This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Zingas]

I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top.

 

Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out.

 

Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros.

 

These should be top priority for the next patch.

[Yvin]

Hello everyone!

 

The previous version of this thread has reached 1,000 posts and we've recreated it for continued discussion.

 

This topic is for the discussion of mods and macros, which also includes UI modifications, damage meters and @mouseover. Please remember that if you do not agree with someone, we expect replies to be constructive without being rude or insulting to fellow community members. Posts should also be on-topic and respectful for everyone and their methods of gameplay.

 

Should someone be breaking the Rules of Conduct, please use the Flag feature to report posts to the Community Team for investigation and do not reply to them. If you feel you simply cannot get along with another community member, please place them on your ignore list.

 

Thank you!

[Manchuwook]

Can the title of the thread be changed to something other than "badly needs mods and macros"? The discussion is more about wanting it than needing it.

[Drake_Hound]

mouseover function yes ..

Since equels key binding anyway .

 

say or yell or raid warning functions yes .

 

Macro that automates game play , making 4 button click in 1 second NO

It doesn´t equel the playground with those who are not gifted in macro functions.

Sorry you want people to play a game , then all should learn to play .

 

Not some freaks who have beter scripting skills then the rest .

But can´t even be bothered to learn the game properly .

[cromartyfive]

I never realized there was so much hate for macros there was. I think people misunderstand what you can actually do with them.

[tdawg_seattle]

I've been healing 8-man operations lately and will estimate that I switch targets about once every 4 seconds (a lot more during combat, a lot less out of combat). This amounts to over 2500 unnecessary clicks in a 3-hour raid.

 

I've been healing in MMOs for years and now that I'm getting a little older, my fingers actually hurt after one of these sessions. I have to click a mouse for my job and notice the next day if I do a lot of swtor healing the night before.

 

I try not to worry or think about the effect all my MMO playing might have on the long-term health of my fingers, but cutting out 2500+ clicks a night can only help.

[MrOrionQuest]

Addons: Not really needed. We're getting a combat log and the ability to change up our UI, that's all we really need honestly.

 

Macros: On the fence. We would need to severely limit what they can do. A savvy macro user can do many things with just a few lines of code. While I know many players can't or won't do such things, it still doesn't detract what a knowledgeable person is capable of. Some people claim macros don't play the game for you, but I'd wager they haven't seen what macros enable those who know what they're doing.

(I hate using it as a reference, but many/most of us know how the system works there) WoW has a very sloppy macro system that does indeed allow people, who know how to write macros at a much higher level than most players, almost bot the game for them. The only thing these players are actually doing, is making sure they target the right mobs and right players, almost everything else is done by using a macro.

[Bomyne]

It's disgraceful at the level of UI customization in this game. Addons should be added to the game, but more importantly, macros need to be added to the game. Even a simplistic game like SWG had macro support.

[Datrogh]

Addons: Not really needed. We're getting a combat log and the ability to change up our UI, that's all we really need honestly.

/signed and double signed for UI modification. Learn a lesson from Rift (the one thing they absolutely did right). There you can mod your UI like a boss without the need for an external mod.

 

Macros: On the fence. We would need to severely limit what they can do. A savvy macro user can do many things with just a few lines of code. While I know many players can't or won't do such things, it still doesn't detract what a knowledgeable person is capable of. Some people claim macros don't play the game for you, but I'd wager they haven't seen what macros enable those who know what they're doing.

(I hate using it as a reference, but many/most of us know how the system works there) WoW has a very sloppy macro system that does indeed allow people, who know how to write macros at a much higher level than most players, almost bot the game for them. The only thing these players are actually doing, is making sure they target the right mobs and right players, almost everything else is done by using a macro.

 

This is not quite right. The jobs macros can do have been severly cut back over the years and the biggest problems that still remain is the combination of macros and some special HARDWARE that can line up macros or that you can program macrolike to do ingame stuff (which, btw, works with SWTOR, too...). As long as you can't do a rotation by hitting a single button, as it is possible in Rift, we are most likely fine.

My main use for macros is to set up one key with 3 different skills that I can activate by holding shift or ctrl before pressing the key. This way I can have 24 skills on 8 buttons which really puts less strain on my hands and makes playing more comfortable. Another use for me is @Focus and @Mouseover, which i mainly use for interrupting the right target without switching to it first and healing.

As long i could use these functions in SWTOR, I'd be very happy.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Datrogh

[AndrewJW]

One of the things I liked most about WoW was that there was the endless ability to edit your HUD due to user generated content. This actually helped the Devs out in the long run, as they could see over time how people liked their HUD setup, and what people really needed. This greatly assisted the games ability to expand, as people did not feel locked into one way of doing things (Healbot anyone).

 

I know that generating an add-on framework at this stage of development is a daunting task, however I feel as tho it will greatly help the lure of this game. I for one crave customization of my gaming interface, and I know that there are a great many people who do. I acknowledge that work is being done, however the ability to have UI scaling as well as interface object placement, is just the tip of the iceberg. In order to make many of the people who play this game, many of them coming from WoW. the ability to create custom interface elements is vital.

Edited February 1, 2012 by AndrewJW

[Elmiond]

Addons: Not really needed. We're getting a combat log and the ability to change up our UI, that's all we really need honestly.

 

Macros: On the fence. We would need to severely limit what they can do. A savvy macro user can do many things with just a few lines of code. While I know many players can't or won't do such things, it still doesn't detract what a knowledgeable person is capable of. Some people claim macros don't play the game for you, but I'd wager they haven't seen what macros enable those who know what they're doing.

(I hate using it as a reference, but many/most of us know how the system works there) WoW has a very sloppy macro system that does indeed allow people, who know how to write macros at a much higher level than most players, almost bot the game for them. The only thing these players are actually doing, is making sure they target the right mobs and right players, almost everything else is done by using a macro.

 

Erm, examples of what you find objectionable is far more useful to the development team than vague assertions of things that really aren't possible.

 

Also, macros really aren't difficult if you take 15 minutes to learn how. Customising your setup (UI and macros both) to work uptimally for the individual (self or other) specifically is what is difficult.

 

Anyway, the decision's been made, help make the system better instead of trying to oppose it based on incorrect facts, and that goes for everyone.

|

V

[Mcfondles]

I really hate addons.. ruined wow for me... I just don't get why anyone would want to have to have 5 different mods just to pvp..

 

Leave it up to skill to watch your enemy's casting bar... or your interrupt cooldowns or your procs.. or trinkets.. As it is now it is a level playing field.. Everyone relies on the tools they are given..

 

Learn to watch for enemies casting heals instead of an addon telling you which enemies are healers and which are dps (yes wow had an addon like that in arenas)

 

And no I don't want to have to go install deadly boss mods to raid with my guild.. "Uhoh you don't have the latest version of deadly boss mods.. guess you missed the big red text telling you what to do next..." How about you learn what to do with the tools you are given just like everyone else?

 

*edit* and another thing no one has thought about.. Look at all of the complaints people are giving about lag now... If they were to add mods it would become ten times worse..

Edited February 1, 2012 by Mcfondles

[MrOrionQuest]

Not to flame, but I don't think you are aware what macros are capable of. And, nowhere did any dev state macros were being implemented. I didn't disagree with macros, I clearly remember stating I was on the fence, but we need to limit, very strictly, what exactly we can do with them. I was vague about specific macro use on purpose, I don't want to educate people on how to fluidly run the game without much actual interaction between the user and the game.

[ArchonSilvros]

So is there any chance of getting a petition out to the players, the people actively using and paying for the service, to let them vote on weather or not they think the game would benefit from macros/modding? The forum post here has basically been 4k+ posts of mods are dumb and let you be lazy/mods can allow you to do some fun, useful things without breaking the game if used properly....

 

I think it's probably time for the devs, mods, and players to come together on a consensus of where the game should go from here. Who's up for a vote?

Edited February 1, 2012 by ArchonSilvros

[Journeyer]

The only trick with a vote is that nothing evolutionary happens.

 

Now, I don't claim to know anything of BW's plans, but they do seem to like to mix it up a bit and create new kinds of player experiences that take adjusting to...but always end up worth the effort in the long haul.

 

Imagine that a developer is working on some neat new feature that's totally new and original and fun. Now imagine that the users don't know of these plans to further enhance and deepen the level of combat decision-making, etc. Now, imagine that the players, seeing what exists right now, propose the addition of a tired feature that's been seen and done in every game, as a way to bring this game's controls into line with what they are used to. We vote!

 

Naturally, given what players are used to, and assuming that the game is a non-evolving system, the option to tie up the loose ends with this common feature will win the vote.

 

But if BW commits itself to doing *only* what the players vote on, the game will just become a mush of all the other MMOs. Because those are the ideas that the players are used to and familiar with. Sometimes, the company has to step outside the box and say "trust us, we're going to develop this further than you guys are thinking about right now--wait and see." And for that, you really can't do a vote.

 

Of course, if there's no plans to evolve this game further, then sure! Let's vote!

[Sendrel]

Not to flame, but I don't think you are aware what macros are capable of. And, nowhere did any dev state macros were being implemented. I didn't disagree with macros, I clearly remember stating I was on the fence, but we need to limit, very strictly, what exactly we can do with them. I was vague about specific macro use on purpose, I don't want to educate people on how to fluidly run the game without much actual interaction between the user and the game.

 

Pretty sure no one is asking for automation.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

I think the title of thread is very misleading. At first glance someone might get the impression we actually do need this. This is misleading. The very reason this thread keep's getting bumped by the people like me who say "No we don't stop speaking for the entire community" people that came from wow with training wheel of mods need to learn to seriously let thing's go.

 

Not every game has to be like another game. Blizzard in my honest view is money hungry they allowed add on because as long as they are making their dollar they don't care. However since this game is so new and appeals to both new player's of MMO's and old. We don't want to over complex thing's for them.

 

Imagine running an instance for a new player then they are slapped down because they don't have enough dps or denied entry into a guild because they didn't download heal bot. It's crictal you do not make the same mistake warcraft made and caved into the hardcore players. They did that with CATA and lose 2 million sub's in under a year.

 

It makes player's lazy, it over complex's thing's and from a company's point of view it opens the gate way to new people. Do you truely want to roll the dice and let hardcore a minority group have their way. I think the casual group is to be aimed here and we don't want start down path where we need a spread sheet to understand that we need FIVE or more add on's in order to raid.

 

So in boiling down. No we don't need add on's or marcos. They already said they are building in a custom UI from their end. Their game is fine they spent millions on it and we don't need player's to mess with the files. Would you really want see a bot on auto farm killing tons of creatures over and over for credits.

[Sendrel]

Would you really want see a bot on auto farm killing tons of creatures over and over for credits.

 

Its a good thing addons don't do that.

[DaxRendar]

Still don't need Addons (just some features added to the Game UI itself as BW is able to)

 

Mixed on Macros - generally feel the functionality they add should also be built directly into the UI if BW wants it available (Mouseover Healing/Targeting for instance - much better implemented as a checkbox in Preferences than requiring people to bind all their Heals as macros)

[Nijraw]

This game needs a macro system badly, there are way to many abilities in this game for there not to be a macro system in place to help players consolidate some of there abilities like Medpacks, off the Global Cool down abilities, Text & Emotes, the list goes on.

 

Not having a macro system in this game makes Swtor feel cheap like one of those free to play item shop games, a game of this magnitude should of all ready had one in place, for me this is my number 1 complaint and has caused me to put my account on hold until further notice.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Nijraw

[Krazeh]

Imagine running an instance for a new player then they are slapped down because they don't have enough dps or denied entry into a guild because they didn't download heal bot. It's crictal you do not make the same mistake warcraft made and caved into the hardcore players. They did that with CATA and lose 2 million sub's in under a year.

 

That's strange because i'm pretty much sure that most people claim WoW's drop in subs is due to changing focus from hardcore players to casual players. Don't see many people claiming Cata made the game more hardcore as far as i'm aware.

[Arokel]

I played WoW from launch until a few months after cata came out. That is around 6 years. In all that time I never used a single mod or macro.

 

I did pvp, dungeons, and raids. Never once did I need to take a shortcut.

 

One thing that occurred to me is that this game's lack of mods or macros will force a whole generation of healers to learn how to heal again.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Arokel

[SWGBum]

I support this message.

[Xeonox]

I disagree.. what you call "shortcuts" were a blessing in disguise for some of us. The automatic mail opener for instance for WoW.. that was huge when you sold 250+ items per day. DBM for the win.. and i realize that this is a new game and i still have alot to learn.. but the one thing I hate for sure is the spellbars.. I wish i could move them..

[UBIKZ]

I played WoW from launch until a few months after cata came out. That is around 6 years. In all that time I never used a single mod or macro.

 

I did pvp, dungeons, and raids. Never once did I need to take a shortcut.

 

One thing that occurred to me is that this game's lack of mods or macros will force a whole generation of healers to learn how to heal again.

 

You've obviously never been in a prog raid group. People that say addons are cheats or that they make things easier are people that aren't committed to maximizing their performance. Take meters for instance, meters don't actually make you do any more damage. What they do do is help you develop a good rotation and calculate what stats perform best with your spec/role and how to gear properly. Meters also show very clearly who the newbs are.. so no wonder newbs are afraid of addons (they can't get carried anymore)

 

Look at all the posts on here, most people against addons have never used them, have no clue how to use them, and I can garauntee are total newbs who never even done end game content.

 

It's funny how these ignorant people claim that those who use addons are lazy.. It's clearly those who are too lazy to learn how an addon works who are the real lazy ones. There's nothing lazy about trying to perfect your performance.. Anyone dedicated to being a good player would use every tool at their disposal.

 

My theory on why BW hasn't allowed addons yet is because they haven't balanced the classes the way they need to. Meters would be a very quick indicator on which classes are op. Instead of people whining about having or not having addons, people would be whining about why their class is underpowered. I think that once they've balanced everything so that meters show close enough numbers across the board they'll allow addons.

 

So yeah all you against addons are just newbs who want to be carried, and know that a meter would mean you would be kicked. It's simply about being good at what u do, addons help u maximize performance.. mediocre players can stick with mediocre content cuz ur a liability to ur group and are holding everyone back.