I enjoy competition and therefore is why SWTOR has lost its edge for me. No matter how much you hate arena it is still better than anything SWTOR has to offer at this moment. It consists of rewards if you are good and is not dependant on others. It feels personal to you making a team. Just endless hours could be spent trying to increase rating and the feeling of winning was great.
  
• Ratings for arena and battleground groups. Added competition and elitism. Made the community thrive in a bad or good way. Depends how you think about it.
  
• Battleground were alot larger than SWTORs and added an MMO feel to it. Mounting included.
  

 

The reasons behind why WoW was enjoyable with PvE

• It didn't just involve token rewards from dungeons. The actual gear from dungeons was useful. Made people have a sense of excitement when killing a boss waiting for loot to drop. Wasn't free access to token gear at the end of each dungeon.
  
• The token grind for gear that was worth XXXX amount of tokens wasn't long. It was only 2 weeks of lock time or so. Compared to SWTOR this is short.
  
• One of my favorite features of WoW when it was in WoW was the daily heroic where you had to kill a specific boss in a specific dungeon.
  
• Dungeon finder was easy to use and using it gave rewards.
  

 

The reasons why WoW was enjoyable

• Community was larger and auction house was thriving. Had an actual economy. Felt good.
  
• Events that took place when events took palce in reality. E.G christmas events that gave you decent rewards from doing christmas stuff or valentines day etc etc.
  
• You could re-do you characters hair style at the barbers.
  
• Professions felt great once they were leveled to the max. Felt like you achieved something.
  
• Fishing, Archaeology, First aid etc
  
• You could attack the enemy cities. Also attack towns and cities alone as long as you avoided elites because guards were only normal mobs. In SWTOR guards are champions for most places.
  
• Flying mounts
  
• Quick travel with portals.
  
• Daily quest zone had dailys close together and it interacted with opposite faction. So it could also be pvp. Zones were small and easy to complete. Not a drag. Illum daily area doesn't have much zones shared with imperial and is quite the drag in illum.
  
• Guilds had reputation/amazing rewards for being exalted with guild. Heirlooms to level alts with. Mounts etc.
  
• The ammount of gear varied massively and it wasn't allways the vendor gear that was the best. Unlike SWTOR where you can only rely on vendor gear.
  

 

The reasons why Rift was enjoyable for me (I played no part in pvp so I have no idea what it is like)

• Frequent world events / updates. Rifts opened and invasions happened where community would group up.
  
• Zones were shared with opposite faction at higher level instead of split into two halves.
  
• PvE gear was aquired only from bosses. Vendor gear was not necessary the best gear again. Also crafted gear was good and there was crafting daily/weekly.
  
• Crafting was updated frequently
  
• Training dummys
  
• Multiple currencys from rifts. Allowed purchase of gear that could be used at end-game level.
  
• Reputation mounts.
  
• Reputation
  
• 10-man instances were completely different to 25-man. 10 man rifts were available and 5 man.
  
• two tiers of dungeon at launch.
  
• and more!
  

 

well lets see unlike wow you can dual anywhere in this game in wow you had to find a spot without guards not so here which is why you see people dualing alot up on the fleet. WoW did not even how any bg when it launched and when they first added them they only had 3. unlike wow they already have more wz in the works. Unlike wow we have open areas where mass teams of a faction can fight one another. . Here we have mutiple titles which people can proudly display to show what lvl they have gained. The First 3 BG were about the same size as what we have now. WoW did not have areas like Ilum to pvp in and still does not.

 

Why is SWTOR pvp better than wow? BW did not create a forced neutral balance of classes. Thus the pvp is more challanging and requires better tactics and skill.

 

 

not sure where you think rewards are token from FP there gear it good and usefull and can grow with you if you like the look of a set. a Very novel approach i applaud Since you seem to think that bosses do not drop loot in FP i can only assume you have never done a FP (since FP here = dungeons in wow).

 

LFG here could use some refinement but it is not hard to use at all. you just type in LFG in the search menue and you get everyone there is on your server lfg no matter where they are. Unlike in wow here you have the oportunity to then decide who to group with or to convince someone that was lfg but not the FP you wanted to join with you. WoW Dungeon finder only added rewards to try to correct a player imbalance which has not reared its ugly head here yet

 

SWTOR server have far larger comunity of players on them than wow does on its. Does wow have an overall larger population yes it does although it has been shrinking at an alarming rate the past year. Add into that the fact that over half of WoW's number come from China where SWTOR is not avaiable it would be hard for SWTOR to match wow numbers. Hell SWTOR is not even offered in Aussie land or for that mater most of Europe yet it managed to break all of WoW initial sale and sub records.

 

Since this game launched the week of Christmas I think it would have been odd to have a festival for it let alone would they celebrate it in a galaxy far far away

 

We have fleet pass and quick travel here along with taxis you can get from one end of this galaxy to the other end alot faster than you could travel from one end of the planet wow is on to the other.

 

There are "flying mounts" here in this game they just do not fly over mnts and such. We have LS/DS with rewards which is similuar to the rep rewards in wow with more being added. Unlike wow we have social rewards to reward grouping not just inside dungeosn but anywhere

 

I could go on and on but I am not sure how the OP posts here as he has clearly not played this game.

[xSighKo]

Hmm.. WoW = Boredom.

 

Let me explain why.. In WoW all you do is GRIND instances non stop to get gear. That is insanely boring. You can't even raid until you're "Geared". WoW PVP/Arena.. same thing over and over grind for honor/valor. I believe every MMO is a grind, correct me if i'm wrong but your points aren't really valid. However I do agree with the dueling thing, I would like to see an area to duel in the fleet.

 

Would be sick if they got rid of the vip section up top and just make it a dueling sanctuary.

[DarthKhaos]

Saying WOW is not casual friendly ??!?!?!

Oh My God

 

Most casual friendly mmo in existence

I think you misunderstood. He's not saying WoW is NOT casual friendly he's saying SW:TOR is MORE casual friendly.

 

 

I love all the "you rushed lawl" posts people keep throwing out....

 

 

You act like this game is hard and leveling takes long. I work 8 - 10 hours a day, and I hit 50 in about a month.

A month and a week is 2 different time frames. I laugh @ the OP because he hit 50 as fast as he could for what reason? To say he's first? No way to prove it. To get a special title? Nope. Sure as hell can't be to play with his level 50 friends. So why? Now I'm not saying he shouldn't but I'm saying he should know there would be no one to play with at level 50 in that space of time.

Right now on the 2 servers I play on (Republic & Empire) I see more 50's now and people are doing the hard modes.

 

Now development takes time and all those people who say they shouldn't of put so much effort into voice acting I say stuff it. I love it. A lot of people love it. I bought the game because that was one of the selling points. Each of my characters have a personality. To hell with alignment, to hell with affection, to hell with jedi/sith code (unless their personality is to stick to it HARD). So you want X. Give them time to develop it. They said they're giving you X. Why you still complaining. Use the tools that it got now UNTIL the newer shinier version comes out.

 

The whole there's nothing to do or no content is BS. Ain't no way you can experience everything the game has to offer in a week. I saw some posts saying "Well I don't care about the story and I don't like leveling alts and I'm not into PvP." That guy should not of touched the game. People want to compare to WoW but all the "end game" content WoW has isn't part of the old expansions it's ONLY part of the new one. Naxx? Nope in the past. Black Temple? Sorry it's a ghost raid. The only "end game" content that carries through to the other expansions are the battlegrounds.

 

Right now Huttball is getting crazy. I'm encountering more and more matches that end in a low scoring draw or a win by a small margin because people know what to do now. Players would be almost at the goal and get yanked back or killed. People getting knocked off the railing before getting to the end zone area. Ball carriers dying and the next one and then the next one and then the next one in the space of 30 seconds. It's AWESOME!

 

I can go on about not trying to squeeze every ounce of quest from a single planet as you level so when you make alts there's different quests for you to do but you can make your own choices. That's just a suggestion. Right now I got a PvP alt. That's all it does outside of class quests and I'm itching to play it more. Shame I'm @ work.

[LaVolpex]

so who necrod this?

 

anyways, i fail to see how a lot of this hasnt been said before

 

he complains about having to farm "the same 3 warzones" and how its just that , but he conveniently forgets to mention that wow pvp is exaclty the same....3 battlegrounds with 2 of them being just reskined versions of arathi basin and warsong gulch , you have to grind not only honor but also rating (there goes your other part of the argument op) and its even worse there because you either use things like mouseover macros and arena mods or you cant compete at all..

 

so yeah, wow pvp is soooooo perfect (sarcasm) we should really use it as a model for pvp in everygame in exsitence from now until the end of times...

 

/endrant

 

wow ----> way

 

PS: also , op is a perfectly good example of what a "content locust" is...no amount of content ever will please this people, they will still have " nothing to do at 50" regardless of how much content you design, they will run it once , maybe twice and then sit at fleet complaining about how they are bored out of their skulls and there arent enough 50s to play, yada yada yada, so on so forth

Edited February 9, 2012 by LaVolpex

[Embrosil]

Now development takes time and all those people who say they shouldn't of put so much effort into voice acting I say stuff it. I love it. A lot of people love it. I bought the game because that was one of the selling points. Each of my characters have a personality. To hell with alignment, to hell with affection, to hell with jedi/sith code (unless their personality is to stick to it HARD). So you want X. Give them time to develop it. They said they're giving you X. Why you still complaining. Use the tools that it got now UNTIL the newer shinier version comes out.

 

 

 

Yes, until you go to a flashpoint with one or more same character as you are and you all talk by the same voice. Yes, that is an immersion.... And I swear if I ever hear wompa again, I will break something. The voiceacting may be nice for the first play, but when you roll another character on the same side and have 99% same quests, you just skip those conversations as you heard it before. Not to mention, that your choices in conversations have ZERO effect on the game. Someone dies or survives? Nice, but no effect on the world. Either way, you will not see him/her again. Light and dark side? I have to laugh when I see a completely dark Jedi and completely light Sith. Yeah, the whole lore goes to bust.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Embrosil

[CptBrit]

Ops Post!

 

Agree with:

 

1. Dueling

2. The need for a LFG Tool (But not X-Server)

3. The need for Rated Battlegrounds. (But they are coming anyway)

4. Vanilla Alterac Valley was amazing (Before they ***** the amount of NPCs), I'd love 5. Bioware to do something like that.

6. Daily Heroic Bonus was a Good idea

7. Blizzard made their own world though where as Bioware rented one. It was nice every now and then seeing different holiday things but I wouldn't call it one of WoW's Major points

8. Attacking Towns/Cities. Loved it... World PvP at its best, well when the opposite side responded. Vanilla Hillsbrad enough said.

9. Questing in the same area. I hope for future planets they make each sides questing areas overlap A LOT more.

 

 

Don't Agree with:

1. Arena was a ball ache for everyone who didn't do it. Even Blizzard have said they wouldn't do it if they got the chance again due to balance issues.

2. The Item grind is the exact same in WoW as it is in SWTOR. Except some gear you find at level 10 you could still be using it up to level 50.

3. People whined in WoW about how fast people could get full Sets. I personally didn't raid that often but even I was nearly full raid geared towards the end of WotLK.

4. Professions, other than Enchancing and the odd Blacksmithing/Leatherworking skill were useless in WoW. At least here you can reverse engineer you stuff to make it better than anything that will drop for a while.

5. The Fact that you mention Fishing & Archaeology as good points says a lot about your personal life. They were quite literally the most boring things I've ever paid to do (Through the Sub ofc)

6. You never played pure Vanilla WoW did you? most of the guards were near max level in Vanilla WoW they could still be killed (as can SWTOR Guards!)

7. Well seeing as from WotLK onwards, ALL of the best gear could be aquired through Vendors, I know you are speaking pork pies.

8. Other than Warlock portals fast travel is a lot better in SWTOR, not talking about normal travel distance of course but multiple bind points win over one hearthpoint.

9. Heirloom gear is good and all but we have Custom gear, which is 1, easier to get and 2, isn't just linked to one look. I hated the Heirloom gear for my Hunter because Scarlet Gear looks stupid on a Hunter. With Custom Gear you can change the look and abilities with Heirloom you can't it just increases the amount they start with and your stuck with that look until you unequip it.

 

All in all I enjoyed WoW but i'm really burnt out of the Swords and Sorcery fantasy at the moment... I still haven't bought Skyrim for that exact reason. Both games have their Good and Bad points but i'm enjoying SWTOR a lot more than I've enjoyed WoW in years, maybe since Vanilla. But end games are exactly the same - other than polish and SWTORs end-game bugs - You either grind PvP or Grind PvE its really as simple as that. People keep saying WoW's End-game is amazing where as SWTORs is fail. Other than the bugs (Which will be sorted out no doubt) WoW launched with as far as I know (I wasn't there as UK launch think it was about half a year after tbh) Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair. Yea you could say "Well Bioware should know that 2 raids won't be enough" but if they added say 3, 4 or 5 instances off the bat people who just be complaining soon after saying "Herp. Wheres our content! Derp."

 

Never played Rift heard it was crap and plus... its Swords and Sorcery Yay! urgh...

 

TL;DR Agreed with OP on some points, Disagreed on others. Saying one thing in SWTOR is fail then saying the exact same formula is Win in WoW, is stupid. Both games have good and bad points.

Edited February 9, 2012 by CptBrit

[SunwindIon]

 

• It didn't just involve token rewards from dungeons. The actual gear from dungeons was useful. Made people have a sense of excitement when killing a boss waiting for loot to drop. Wasn't free access to token gear at the end of each dungeon.
  

 

 

this is what is sorely missing from SWTOR. there is no cool unique drops from bosses it's all just cookie cutter token crap, where are the epic lightsabers with special effects? things like that.

[Deisel]

Yes, until you go to a flashpoint with one or more same character as you are and you all talk by the same voice. Yes, that is an immersion.... And I swear if I ever hear wompa again, I will break something. The voiceacting may be nice for the first play, but when you roll another character on the same side and have 99% same quests, you just skip those conversations as you heard it before. Not to mention, that your choices in conversations have ZERO effect on the game. Someone dies or survives? Nice, but no effect on the world. Either way, you will not see him/her again. Light and dark side? I have to laugh when I see a completely dark Jedi and completely light Sith. Yeah, the whole lore goes to bust.

 

HA! I saw this back in beta, I was playin my BH dark, and the flashpoints choices reflected such, then i decided to dabble in a lightside SS. guess what? hardly a change to be had. But at least i get to use lightside gear... -.-

[CptBrit]

• It didn't just involve token rewards from dungeons. The actual gear from dungeons was useful. Made people have a sense of excitement when killing a boss waiting for loot to drop. Wasn't free access to token gear at the end of each dungeon.
  

 

this is what is sorely missing from SWTOR. there is no cool unique drops from bosses it's all just cookie cutter token crap, where are the epic lightsabers with special effects? things like that.

 

And where did this happen in WoW other than in the End game?

 

Yea I agree they could make items more flashy towards end game - I'm ok personally as I'm loving the Boba Fett with ******* look - but other than the odd really cool item a lot of gear in WoW was Meh... You had that Priest Staff in Vanilla that had a cool mechanic and stuff like Ragnaros's Hammer or that Lightening Sword (can't think of the name atm)... The best ones I thought were the two Swords from Illidan (Pure Epic)

 

In WotLK I must have gone through the same look shoulders at least 6 times.

 

In short, yea they need some flashier items in SWTOR but WoW's Items for the most part looked meh to ok.

 

HA! I saw this back in beta, I was playin my BH dark, and the flashpoints choices reflected such, then i decided to dabble in a lightside SS. guess what? hardly a change to be had. But at least i get to use lightside gear... -.-

 

And what about doing the exact same quest from the exact same quest givers with absolutely no chance that anything is going to change?

 

I'll take fully voiced quests over that anyday.

Edited February 9, 2012 by CptBrit

[dbillblood]

My fav game of all time was DAoC. Had great bgs all the way up. And then everyone on your cluster shared one big BG at end game. There where keeps to take....relics to capture. Half your best gear was PC. 3 factions with all diffrent toons. And a housing area where you had your own house.

 

Then WoW came Pop dropped and then they killed it by allowing realm jumping.

 

Best PvP game ever by far

[navarh]

3 battlegrounds

lie

 

cruel-truth is like this:

Alterac Valley 40 vs 40

Isle of Conquest 40 vs 40

Arathi Basin 15 vs 15

Eye of the Storm 15 vs 15

Strand of the Ancients 15 vs 15

Warsong Gulch 10 vs 10

Twin Peaks 10 vs 10

The Battle for Gilneas 10 vs 10

 

Tol barad with cap of 2 full raid in each side 160 in total

and blooody hell of Lagtergrasp (Wintergrasp) dated by now but still played

 

and its even worse there because you either use things like mouseover macros and arena mods or you cant compete at all.

lie again

macros is basic tool available to anyone, dont like them? oh maybe you don't like some of your spells and also don't use them? that is what called "bad player" same with mods

 

in short your "cant compete at all" not related to mods or macros it is normal that noob can't compete with anyone who have basic game-knowledge

Edited February 9, 2012 by navarh

[Dirtnose]

The game is very young. Give it time.

[Inixus]

To all the fanboys who jump down everyone's throat every time someone mentions WoW, let people vent. They are making post like this because they want the game to be great. They want to play it for years like they did with WoW. Like it or not, WoW is still THE MMO to be compared too.

 

The only way this game will improve is feedback from the community. I'm sick and tired of every time someone criticizes this game, there are a flurry of posts by fanboys such as:

 

"This is perfect! BW is going to herald in the second coming of Jesus and can do no harm! Go back to WoW. How dare you say something that could improve this game!"

 

+1 agree.

[Khemizt]

Don't forget the terrible moderators (aka polite police) that will warn you anytime someone is offended by what you say even if taken out of context. This game has by far the most absurd forum moderation I have ever seen in my life.

[Inixus]

The game is very young. Give it time.

 

but but but, the world is gonne end this year man....we dont have time.

[navarh]

The game is very young. Give it time.

like seven years? yup?

[apnixx]

Oh yes it did. WoW didn't have instance PVP (BG) at launch. But there was PLENTY world PVP going on. Even the carebear servers had world pvp going on. Tarren Mills/Southshore was infamous. Not to mention Taranis, WPL, The Barrens, Ashenvale, STV. Hell I remember installing my first mod, a KOS (kill on sight) list. On PVP servers, it was "red means dead". I still have fun memoires of trying to sneak past the war raging outside of MC. And even after the first expansion - the fights outside of kara were epic.

 

And when instance pvp (BG) was released it was fun. At first. I suppose you don't remember the weekend long AV fights? Thos were amazingly fun. Everyone was a wreck after that fight. I remember going to sleep at 3am, waking at 9am and the fight was STILL going on. All of this encouraged a strong community. Everyone knew everyone.

 

But then cross realms BG's, instances, raids, name changes - all that hit and killed the community and world pvp. Running BG now, (in WoW) is like playing COD. And right now, you can be the biggest a** and just change your name. That's why WoW is a joke now.

 

But let me be clear, this game can not compare to WoW even was it was released in 2004. Despite have tons of cash and time, BW dropped the ball big time. This is a single player game with other people.

 

Spoken like someone who picked WOW up a month after release, when wow was released the only way to pvp was to duel or be on a pvp server, there were no battlegrounds what so ever. They were quick to add it after player feedback.

[Lethality]

Spoken like someone who picked WOW up a month after release, when wow was released the only way to pvp was to duel or be on a pvp server, there were no battlegrounds what so ever. They were quick to add it after player feedback.

 

Spoken like someone who NEVER played WoW.

[Progue]

I don't have the time or desire to comb through each of these things one by one, but here is a general response.

 

Reasons why half of the stuff OP suggested won't work in SWTOR:

 

* Each game is unique if only for the fact that it has its own universe and its own design philosophy. Creating clones of previous games has never been (nor should it ever be) BW's intention.

 

* SWTOR's design calls for a more intimate, smaller-scale experience. This means that things like flying vehicles, huge PvP or PVE missions, and similar offerings would only detract from that experience. BW wanted to focus more on the individuals and small groups, not the crowd. How many times have we heard quotes on this forum from the devs saying a million players beating up on one mob is not epic?

 

* Blizzard did a good job learning how to make WoW fun and engaging (and it took time). But a lot of what worked in WoW probably won't work in SWTOR. I'm not saying the game doesn't lack in certain areas. All I'm saying is that BW will have to learn how to improve SWTOR in its own way.

[cagthehack]

 

But yeah, I remember the week long initial battleground when AV opened. Followed by the instanced PvP push. And the endless, meaningless grind that showed time played was greater than skill. And going from knowing pretty much everyone you saw in a PvP match, to only knowing the people who you queue with.

 

 

And that's what killing WoW. I know Blizard is trying to bring back the "realm" community. But it's gone forever now. And now it's jsut a giant arcade style MMO. Sad really.

 

Now this game..no server forums, no guild management of any kind besides a green chat, no LFG tool - jesus you can't even save a friends name that isn't online, add a terrible market - and, well this game is VERY anti realm community.

[cagthehack]

Spoken like someone who picked WOW up a month after release, when wow was released the only way to pvp was to duel or be on a pvp server, there were no battlegrounds what so ever. They were quick to add it after player feedback.

 

You still wrong. On carebear servers, all you had to do was unflag. And many did. They still had the huge Hillsbrad fights. Every night. A friend of mins use to play on an RP server. And every night Hillbrad erupted.

 

In this game I haven't seen on bit of world pvp (and I'm on a pvp server).