This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Frostvein]

Want all you want, but fact of the matter is that the gaming experience is still enjoyable without them.

 

To you.

 

I frequently get aggravated at the lack of macros available in game and the overall design of the UI, and this is just during the leveling process. I imagine raids are much much worse.

[monkgryphon]

To you.

 

I frequently get aggravated at the lack of macros available in game and the overall design of the UI, and this is just during the leveling process. I imagine raids are much much worse.

 

I wont disagree with that. However, this might not be the game for you then.

Edited March 5, 2012 by monkgryphon

[Frostvein]

I wont disagree with that. However, this might not be the game for you then.

 

I don't understand this mantra, especially considering they are already making the UI more customizable in 1.2. Further, given this -

 

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.241168100/categoryId.43736600

 

and this -

 

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.241167600/categoryId.43736600

 

they are already cool with Macros. Its just a matter of time before they are accessible in game.

 

I just wish they had these features in at launch so that this debate would have ended before it began.

[InfinitusOdium]

Mods and Macros are terrible. People use them to make the game easier (Boss Mods, AH mods, Quest mods).

 

Why would they allow them?

 

WoW allowed mods because they didn't have as many people as Bioware does when WoW was launched.

 

I fully believe that Bioware will try to make everything themselves and keep it in house and I fully support that.

[TheNdoki]

Overall both sides seem to agree on one thing:

 

You may want them, but you don't NEED them.

 

Want all you want, but fact of the matter is that the gaming experience is still enjoyable without them.

Games are enjoyable for people because they get what they want. Nobody plays a game they don't want to play, and at the end of the day if nobody wants a game it doesn't sell.

 

I could follow your argument and say that HD graphics, special animations, character customization, voice acting, multiple classes, or prettymuch anything else isn't NEEDED either, but in the end that's what people like, and that's what games are about.

 

I don't get why so many people don't understand that. Yes, addons and macros may be a personal preference, but THAT'S THE POINT OF GAMES.

 

 

In the end of all things, if there were free reign of mods, then you might as well start selling the game with these mods, because the new players aren't going to be able to join guilds or groups without having them beforehand. They create standards that aren't really needed.

 

So now you're using assumptions and generalizations about the entire community to support your argument? Hate to break it to you but not only is that improbably, it's false. There are plenty of guilds that allow members to join that don't use certain, or any addons so that point is moot.

 

Also, I guess you just don't bother reading people's signatures huh? That point has already been addressed.

 

 

I wont disagree with that. However, this might not be the game for you then.

 

The basics of marketing is if you want your product to sell it has to appeal to as many people as possible. Following your thought process bioware is just limiting their player base, and profits.

 

And besides, if they DO allow addons then you can just stop playing because it might not be the game for you, right? Guess it works both ways... ignoring the fact that those who don't like addons can just play without them and still be happy.

 

WoW allowed mods because they didn't have as many people as Bioware does when WoW was launched.

 

Wow allowed mods because they wanted their game to be more dynamic, more fun, and appeal to more players.

 

And just because TOR (I'm assuming you made a typo) had more people subscribe at launch does not mean it is successful. Go through the forums and see just how many people have already cancelled due to lack of content, bugs/glitches, clunky UI's, difficulty accessing/tracking information in-game, or boredom. All things that could be solved with addons. Go figure.

Edited March 6, 2012 by TheNdoki

[Darnu]

I hope all the people who say stuff like "I want this kind of add-on, but not this one" realize they're asking for the impossible.

 

Either Bioware provides an API or they don't. If there's an API, add-on writers get to do anything the API allows. There's no "you can write an add-on like this one, but not like this other one." That's not how they work.

 

Actually, it is. If a functionality in the API is not provided then an add-on can't do it. To use a third-party program which could would be just that - a third party program. Not a piece of coding which is bound by functionality provided which is what an addon is.

 

Also, I've never ever had a key-logger or anything like that from an addon but my anti-spyware, noscript and antivirus have picked up and blocked plenty from fansites. Even just clicking on the "next" button on images which barely counts as a link. Happened yet again tonight on a site I never, ever thought it would.

[Darnu]

Mods and Macros are terrible. People use them to make the game easier (Boss Mods, AH mods, Quest mods).

 

Why would they allow them?

 

WoW allowed mods because they didn't have as many people as Bioware does when WoW was launched.

 

I fully believe that Bioware will try to make everything themselves and keep it in house and I fully support that.

 

 

So why did they make the default what it is instead of looking at almost every single raider's UI and go for that instead? It's not like it's hard to find a lot of vids where you can see a UI countless numbers of people choose so why not try to copy something a lot of people seem to like? Why go a type most people hate or simply find annoying or too limiting to be easy, fun and enjoyable? And OK I got it now. By your reasoning anything which reduces the level of people's annoyance is bad for the game. Got it.

 

So many people seem opposed to addons because it seems to come down to the "people would become clickers" argument. Most people don't click, and for those who do, GCD makes it viable, just not the best choice. At least more action bars which are accessible more quickly could make these clickers at least able to be depended on to use an ability, even if performance is reduced.

[TheSkate]

Well, thanks to the guild summit, we know that TOR is not going to have a moddable API for the foreseeable future meaning there will not be third party addons for the foreseeable future. The exact words of the developer were "that is something we would like to see sometime in the future."

 

So... please don't hold your breath waiting for mods. You may pass out.

[Blackwaternvy]

Mods and Macros are terrible. People use them to make the game easier (Boss Mods, AH mods, Quest mods).

 

Why would they allow them?

 

WoW allowed mods because they didn't have as many people as Bioware does when WoW was launched.

 

I fully believe that Bioware will try to make everything themselves and keep it in house and I fully support that.

 

 

YAY MOAR WOW COMPARISONS. yawn

 

Agree with most of the others. IF YOU DONT LIKE THEM DONT USE THEM.

Using addons is a PERSONAL CHOICE that shouldn't be decided by anyone but the user.

 

Allowing them will also launch this game into a positive direction allowing user created content for the game. User generated content is always a bonus in any business model.

[drmcnasty]

Mods and Macros are terrible. People use them to make the game easier (Boss Mods, AH mods, Quest mods).

 

Why would they allow them?

 

WoW allowed mods because they didn't have as many people as Bioware does when WoW was launched.

 

I fully believe that Bioware will try to make everything themselves and keep it in house and I fully support that.

 

 

Addon support wasn't launched to get more players, it was launched so players could customize the UI to their own liking and stop complaining. Get your facts straight.

Edited March 7, 2012 by drmcnasty

[Showania]

Honestly, all I want is a HUD....it would help me perform better as a tank and keep my eyes watching where I need to watch instead of looking down all the time for procs and buffs/debuffs which are important for me to keep up.

 

And a health plate addon, omg....health plates and finding out WHICH mob isn't attacking me to taunt it is like /drool....wtb? Even a target of target option in the regular UI would be nice!

[DJunior]

I don't understand this mantra, especially considering they are already making the UI more customizable in 1.2. Further, given this -

 

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.241168100/categoryId.43736600

 

and this -

 

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.241167600/categoryId.43736600

 

they are already cool with Macros. Its just a matter of time before they are accessible in game.

 

I just wish they had these features in at launch so that this debate would have ended before it began.

 

Yep, they're just afraid that in-game macro capabilities would hurt the sales of their overpriced SWTOR peripherals. Addons and mods would be nice as well, but I don't really care too much about 'em. They're usually more cosmetic. Macros though, they can save of all of us from arthritis at an early age. This lack of macros is currently the one main thing that will chase me to another MMO. Why should only those who blow a ridiculous amount of money on a mouse and keyboard have these capabilities and/or an unfair advantage.

[NeonHippy]

Im sorry if this has been said already.

 

 

 

But cast aside smoke and mirrors .. the developers dont want any addons analysing there mathmatical equations on damage and stats etc because theydont want you judging it.

...they are gathering data first to make adjustments if needed, so 10 thousand threads dont appear about people whining that one class is overpowered etc...seriously

 

Alternatiely - The game atm is clearly not concerned about elists who get woodies from big damage counts.

I agree that dmg counts and macro's enhance possible play styles but it would give a seriously unfair advantage to experienced MMO players. This game is directed at an already solid fan base who for the fair part only started playing an MMO because its 'Star wars' and the developers dont want to ruin the experience for them by allowing elitist jerks to filter them into a numbers game.

 

The only addon really needed atm is a threat meter

[TheNdoki]

I agree that dmg counts and macro's enhance possible play styles but it would give a seriously unfair advantage to experienced MMO players.

 

I like how everyone keeps using the "unfair advantage" argument. Advantage to what? Since when do people who don't care about damage meters (casuals) still work to become the best? As far as I'm concerned the gaming world is made up of two groups, the ones who play for fun, and the ones who play to be the best. If the latter has tools to help them it's not affecting the casual group. Blocking addons is only trying to force the 'hardcore' group to play at the 'casual' level, and that will never happen no matter how much you try to limit the game. It's been happening since Atari, it won't stop now because some MMO doesn't have addons.

Edited March 10, 2012 by TheNdoki

[Darnu]

Love how so many people who are against the meters always say they've looked at their stats at the end of a wz like that isn't a meter

 

But cast aside smoke and mirrors .. the developers dont want any addons analysing there mathmatical equations on damage and stats etc because theydont want you judging it.

...they are gathering data first to make adjustments if needed, so 10 thousand threads dont appear about people whining that one class is overpowered etc...seriously

 

Alternatiely - The game atm is clearly not concerned about elists who get woodies from big damage counts.

I agree that dmg counts and macro's enhance possible play styles but it would give a seriously unfair advantage to experienced MMO players. This game is directed at an already solid fan base who for the fair part only started playing an MMO because its 'Star wars' and the developers dont want to ruin the experience for them by allowing elitist jerks to filter them into a numbers game.

 

K the damage/stats etc? Should have been sorted out in beta. That's what they're there for. Your second idea? That's what I was thinking this game has been leaning towards. I love star wars but I'm happy watching the movies. If I'm going to play an MMO I want it to be a real game. At the moment bad/new players have very little guidance to improve and there seems to be a real agenda from more experienced players loudly opposing macros/addons for one reason only: to block bad/new/mediocre players from improving and having the tools available to get better and let them know in the first place if they're doing something wrong. But this makes me think again - there is no interest in doing this because the developers don't want this to be seen as marketable to a gaming community. I've been wondering whether or not to cancel my sub in the near future or keep paying and check in every now and then to see if it's been fixed. Thankyou for helping me decide which path to choose.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Darnu

[Saphyriel]

Firstly there are 2 types of addons IMO.

 

One type is because the game interface is lacking or somebody has a better idea how to do it.

 

The second type is the lame addons, those for people who want the game to play itself or who get into stupid things such as "big dps" I despise that kind of addon, whenever I was the one leading a raid I forbade posting those or talking about those, they are very detrimental to gameplay and community. The syndrome of the "small member" makes player go reckles just to say "ooo I topped the charts" then you get a bunch of idiots who wont use half their skills and have an itchy trigger finger issue.

 

That said. I think that there are some things that Bioware themselves could fix, when people talk about "give us addons" is to give the ability to do them, which I think SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

 

Why? Because YOU are supposed to play the game, not the game to play itself.

 

Yes I miss certain things like a threat indicator, why? Because sometimes specially with ranged enemies is hard to know if they are on me or on others on some circunstances. I do miss the ability to organize the UI better and resize it and I do miss the ability to put the flytext on different paths and positions. And I do miss the ability to press a skill and target the closest target to use it.

 

BUT....Id rather deal with these little issues and try get used to it than to open a whole pandora's box of parsing combat log and start having the same idiocy that started to ran over wow where it stopped being a game and started to be a profession to some losers. The whole "manhood comparision" on a pixelated version was more annoying than the faulty map system on SWTOR.

 

The new WoW interface incorporated the necessary addons IMO, I think also a good way is Bioware could have a contest for game fix ideas, designs etc. But please DONT OPEN THAT BOX.

 

I got sick and tired of people who couldnt do anything less the addon told them to breathe or blink and oooo they were highest dps on meters >.> but couldnt do teamwork to save their souls.

 

WoW became a game for kids and teens, the playerbase got so annoying that most the old players left or became refugees in their guilds, RP griefing was strong... on rp servers... yes...

 

This game is good for the gamer who is INTO the story, INTO the SW universe, its NOT friendly to power levelers , power level services and not that great for credit farmers. Is friendly for Roleplayers who lost their home once WoW gone to the "l33t kids"

 

SW has its own niche, one that only SW is actually mining on , SW shouldnt be WoW or Rift or Aion or Terra or Eve, SW should keep being SW.

 

NO nerf bats, NO listening to QQ of pvpers and ruining everyone elses gameplay, Nothing that made WoW into the miserable game it become and the disgusting community that it turned into =S

[Naizgrel]

Do you really need an addon that tells you that you have to move out of fire? Really?

[Squeekr]

Man All I want is an AH addon like Auctioneer. Other than that if you need a scroll over heals you shouldn't be healing and the only macro anyone should need is /chicken.

[Celeste]

I don't want either, to be perfectly honest.

 

I pvp very often and I don't like the thought of it turning into an automated wowfest where people can macro for the win, rather than have to fight you without unfair advantages, this goes for addons too, and given we're getting combat reports I don't see the need for much of anything save what we're getting in 1.2, and the only thing I really want is for the ability to color the UI or change the skin or the like.

 

I don't think we should be making it easier to be lazy.

[Rutrict]

First comes add-ons, than comes bots. Don't tell me that isn't how it happens because you're in denial if you think otherwise. As soon as Bioware allows people to make add-ons for this game it allows botters to find a way to create a bot that utilizes add-ons to make their bot more efficient.

 

Secondly I have been playing MMOs for over 15 years, FFXI never had add-ons and people ran end-game just fine. When I got to WoW I felt like my hand was being held through that entire game. I got a DK to 85 in 3 days with Invite a Friend. I was full 385 H FL gear within a month. That game is ruined. I don't want THIS game to go down that same path. And Add-ons are just the first step in a series of steps down that path.

 

 

I don't mind sticking it out through all these patches, and I will remain a faithful subscriber because I love Star Wars since I first saw the movies back in 1989... That being said I have a lot of respect for Star Wars. I want this game to continue to blow peoples minds with all the kewl ideas and perks we're already getting... So please, no add-ons.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Rutrict

[TheNdoki]

First comes add-ons, than comes bots.

Actually bots can be made without addons enabled.

 

I got a DK to 85 in 3 days with Invite a Friend. I was full 385 H FL gear within a month. That game is ruined. I don't want THIS game to go down that same path. And Add-ons are just the first step in a series of steps down that path.

Refer a friend didn't have anything to do with addons, but I like that you're using a game feature the company implemented as an argument for third party addons.

 

 

And for the past 3 or 4 posts who keep using the same old "addons play the game for you" argument, it's been done, to death. You could probably read posts earlier last page that already argue that tired point. Seriously.

[Darnu]

I'm a little curious about this 384 heroic firelands gear. I had some 384 gear from normal Ragnaros but the heroic gear was all 391. And for the life of me I don't understand why you were paying more attention to DBM than the raid leader in vent/mumble/TS other than for one move and one move only - to know to start moving for the leap on heroic domo. If you were flying for heroic Alysrazor I could understand wanting some warning so you could land next to the rings, but other than that I'm not sure why not. As a dk it wasn't your job to hit the meteors on normal rag. For heroic Baleroc I can't think of one single use DBM had. For Beth'tilac and Shannox all the raid warnings were default and the others were pretty useless.

 

I don't know. Out of the 105 addons I use personally a lot are actually for art, or for making the UI more functional to me personally and be the way I like it (spend years looking at hours a day at a screen and you get a little bored) and most are disabled and only on when I need them, and many are for things which don't exist in this game.

 

But for this game a threat meter is an absolute must as far as I can see. Some groups have tanks holding aggro, others have trigger-happy dps's who seem to have no idea. And the tanks don't seem to realize they've lost the aggro, but when the dps's don't see any reason why they can't pull (yes, I understand there are puller classes in other games) and a fix is so simple I don't understand why it could be considered wrong.

 

I say let Bioware take care of the game. Let players take care of things like UI and features which will never be universally wanted or welcomed or which can be personalized in a million ways yet essentially perform the same thing. They've created a default which is good enough for a lot of people to argue that it's exactly what they wanted and pretty much all they ever want.

 

Edit: Bots are external programs run alongside the game and have nothing to do with addons. Here's one for you: No addons yet and no addon support yet i'm already constantly getting mail from gold-sellers. I thought addon's were to blame?

Edited March 14, 2012 by Darnu

[Rutrict]

Actually bots can be made without addons enabled.

I guess you have more experience with bots than I do. From what I read about them they utilize certain add-ons that identify nodes and gatherer to help the bot not only farm the nodes, but also the path for which they take. At least that's what I read about the farming bots. If need be I could research it again, but honestly it was boring.

 

 

Refer a friend didn't have anything to do with addons, but I like that you're using a game feature the company implemented as an argument for third party addons.

 

If you paid attention to my post it wasn't just about add-ons. It was about the overall ease of WoW. The game itself is so simple a caveman could do it. Add-ons are one of the first things to make the game "easier" for players. IE: Quest Helper, Gatherer... etc. - I'm sorry if you were confused and couldn't link the two. I thought I was pretty clear.

 

And for the past 3 or 4 posts who keep using the same old "addons play the game for you" argument, it's been done, to death. You could probably read posts earlier last page that already argue that tired point. Seriously.

 

You could come up with viable alternatives to needing add-ons. Like stop being an elitest jerk? Seriously.

[MrNobodyWTB]

I would love to see some community driven mod capability. Please!

[Rutrict]

I'm a little curious about this 384 heroic firelands gear. I had some 384 gear from normal Ragnaros but the heroic gear was all 391. And for the life of me I don't understand why you were paying more attention to DBM than the raid leader in vent/mumble/TS other than for one move and one move only - to know to start moving for the leap on heroic domo. If you were flying for heroic Alysrazor I could understand wanting some warning so you could land next to the rings, but other than that I'm not sure why not. As a dk it wasn't your job to hit the meteors on normal rag. For heroic Baleroc I can't think of one single use DBM had. For Beth'tilac and Shannox all the raid warnings were default and the others were pretty useless.

 

Firstly let me apologize about 385, I ment 391 but I simply forgot. I quit after patch 4.3 came out. I found the game highly boring and just didn't care to retain most of the information. I can post SS of my character to prove I had H FL gear if need be.

 

Secondly, the guilds I was in ( being the top 3 on the server I was on, Alliance side ) required you to have certain add-ons, even if you didn't "need" them. I didn't know of any guild that was raiding that didn't require you to have certain add-ons. So getting into a guild ( that could actually raid ) that didn't require add-ons wasn't a choice on the server I was on.

 

I don't know. Out of the 105 addons I use personally a lot are actually for art, or for making the UI more functional to me personally and be the way I like it (spend years looking at hours a day at a screen and you get a little bored) and most are disabled and only on when I need them, and many are for things which don't exist in this game.

 

And I am glad BioWare is coming out with their own means to change the UI to how you want it. Which means we don't need an add-on to do this for us.

 

But for this game a threat meter is an absolute must as far as I can see. Some groups have tanks holding aggro, others have trigger-happy dps's who seem to have no idea. And the tanks don't seem to realize they've lost the aggro, but when the dps's don't see any reason why they can't pull (yes, I understand there are puller classes in other games) and a fix is so simple I don't understand why it could be considered wrong.

 

I'm a tank and I have no problems keeping threat in HM or NM operations. I think the threat meter could be solved with a player knowing how to play their class. If the tank can't see that he's lost aggro I would think a new tank is necessary, or perhaps an educated one.

 

The only places I lose threat, or don't have threat is on trash. And rule of thumb for trash is keeping threat on the heavy hitters of the group, MDPS should more than be capable of taking the damage the weaker trash dishes out. Even when I am the only tank for the raid the leader tells me what ones to taunt and tells the MDPS to pick up the lesser mobs. We've yet to have a problem with this strat.

 

Also, if the above option isn't possible... This game has many classes with a lot of CCs. So... anything that the tank doesn't have threat on could be CCd. If you have people breaking CCs than you have user problems. That's nothing an add-on would fix. Ever.

 

I say let Bioware take care of the game. Let players take care of things like UI and features which will never be universally wanted or welcomed or which can be personalized in a million ways yet essentially perform the same thing. They've created a default which is good enough for a lot of people to argue that it's exactly what they wanted and pretty much all they ever want.

 

I agree with the above part to a point. That point is up to the point where add-ons become wanted and or necessary. If we, the players, don't like something about the game than we come here and voice our opinions. If you want to have some form of dps meters than add-ons are not the means. Having BioWare implement their OWN dps meter would be a more viable method. You want a DBM, then tell BioWare and if it's a big enough issue let them come out with their version of it. I'm not against what add-ons do for us, I am against the need for a 3rd party program, which add-ons are.

 

Edit: Bots are external programs run alongside the game and have nothing to do with addons. Here's one for you: No addons yet and no addon support yet i'm already constantly getting mail from gold-sellers. I thought addon's were to blame?

 

Constantly? I've gotten 4 mails from credit-selllers * seeing as there is no gold in this game *. And since credit is so easily made in this game they aren't in full force here. There's no demand for people wanting credits, otherwise they would be. It's called fishing. They're sending that mail out to see if they get people buying credits. If they notice people are actually buying credits than they will start to farm credits to sell it. Simply don't buy credits and they will go away. I never linked add-ons to be the blame for gold-sellers. Nor did I mention them in my post.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Rutrict