Developer Blog: Busting Bugs and Fixing Exploits

[Proto]

PS: Go hire some of the Trion developers. I'd really like to see what they could do with some money. They fix things. The current method of "fixing" things is not working out for your company so far.

 

lol man so true. I just went back to Rift and totally amazed at what they're doing with that game since release.

[JackSmoke]

posts like this are also useless from a management standpoint as well. Here is a funny little thing about managing developers. There is a point where adding developers to a project actually makes the project take longer. This is the reason developers work in small groups. Yes some of those groups are working on bugs. Chances are a lot of developers are working on bugs, but at the same time many are working on new content. This is how developing things works. Heck, for fixing a section of code the chances are fairly high that unless it is a complete re-implementation there is a maximum of two people working to fix the bug. You can't really have 10 people looking for the same bugged lines in the same section of code. That is inefficient and wastes the time of 9 people. After the first person finds and fixes the problem the other 9 people have done nothing but waste time they could have spent on fixing other defects. Yet again a re-implementation can have a larger group. A group of about 6-8 developers for a complete re-implementation defect fix is likely. Also the chances are high that each feature or section of the code has it's own little team built just for it. This is the best way to do things because then when an issue arises the 9 people familiar with that feature or section of code that is now bugged know exactly where to look to get things done quickly. Tossing more people into that group on the development end is basically useless.

 

TL;DR: go back and read it.

 

P.S. sorry for the terrible grammar I'm trying to write this post quickly while at work.

 

I read it, yet I don't feel like I should answer to it. You could've at least taken some time to put a few paragraphs in there.

 

I'm a software, not game, programmer myself and tutor at university, yet I felt "trolled" by the first few sentences.

The rest is pretty accurate, I give you that.

 

Still, giving them any idea on what's wrong is help in my book. Especialy when you read the blog entry about how every report helps.

[Jooji]

Well, I'm sure you're not the only one who didn't have a clue how development works.

 

Seriously, this blog post was boring, but not because it failed to stroke the complainers the way they wanted it to. It's boring because he just described how 80% of all large software development occurs. As other posters have noted, this is pretty much a carbon copy of my development process, and I don't work for a game company. So I read it and just think to myself: "Yeah, okay... so you're saying you work just like everyone else does. I kinda assumed that."

 

The reason this blog post was needed was because the vast majority of gamers are utterly --and occasionally embarrassingly-- clueless about how their games are actually made and maintained. Unfortunately, while its informative, it's going to make people upset (like the above poster) because it doesn't fit their naive expectations and just ends up sounding like someone saying its harder than they "know" it is.

 

If you think that this isn't the same process that Microsoft or Oracle or Blizzard or any other large development house works then you just don't understand the industry well enough to really join in on a serious discussion.

 

Here's what I understand.

 

Bioware takes 5+ weeks to fix simple bugs, exploits, and game balance.

 

Blizzard doesn't.

 

Anyone who isn't a Star Wars fanatic or Bioware fanboy will be off this game before it's been out for 3 months if they keep this pace.

 

That post is exactly what I said it was, a giant EXCUSE.

 

If my team made the foundation of a house off-level and it caused the rest of the house to be built off-dimension do you think I can release a blog making excuses to fix the mistakes I made?

 

Nope, I'd probably get fired.

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Man, I wish I was Bioware and could use them to make up for my shortcomings. Guess I picked the wrong field of work.

[Malastare]

So if it isn't BW's fault whose fault is it?

 

Your failure here is the old American Way[tm] of trying to blame someone else when you're unhappy with something.

 

They've fixed nothing.

 

Now you're not even trying to be honest. They fixed the majority of the activation delay (yes, you're foolish if you think they didn't fix anything because some issues still exist). They improved the display of usable abilities. They fixed the Kira bug.

 

Shoot, the group I work for has built a house in 5 weeks. You're telling me they can't fix some code in 5 weeks?

 

Yes.

 

Not only am I telling you that they couldn't fix some code in 5 weeks, I'm saying they wouldn't even have a clue where to start and if they even managed to figure out where the problem was, they would probably botch it far worse than it already was. I'd go so far as to say that I'd be surprised if your team of builders could even figure out how to commit the change to source control in five weeks. And I'm nearly certain they wouldn't even be able to create a single build, whether they changed anything or not.

 

Not that this should be insulting. I can't build houses. The difference between you and me is that I recognize that, while you fail to understand just how little you understand about software development.

 

This game should have "WoW" responsiveness. If you don't know what I'm talking about go play the demo. This game feels so clunky.

 

1) ability delay

 

...is mostly fixed.

 

2) jumping slows momentum

 

As it should.

 

3) overall character movement is sluggish

 

In that it isn't ridiculously unrealistic? You want to be able to sprint faster than the fastest human ever? Or is your complaint here: "overall character movement isn't like that other game I like".

 

4) lots of graphics lag(I run WoW high settings perfect, this game low settings and my comp struggles)

 

That's because WoW is an old game with mediocre graphics and your comp probably has a weak CPU. Feel free to post specs for comparison.

 

I'm not even going to mention the lack of combat log,

 

Don't want.

 

mods,

 

Don't want.

 

UI,

 

Assuming you mean "scalable" UI or "customizable" UI.

 

I'm not really bothered by the UI, but I'd welcome improvements. This is mostly addressed in upcoming fixes, which you can already see demos of.

 

You know... those fixes you say they never do.

 

macros,

 

Don't want.

 

dual spec

 

Don't want.

 

Perhaps you should at least acknowledge that your "flaws" are just your "opinions" and are not shared by everyone. I'll acknowledge them as issues once you show me any evidence that the majority of players want them.

[Jooji]

Your failure here is the old American Way[tm] of trying to blame someone else when you're unhappy with something.

 

 

 

Now you're not even trying to be honest. They fixed the majority of the activation delay (yes, you're foolish if you think they didn't fix anything because some issues still exist). They improved the display of usable abilities. They fixed the Kira bug.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

Not only am I telling you that they couldn't fix some code in 5 weeks, I'm saying they wouldn't even have a clue where to start and if they even managed to figure out where the problem was, they would probably botch it far worse than it already was. I'd go so far as to say that I'd be surprised if your team of builders could even figure out how to commit the change to source control in five weeks. And I'm nearly certain they wouldn't even be able to create a single build, whether they changed anything or not.

 

Not that this should be insulting. I can't build houses. The difference between you and me is that I recognize that, while you fail to understand just how little you understand about software development.

 

 

 

...is mostly fixed.

 

 

 

As it should.

 

 

 

In that it isn't ridiculously unrealistic? You want to be able to sprint faster than the fastest human ever? Or is your complaint here: "overall character movement isn't like that other game I like".

 

 

 

That's because WoW is an old game with mediocre graphics and your comp probably has a weak CPU. Feel free to post specs for comparison.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

 

 

Assuming you mean "scalable" UI or "customizable" UI.

 

I'm not really bothered by the UI, but I'd welcome improvements. This is mostly addressed in upcoming fixes, which you can already see demos of.

 

You know... those fixes you say they never do.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

Perhaps you should at least acknowledge that your "flaws" are just your "opinions" and are not shared by everyone. I'll acknowledge them as issues once you show me any evidence that the majority of players want them.

 

I hate when Bioware fanboys post.

 

Why would anyone be against logs, dual spec, macros, etc?

[Berkhof]

Here is a fun drinking game, take a shot every time you read the word "bug" in that blog, heh.

[Liliaceae]

While I have enjoyed many of the bug fixes I don't think some of them have gone far enough like PVP, the new bracket for level 50's was sorely needed but even still, a lvl 49 with all their armor and talents EASILY kills level 10's with just a few hits. At this stage in the game at the very least needs to have a bracket split down the middle, but hopefully it's split up a bit more.

[Lordgeneral]

I hate when Bioware fanboys post.

 

Why would anyone be against logs, dual spec, macros, etc?

 

That isn't 'fanboyism' he's telling you where you are demanding stuff that 'wow' had because you literally want 95% of this game to be the same it seems. All he was doing is pointing out your flaws in your post, which any person without a huge forum ego could willingly, man up and admit where they go wrong, some people never learn.

 

Also UI is coming, perhaps you should look at the future content vid.

[SilentProphet]

Basicly this game was a rushed job coz you wanted big sales for christmas and now WE PAYING CUSTUMERS PAY FOR YOUR GREED even more

[Ycoga]

So nice to read a post by someone who truly understands a good SDLC (OP).

 

I really wish 'proper' QA was as valued where I work!

[ManOSteal]

I hate when Bioware fanboys post.

 

Why would anyone be against logs, dual spec, macros, etc?

 

because jooji those things put an intensity into the game that is un-needed

 

logs mean people are more interested in numbers than they are in fun.

 

dual spec has a whole host of issues. This one I'm personally less against but I understand that it often results in a lot of L2P issues with people that favor one spec over another but then have to play a different one just to get into a raid even if they don't have the proper gear or practice for a particular spec.

 

Macros are for people that can't manage all of the abilities their character has. With macros I could make my marauder a 1 button kill machine. This is neither fun nor skillful, everything gets boring if all you have to do is hit 1 button to win.

 

Mods im a little split on. Some mods for UI are cool but then again they are adding their own UI mods. However in the grand scheme of things mods usually end up being required to complete raids.

 

 

Basically a lot of the things you wish to add from that other game are things some people don't want because overall it removes the fun from the game. When all your doing is worrying about numbers and only have to push one button to win what is the point of playing?

Edited February 1, 2012 by ManOSteal

[Lordgeneral]

Basicly this game was a rushed job coz you wanted big sales for christmas and now WE PAYING CUSTUMERS PAY FOR YOUR GREED even more

 

1) Customers not custumers

 

2) No, we pay so that they can support the game which they are doing, even if it does not seem like that in your world of bunnies and rainbows that you live in.

 

3) Don't pay if you don't like the game, simples, battlefield, cod? wow... there are alternatives.

 

3) 3+ years in development, hardly 'rushed (side note they work for EA...hint)

 

4) * face palm* lookup coding please!

 

5)Fallout new Vegas wasn't brought out for xmas but it was bug city, so no it wasn't just brought out for xmas. (although the xmas season is a wise time to bring out since people are actually going to be spending money on new games for people etc, good marketing decision)

 

6) You have no idea do you?

[exzavier]

Your failure here is the old American Way[tm] of trying to blame someone else when you're unhappy with something.

 

 

 

Now you're not even trying to be honest. They fixed the majority of the activation delay (yes, you're foolish if you think they didn't fix anything because some issues still exist). They improved the display of usable abilities. They fixed the Kira bug.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

Not only am I telling you that they couldn't fix some code in 5 weeks, I'm saying they wouldn't even have a clue where to start and if they even managed to figure out where the problem was, they would probably botch it far worse than it already was. I'd go so far as to say that I'd be surprised if your team of builders could even figure out how to commit the change to source control in five weeks. And I'm nearly certain they wouldn't even be able to create a single build, whether they changed anything or not.

 

Not that this should be insulting. I can't build houses. The difference between you and me is that I recognize that, while you fail to understand just how little you understand about software development.

 

 

 

...is mostly fixed.

 

 

 

As it should.

 

 

 

In that it isn't ridiculously unrealistic? You want to be able to sprint faster than the fastest human ever? Or is your complaint here: "overall character movement isn't like that other game I like".

 

 

 

That's because WoW is an old game with mediocre graphics and your comp probably has a weak CPU. Feel free to post specs for comparison.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

 

 

Assuming you mean "scalable" UI or "customizable" UI.

 

I'm not really bothered by the UI, but I'd welcome improvements. This is mostly addressed in upcoming fixes, which you can already see demos of.

 

You know... those fixes you say they never do.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

 

 

Don't want.

 

Perhaps you should at least acknowledge that your "flaws" are just your "opinions" and are not shared by everyone. I'll acknowledge them as issues once you show me any evidence that the majority of players want them.

 

Typical "Care Bear" response, surprised that you made the jump from WoW to SWTOR. Should I ask you the proverbial, "If everyone jumped off a bridge..." question?

 

Sincerely yours,

 

Typical American[tm]

Edited February 1, 2012 by exzavier

[Malastare]

I hate when Bioware fanboys post.

 

I hate when anyone resorts to childish name-calling when presented with someone who has a different point of view.

 

What part makes me a fanboy? The part where I actually understand software development and correct your misconceptions? Maybe the part when I correct you for making demonstrably false statements? Am I a "fanboy" for having knowledge about the topics I'm speaking about?

 

Or is it just the fact that I didn't agree with you?

 

Why would anyone be against logs, dual spec, macros, etc?

 

Logs: Because they are used to power things like "recount" which encourage elitism and sports-based-gaming. In my experience, turning games into number-crunching caters only to a small minority of the community, at the expense of the majority.

 

Dual Spec: Because it is a crutch to help players who don't want to be held accountable for their decisions. They want their cake and still have the ability to eat it. To be honest, I'm only moderately against this, considering this game is built on a WoW-ish combat system that is tailored for PvE and not PvP.

 

Macros: Because they make the game easier for a small percentage of people, who will then complain that the game is too easy and drive development to suit their desires rather than actually caring about the rest of the community that won't care about them. Also, in the process, it makes griefing easier.

[exzavier]

I hate when anyone resorts to childish name-calling when presented with someone who has a different point of view.

 

What part makes me a fanboy? The part where I actually understand software development and correct your misconceptions? Maybe the part when I correct you for making demonstrably false statements? Am I a "fanboy" for having knowledge about the topics I'm speaking about?

 

Or is it just the fact that I didn't agree with you?

 

 

 

Logs: Because they are used to power things like "recount" which encourage elitism and sports-based-gaming. In my experience, turning games into number-crunching caters only to a small minority of the community, at the expense of the majority.

 

I'm sorry, logs are a way of measuring your performance and upping it, you saying it caters to only a small minority of the community is ignorant. Another, and my way of looking at it, is that people who don't want logs suck and they know they suck and logs will expose that. I pay my 15 a month to have fun going through content, it's well within my rights to avoid "scrubs".

 

Dual Spec: Because it is a crutch to help players who don't want to be held accountable for their decisions. They want their cake and still have the ability to eat it. To be honest, I'm only moderately against this, considering this game is built on a WoW-ish combat system that is tailored for PvE and not PvP.

 

One word...... Utility. Dual Spec would not help at all on my faction imbalanced server right?

 

Macros: Because they make the game easier for a small percentage of people, who will then complain that the game is too easy and drive development to suit their desires rather than actually caring about the rest of the community that won't care about them. Also, in the process, it makes griefing easier.

 

I agree on this point, people could always invest in third party hardware to macro as they see fit.

Edited February 1, 2012 by exzavier

[Jooji]

because jooji those things put an intensity into the game that is un-needed

Nobody would be forcing you or anybody else to use dual spec, mods, etc.

 

logs mean people are more interested in numbers than they are in fun.

Some of us love math, numbers, etc. It's also impossible to have "difficult" end-game raiding without logs to see who's pulling their weight and who isn't.

 

dual spec has a whole host of issues. This one I'm personally less against but I understand that it often results in a lot of L2P issues with people that favor one spec over another but then have to play a different one just to get into a raid even if they don't have the proper gear or practice for a particular spec.

Huh? None of that made any sense. Here's what dual spec adds for me. Instead of respecing twice last night because of people coming/going I get to just switch my spec via one button and not waste the time/credits respecing at the trainer. And instead of respecing for PvP I actually get to PvP anytime I want on the right spec.

 

Macros are for people that can't manage all of the abilities their character has. With macros I could make my marauder a 1 button kill machine. This is neither fun nor skillful, everything gets boring if all you have to do is hit 1 button to win.

I'm not talking macros like the one-button steady shot macro hunters used to have. I'm talking macros for chaining off-the-gcd abilities with others. I highly doubt being able to macro your relics/adrenal to abilities is going to somehow turn you or anyone else into a god.

 

Macros add a lot, both for the skilled and unskilled players. Mouse-overs are a requirement for healers to be on the same level as DPS in PvP.

 

Mods im a little split on. Some mods for UI are cool but then again they are adding their own UI mods. However in the grand scheme of things mods usually end up being required to complete raids.

Not really. If Bioware has a team specifically creating mods they deem "ok" then I'm perfectly fine with no 3rd party mods. I'm with you on this, stuff like Arena frames and DBM were ridiculous.

 

 

Basically a lot of the things you wish to add from that other game are things some people don't want because overall it removes the fun from the game. When all your doing is worrying about numbers and only have to push one button to win what is the point of playing?

Nothing you mentioned would lead me to believe this game would be "less fun." Your one button excuse is a huge over-exaggeration.

 

Anyway the whole reason I responded to this thread is because I was disappointed in Bioware. I love this game and see a TON of potential in it, but the blog is just an excuse. I understand it takes time to fix issues and that coding isn't easy or fast, but being more forthright along the way would help a lot. Except for when Bioware releases new patch notes or a blog like this they say nothing in the forums. Or is there a website that tracks their posts that maybe I'm missing kinda like MMO-champ with WoW devs?

[articimink]

After reading half the comments here, I just shake my head wondering if any of the whinners have ever played a new MMO. I have been playing mmo's since they started, and this is the best launch any game I have played has ever had. I enjoyed WOW for 9 years and it was a nightmare from launch, lol, if you got 2 hours of play time in before you fell through a floor somewhere and died or just could not log in for hours, this is the best launch ever and as far as new end game content, what do you expect from a 1 month old game?????? I am very, very happy with the game so far, I have 2 lvl 50's so far and will make more, till they expand past 50 and add more endgame content. I am praying for housing and decorating in the future, maybe some vendors, but gosh people quit barking about trivial stuff. BW has done an excellent job thus far and alot of us are thrilled that the game is running so smoothly, no crashes, etc. Awsome job BW !!!!

[Buzzing]

That article was extremely fascinating. That is the sort of work I do at my job so it is cool to read how the bugs get prioritized and fixed on a massive scale like TOR.

 

Thanks for sharing!

[Jooji]

Logs: Because they are used to power things like "recount" which encourage elitism and sports-based-gaming. In my experience, turning games into number-crunching caters only to a small minority of the community, at the expense of the majority.

Are you joking? My roommate who is a complete casual in WoW still runs recount. He's about as casual as it gets also, he clicks, doesn't use addons(except for the ones I install for him), etc.

 

It's nice having a way to track your progress and improvement. It's virtually impossible to without logs. And how does recount promote elitism? That seems like a stretch. Sure, there's a-holes out there who will link damage in a dungeon and tell everyone they're bad, but that's not the majority of players using logs.

 

Take for instance I was in a flashpoint the other day and we couldn't get past a boss because we kept hitting the dps enrage. With a "recount" it would be easy to pinpoint the problem and maybe bring in someone else while nicely saying "hey you need more gear, or need to learn your rotation better" but instead we were just forced to kick the DPS with the lesser gear. For all we knew he was the one doing more damage.

 

"Recount" adds more information than what you currently have. It helps kill bosses. That doesn't necessarily encourage elitism.

 

Dual Spec: Because it is a crutch to help players who don't want to be held accountable for their decisions. They want their cake and still have the ability to eat it. To be honest, I'm only moderately against this, considering this game is built on a WoW-ish combat system that is tailored for PvE and not PvP.

So using your logic why not force people to permanently be on one spec and never get to change it? If you want people to be held accountable for their decisions the ability to respec even once shouldn't be available.

 

Last night I respec'd when we switched from 16man normal to 8man hard modes because we run 5 healers on 16man, but 2 in each 8man group. Then we had a healer bail on us halfway through the 8man, but we managed to grab a pug dps. That means I had to respec again just to keep the raid going. That isn't justification enough for dual spec?

 

Macros: Because they make the game easier for a small percentage of people, who will then complain that the game is too easy and drive development to suit their desires rather than actually caring about the rest of the community that won't care about them.

How do macros make the game easier for a small percentage of people? If anything macros would be more useful for those with less skill, aka, the majority. Right now I have ~34 binds. With macros that's about 28 binds. It's easier for anyone, regardless of skill, to make use of macros for their benefit and simplicity. Instead of manually hitting that relic or adrenal now you can bind it to an ability. If anything the more hardcore player still wants to hit the relic manually so that macro doesn't help him as much as the casual player.

 

 

Also, in the process, it makes griefing easier.

I have no clue how macros make griefing easier. Could you please elaborate?

[Gleneagle]

No one is ever happy with what they get.... *sigh*

 

LIES! I'm no one and I am happy with what I get.

 

Oh... wait... I guess that still works if I am "No one: Forever happy with what I get".

Edited February 1, 2012 by Gleneagle

[Jeighkub]

Sorry Bioware but you seem like all talk and no action. The bug fixes you post in patch notes usually aren't even fixed (Gharj buggs, ilum issues). None of you actions show you are committed to bug fixes. You release a content patch one month into the game when 50% of you current content was not bug free.

 

Sorry all I see is talk.

[Kanharn]

Even after this post people still cant grasp the concept and how it works.

So funny to read.

[Malastare]

Could you please elaborate?

 

No.

 

Check out the topic of the thread. We've strayed far enough.

 

The only reason I brought them up is because you did, using the lack of these things as evidence of "lack of work" on Bioware's part. Obviously, these things aren't as cut and dried as you portrayed them to be, and the contention seen in just one page of discussion shows how little consensus there is. Not including them isn't a flaw. I'd go so far as to say that it's good design to leave them out until you know what your community actually wants from them.

 

Regardless, the rest of your point remains just as wrong and naive as it ever was. The topic of this thread is software development process and the purpose of my posts was to correct your obvious lack of understanding on the issue, provide other readers with a counter-point to your opinions, and corroborate the blog post as an actual software developer, instead of many other people posting here who have absolutely zero knowledge of the subject.

[Kanharn]

Sorry Bioware but you seem like all talk and no action. The bug fixes you post in patch notes usually aren't even fixed (Gharj buggs, ilum issues). None of you actions show you are committed to bug fixes. You release a content patch one month into the game when 50% of you current content was not bug free.

 

Sorry all I see is talk.

 

Guess you didn't read the article or you would know there is a separate team for content and bugs.

 

All I see is one more forum Emo crying.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Kanharn

[Kanharn]

No.

 

Check out the topic of the thread. We've strayed far enough.

 

The only reason I brought them up is because you did, using the lack of these things as evidence of "lack of work" on Bioware's part. Obviously, these things aren't as cut and dried as you portrayed them to be, and the contention seen in just one page of discussion shows how little consensus there is. Not including them isn't a flaw. I'd go so far as to say that it's good design to leave them out until you know what your community actually wants from them.

 

Regardless, the rest of your point remains just as wrong and naive as it ever was. The topic of this thread is software development process and the purpose of my posts was to correct your obvious lack of understanding on the issue, provide other readers with a counter-point to your opinions, and corroborate the blog post as an actual software developer, instead of many other people posting here who have absolutely zero knowledge of the subject.

 

Agreed.